Less Sappers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Britnoth]

Translation: Stop Having Fun.

Sappers have been an obnoxious, overpowered pain in the ass since moment one in this game.

They were a bad idea when he came up with them and they're a bad idea now. People should not be PUNISHED for having a particular play style. (snip)

Translation:

Please stop making the AI even remotely competent. I want to keep using the same tactic over and over every game because the AI is so terrible it can not cope with the most basic of defences.

In fact, I'd prefer it if you just have them walk up to my turrets and stand there until shot to death without any input from me.

I want to feel good about myself for playing on the highest difficulty, but get really upset when this takes any effort whatsoever. I SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED FOR MY PLAYSTYLE.

[Kajin]

Oh, oh! Sappers that carry extra weapons and prioritize the prison! That'd be awesome if they got there and armed the escapees to fight on their side.

[Psyckosama]

Translation: Stop Having Fun.

Sappers have been an obnoxious, overpowered pain in the ass since moment one in this game.

They were a bad idea when he came up with them and they're a bad idea now. People should not be PUNISHED for having a particular play style. (snip)

Translation:

Please stop making the AI even remotely competent. I want to keep using the same tactic over and over every game because the AI is so terrible it can not cope with the most basic of defences.

In fact, I'd prefer it if you just have them walk up to my turrets and stand there until shot to death without any input from me.

I want to feel good about myself for playing on the highest difficulty, but get really upset when this takes any effort whatsoever. I SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED FOR MY PLAYSTYLE.

Bite me, troll.

Competent AI is one thing. Overpowered AI that can laugh off losses between raids because their colonies are ultimately nothing more than a dot on the map, and is easily avoid all defenses while my damned near impossible to replace colonists are always out-numbered and out-gunned by at least 2-1 is another thing entirely.

[akiceabear]

Psyckosama - if you read the full thread you'll have seen that I earlier suggested a more reasonable solution for everyone is a custom story teller which reduces or disables sappers. You seem to think that just because you dislike how this feature impacts your play style that it should be disabled for everyone, including those that find it challenging and fun - and then insulting us for thinking that, too.

In general you should try to propose solutions which punish the least number of players while addressing the complaint. I think my two suggestions do that, while yours just incites a flame war.

[Kajin]

Psyckosama, dude. Sappers aren't much better than regular raids. Plan around them and they become almost no threat. I put extra last ditch effort defenses on the inside of my base and those work just fine against Sappers.

[A Friend]

Hmm, what would someone consider as a "Competent AI"?
Just to see opinions.

[MultiDavid]

Hmm, what would someone consider as a "Competent AI"?
Just to see opinions.

Is strategic, can plan the best spot to attack from, and would attack on multiple fronts, and knows his enemy, acknowledges what turrets do, which colonists have the strongest weapons, which are weak to meele ( sniper rifle ) etc.

[Thorin]

So far I had only one sapper event.

But they went somewhere, where my base wasn't.
Until I got a message, new area revealed!
Those peeps opened up a ancient room and a few mechs said peka-boo and destroyed them and I had the best fun of cleaning up the stragglers.

One of those walls of that ancient room, did indeed end up very close to my main hall. It was indeed the shortest distance into my base.

[Jamini]

My turretless defense really confused the last sapper attack I had. To the point where they ended up killing two of their allies with their own grenades. I was laughing pretty hard while my colonists chucked grenades back at them.

[RoboticManiac]

Out of anything, they need even better AI and some more varied soldiers. Just construct a long power line in front of your base and watch as raids get completely confused as to what they're supposed to be attacking- Turning them into bite-sized fun.

[StorymasterQ]

So far I had only one sapper event.

But they went somewhere, where my base wasn't.
Until I got a message, new area revealed!
Those peeps opened up a ancient room and a few mechs said peka-boo and destroyed them and I had the best fun of cleaning up the stragglers.

One of those walls of that ancient room, did indeed end up very close to my main hall. It was indeed the shortest distance into my base.

That is hilarious

[Britnoth]

Hmm, what would someone consider as a "Competent AI"?
Just to see opinions.

