[A17] PokéRim – A Pokémon mod series for RimWorld

[kubolek01]

If I had such thing yesterday. Why I have to pray to RNGesus while having quite a good tech PS:I think downing would make catching impossible,  similar to original. Until it gets up, but remember the Double Down Doom rule!

[kubolek01]

PSPS:Mewtwo isn't OP, just counter it with any Dark type's and watch it going desperate!

[WalkingProblem]

If I had such thing yesterday. Why I have to pray to RNGesus while having quite a good tech PS:I think downing would make catching impossible,  similar to original. Until it gets up, but remember the Double Down Doom rule!

Dun really get what you mean by "if you had such a thing" and "praying while having good tech".... lmao...

It possible catch while down, I just need to make sure the pokeball do not deal high damage. Its just gonna deal as much damage as throwing a mini bowling ball at another person... lol

PSPS:Mewtwo isn't OP, just counter it with any Dark type's and watch it going desperate!

There is no dark type in 1st Generation, which is what I'm focusing on. LOL

[kubolek01]

Downing has 2/3 kill chance on non colony pawns. And most ghosts can use Dark attacks. As well as other.

[Nekokon]

What you suggested doesn't make sense at all. What pokemon game has the "downing would make catching impossible" like you said ? Downing a pokemon isn't the same as killing one. If you think you only "down" pokemons in the game, welcome to the (rim)world.

Also gen 1 has no dark type pokemon as well as dark type move, so Mewtwo WAS op. But seeing it has its story in the original I think it's probably better if players can't get it the normal way (crafting, catching, recruiting...) but only through a chain of request events. Probably 1 request event for each legendary birds "a legendary pokemon was sighted nearby", and after you finished all 3 you can get "sighted Mewtwo event". Main reason for it to be request event is so that you can make the encounter map yourself with specific challenges and time limit, instead of having them attack your fortified based and practically giving themselves out. Players will be able to use them after catching, so they can't be too op.
This will require a new storyteller, but I think you can modify HP Lovecraft storyteller by jercell (with permission) since it uses accumulated system to generate events from small to big instead of throwing event based on current value at that moment.

Sad to hear that this mod will be delayed until after A18 though.

[kubolek01]

What you suggested doesn't make sense at all. What pokemon game has the "downing would make catching impossible" like you said ? Downing a pokemon isn't the same as killing one. If you think you only "down" pokemons in the game, welcome to the (rim)world.

Also gen 1 has no dark type pokemon as well as dark type move, so Mewtwo WAS op. But seeing it has its story in the original I think it's probably better if players can't get it the normal way (crafting, catching, recruiting...) but only through a chain of request events. Probably 1 request event for each legendary birds "a legendary pokemon was sighted nearby", and after you finished all 3 you can get "sighted Mewtwo event". Main reason for it to be request event is so that you can make the encounter map yourself with specific challenges and time limit, instead of having them attack your fortified based and practically giving themselves out. Players will be able to use them after catching, so they can't be too op.
This will require a new storyteller, but I think you can modify HP Lovecraft storyteller by jercell (with permission) since it uses accumulated system to generate events from small to big instead of throwing event based on current value at that moment.

Sad to hear that this mod will be delayed until after A18 though.

Fainting is similar to downing, yea? And then, it would be nice to see a new storyteller. Default became too easy and predictable. Then, we had possibility to meet next generation in parts which came for GBA. So we gonna meet them controlled by STUPID AI
Minor idea:make the dev ID for pawns having a tag, like TBI for TiberiumRim creatures.

[WalkingProblem]

My current idea for MewTwo is that it can only be summoned/crafted with the DNA of ALL Pokemons.

To get the DNA of ALL Pokemon would be ridiculously difficult on its own. Try taming every single vanilla animals in the game. =P

[kubolek01]

My current idea for MewTwo is that it can only be summoned/crafted with the DNA of ALL Pokemons.

To get the DNA of ALL Pokemon would be ridiculously difficult on its own. Try taming every single vanilla animals in the game. =P

Vanilla is just 40 or sth, the hardest is for sure Thrumbo. Maybe I'd send it against that Psychic god? Or Tiberium mutated version for more REKTy job?

