Tech booming, realism, pacing.

[mumblemumble]

I find it funny with research being a thing, that you can go from landing completely desolate, to building solar panels, automated AI controlled turrets, conduits, ect.

I know that tynan added wood, and other stuff to make it feel more basic at the start, but it really doesn't feel that way...here is bit of input on it.

First, perhaps making research a bit more complex, like needing materials to study, ect. Like reverse engineering a turret makes far more sense than just having someone sitting at a table, and suddenly understanding how to make a massive geothermal generator.

Second, more simple means of dealing with issues such as light, cooking, defense, with easier, but more tedious means... campfires are a good step, lanterns for light could also be nice, more traps, using certain items with wood for fuel (cook stove could use wood, right?) ect... That jump from wood age to modern is a bit jarring, and if the player had to spend a month at least to get a turret, then it could really lengthen the game, something people have been requesting anyway.

These are just a few thoughts, any other input is appreciated. I actually think this would fit incredibly well with animal husbandry. As for worries about raiders, I think it could make sense that, short of an occasional punk, a wood age settlement with nothing important wouldn't be worth raiding, compared to a base with electricity, light, heat / cooling, ect. And I myself like the idea of having a more "old west" feeling, but this doesn't last long, before your only way to advance needs electricity.

[Thane]

The only problem with that is that it would make Ice Sheets completely untenable again. There are already a number of mods that do just what you are talking about; I'm not sure how version compatible some of them are, but at least for now it's not viable for vanilla.

Would something like this be ideal? Yes, but there would have to be a few caveats and some clever engineering to make it work.

[A1win]

Lengthening the game for the sake of lengthening the game is not good. I really like the way most things currently are at the start of the game. I tried the overhaul modpack that includes Superior Crafting, and it just felt like it added duplicates of already existing content, like having to research the very basic things without which you can't do much at all. Might just as well start with that tech like right now you do. It's good to have mods that do overhauls of the gameplay, but in my opinion, the base game itself doesn't need this kind of an overhaul. I'd rather see content added to the late game rather than the early game.

[b0rsuk]

I'm not opposed to the idea, just keep in mind that those people are not going through ages. They know technology, have the basic idea. Maybe they build it with too much ease rather than making simple tools, then fashioning better tools with them.

The only stuff this guy didn't make himself is his underwear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCKkHqlx9dE

[Menuhin]

What borsuk said is pretty much spot on.  This isn't age of empires, we're not progressing through different technological era's.  These are people with some previous knowledge in a sci-fi universe.

However I would still really like to see a lot more lower end tech/ and manufacturing in vanilla.  The problem with most of that lower end tech is how you would balance it with higher tech.  I do think its a little weird that we can just build a solar gen. and battery on day one.  However adding a bunch of tiers in tech to be able to basically play the game in current state I think just adds a grind before you actually start playing the game.

I think we already have this somewhat, as there are a fair amount of people who don't really start playing the game until they get Stone cutting and Geothermal research done.

[skullywag]

Has anyone ever built a campfire...? And if you did why? Within 5 mins of gametime you can have a house with power and heating and a cook stove, all the mats for this drop with you...

[HalfmoonSmile]

Consistency in quality of life tech unlocks would create more divergent early gameplay; wood/steel walls stink, but you can squat inside them awhile, especially in mountain or large hill starts. Likewise, not having a cooler is survivable with a small colony that actively works to get food (and in the cold biomes where food is actually scarce and needs to be stockpiled, it hardly matters).

Auto doors, turrets, and coolers are examples of quality of life devices, in that they remove burdens from colonists, but aren't strictly necessary for survival; techlocking them would lead to varying decisions, based on biome and start location, adding replay value.

[Devon_v]

Anyone wanting more depth to tech/research should install Superior Crafting and play around a bit. It makes for a different game, but not necessarily a better one. I personally like the longer struggle for the good stuff, but it does just kinda make you suffer through the crappy tech until you manage to get solar/batteries/cooling on line. I do like the manual turrets though, with autoturrets being a much later tech.

