Power production, storage & tech

[Spike]

Hi all.  Coming here from the Dwarf Fortress forums, and there was a question about power generation that Tynan commented he'd like to do more with.  So, some thoughts & ideas.  (Bearing in mind that I have to wait 29 more days to actually play the game, so I'm going off video information. )

From the vids I've seen, it looks like the default/only power generation method so far is solar panels & batteries.  Also, there are comments about tech levels ranging from primitive to extreme future-tech.  Adding to that, the initial settlers are crash survivors.

My rough thoughts on the matter:

• Initial power generation would come from hooking into the crash pods (small scale solar panels & batteries).  Very minor levels of power generation, that would need to be upgraded as you grow the colony.
• The crash pod might include some kind of survival guide, allowing the colonists to make primitive tech.  The exact types available would be varied, due to computer damage in the crash.
• Some colonists might have knowledge of other tech.
• Research, or buying "recipes" for more advanced stuff.

I'm not if this kind of thing is already planned, or how the research tree is set, so these are just some initial ideas from reading posts, in the interests of stirring discussion.   

Personally, I would like to see a detailed and varied research tree.  Plus it could tie in to other facets, such as available resources, trading, or newcomers bringing in knowledge.

[Rainy]

I like the idea of the escape pods being used for early game power, maybe they could even be used for early shelter from the elements.  They would only last for a few nights at most to force you into building something more permanent.

The low tech start is something I like to,  Finding the first set of plans in the wreckage could be randomly chosen from a small set of low tech upgrades.

As for storage i'm wondering if there are any plans to have to manage the debris made from mining out walls?  On the videos I've currently seen it looks like they leave no trace behind when mining,  I know it can be a pain but I liked it in Dwarf Fortress when part of mining was also housekeeping and getting all that rock out of there.  Again this could be tied into the research options, maybe the upgraded miners leave a lot less debris behind etc. 

[British]

The crash pod might include some kind of survival guide, allowing the colonists to make primitive tech.  The exact types available would be varied, due to computer damage in the crash.

I'm assuming it already does, somehow, as the different things you can build are always the same, disregarding your colonists' knowledge.
And since you can choose to start with 3 illiterate survivors...

On the matter of power generation, Tynan said (can't remember where) that the plan is indeed to have a whole range of power-generating apparatuses, with drawbacks, so that they are not over-powered (I'm so funny !).
This could probably be that for instance, if you build a nuclear plant, there could be leaks, so you wouldn't want to have your colonists live close to it... and maybe it's very unstable and can explode and do a huge mess.

TL;DR: It's in the pipe.

[Sky_walker]

As for production, storage and tech - I think it should apply not only to power, but also:

- Water
Obvious stuff. Store water to survive droughts and heat waves, water the plants. Clean water for safe drinking. More advanced systems would allow you to turn water into hydrogen and use it as a power cells for weapons (or perhaps in future: vehicles). Finally you'll have to gather purified water and hydrogen for your space ship (hydrogen again can be used as a fuel).
Extracting hydrogen could also produce oxygen to be use in "air" part:

- Air
It's something oriented more at the space ship construction. First you'll be able to install air filters in the indoors areas and tunnels to prevent some catastrophic events (like dust storms) from harming your colonists. Eventually you will need oxygen pumps to pump fresh air into very long, deep tunnels, finally you'll be able to adapt some of air-clearing machinery onto the space ship for life support.