[WalkingProblem]

You will need to get all 150 pokemon's DNA (might be slightly lesser, I think Mew is not included in it), including legendary/rare pokemons of the 1st generation.

And many of them is gonna be as difficult to tame as Thrumbo or Jaguar. And making it worse, you need to slaughter the pokemon to get the DNA.... are you willing to slaughter your legendary/rare Pokemons?

lol~

[WalkingProblem]

Not Tamed (tame designated)


Throw Pokeball at Dromedary...


Dromedary is now part of my Tribe (temporarily called Dromedary 2)


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Yes. PokéRim: Pokeball mod is happening.

[Nekokon]

It's amazing to see you working on so many mods at the same time. Keep up the good work man.

Personally I think catching all 150 pokemons to create Mewtwo is a bit too hard and tedious. It would be a very long grind until you can create it, but when you do Mewtwo is practically given out for you (if you create/summon it in your base).
What I mean by giving Mewtwo (and other legendaries) its own story isn't to simply make it hard to acquire, but to make an epic encounter by giving it a pre-generated map (Haplo's MapGenerator might help). There're a few reasons:
 
1. Mixing legendary pokemon events inbetween would help to break the long grind of getting all pokemons into small chunks (just like we had to fight gyms while collecting pokemons, and had to fight team rocket in between gyms). It's a good game design to keep things interesting and objective-focused. At start of course you would want to capture a few useful pokemons for your own colony needs, but afterward there's not much incentive to catch them all. Unlocking legendaries based on number of acquired pokemons (of certain types) is a neat idea, since you don't need a new storyteller this way (~ insanity lance). Still, in order to stay faithful with original Mew should be the only pokemon locked by 151 pokemons achievement, and it should only be a mascot for bragging right with no special power (or maybe x100 nuzzle)

2. The encounter map would serve as the main challenge rather than the legendary pokemon itself, since we can't just make the pokemon op to keep balance in check, and we also wouldn't want to just come close, shoot it a few times and try to catch it like a normal pokemon. 

3. Based on the type of legendary, you can create a specific challenge that requires certain strategy to stir things up, for example, a volcanic map (Biomes+ already got one) with semi permanent flames (custom flamable floor with 1m hp would work) for Moltres which requires bringing a lot of heat protected gear and firefoam (or water pokemon); a huge premade base with lots of small rooms with mechanoid/turret which best tackled by digging through wall (careful not to dig into another trap room) or find/destroy power sources; or hordes of manhunting pokemons for Articuno's map (sorry out of idea). The possibility is endless, and those map won't require too much extra coding.

But anyway it's still a long way until you have to start checking on those shiny sparky birdies. I'm really looking forward to see how you're gonna tackle the ranged pokemons problem. I tried a few things but apparently xml isn't enough to give pet range attack

[WalkingProblem]

It's amazing to see you working on so many mods at the same time. Keep up the good work man.

Personally I think catching all 150 pokemons to create Mewtwo is a bit too hard and tedious. It would be a very long grind until you can create it, but when you do Mewtwo is practically given out for you (if you create/summon it in your base).
What I mean by giving Mewtwo (and other legendaries) its own story isn't to simply make it hard to acquire, but to make an epic encounter by giving it a pre-generated map (Haplo's MapGenerator might help). There're a few reasons:
 
1. Mixing legendary pokemon events inbetween would help to break the long grind of getting all pokemons into small chunks (just like we had to fight gyms while collecting pokemons, and had to fight team rocket in between gyms). It's a good game design to keep things interesting and objective-focused. At start of course you would want to capture a few useful pokemons for your own colony needs, but afterward there's not much incentive to catch them all. Unlocking legendaries based on number of acquired pokemons (of certain types) is a neat idea, since you don't need a new storyteller this way (~ insanity lance). Still, in order to stay faithful with original Mew should be the only pokemon locked by 151 pokemons achievement, and it should only be a mascot for bragging right with no special power (or maybe x100 nuzzle)

2. The encounter map would serve as the main challenge rather than the legendary pokemon itself, since we can't just make the pokemon op to keep balance in check, and we also wouldn't want to just come close, shoot it a few times and try to catch it like a normal pokemon. 