Raiders that are actually geared for their tactics. That would greatly improve raids without even any actual AI changes.


No more siege parties of only half a dozen guys equiped with only pistols. They should all have survival/sniper/assault rifles. Build more sandbags. Maybe build a small room and keep their shells + food inside so you cant set them off in a chain reaction killing half their guys because they are just lying on the floor.

Only raids that paradrop inside your base should be melee only. A personal shield is not enough protection to reach anyone vs massed gunfire, let alone past a bunch of turrets.

No more brawlers with ranged weapons. No careful shooters with grenades, etc. No more awful shivs that do less damage than punching.


Raiders that do not start crossing 10+ squares of sandbags or rubble and being unable to fight back while they get massacred by your fire. If they cannot stop and fire within 5 squares of their location, they should start destroying the sandbags or walls to walk around the obvious killing zone. Or just let people shoot while standing on such cover, but with no cover bonus.

Mechanoids that spawn immediately from ship parts, instead of waiting for you to shoot it to pop them out. Walling ship parts in for various cheesy tactics is just ridiculous.

Hostiles that are damaged should at least attempt to seek the source out, not just stand there getting plinked from long range by a sniper for several days.

Hostiles should not shoot at enemies in personal shields unless they are the only target with a reasonable chance to be hit. Multiply the chance to hit by ~25% for the purpose of choosing the best target vs colonists with shields, to represent them being much harder to hurt.


All enemy types need to have a target that fits their fluff. Natives could just burn your metal structures like solar panels and wind turbines, and steal food or steel (things they lack or cant produce themselves, ie steel to make tools).

While pirates should look to grab prisoners as a matter of urgency: when one colonist is KOed, a single pirate should grab them and start running for the exit, while the rest of the pirates continue their attack to provide cover for the kidnapping. Right now, stopping their attack entirely just to try to kidnap 1 person is actually a huge relief if the battle is going badly.

Mechanoids need to keep scythers from charging forward leaving their centipedes far behind. This just results in 2 easy battles instead of 1 tougher one. Have the scythers stay close to the centipedes providing accurate long range fire (their strength) not leading the charge and getting killed by a few turrets (their weakness). Centipedes seem to lack accuracy, so they should stick to the inferno cannons or perhaps a new heavy grenade launcher, and attempt to target any concentrations of enemy not just the nearest turret.


Overall, you can make the raids a whole lot more dangerous just by making them use the tools they already have, not giving them new ones. Natives have bows that out range your turrets, but often half their guys have crappy stone clubs. Those charge forward into turret fire and die, causing the entire raid to flee before the dangerous bow users have gotten more than a few volleys into the air. Pirates do the same thing; fail to make use of their powerful ranged weapons because half their guys run lemming like to their deaths and then the whole raid makes a run for it.


Ideally:

The whole force fights as a unit. If some of your guys are in range, let them do their thing. Don't get sucked into trying to reach people 50 squares away to stab them with your crappy knife past all those turrets. Stay close to your sniper rifle guys and do your job: protect them from any melee or shorter ranged guys getting close enough to hurt them.

Trying to melee a guy because he is 20 squares away trying to shoot your sniper with his charge rifle is a good plan, running 50+ though massed enemy fire to stab someone with just a pistol is not.

[Jamini]

Update: Most recent sapper attack decided to go in through my bunker emplacement rather than through my serpentine. They blasted through three slate doors, before meeting my five defensive grenadiers, a shotgun, and a minigun to the face. In the end I had one pawn lightly injured by a charge rifle and one who had been winged by a heavy SMG. Neither of whom had lasting injuries.

Properly managed pawns in defense are far, far superior to turrets, and sappers are just as vulnerable to proper explosive management as anyone else.

[quxzcover]

Sappers are annoying as hell yes. but the easiest way around that is use a insanity lance on the grenadiers and they go straight to your door instead of sapping.

[Kajin]

That seems like an incredibly bad waste of resources. Especially when sappers aren't even that bad. Seriously, just plan some inner defensive placements inside your base for when the sappers come so your guys have defensive positions to fight from. It works wonders.