Overall the game is like being shipwrecked on an island. If you can find the materials, and you know how something is constructed, you can go ahead and build it. You might have to do some thinking on how to work with what you have though, which is what Rimworld research seems like to me. And for all we know everyone carries a sonic screwdriver in the future.

[TLHeart]

Yes I have built a campfire early in the game, with an outdoor table to sit at and eat. Was it necessary, no but it was fun.

I use campfires to protect my crops in the greenhouses from freezing. I prefer greenhouses over hydroponics.

[HalfmoonSmile]

Superior Crafting is too focused on minutia for my taste, though it has some great ideas. I'm OK with mechanics like cotton=cloth, because the game is abbreviated--- there are only 10 days in a month; mechanics like that are a summarization of tedium, something Tynan is fairly adept at balancing.

That said, there ought to be a bit more progression. People have made reasonable suggestions here and elsewhere in the forums about optional, luxury techs:

• Acclimitization research for most crops (depending on biome?).
• Techs that improve workbench speed or variety of goods produced, or increase the range of your grow lights, for additional power cost.
• Junction boxes/insulated wiring for powerlines.
• Timed/smart controllers that can reroute power away from production areas not being used, with a potential new use for AI cores.

*I didn't mean to turn this into a suggestion thread. My point is that a few more techs that are situationally useful would help replay and story building, and thus progression.

[Devon_v]

I meant just in terms of trying out the game with almost all tech being research gated and seeing how it effects play.

[b0rsuk]

Superior Crafting sounds like something I should give a try.

I never used campfires for cooking, because I didn't know it was possible in this game until very recently. I'll be using this now. I've already used campfires for early heating on Ice Sheet, and to keep greenhouses from freezing.

I would balance earlier/simpler techs by making them have an efficient niche. For example boats in a Civilization-like game might be cheap, but only travel safely within 2 tiles from land. If I want to travel farther, I need to build more expensive ships.
Batteries are a good example of a tech that's not strictly required, but very nice to have at times. You may have several wind turbines, but sometimes they won't work.
In short, I would design simpler/early game techs like this: cheaper, effective but limited in scope. Later techs would add abilities. Electric Smelter is a late tech that unlocks smelting metal from items and slags, but is pointless early and not efficient compared to mining or even buying steel. More stuff like that. Nanobots bought from glitterworld, that let you construct stuff really fast (it constructs itself), but are very expensive and a waste if it's not an emergency. Nanonbot-powered self-cleaning floor, that has a base beauty of +1, cleans itself but requires power. Stuff like that is nice to have, but not a no-brainer because it puts some extra requirements on you. Maybe the self-cleaning floor doesn't work by actually cleaning, but prevents dirt from spawning, meaning you must power it at all times, not just toggle power every few days.

[The-MathMog]

I've used camp fires quite a bit. Mostly when solarflares happen, and I am in a cold biome, and I don't want my devilstrand plants to die from the cold. And secondly, using it early in the game, to avoid using those precious metals, that I need for other things.
Back to topic, I too think there should be more researching in the game, but how much and in what way, I am not sure. As mentioned, some of the technologies should have researches. Maybe not long ones, but just some that makes you evaluate what you need to put resources into. Also adding a minor cost to it, I don't mind either.

[DNK]

I too would like a game with a far more in-depth tech tree and a longer tech tree with "eras" so to speak.

Also a game where investing in research was more complex than "have that one really smart guy do it in 1-2 days". Something that had to be managed because, as you progressed, it required a constant dedication of a significant portion of your colonists to progress.

However, this is pushing in the direction of a management game more akin to a crossover of DF and Civ (ie "BIG" and complex),  while it seems Tynan wants to keep things a bit simpler and more focused on individuals and stories. Both types have their merits and are a *bit* mutually exclusive. I'm glad we have amazing mod support (really outstanding) so we can get both, or at least one or the other at one time here.

[Toggle]

Yeah just repeating this notion, rimworld is a complete mix of ages, from stone age to the future, which is why we can create what we can and research it. Researching would more be using the tables resources to perfect it, as researched items are more complicated then the starting ones (Presumably).