Mood effect need re balancing/re working

[Locklave]

I need to question why many these even exist and more so question the scale of negative as compared to other negative mood effects.

Ate off the ground -4
Observed corpse -4

... Why are these things equal, better yet why is eating off the ground even on the mood effects chart? They both stack too and have the same duration. In fact seeing a many dead bodies has a half stacking multiplier.

Wearing tattered apparel -5
Wearing frayed apparel -3
Naked -3

Explain this. This makes me think these negatives were made in a total vacuum. The clothing quality thing is newer then the naked thing.

A little bit crowded -5
Imprisoned -5

Are you kidding me? Nothing about these things is equal.

Mood effects need a major overhaul. I think quite a few have no place in the game in it's current state and others have overblown effect. Many don't make any logical sense. I also think ones like deaths shouldn't have stacking effects, like if you sister is a part of the colony and dies why are you getting both My brother/sister died and Witnessed ally's death.

The entire Mood system needs re balancing/re working. Please do this before Steam launch.

Edit:
Here's the chart for people interested.
http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Thoughts

[Locklave]

Does no one have anything to say on the matter, not even on the glaring examples I presented?

So everyone that's read this so far is perfectly fine with the current numbers and doesn't think an overhaul is needed.

[Mutineer]

Basically yes. Mood system actually reasonably well done and I do not see mach need in changing it. Your examples are no good. They do not effect game balance and just show that you are very yang.
For example imprisoned  -5. What wrong with it? Instead of trying to survive outside and struggle for life you got feed, protected..
Been imprisoned itself does not effect people that mach, we all have some freedom denied in one form or an other. On other hand if I have sit in cold cell naked with out food that really will piss me off. That mood system does, try not to feed your prisoners..

Penalty for dress? well really are you that mach upset about them when you try to survive? Unless i go to fancy dinner i do not care what I am wearing. Number assigned to each factor does not matter that mach, on other hand if my parka so bad it does not keep me warm i will get really unhappy seems I am bloody cold and i know what to blame.. Ob in addition, i believe - from that depends on number of no good clothes capped at -5.

[Shurp]

Probably you're not getting any responses because people are just used to it.  Of the many things that need fixing this doesn't get much attention.

Or maybe you just have it posted in the wrong forum.  Try "Suggestions".

[ChimpX]

I suspect that the Mood system is more geared towards making interesting and eventful games rather than going for any kind of psychological realism.

That said, the upcoming Alpha is reportedly full of tweaks and rebalancing, so perhaps you will see some changes to Mood too.

Personally I've never let this bother me too much - too busy enjoying the game.

[Jarwy]

Only mood effect I have problems with is related to relationships; more specifically "disfigured". Now that I can't understand (for reasons mentioned many times elsewhere).

[Lady Chaomii]

I created a complete list of mood debuffs in RimWorld by order of severity for people's reading pleasure;



Hungover (Slight) -2
In Darkness -3
Naked -3
Wearing Frayed Apparel -3
Uncomfortable -3
Witnessed Stranger's Death -3
Disturbed Sleep -4
Butchered Humanoid -4
Ate Off the Ground -4
Observed Corpse -4
Hungover (Strong) -5
Cold -5
Hot -5
Pain (Little) -5
Sick -5
A little bit crowded -5
Imprisoned -5
Wearing tattered apparel -5
Joy-deprived -5
Ugly Environment -5
Cramped Environment -5
Feeling Bad -5
Slept Outside -5
Slept on Ground -5
Someone's Organ Harvested -5
My Cousin Died -6
My Grandparent Died -6
My Kin Died -6
Cabin Fever (Mild) -7
Physic Drone (Low) -7
Very Cold -8
Wounded -8
Sharing bedroom -8
Hungry -8
Tired -8
Ate Nutrient Paste -8
A Prisoner Was Sold -8
Someone Was Executed -8
My Half-Sibling Died -8
Hungover (Pounding) -10
Freezing -10
Very Hot -10
Pain (Moderate) -10
Very Joy-Deprived -10
Very Ugly Environment -10
Very Cramped Environment -10
Feeling Terrible -10
My Father/Mother Died -10
My Nephew/Niece Died -10
My Uncle/Aunt Died -10
Colonists Left Unburied -10
Witnessed Ally's Death -10
Very Tired -12
Ate Raw Food -12
My Grandchild Died -13
Extremely Hot -15
Pain (Acute) -15
Cabin Fever (Serious) -15
Urgently Hungry -15
Hideous Environment -15
Physic Drone (Medium) -15
My Brother/Sister Died -15
Bonded Animal Died -15
Cooked Cannibalism -15
Was Imprisoned -15
Burning Up -20
Pain (Shock) -20
Very Crowded -20
Totally Joy-Deprived -20
My Husband/Wife Died -20
My Friend Died -20
Raw Cannibalism -20
Starving -25
Exhausted -25
Psychic Drone (High) -25
My Son/Daughter Died -25
My Fiance/Fiancee Died -25
My Lover Died -25
My Organ Harvested -30
Psychic Drone (Extreme) -50

[milon]

Frankly, I read the subject and went "meh". As others have said, we're used to it, it's not that big of a deal, and this isn't the suggestions board.

Having said that, yeah, they do seem to be weighed strangely. I wonder how much it would affect the game if this was all rebalanced a bit.  If it's not in the new alpha, it would be easy enough to mod.

[b0rsuk]

Did you know "Ate a lavish meal" stacks with "Ate a fine meal" ? Eating lavish + fine is better than eating just lavish.