3. Based on the type of legendary, you can create a specific challenge that requires certain strategy to stir things up, for example, a volcanic map (Biomes+ already got one) with semi permanent flames (custom flamable floor with 1m hp would work) for Moltres which requires bringing a lot of heat protected gear and firefoam (or water pokemon); a huge premade base with lots of small rooms with mechanoid/turret which best tackled by digging through wall (careful not to dig into another trap room) or find/destroy power sources; or hordes of manhunting pokemons for Articuno's map (sorry out of idea). The possibility is endless, and those map won't require too much extra coding.

But anyway it's still a long way until you have to start checking on those shiny sparky birdies. I'm really looking forward to see how you're gonna tackle the ranged pokemons problem. I tried a few things but apparently xml isn't enough to give pet range attack

Yeah I understand what you are getting. The main reason why its not in my game design right now is because I do not have experience working on world map stuff yet. Thus I cannot make major plans based on something I have idea how to do and how it works (I have yet to start on my first proper A17 playthrough)

But yeah, its still a long way to go before I will start working on the pokemon side of the PokeRim mod. Thus we have a lot of time to debate and discuss how should we do this for the benefit of all pokemon fans whom are playing Rimworld.

Thus I want to start on a more 'straightforward' mod, which is the Pokeball. (It should be quite difficult and not too difficult at the same time - since its about making a totally new feature or weapon idea, yet based on "logic", it shouldnt be too difficult)

So luckily, with the high I'm on from launching my Arachnid mod 3.0, I get on with it, and I managed to "crack it" and made it work.

Since the screenshot I posted earlier, I had continue to hack the codes and now it is compatible with the explosion radius. Which means, we can have some pokeball which are more effective due to its bigger "catchment area". For the basic pokemon, you need to hit the creature on the same grid - which from my testing, its ridiculously difficult. Which means that, you need to "down" the animal, before you can "capture it" with the pokeball.

Its 8.30am over in Singapore now, I need to go catch my sleep after an entire night of hacking.

What is next, is to add in the consideration of "wildness" of the animal, to influence the success rate; as well as to make the pokeball, "pick-able-up" again.

The idea I have now is, that you throw the pokeball, your pawn will no longer be holding anymore pokeball. After the pokeball explode, it will be respawned on the location it explode, for you to pick it up again. (thus it will not behave like a grenade, which is unlimited, or like a doomsday rocket, which after one use, its gone forever)

What you guys think?

[Nekokon]

Grenade isn't one use item in vanilla ? I play mostly with CE so I'm not too sure.
If pokeball can be picked up again and again then it kind of defeats the purpose of making player craft more pokeballs. You can just increase the <RangedWeapon_Cooldown> to stop ppl from spamming balls. Leaving them as stackable consumable would be more logical.
I had a look into CE's grenade code, and it uses quite a few classes from CE core so it might not be easy to snip out (you might wanna try asking NoImageAvailable if he can help). Or you can ask Dub if he can share the code to limit equipment usage (like his med kit).

If you want to give pokeball a flat tame rate (offset only by wildness), instead of making them do dmg, add a stackable hediff on target which will instantly kill target after 10 balls or so (no other effect otherwise). Reasons:
- The rate of taming won't change based on current hp, so you can throw balls at pokemon even at full hp. Even balls do dmg, it would be really really hard to accidentally kill pokemons when they're at full hp (we're gonna use them to fight, can't make them die too fast).
- If you increase the dmg from pokeballs to counter, it might get exploited to use against other things like raiders.
- The stackable hediff won't active before 10 stacks, so it's much harder to exploit. Jecrell has an amazing step by step guide on how to add extra effect (Plague in this case, you can use it, modify or make your own) to a pistol here: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33219.0

[WalkingProblem]

Grenade isn't one use item in vanilla ? I play mostly with CE so I'm not too sure.
If pokeball can be picked up again and again then it kind of defeats the purpose of making player craft more pokeballs. You can just increase the <RangedWeapon_Cooldown> to stop ppl from spamming balls. Leaving them as stackable consumable would be more logical.
I had a look into CE's grenade code, and it uses quite a few classes from CE core so it might not be easy to snip out (you might wanna try asking NoImageAvailable if he can help). Or you can ask Dub if he can share the code to limit equipment usage (like his med kit).

