Trade Alternatives

[Mathenaut]

They don't need to be interstellar. Interplanetary, perhaps. Traders arrive, on average, about once a month or longer. At sub-FTL speeds, that's enough to circuit planets in a system, even a particularly large one.

That's barely enough to establish that trade exists. Especially as things trend toward infrequent in late game.

Trading with other factions would be great. I wouldn't expect GW medicine carried by a trader that isn't well armed/protected, though, but it would be nice if a smaller list of items was available with each faction visit.

[Kegereneku]

Note : FTL = Faster than light, the word you seed is STL (Slower than Light)

Anyway, thinking about it Rimworld do not have/need that level of hard-SF, but if you had another civilized planet in the same star system the "spaceship end" shouldn't be as evolved as it is described to be.
You don't need an anti-matter core for interplanetary travel, a 'crude' fission drive is enough.
I would also say that 2 inhabitable planets in the same system is also improbable but that's actually as probable as having a inhabitable/terraformed planet with terran animals in the first place.

In retrospect... maybe just giving access or explaining how raider/trader(land-based) get their intercontinental "drop pod". We need a logic amongst not-too-soft-SF convention.

Aside, I've been on ProjectRho for too long.

[Mathenaut]

I would also say that 2 inhabitable planets in the same system is also improbable but that's actually as probable as having a inhabitable/terraformed planet with terran animals in the first place.

Inhabitable =/= 'earth like'.

Mars is inhabitable. Jupiter has several inhabitable moons. Could arguably inhabit Saturn's ring structure with a little innovation. The environments aren't the real obstacle to these places so much as distance.

I think a more interesting notion is that the colonists aren't the first to land on these worlds. There is alot that alludes to a history of these Rimworlds leading back ages before the colonist crashing.

Although, this does bring me back to the idea of implementing the other Rimworld types.

[Kegereneku]

If you take "we can live there provided we are protected in a can with Earth-like atmosphere" as inhabitable then anything is, it's part of reason we are actually unlikely to EVER terraform : by the time we have the mean to do so it will be easier to just live in space.

Anyway, here we are talking about Earth-like terraformed world with Earth-fauna, so it's relatively soft-SF.
From what I remember of Rimworld's lore those were abandoned planets and the compacted steel we mine are the remnant of very advanced civilization.

[johiah]

But in alpha 9 you can trade trough roofs...

[SSS]

If you take "we can live there provided we are protected in a can with Earth-like atmosphere" as inhabitable then anything is, it's part of reason we are actually unlikely to EVER terraform : by the time we have the mean to do so it will be easier to just live in space.

Anyway, here we are talking about Earth-like terraformed world with Earth-fauna, so it's relatively soft-SF.
From what I remember of Rimworld's lore those were abandoned planets and the compacted steel we mine are the remnant of very advanced civilization.

I would use that as the justification for the inhabitable planet - Said previous civilization was likely responsible for the terraforming, if this wasn't already an inhabitable planet for some reason. It's also possible that they introduced the Earth-like animals.

Still, I think the lore would work better if our colonists were actual space pioneers rather than shipwrecked space travelers. Why else would they be all the way out in the middle of nowhere, anyway? If the Rimworld is in between two more heavily populated areas, can you really say it's in the middle of nowhere?

I'm guessing the only reason to not do so is because one might expect the colonists to be better prepared if they were expecting to colonize, and maybe to make it seem more harsh. I don't think the former would take much to explain: Just say (1) that they were desperate to "move West" and took the cheapest method they could find, or (2) that they were exiled to a Rimworld rather than put in prison, for some reason, or (3) that their ship had difficulties/malfunctions and they had to give up most of their preparations to pay for assistance. That's three ideas on the spot, and I could probably come up with more if I tried. As for the harshness, living out in the boonies has always been known to be harsh, and even if their unwillingness to be out there is needed for some reason, then (2) above would work.

