Remove Turrets

[Menuhin]

So with my colonies in A12 I have noticed that due to animals being added, the game is really a lot more reasonable to play without turrets.  I mean I still personally like them and use them.  But remembering Tynan not wanting them in earlier alphas due to several reasons maybe it is now time for them to go the way of the blasting charges.

Mostly I think the game is at a point where they could readily be removed with maybe some small re balances to raids and the game still be reasonable.

[Bob_Namg]

They should cost more to make, sure, but I don't think removing them altogether is that good of an idea. The game is based in the future after all.

[Toggle]

no

[Boston]

Or, keep the turrets, and make them have to be manned, like a modern MG emplacement, instead of autoturrets.

[Menuhin]

The reason to remove turrets really lies with the fact that they help do 2 things in this game which tynan doesn't really want to encourage.  They are really a backbone to kill boxes, and they lower the impact of raids so that your colonists can seldom/never actually have to fight.

Turrets being upgraded, or changed to be modular has been suggested before and are not taken because turrets really weren't supposed to be in the game.  The reason they were left in was similar to when fertilizer pump was getting removed, and why blasting charges were still available.

Turrets work against so many features of this game and its concept.  They change events which should be threats into simply a calculation of profit against the lost resources from a few turrets.  Events should be challenging and threatening, and come with costs which drive the story, and I really just don't think you have that when the event is almost completely negated at the pitifully small cost of some metal.

The goal was to remove turrets, and I think the game is really at a point where that would be reasonable to do.  I'd love to see them removed so future additions to the game can be properly balanced around how the game should be played.

[Kalshion]

No. How a person chooses to play their game is up to them, no one else. If Tyran was to remove turrets, then a modder will just readd them and the majority of people will use that mod, better to just keep the turrets in the game. After all, your colony DOES need other forms of defense, not just your colonists and it would make sense for colonists to eventually developed a kind of automated turret over time.

[FMJ Penguin]

Well they can be modded out if you really wanted.  I rarely use them ether to be honest. I've ended up using only the mod ones that force you to man them and the one that allows mounting any handheld weapon... mainly cuzz it makes sense for pawns that can't shoot for shyt... like using a tripod more or less. But yes, no turrets is.. so much more fun on soo many levels. Not only less blobs coming your way but you get to be a bit strategic in combat when your forced to use only your pawns and whatever they have.

Peeps are too used to having turrets to just plain remove them I think though... be alot to ask folks to swallow imo. But there are always mods man... always...

[astrosoup]

I've thought this myself, when playing, that turrets just don't "fit" the nature of Rimworld. They seem out of place. If turrets that automatically detect the presence of enemies and fire on them can be crafted, why not a whole host of other defenses that would require significantly less technology? They just seemed 'thrown in' for the sake of defending against the raids.

That said, I don't know if the game is ready for their removal. What would we use? Colonists come by too infrequently to afford sending troops into battle every time and besides, I don't mind losing someone to an occasional raid, but I certainly don't want that high of a turnover.

I'm all for turrets being removed, but there should be another way to deal with or avoid raids. Perhaps bunkers that colonists could hide in and shoot from would make sense. Or maybe I could just pay invaders off by offering food or supplies, or even hire some of them (or some neighbors) for protection. This fee could get increasingly burdensome as my wealth grows which then gives me the choice between enduring the raids, or squeezing more work out of my colonists.

As much as the turrets are out of place, so are the unavoidable timed raids from pirates or tribesman. People coming on the map hell bent on killing your colonists every so often gets sort of tiring and annoying when you are busy trying to accomplish other tasks, and it loses its narrative importance each time it happens. They come so regularly that, after a while, Rimworld starts to feel more like a computer program than an interesting story. I am hoping that it is a genre trope that is merely a placeholder for a more interesting late-game challenge schema in the future.. perhaps one that requires me to use the skills of my individual colonists in creative ways, as opposed to simply buying better guns.

[Torkkar]

Or, keep the turrets, and make them have to be manned, like a modern MG emplacement, instead of autoturrets.

Ah you realize North Korea now has Auto Turrets guarding no man's land between them and south Korea right? so Auto turrets are a reality why make them manned when we have the tech today.

Also why add Mortars IF the dev's wanted to remove turrets in the first place?

[b0rsuk]

I don't remember any turrets in Firefly or Dune either.

I'm curious, how do you actually use animals to beat invaders ? I've seen a mechanoid raid succumb do Warg Police, but that was a manhunter pack. How could you possibly beat a tribal raid without turrets ? They still have pretty sick numbers, and destroy plasteel turrets in a matter of seconds if they can get to them.

This game has no reliable way of getting replacement colonists. In Dwarf Fortress, you start with 7 dwarves, migrations are a regular event, and a migration of 10 dwarves is considered "low".

[FMJ Penguin]

Or, keep the turrets, and make them have to be manned, like a modern MG emplacement, instead of autoturrets.

Ah you realize North Korea now has Auto Turrets guarding no man's land between them and south Korea right? so Auto turrets are a reality why make them manned when we have the tech today.

Also why add Mortars IF the dev's wanted to remove turrets in the first place?

It's just a balance thing and it does actually work. With auto-turrets you have unlimited potential. Manned you are still limited by your dudes available to actually run it. Pretty simple after you try it out. Balance is just built right in :) Seriously give it a shot if you haven't you'd be surprised how much it changes things. For the better imo. Although, now I can't even remember which mod has them. Brain fart........

[b0rsuk]

Sounds fair.
Traps need to be reconstructed or rearmed, and invaders start avoiding them. It's just the turrets that can work pretty much forever.

But what would happen to sappers once turrets are gone ? What would be their purpose ?

[FMJ Penguin]

Sounds fair.
Traps need to be reconstructed or rearmed, and invaders start avoiding them. It's just the turrets that can work pretty much forever.

But what would happen to sappers once turrets are gone ? What would be their purpose ?

You saying what would be their purpose in life? Haha..... uh.... I donno man grave robbers, breaking into your base and running off with silver and items, kidnapping all your women...... that's it... that's all I got hahahah

[Songleaves]

I agree with all the above arguments about removing auto turrets. We will ultimately need other defensive structures and strategies to deal with raids though.

Someone suggested bribes. I think this could be easily incorporated by having a message pop up similar to the "Person X is being chased" message, but this message would be "Group X is threatening to raid you if you do not pay Y amount of Silver" and you would have the option to send them the silver or get raided. Alternatively the message could appear in the middle of a raid, with the raiders saying they will leave if bribed.

Additionally more defensive structures will be needed. Something to slow down the hordes of primitives, like digging trenches or using barbed wire, otherwise it's too hard to prevent them from just bum rushing you once they reach a critical mass. Windows that you colonists can shoot from while inside their base could also be a thing. In general I would really like it if we could capture a sort of "seige" feeling where you fight at your outer walls/sandbags until forced to retreat, then fight from your base, until they bust in, and then fight from a deeper "keep" within your base as a last resort.

[Simon_The_Space_Engineer]

I would love to have something like that. Turrets are the only way we can defend our selfs and that gets real boring. Maybe suicide drones or little helicopters with guns