Love the new combat system

Started by bwebster, August 14, 2014, 12:25:39 AM

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Gu1l7y5p4rk

The possibility of losing limbs and crippling colonists should have coincided with the introduction of 'at least' being able to use a wooden prosthetic in those cases.

Now I feel as if my game is 'crippled' until the next alpha comes out in a month or two.

Great otherwise, but kinda game-breaking/crippling... Literally. I would recommend rolling out at least one update to address any major bugs (if any) and adding the wooden prosthetic into the game.

Neurotoxin

Quote from: milon on August 14, 2014, 08:06:15 PM
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make a mod that nerfs the crippling effects currently in the game.  Those who don't like the bodypart / serious injury bits could easily bypass them.

EDIT - Until such a mod exists, the save game editor may be useful.

Woo free advertising. I do plan on implementing a healthTracker portion, but I'm no there just yet. As for a mod, you'd have to extend the healthTracker class, and replace the health tracker on every pawn with yours. I haven't looked into it beyond that (don't know if health tracker is assigned in Defs or in the actual code) so I can't say how hard that would be exactly.

As for the save editor, I'm working on the thoughts portion today. Maybe once I get through that I'll prioritize the healthtracker.

HatesYourFace

#17
Just did some more quick testing with start colonists.

1st test: 1 colonist shoots 2nd colonist twice with Hunting rifle before incapped. Healed back to full in a few days with no lasting conditions.
2nd test: 2 colonists shoot 3rd colonist 8 times with pistols before incapped. Colonist makes full recovery over several days except for one eye which was completely shot out. Shooting efficiency 50%/Work efficiency:93%
3rd test: 2 colonists shoot 3rd colonist with pistols, colonist is shot 6 times, 7th shot is to the head, fatal.
4th test: 2 colonists shoot 3rd colonist with hunting rifle/pistol. Colonist shot 4 times before incapp. Makes close to a full recovery in short order besides lingering pain and a scar on his hand.

So barring head shots, pretty much as long as the colonist doesn't actually lose a body part, and you treat him in time he's going to be mostly fine. (These guys didn't have any armor or helmets either which I imagine plays a large roll in protecting ones head/limbs from catastrophic damage, nor were they in cover.)
If you have any 2 of the following 3 things: Time, Interest, or Ability; Head on over to the RimWorld wiki and help improve/update it! http://rimworldwiki.com

Lost Cause

I must say that the new combat system seems to make it a lot easier to protect your base once you have 12 colonist in power armour and miniguns. Especially when they can hide behind steel walls and sandbags while raiders squeezing through that 1 tile wide gap in your wall which is packed with sandbags and contains a tight turn forcing them into close range with no cover no matter what sort of weapon they have and making the 10+ turrets just inside the wall just that little bit more helpful too.
So far this has been one of my most easily protected colonies and I didn't even need to use turrets as bombs.
I just hate my allies and want them all to die horribly. Get the heck out of my base you freeloading illegitimate progeny of whatever the local equivalent of a canine female is!
It doesn't matter how many arms a colonist has as long as one of them is a Minigun!

Neurotoxin

Quote from: Lost Cause on August 14, 2014, 11:35:07 PM
I must say that the new combat system seems to make it a lot easier to protect your base once you have 12 colonist in power armour and miniguns. Especially when they can hide behind steel walls and sandbags while raiders squeezing through that 1 tile wide gap in your wall which is packed with sandbags and contains a tight turn forcing them into close range with no cover no matter what sort of weapon they have and making the 10+ turrets just inside the wall just that little bit more helpful too.
So far this has been one of my most easily protected colonies and I didn't even need to use turrets as bombs.
I just hate my allies and want them all to die horribly. Get the heck out of my base you freeloading illegitimate progeny of whatever the local equivalent of a canine female is!

Shameless self-plug incoming:
Try out my mod Colonist Only Doors
Stop visitors entering certain areas (or your whole base) and lock pawns in to avoid threats.

UrbanBourbon

Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 14, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
^^Double-this.

Also, I don't get where everyone is coming up with idea that it's unfairly brutal and random.
Well, if you'd read the thread you'd find out
- Human jaws being broken by squirrels
- Human limbs getting dismembered by stones (or pistol shots)
- Colonists being able to function after getting shot in the heart

Neurotoxin

Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 15, 2014, 08:18:46 AM
Well, if you'd read the thread you'd find out
- Human jaws being broken by squirrels
- Human limbs getting dismembered by stones (or pistol shots)
- Colonists being able to function after getting shot in the heart

While I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.

I have another for the list though, raiders (or colonists) walking away from a headshot.

HatesYourFace

Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 15, 2014, 08:18:46 AM
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 14, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
^^Double-this.