[Locklave]

Basically yes. Mood system actually reasonably well done and I do not see mach need in changing it. Your examples are no good. They do not effect game balance and just show that you are very yang.
For example imprisoned  -5. What wrong with it? Instead of trying to survive outside and struggle for life you got feed, protected..
Been imprisoned itself does not effect people that mach, we all have some freedom denied in one form or an other. On other hand if I have sit in cold cell naked with out food that really will piss me off. That mood system does, try not to feed your prisoners..

Penalty for dress? well really are you that mach upset about them when you try to survive? Unless i go to fancy dinner i do not care what I am wearing. Number assigned to each factor does not matter that mach, on other hand if my parka so bad it does not keep me warm i will get really unhappy seems I am bloody cold and i know what to blame.. Ob in addition, i believe - from that depends on number of no good clothes capped at -5.

I'm bothered by the scale of one relative to the other. As given in my examples why is being naked equal or preferred to any degree of damaged clothing? You just seem to be taking each one in a vacuum and saying -5 in okay. It's okay relative to what exactly? Maybe reply to my entire post and not just the topic.

Edit your post I have no clue what "just show that you are very yang." means.

No degree of ripped up clothing is worse then being naked for a normal person. Either naked mood effect is under balanced or messed up clothing mood effect is over balanced.

No trip in a crowded elevator is equal to being imprisoned. And don't talk about claustrophobic people because that would be a trait.

As for all the other posts in here think about it. Steam players will bring these issues up because they aren't just used to them. The mood system has grown in every patch yet we've seen no overhaul or reworking of it. The only time Mood system was altered at all was when the fear system was removed. Steam players are going to bring this up.

Leaving in place a messed up mood system because "people are used to it" is the worse reason I've ever heard not to fix something.

[Locklave]

Frankly, I read the subject and went "meh". As others have said, we're used to it, it's not that big of a deal, and this isn't the suggestions board.

Having said that, yeah, they do seem to be weighed strangely. I wonder how much it would affect the game if this was all rebalanced a bit.  If it's not in the new alpha, it would be easy enough to mod.

I'm not suggesting something concrete or fleshed out, I can point out issues but not what solutions would be in terms of number. It felt like it'd be out of place on the suggestion forum. I always feel like things shouldn't be there if they aren't asking for something new or if they don't directly impact balance in a meaningful way. Maybe that's just a personal hangup.

[Cimanyd]

Code Select Expand

  <ThoughtDef>
    <defName>Naked</defName>
    <workerClass>ThoughtWorker_PsychologicallyNude</workerClass>
    <nullifyingTraits>
      <li>Nudist</li>
    </nullifyingTraits>
    <stages>
      <li>
        <label>naked</label>
        <description>I'm naked. This is humiliating.</description>
        <baseMoodEffect>-6</baseMoodEffect>
      </li>
    </stages>
  </ThoughtDef>


It's -6.

This was reported a year ago, on A11, and Tynan said it was fixed then so it was changed in A12 at the latest. The wiki hasn't been updated with that change.

As for the mood system in general, I think ChimpX is right that (from what Tynan says about A14) it's likely the numbers will be somewhat different, which means this kind of complaint should wait until after A14 when we can see what's changed. It's too late for the overhaul you suggest to be in A14 by now anyway; it would be in A15.

[Lady Chaomii]

If I were to tweak one thing, it would be the "Ate Nutrient Paste" debuff. I mean how the hell is eating Nutrient Paste as bad as losing a sibling? I know from personal experience what it's like to have to force something down that tastes of the halitosis of the god of death, and it's not that bad.

I would make it a 4. That way it's still not good, but it's not as bad as getting food poisoning (As apposed to an 8, which is almost twice as bad as food poisoning).

Come to think of it, I've never even built a nutrient paste dispenser because it's expensive, absolutely massive and gives you a massive debuff.

[Tynan]

First comment is, just looking at the mood offset doesn't give the whole picture. Thoughts last different amounts of time as well, which you should factor it.

Also:

I suspect that the Mood system is more geared towards making interesting and eventful games rather than going for any kind of psychological realism.

Bingo.

[Locklave]

First comment is, just looking at the mood offset doesn't give the whole picture. Thoughts last different amounts of time as well, which you should factor it.

Also:

I suspect that the Mood system is more geared towards making interesting and eventful games rather than going for any kind of psychological realism.

Bingo.

I respect the hell outta you and never imagined you'd even read anything here, but I gotta push back on this.

People going crazy and having countless ways to snap doesn't make the game more interesting, I feel like colonists are all angry 16 year old girls that didn't get the gift they wanted for her sweet 16. Events make the game interesting, I've never once in the earlier builds felt that there weren't enough ways for people to snap via mood negatives or that the lack of those made the game less eventful/interesting.

Events make the game interesting, mood effects feel like a tacked on extra to add false drama. I don't mean all mood effects clearly, but many.

Relationships between colonists like/dislike/love/hate, these make the game more interesting because they are more real to me and not just someone flipping out because they ate without a table. The mood effects system in general however makes me feel like I'm fighting with game mechanics.

Survival of a colony on a distant Rimworld constantly under threat of pirate/animal/tribal and mechaniod attack, trying to survive and maybe even grow and thrive. But this room is too dirty/ugly and I woke up in a bad mood so time to flip out. How does that fit the game, why does reality not matter?

/rant

I guess I should just give up on it, I feel like it's gone in a crazy direction since I bought it. I don't think I'll be posting anymore.