[Monkfish]

Space trading bothers me in that, like the OP said, if one can call someone to ask for potatoes (and be able to send monies for them automagically), surely one would at least ask about the possibility of being rescued, even if the response is anything ranging from "<click><static>" to "<missiles rained down on you from orbit>" to "sure, hop on board, we'll drop you off somewhere safer". However, this is an Alpha game and the current space trading mechanic is very likely to be a placeholder thing until such time as a better system can be implemented (and I'd wager that recent changes to faction relationships are a step towards that) so having some pithy arguments about how lore-friendly or probable any given scenario or reason for something is is a massive waste of time and effort.

My suspicion (and hope) is that the Orbital Trade Beacon would be changed to "Radio Mast" or "Radio Dish", and the Comms station would be used to contact local tribes to offer to trade with them. The items they have to trade could vary based on the type of tribe, their location and production rates. Once a trade has been completed, members of the other tribe would appear on the map and path to your radio beacon, whereby they would drop the items you have bought and collect the items you have sold before leaving.

This could, naturally, open up the possibilities of ambushing tribes you have traded with and stealing their goods and capture/kill their colonists and also has the benefit of not being a gaping wide hole in the plotline.

[Kegereneku]

From what I gathered of various source and the wiki, Rimworld is a mix of the typical far-west pioneer and a "dark age" setting after galactic decline.

There's valid reasons (SF speaking) for planet being terraformed then abandoned.
- Maybe the terraforming process was automated (mechanoid) and the few true colonist who emigrated there couldn't build a true civilization, the next generation devolving into tribes from lack of education.
- Maybe they abandoned the colonization effort when a war started on the homeworld
- Maybe they didn't needed the new planet anymore, the Glitterworld being so damn cool it doesn't need to expand (especially for resources)

Still, I think the lore would work better if our colonists were actual space pioneers rather than shipwrecked space travelers. Why else would they be all the way out in the middle of nowhere, anyway? If the Rimworld is in between two more heavily populated areas, can you really say it's in the middle of nowhere?

To me the pioneer case is actually the less credible possibility.
It's all in the number.
At speed slower than light, even at 50% of the speed of light (which is quite awesome) over close 20 light-year distance you would take 40 years.
And if inhabitable planet are 100 light-years apart, that's 200 years of travel, more than an human generation. Adding non-FTL communication (laser taking years to travel, just one way) you'd have to know if you can send colonist OR send send a self-sustaining population at once as if nobody else would follow OR... send robot to colonize the planet.

Two solar system 100Ly apart are basically more separated than China was from America before it was 'discovered'.
Imagine : event at short 20ly distance : 40y of colonist travel, 10y to 'prepare the planet', 20years for light to tell the first-world that it is viable...
And once you know you already have hundred of apparently sufficient colony, "preserving human civilization" is not a reason anymore.

But with Rimworld's lore right now it can be a lot of thing. Tynan choose well.

One could go from an Industrial World to a Glitterworld hoping for better comfort (immortality..etc)
One could go from Glitterworld to Industrial world thinking that with their knowledge they can accomplish great thing and become "founding father"
One could be a Pioneer sent to what was to be a new colony ... that actually collapsed 50years ago before their arrival
One could be a political exile going to a planet they think more suited to them
One could also be fleeing a Mechanoid invasion on their home planet and get stranded on planet where the mechanoid had scout
Or one know there's "other colony" and hope to find one where every land/asteroid haven't been bought already.

In all case the 'shipwrecked' tropes justify there not being 1000 pioneers landing at once with all survival equipment.
All this supposing that we don't live and travel in space-colony anyway

[keylocke]

tl;dr

i feel like the whole convo has been discussed to death before. my search button is broken by lazy, but i'm kinda sure i've been in a similar thread before. the "you can now trade indoors" is pretty new though, coz of the item degradation of A9.

as for the "you can't hitch a ride with the space traders" ... because "reasons.." argument,
my opinion is that it's a game balancing or design issue rather than a lore issue.

camps are usually divided between the "why" and the "why not?"
i think it's a matter of paradigm shifts.

as an experiment : the "why nots" should take the perspective of the "why" and vice versa.

seriously... fun times..

[ja7833]

I would also say that 2 inhabitable planets in the same system is also improbable but that's actually as probable as having a inhabitable/terraformed planet with terran animals in the first place.
Aside, I've been on ProjectRho for too long.

