Replace auto-turrets with manned turrets

[gophertuna]

I believe replacing auto-turrets with manned turrets would greatly improve the game, both mechanically and thematically. I've seen the idea of manned turrets floating around, and I'm here to formally suggest it again.

Thematically, auto-turrets just doesn't fit. The idea should be the colonists are the ones who should be doing the fighting, both against the environment and raiders. Having machines do it for them just seems in opposition to that idea. The turrets should be a tool that assists, not something that does it for the colonists completely.

Mechnically, I don't like the idea of including turrets in the colony strength calculation . I know why it needs to exist in its current form, since each auto-turrets are basically equivalent to having an extra fighter your colony strength.

However, this presents several problems. To a less informed player, this could easily lead to a destructive positive feedback loop, where more turrets are being built to in trying to overcome the raider threat, unknowingly increasing the threat itself with every turret. For someone more informed, this can create the mentality to game the system, when determining whether or not to build a turret.
This also leads to the requirements of killboxes in later games. As much as I like and appreciate a well designed automated meat-grinder, I feel it just doesn't fit in well with the game.

In addition, this makes mountain bases much more enticing compared to an open air base. I like mountain bases, and I like open air bases. I would like to see them bother as a viable solution with their own equal set of benefits and challenges.

Having a hard cap on turrets isn't a very elegant solution. Making turrets weaker would just make them useless to build. Removing them completely seems rather drastic. After all, the colonists need more defensive options, not less.

I think replacing auto-turrets with manned turrets is potential solution to all these current problems. They would require a colonist to operate just like the mortar, and perhaps even require ammo that is bought and/or crafted. In this way, the player cannot just leave it up to the turrets to take care of things, he still needs to direct his colonists when the fighting starts.

This basically turns the turret from being equivalent of having an extra fighter, to something more similar to gearing up a colonist. It trades a colonist's mobility and versatility for firepower. It could even provide a level of cover for the operator (or an upgrade that can be researched) or benefit from sandbags if it's set behind a set of them.

In this way, a player can build as many turrets as he wants, but he can only operate so many at a time (and for a certain amount of time, if ammo is required). So having many manned turrets built would still provide an advantage, but no where near the edge provided by having many auto-turrets. Hopefully this also means the possibility reducing the turret's significance in the colony strength calculation or even eliminate it from the equation altogether.

In addition, maybe this could also lead to making turrets less of an aggro magnet, and possibly less "explody". As much fun as seeing a swarm of tribals try to melee a turret and get wrecked in the explosion, it just turns them into expensive mines instead, which doesn't seem like appropriate use of a turret.

Hopefully this suggestion gets considered. I enjoy the game immensely and only want it to get better.

[nmid]

I like it..
Having manned turrents removed from calculating a base strength/value would allow me to design a better base defended from various sides, not just a killbox approach.

[Adamiks]

50/50. For now turrets are OP, but i think that better idea is adding new resource like electronics chips for Auto-Turrets.

[Locklave]

I agree with the OP, manned turrets fit the game better.

[jamesinar]

A gun should be required as an ingredient for any turret. Otherwise you have your colonists crafting the gun for a turret when they can't make one for themselves.

[TLHeart]

with the changes coming for aplha 11, the whole automated turret debate will change.

But I have found that with the current attack pattern of enemies, having turrets is actually detrimental, as they target the turret ALWAYS. An open base, built with choke points, makes dealing with a raid of 50 enemies who split up and attack different parts of the base a much better game for me.  I get to pick them off in small groups, capture more of them, since they are not shredded by the turrets, keep the good ones, train my medical staff, get needed body parts....

And yes I have a few repairs to do after the attack, I loose a few doors, and maybe a solar panel...

Auto turrets should be a late game, researched item. A manned turret should be an option early on, and it should be counted as part of the colony strength, as it does increase the fire power of the colony.

[SSS]

My vision of a manned turret would be more fortified than an autoturret, would require two colonists to man (think machine turret nest- one to shoot and one to feed ammo), and wouldn't factor as heavily into the colony strength. Producing the ammo might be overkill, but it could work if it allowed continuous or near-continuous fire (read: overpowered) until said ammo runs out.

I would find that preferable to autoturrets, which should (imo) be an expensive weak automated defense more suited for dealing with enemies inside the colony (if walls are breached, for example).

[Frankenbeasley]

Maybe Centipede miniguns should be taken out of the portable category. How about Centipedes have a chance to drop any of their weapons and those weapons can then be mounted and turned into manned turrets? So, you could have Minigun, Inferno Cannon, or Charge Lance emplacements, which require personnel but have the kill-power, and standard auto-turrets, which lack the oomph of the manned weapons but don't cost you colonists.

[kingtyris]

Superior Crafting does a pretty good job of handling turrets, where manned turrets are researched first and then auto turrets are researched much later. I like the idea of adding ammo into the game, and while many have made good arguments against ammo for colonist weapons, large caliber ammo for turrets in my opinion is a fine idea.I would like to see manned turrets introduced into the vanilla game.

[Mimic]

i don't think auto turrets should be replaced  they should be added to the game. They could be maned by colonists and their accuracy could be based on the colonists skills. How ever the auto turrets could be nurfed and the maned variant could become more superior then the auto turret.   

[ctgill]

I forget the name of the mod I use that does this (super helpful I know) but it places sockets that you can then mount guns into after research and ive found it to be quite enjoyable for gameplay of a more defensive nature. All the different approaches you can do, suddenly turrets become flexible.. scattergun turrets or grenade turrets. All in all the idea of mounting a .50 on a wall for a colonist to mount under dire circumstances not only seems like a good idea but one you think you may encounter on a rim planet fraught with danger and raids on a monthly basis.

[king komodo]

Replace completely I will disagree but adding manned turrets and making auto turrets a late game item is something I will wholeheartedly agree with. I also like the ammo idea just so long as it crafting boxes of ammo instead of 1 bullet at a time (sounds obvious but people do forget things).

[porcupine]

Maybe Centipede miniguns should be taken out of the portable category. How about Centipedes have a chance to drop any of their weapons and those weapons can then be mounted and turned into manned turrets? So, you could have Minigun, Inferno Cannon, or Charge Lance emplacements, which require personnel but have the kill-power, and standard auto-turrets, which lack the oomph of the manned weapons but don't cost you colonists.

I like this idea, take existing weapons, and make turrets craft able in stages, and impacted by the weapons you use to power 'em.  Maybe the turret is effectively just a modifier of the gun that's built into it, once the gun is built in, it cannot be removed to be re-used, only scrapped.  Sure, you can build a turret with a lee-enfield rifle, but it won't be that great.  Down the road if you pick off a charge lance, you can rebuild this into the turret. 

Staged upgrades (IE: adding sights, sandbags/metal shields, ammunition auto-feeders, pivot mechanisms to improve field of fire, enhanced mounts to increase aim distance/decrease aim time) could all be added, and maybe scrapped when changing the gun (so you're back down to basic turret).  Maybe some of the addons/combo's require energy as the existing system, maybe a lot, and the whole bit requires 1+ colonist to operate at all.