[Semmy]

As for production, storage and tech - I think it should apply not only to power, but also:

- Water
Obvious stuff. Store water to survive droughts and heat waves, water the plants. Clean water for safe drinking. More advanced systems would allow you to turn water into hydrogen and use it as a power cells for weapons (or perhaps in future: vehicles). Finally you'll have to gather purified water and hydrogen for your space ship (hydrogen again can be used as a fuel).
Extracting hydrogen could also produce oxygen to be use in "air" part:

- Air
It's something oriented more at the space ship construction. First you'll be able to install air filters in the indoors areas and tunnels to prevent some catastrophic events (like dust storms) from harming your colonists. Eventually you will need oxygen pumps to pump fresh air into very long, deep tunnels, finally you'll be able to adapt some of air-clearing machinery onto the space ship for life support.

solar batteries - day and night cycle -  else no defence at night

[British]

- Air
It's something oriented more at the space ship construction. First you'll be able to install air filters in the indoors areas and tunnels to prevent some catastrophic events (like dust storms) from harming your colonists. Eventually you will need oxygen pumps to pump fresh air into very long, deep tunnels, finally you'll be able to adapt some of air-clearing machinery onto the space ship for life support.

There's actually already an "Air Miner", an "Air Tank" and an "Air Outlet" in-game, but I'm not sure they're of any use as of right now.

Tynan is considering having low-oxygen atmospheres, though, possibly for higher difficulty settings.

[Hypolite]

As for storage i'm wondering if there are any plans to have to manage the debris made from mining out walls?  On the videos I've currently seen it looks like they leave no trace behind when mining,  I know it can be a pain but I liked it in Dwarf Fortress when part of mining was also housekeeping and getting all that rock out of there.  Again this could be tied into the research options, maybe the upgraded miners leave a lot less debris behind etc. 

Mining don't produce debris, but destroyed stuff does. Right now there no way of removing completely rock, debris and slag, you have to make your colonists haul them to designated dump areas.

[Spike]

Air, heat and cooling would all be good tie-ins to the Biome module idea, or even a generalized "comfort zone" type of status.  Heck, who doesn't like AC on a hot day?   Actually, power plants could also generate varying amounts of heat, which could be good or bad based on the biome you're in (if/when biomes are put in).

I'm not sure how the game handles power generation and usage.  I would imagine that power plants generate X units of power per Y unit of time, and that machines use X power per Y time.  Batteries would store the overflow, and be used when the generator is not functioning.

Also, the idea of "researching" from a survival guide would be about like any of us researching how to build anything from the web.  I mean, I have a rough idea of how to build a wind turbine power generator - but I couldn't sit down and do it, without more information.  I don't think power generators should be any kind of linear tree, but independent research items in that field, so you could get what you want depending on what resources are available.

Some rough ideas, in a rough order of complexity:
Wind turbine - variable (zero to low) output, outdoor, dependent on wind, less effective if surrounded by hills/buildings.
Water turbine (are water tiles even in the game or planned?) - steady (low) output, outdoor.
Fossil fuel plant - burns fossil fuels (coal, oil), steady (medium) output, pollutes nearby/contained atmosphere (so no burying it in a hill, without having vulnerable vents), steady output.
Geothermal plant - steady (medium to high) output
Fission reactor - "burns" radioactive materials, steady (high) output, chance of dangerous leaks especially if damaged.
Solar cells - steady (medium) output, daytime only, outdoors.

As for storage, I had originally meant "power storage".   Batteries aren't just batteries - you use different ones for your phone and car.  So I thought maybe there should be a variety of battery tanks, that would hold different amounts of power - small, medium & large.  Yes, you could build multiples, but the advantage of having a larger battery would be that it could hold more than multiple smaller batteries.  But it would also cost more to build, and there might be a chance of explosions or leakage from damage, with the potential danger increasing with size.  (As in, radius of explosion/contamination, not just a greater chance.)

[AspenShadow]

Some rough ideas, in a rough order of complexity:
Wind turbine - variable (zero to low) output, outdoor, dependent on wind, less effective if surrounded by hills/buildings.
Water turbine (are water tiles even in the game or planned?) - steady (low) output, outdoor.
Fossil fuel plant - burns fossil fuels (coal, oil), steady (medium) output, pollutes nearby/contained atmosphere (so no burying it in a hill, without having vulnerable vents), steady output.
Geothermal plant - steady (medium to high) output
Fission reactor - "burns" radioactive materials, steady (high) output, chance of dangerous leaks especially if damaged.
Solar cells - steady (medium) output, daytime only, outdoors.