Also, I don't get where everyone is coming up with idea that it's unfairly brutal and random.
Well, if you'd read the thread you'd find out
- Human jaws being broken by squirrels
- Human limbs getting dismembered by stones (or pistol shots)
- Colonists being able to function after getting shot in the heart

I did read the thread, but my personal playtime with Alpha 6 doesn't support the claim that these things are common place. At worst they are rare,  minor inconsistencies that will be ironed out as the system is balanced/improved. I've done quite a bit of testing in game and while random deaths or over exaggerated injuries do occur, they are the exemption, not the rule in my experience. The only thing that actually needs to be fixed is colonists being worthless without legs or arms, but prosthetic's are coming in Alpha 7 so who really cares? Put them out of their misery and recruit another colonist from one of the many incapped pirates no doubt laying around on the floor. Lol.
If you have any 2 of the following 3 things: Time, Interest, or Ability; Head on over to the RimWorld wiki and help improve/update it! http://rimworldwiki.com

HatesYourFace

Quote from: Neurotoxin on August 15, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
While I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.

I have another for the list though, raiders (or colonists) walking away from a headshot.

There are plenty of things on your head you don't need to live lol! He could have been shot in the ear, the nose, through his cheek etc...
If you have any 2 of the following 3 things: Time, Interest, or Ability; Head on over to the RimWorld wiki and help improve/update it! http://rimworldwiki.com

DeltaTango

Hey guys. I've been here since the Kickstarter but this is my first post ever.
I agree with most of you. The new combat system is great and gives a lot of depth to Rimworld. Of course it needs tweaking. I've never had a squirrel breaking my colonists jaw (probably because I now I draft five colonists to go kill a psychotic squirrel. You can never be to safe in a rimworld I imagine), or a stone cutting a limb of. However on one of my pirate besieging raids, one of my explosive shells landed one square away from a pirate and naturally all is limbs were shredded (arms, legs, neck, stomach) but amazingly he was still alive. Eventually I assaulted the raiders and managed to rescue him and I was thinking I should've put him out of is misery since he was still alive thanks to some supernatural entity (Tynan). But the good guy in me (or the bad depending on your point of view) wanted to rescue him, so I did. I healed him and for everyone's surprise he made a full recovery, even without a large amount of muscle tissue and I didn't use medicine, just tissues and hands. In the real world that guy would be incapacitated for life and if he wanted even to get out of bed he would need a lot os physiotherapy and painkillers and even that was a shot in the dark. So yeah the new combat system needs a tweak. This kind of remind that painkillers, antibiotics and some other pharmaceutical/drugs should also be added to the game, but that's for another topic.

This combat system isn't harsh or unfair, it's real. This kind of makes it harsh and unfair, but you get my point.
PS: Tynan keep up the good and hard work. It's only still alpha but you've already achieved a lot.

UrbanBourbon

Quote from: Neurotoxin on August 15, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
While I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.
Something like this occurred to me later as well, in the sense that a simple pistol shot could permanently disable a limb should the bullet hit the right nerve or cause critical muscle tissue damage.

Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 15, 2014, 08:58:56 AM
I did read the thread, but my personal playtime with Alpha 6 doesn't support the claim that these things are common place. At worst they are rare,  minor inconsistencies that will be ironed out as the system is balanced/improved. I've done quite a bit of testing in game and while random deaths or over exaggerated injuries do occur, they are the exemption, not the rule in my experience. The only thing that actually needs to be fixed is colonists being worthless without legs or arms, but prosthetic's are coming in Alpha 7 so who really cares? Put them out of their misery and recruit another colonist from one of the many incapped pirates no doubt laying around on the floor. Lol.
Well... Ok. I believe you. I don't know why, but I believe you.

Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 11:16:20 AM
This kind of remind that painkillers, antibiotics and some other pharmaceutical/drugs should also be added to the game, but that's for another topic.
I like to think that all those are included in the medical kits. They're just not visible. Or were you trying to suggest that recovering colonists should require regular medical treatment, and therefore consume medical supplies constantly over a period of time?

HatesYourFace

#26
Here's a good example of a seriously injured pawn making a full recovery, This raider was shot 5 times with a pistol and 4 times with an R-4 charge rifle, she wasn't wearing any armor and she wasn't in cover.



This colony is only 20 days old btw, so not like it has a good doctor or anything. (Highest skilled guy has a 7.)
If you have any 2 of the following 3 things: Time, Interest, or Ability; Head on over to the RimWorld wiki and help improve/update it! http://rimworldwiki.com

DeltaTango

That's on way to do it. Put everything on the medicalkit, like a first aid kit. If Rimworld wants to be as close to reality as it can be, then yes, colonists should require regular medical treatment but I can see that becoming to challenging for someone who's only looking to have fun. For instance, if a psychothic squirrel (probably has rabies or some kind of virus) attacks your colonist he might get infected. And with infection comes fever and other symptoms depending on the virus. He should also be in quarentine and at least for a week he should have regular medical care, if everything goes well. If not, he'll probably last a couple of days. But that's the clinical scientist in me talking right now.

DeltaTango

Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 15, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
Here's a good example of a seriously injured pawn making a full recovery, This raider was shot 5 times with a pistol and 4 times with an R-4 charge rifle, she wasn't wearing any armor and she wasn't in cover.

This colony is only 20 days old btw, so not like it has a good doctor or anything. (Highest skilled guy has a 7.)

A shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive

Rahjital

Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 03:57:25 PMA shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive

Or a colonist in Rimworld. :D

Really, though, as long as you aren't hit in the brain or eyes, you don't even need medkits, just let the doctor stop the bleeding and it's all fine. The chance of wounds going old is 1 in 200, which is very very rare.