Power production, storage & tech

[SpaceEatingTrex]

This seems like a good topic to revive in order to talk about different energy generation systems. Here's a quote from Spike that lists a number of ideas:

Some rough ideas, in a rough order of complexity:
Wind turbine - variable (zero to low) output, outdoor, dependent on wind, less effective if surrounded by hills/buildings.
Water turbine (are water tiles even in the game or planned?) - steady (low) output, outdoor.
Fossil fuel plant - burns fossil fuels (coal, oil), steady (medium) output, pollutes nearby/contained atmosphere (so no burying it in a hill, without having vulnerable vents), steady output.
Geothermal plant - steady (medium to high) output
Fission reactor - "burns" radioactive materials, steady (high) output, chance of dangerous leaks especially if damaged.
Solar cells - steady (medium) output, daytime only, outdoors.

Out of these, we already have the Geothermal Plant and Solar Cells. Uranium is in the game but currently non-functional, so presumably reactors are planned for the future.

The idea I'd most like to see is a coal (or similar) plant, since including coal would give mining another purpose as well. This would be a resource-limited source of power, which isn't currently in the game. I don't know if the game needs a pollution mechanic; I think the opportunity cost of colonists having to mine coal and bring it to a coal furnace and the fact that it's a consumable resource are enough drawbacks.

In addition to the ones in this list, here are some other possibilities mentioned in this thread or elsewhere:

Lightning Rods - lightning rods could attract lighting and generate power when struck. This would only be an occasional source of power, so it's unlikely players would rely on it. If these are implemented the primary purpose would be redirecting lightning. In order to not completely neutralize the threat the heat from the lightning could still start fires around the rods.

Animal Power - things like hamster (squirrel) wheels or Muffalo treadmills could generate power. It seems like this would require Animal Husbandry mechanics to be implemented so that animals can be tamed and trained. This would be one of the more unique sources of power.

Colonist Power - Colonists could run some kind of mechanical device to generate power. The cost of the power here would be the Colonists' time. A drawback would be this couldn't provide power when Colonists are sleeping.

One thing to be cautious of is making the power system too complicated and confusing for players. Each source of power should be unique - if Colonists can burn coal for power then we shouldn't do the same for oil and natural gas because it's all functionally similar, and the extra options would just complicate the system. Rather than implementing all the different ideas we come up with I think we should look at all the ideas and see which ones would add the most depth to the game.

[GC13]

I'd lose the fossil fuels and just go with biomass. It's all organic matter anyway, and saves the complexity of having something else to mine. Animal/colonist power would be silly though.

I like the niches you proposed, Spike. Water turbines should be cheap, like a spammable geothermal plantâ€"they share the niche of "free" energy that you are restricted on placement.

[AspenShadow]

Agreed, me and Spike already discussed the Lore Difficulty that comes with adding fossil fuels I think somewhere in this thread. Biomass is the simpler solution, though I'd beg you to reconsider the idea of Muffalo on treadmills simply for the comic value of it in Low-Tech societies.

[SpaceEatingTrex]

I think an important thing to consider is how much player involvement should be involved with power generation. A reason why I'd like to see a resource-gathering system like fossil fuels is because it keeps the player involved in assigning colonists to mine the resource, or trading for the resource, or etc. The same goes for animal power with the animals being trained/managed.

The current power sources like solar panels and geothermic plants are a "build and forget" system. Unless something goes wrong once a player's built them that's the end of the player involvement.

I think it would be good to have both types of power sources for the power system. What do you think?

[Spike]

I think what really needs to be developed first is the end goal.  I mean, if it would go with the "build spaceship & leave" goal, you'd be keeping your colonists busy researching, harvesting resources, and then actually building the ship.  In addition to growing food and fending off bandits.  If that is the case, I like the hands-off type of power generation as it is now.  You get metals, build the generators, lay out power lines, and you can leave it alone aside from repairs.

On the other hand, if you have to mine coal for the power plant, then it adds another management burden on the player, which could pile up.

*This sparks a storyline idea to resolve some issues, but would require reworking a few other things.  What if everyone (you, traders, pirates) are all shipwreck survivors.  Some want to live there and will interact with you (traders).  Others want to take your stuff (pirates).  It would make a bit more sense than traders flying by and refusing to give you a lift.

[AspenShadow]

I think what really needs to be developed first is the end goal.

I disagree with all respect, this is an issue that will not be resolved to everyone's taste for QUITE some time lol and that's if Ty even decides on an end game for a Sim-based builder that wasn't designed with one in mind. There are many options and I think in the end that's what's going to happen to the project. Many endings, chosen perhaps based on the story-teller or by the player or even by the colonists based on how the AI interprets you're playing the game, but there won't be a single "Let's Get Off This Rock!" ending imo.
And in the meantime we can't let that delay/interfere with discussing important issues even if we have to discuss the possible systems to put in place for both no end-game, leave-end-game, and every end-game.

*This sparks a storyline idea to resolve some issues, but would require reworking a few other things.  What if everyone (you, traders, pirates) are all shipwreck survivors.  Some want to live there and will interact with you (traders).  Others want to take your stuff (pirates).  It would make a bit more sense than traders flying by and refusing to give you a lift.

Once again the "Hitchhiker Inconsistency" as I've come to call it, is currently the most hotly debated topic on the forum and it's something I agree really needs to be sorted. We must try to restrict brainstorming of loopholes that are somewhat Canon/Plot-Relevant for the RimWorld saga to ONE thread because people are getting side-tracked into discussing it on 3/5 threads I visit.