I'm not sure what Tynan's plans are for batteries varying in size, though the tooltip does state their ultimate capacity so perhaps it's an indicator it's future content. I'm not sure about the idea of them suddenly exploding, but perhaps if you didn't use them enough, or the opposite, you kept draining them and refilling them all the time instead of letting them maintain a steady medium-level then they'd malfunction/explode.

I like the energy ideas, though I'm leery of "Fossil Fuel" as obviously that is just an abundance of organic life from eons past crushed and pressurized and heated, the RimWorld we're on may have a few scarce plants and creatures now but it may have only recently developed life?

Throwing in a few of my own for the higher-tech fictional tiers:
Biomass
Fusion Reactor
Cold Fusion Reactor
Graviton Accelerator
Dark Matter Reducer

Also an amusing one for the very low-tier that popped into my head is wrangling Muffalo onto treadmills. Shhh, don't call PETA 

[Spike]

I'm not sure what Tynan's plans are for batteries varying in size, though the tooltip does state their ultimate capacity so perhaps it's an indicator it's future content. I'm not sure about the idea of them suddenly exploding

I was mainly thinking about side effects, good or bad, with explosions as a possible result from damage.  Looking at the wiki, for example, there are Table, Short (Size 2x2, Cost 20 Metal, HP 150 ) and Table, Long (Size 4x2, Cost 35 Metal, HP 250).  So smaller batteries might be cheaper on a 1v1 basis, but would not be as sturdy nor hold as much.  Building one Battery, Medium would be cheaper than building two Battery, Small.  On the bad side, if they get damaged in a fight, an exploding Battery, Medium would deal more damage over a bigger area.

I like the energy ideas, though I'm leery of "Fossil Fuel" as obviously that is just an abundance of organic life from eons past crushed and pressurized and heated, the RimWorld we're on may have a few scarce plants and creatures now but it may have only recently developed life?

Throwing in a few of my own for the higher-tech fictional tiers:
Biomass
Fusion Reactor
Cold Fusion Reactor
Graviton Accelerator
Dark Matter Reducer

Also an amusing one for the very low-tier that popped into my head is wrangling Muffalo onto treadmills. Shhh, don't call PETA 

I actually did think about treadmills, which do have a historical precedent.   And I do agree with you about Fossil Fuels - there is no reason for every map to have every resource.  I think this would be a good addition to the Biome idea - different resources for different biomes.  Cold dead world with no geothermal vents.  New-life world with no "life history" to have produced fossil fuels.

[British]

(...) perhaps if you didn't use them enough, or the opposite, you kept draining them and refilling them all the time instead of letting them maintain a steady medium-level then they'd malfunction/explode.

It would probably step on "too much micro-management" territory, just like switching appliances on and off to save on power...

[AspenShadow]

(...) perhaps if you didn't use them enough, or the opposite, you kept draining them and refilling them all the time instead of letting them maintain a steady medium-level then they'd malfunction/explode.

It would probably step on "too much micro-management" territory, just like switching appliances on and off to save on power...

The thought had occurred to me as I was writing it down tbh, though in the current Pre-Alpha you can turn power to certain things off such as the turrets. Do you think this will be unique to automated weaponry? Or all automated machine content?

[British]

It's probably more about Tynan exploring concepts than anything specific, but only he can answer that... and with the explosion of people (and threads) on the forum, it might take some time before we get an answer

[AspenShadow]

Lol quite true 

Out of curiosity, as you're the veteran here, what time zone does Tynan operate in?

Is he Canadian and someplace else or actually in Canada?

[British]

http://ludeon.com/blog/studio/
"Ludeon Studios is an independent game developer in Ottawa, Canada."

I'd assume he's there indeed, as he IS Ludeon Studios, for all intent and purpose
Also, the default forum clock is most likely aligned there.