If you want to give pokeball a flat tame rate (offset only by wildness), instead of making them do dmg, add a stackable hediff on target which will instantly kill target after 10 balls or so (no other effect otherwise). Reasons:
- The rate of taming won't change based on current hp, so you can throw balls at pokemon even at full hp. Even balls do dmg, it would be really really hard to accidentally kill pokemons when they're at full hp (we're gonna use them to fight, can't make them die too fast).
- If you increase the dmg from pokeballs to counter, it might get exploited to use against other things like raiders.
- The stackable hediff won't active before 10 stacks, so it's much harder to exploit. Jecrell has an amazing step by step guide on how to add extra effect (Plague in this case, you can use it, modify or make your own) to a pistol here: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33219.0

Okay, sorry if I havent explain more details about how the Pokeball I'm working on works.

Grenade in vanilla is extremely slow in aiming, throwing and detonating (my template currently is the EMP grenade)

Thus in my tests, I found there is literally no way you can hit an animal that is not staying still (either down or sleeping)

The reason to make it able to pick up again, is because, the pawn would be defenseless once he throws the pokeball (again, not CE, I know CE can equip stuffs from the bulk). So the balance this aspect of the game, the pawn can pick up the pokeball and try again.

I think a good way to "expend" the pokeball is to make it disappear upon a successful tame.

To have stackable hediff and kills the animal after 10 try can also be exploited. Imagine a creature which is impossible to kill, i get 10 pawns to throw 10 pokeball at a time and it becomes an instant kill - its also a problem. Plus its not really lore-accurate.

In my test, because its like a EMP grenade, the explosion frightens the animal, and the animal will flee upon explosion (both successful tame and unsuccessful) - thus making it somewhat logical, that animals will not just stay there for you to tame them. And the funny thing (and good thing) is, that the explosion actually triggers manhunting mental break on the animal. Which means, a single fail attempt on a jaguar or a cobra, would means life or death situation for your pawn.

Which as a result, makes more sense to down the creature before attempting a tame. 

Another thing I feel that Hp should not be a concern for tame success rate, is because in the lore / anime - some low level pokemons are indeed easy to capture. But in rimworld-esque situation, the reason to still fight them and down them, is mainly because they dun keep still. 

Thus, for high level (high wildness) creatures, low level pokeballs will have high failure rate - making it really dangerous to try taming. Thus making it necessary to craft high level expensive pokeballs for high level creatures. And with the explosion radius code I added, we can also create higher level pokeballs that can do mass taming / area taming (the explosion cannot be massive, because it will lag the hell out of your computer due to the number of cells the game need to check) : mainly more useful to tame low level creatures without needing to fight it.

All in all, i dun think its wise to make it overly complex, for both game design and coding.

[Nekokon]

I understand what you were trying to do now. I was assuming all types of pokeballs have the same flat capture rate based solely on pawn's Animal level since you only mention the range different between each type in your previous post. If the ball's capture rate can be changed then just ignore the 2nd part of my post.

Somehow your way of explaining "how to catch wild animal" makes more sense than the original game. The main real life concept is still "to prevent them from running away or attack", but because it's a game they turned that into battle and I was hanging onto the game method instead of the logical one. I need to think team rocket harder.

Still, if hp won't affect success chance you will need to think of another way to limit balls spamming on downed pokemon since it's a lot harder to accidentally kill them now, especially strong ones. Maybe a lot of small bleeding wounds from fragments (but not much pain, to prevent them going down too easily with only balls) ? Strong pokemons still won't go down too fast, but by the time it does you will have a lot of patching to do, and spamming balls would make it bleed faster than your doctor can treat it.

Respawning ball after explode is good enough, but I was worrying about bugs with impassable terrain. If you can make it work then there's no problem, although you should pump the ingredients for pokeball up a bit. Also I'm not too sure about the idea of mass taming. Pokemon has always been kind of game focusing on individuals, thus it feels weird to be able to catch them enmasse and release toward raids like expandable pawns. For epic theme like Game of Throne, yes, but pokemon, errr... If you want to expand the idea of not having to fight to catch low level creatures, maybe make pokeball with lower rate but high accuracy and instantly explode upon hit ? It should be enough to catch them with just 1 shot when they're sleeping because of the low wildness, no fight needed.