[Spike]

Yeah, I posted the storyline idea over in the Rimworld story clarification thread already, after I had put it here.  It was just a random thought that popped up as I was replying here.

But what I meant about developing the end goal was that it would be too easy to be overwhelmed with things to do.  Yes, each little idea just adds a little... but it all adds up for the player.  So if we get a major amount of resources that need to be gathered, that will take time away from other things that we need to get done.  From the videos so far, it looks like it could be easy to get task overload.

It really boils down to resource allocation for the player, with the limited resource being your colonists.  Build or dig?  Talk to prisoners or plant food?  Bury bodies and clean up blood splatter, or research?  But so far, everything really relies on power, so it's an important thing to keep in mind - everything in the game so far is a one-time resource allocation.  You get the metal, build the generator and batteries and not really worry about it unless you have to expand.  If you add in a continuing need to get fuel, it puts extra strain on what the player can do - which might be a valid design element, if it's planned for and integrated with other facets of the game.

However, I could see a one-time structure to do fossil fuels.  Lets say you have an oil-burning generator, and need to build it on an "oil deposit" - functionally the same as a geothermal vent.  Or have to link the generator to an "oil well" that will automatically pump oil to the generator.  But I couldn't see (as the game currently is) having a coal burning plant that requires you to continually dig coal and haul it over.

Along those lines, I could see a biomass generator, that can be used to dispose of animal corpses, as long as the power is not dependent on the corpses.  Just assume it has enough fuel, and use it as a convenient dumping ground for muffalo, boomrat & squirrel bodies (unless they'll be implemented for food paste).

[starlight]

I think an important thing to consider is how much player involvement should be involved with power generation. A reason why I'd like to see a resource-gathering system like fossil fuels is because it keeps the player involved in assigning colonists to mine the resource, or trading for the resource, or etc. The same goes for animal power with the animals being trained/managed.

The current power sources like solar panels and geothermic plants are a "build and forget" system. Unless something goes wrong once a player's built them that's the end of the player involvement.

I think it would be good to have both types of power sources for the power system. What do you think?

I agree that a build-and-forget system will reduce player interest.

I propose the following:
1. All buildings / machines, etc have power requirements.
You can build buildings but you cannot use them if you do not have enough power.
You can power on/off buildings to micro-manage.  This incentivises the player to increase power sources.

2. The initial solar generator would generate enough power to get the basics up and running (say 10x) (where x is a unit of power).

3. Beyond that, you will need to make choices.
You can make more solar generators only after re-searching them (a long time in the tree).
You can go with various options - suggested by people in other posts like wind, coal, etc.

I don't have a problem with coal. Not even from a lore point of view. Why couldn't life have started on this planet long back.

[Gryff]

Other than power generation, I think there could be a lot of fun in some additional methods of power redirection and control.

Pressure plates, trip wires and motion detectors(slight power drain) could allow for some devices to only be activated when needed for power conservation or traps.

Resistors, diodes and logic gates allow for dedicated batteries (Power goes in, but can only be used by a single circuit or device), or complex devices (air locks, traps).

Powered pumps (if water is implemented), Fans (likewise temperture), Electric Fences and other devices could be controlled by the above items. This could be for on demand cooling, irrigation or the ever popular traps.

The main advantage of creating system components here, rather than black box systems is that is allows the player to create grand, over complicated creations in addition to merely survival orientated devices. This can add a great deal of entertainment and self inflicted 'fun' for those times when there are no raiders, pest infestations and starvation.

[mumblemumble]

Being able to export power (selling it, maybe in a form of crafting portable batteries, charging and selling them) Would be nice. Energy is most definitely a commodity, and it would be helpful to somehow be able to sell it. Perhaps by a research item which costs X amount of metal, removes a large amount of power from the grid, and can be sold for a good amount.

another idea, it would be funny if you could use squirrels / muffalos on running wheel generators.

On a side note, it would be useful to have a hardened conduit which gives immunity to solar flares (perhaps other electrical failures) and also have higher health.

[Semmy]

if tynan will ever add ammunition you could craft your own power cells.

[starlight]

*This sparks a storyline idea to resolve some issues, but would require reworking a few other things.  What if everyone (you, traders, pirates) are all shipwreck survivors.  Some want to live there and will interact with you (traders).  Others want to take your stuff (pirates).  It would make a bit more sense than traders flying by and refusing to give you a lift.

I like this idea. Not from a Lore point of view, but from playability.

Some of them will be on-map, some off-map.

[NephilimNexus]

Mining don't produce debris, but destroyed stuff does. Right now there no way of removing completely rock, debris and slag, you have to make your colonists haul them to designated dump areas.

Which you can then surround with blasting charges and thus vaporize all of the offending debris.

[Atomicburn]

    I would like to see electricity safety items. Like breakers to limit a shorting wall's pull to just what your generators are making currently, and maybe a few other ways to store power that would be less prone to exploding or burning when wet or damaged. Like outdoor batteries or hardened batteries would be nice to have.
    Backup batteries would be cool too. Basically batteries that don't discharge until all other batteries and power sources fail. That way you could put them near your turrets or other defenses that need power and would be secure (till they ran out anyway) if you lost your generators or the conduits were destroyed. You could balance that by making them only power what is near them via the small conduits. that way they would be a one room backup system that would keep the doors and lights working in a room or keep a turret firing after you lost your solar arrays. Just a random thought.
    And breakers to protect against power surges like the shorting walls and lightning strikes would be nice to have.