...and where everyone speaks English, even the animals - just like on real-life/TV 

[SSS]

@Kegereneku: How is having trade ships around more probable in a shipwrecked scenario?

That's the aspect that I found to be more probable, that would work better with the lore, if the colonists were actual space pioneers. Your argument is even harsher with a shipwreck on a rim world, since nobody will know to check in the first place.

I would also say that 2 inhabitable planets in the same system is also improbable but that's actually as probable as having a inhabitable/terraformed planet with terran animals in the first place.
Aside, I've been on ProjectRho for too long.

...and where everyone speaks English, even the animals - just like on real-life/TV 

B-b-but everyone does speak English. See? We're all speaking English right now! That proves it! ;P

[Mathenaut]

If the Rimworld is in between two more heavily populated areas, can you really say it's in the middle of nowhere?

Passing through 'flyover country'? 

On a side note, what always humors me about these conversations is how unrealistic reality is to some.

[Johnny Masters]

tl;dr

i feel like the whole convo has been discussed to death before. my search button is broken by lazy, but i'm kinda sure i've been in a similar thread before. the "you can now trade indoors" is pretty new though, coz of the item degradation of A9.

as for the "you can't hitch a ride with the space traders" ... because "reasons.." argument,
my opinion is that it's a game balancing or design issue rather than a lore issue.

camps are usually divided between the "why" and the "why not?"
i think it's a matter of paradigm shifts.

as an experiment : the "why nots" should take the perspective of the "why" and vice versa.

seriously... fun times..

Well, i did point that the can't catch a ride was, essentially, a gameplay decision to allow for both trading and the game to exist, which is something we agree. I usually try the "experiment", as you put it, but regarding the subject i never heard, until know, a sensible explanation. But Kegereneku's interpretation of trading ships as automated trading subroutines actually makes sense for me and its kinda cool. He also brought slave trading up, something that i completely overlooked and that would have prevented somethings. Since slave trading happens and their price is actually not that high, we can infer that transportation costs are not that absurd, one would just have to interpret/assume a reason why there aren't any non-questionable vessels around.

I won't dabble much on the rest of whys and hows because its too deeply in the realm of conjecture.

[RemingtonRyder]

At a guess, I would say that whomever or whatever operates trade ships this far out, it may take some time for shipments to move between solar systems.

If there are automated drone ships which can make contact with individual planets, then they likely take goods back and forward from some sort of 'hive' ship. It makes sense to not get a channel directly to a hive ship - they may not want to give away their position and invite an ambush, or the comm range of an improvised console may simply be too short to reach it.

While the crew of the hive ship (if there is a crew) may know that a ship crashed on a planet and that there are survivors, they may not be authorised to do anything about it. Their main concern would be getting the next shipment ready.  Also, they may have no particular qualms about exploiting rimworld systems if the locals (your colonists) are willing to gather up resources and ready them for transport in exchange for things that they have in abundance.

It'd be like Amazon in space.

[Johnny Masters]

At a guess, I would say that whomever or whatever operates trade ships this far out, it may take some time for shipments to move between solar systems.

If there are automated drone ships which can make contact with individual planets, then they likely take goods back and forward from some sort of 'hive' ship. It makes sense to not get a channel directly to a hive ship - they may not want to give away their position and invite an ambush, or the comm range of an improvised console may simply be too short to reach it.

While the crew of the hive ship (if there is a crew) may know that a ship crashed on a planet and that there are survivors, they may not be authorised to do anything about it. Their main concern would be getting the next shipment ready.  Also, they may have no particular qualms about exploiting rimworld systems if the locals (your colonists) are willing to gather up resources and ready them for transport in exchange for things that they have in abundance.

It'd be like Amazon in space.

Also makes sense, i wouldn't even be surprised if it were to be the actual amazon hehe

Besides trading, one must also think on the purpose of your pawns own ship. Since pawn backgrounds vary randomly, from primitive to glitterworlds, i think it's left unexplained so the player fills it with his own explanation (oh, it was a survey, a passenger, a military vessel, etc). Which, again, makes it possible for there to be more of it out there, giving you a chance to be rescued, as far as remote that chance would be.

Unless your pawn's ship was a trader itself, then local traffic is more than happy to see you go out of business?