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Author Topic: Control over trade caravan position  (Read 8780 times)

faltonico

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 12:11:46 PM »

I can't really complain (yet) because the game is not released (yet), but a lot of people from this community (me included) is depending on mods to fix a lot of bs this game still has, but yet again, i can't complain until the game is released, those matters can be fixed in due time, but I do hope that Tynan listens to the people that do complain (I don't believe that suggestions can be effective, otherwise most of the mods i use would be in the base game already).
I use the trading spot to safeguard my guest from raids and other stuff, but i do know it can be exploited, for instance, i gassed 3 caravans just for the lols xD

The way to fix the exploitability on the trading spot is to make the plopping of said spot to fulfill certain conditions. for instance:
- There should be no treats in a certain radius (turrets, traps, ieds, wild animals etc.) from the spot.
- The location, if enclosed, should have an unblocked exit not ridden with traps and It has to be vented outside.
- Temperature on the spot has to be comfortable for all of the pawns/animals of the caravan.
- There has to be no drugs lying around the spot
- The moment any of those conditions fails to be fulfilled:
*with a caravan already on the spot: They would instantly become aggressive and will try to sap its way out of the map.
*With no caravans on the map: The trading spot will disappear.
- If you can't have a suitable spot to locate said spot, the caravan will fall back to default behavior.
- And many others that i can't really predict -_-'

I can't imagine the work it would take to implement all of that, and it would probably need a lot of conditions more. So, just use the current trading spot mod and solemnly swear to the Rimgods that you wont cheat it.
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DariusWolfe

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2017, 02:34:10 PM »

So, just use the current trading spot mod and solemnly swear to the Rimgods that you wont cheat it.

Aaand this neatly sums up why the feature will not likely make an appearance in Vanilla; In Vanilla, there's this idea that the game should be balanced, and if you *can* take advantage of how the game works, then that's fair. With modding, you're basically choosing the game you want to play, so if you put in a feature that makes the game easier, then that's on you if you use it in that fashion.

Individual modders may choose, of course, to try to make their mod "balanced" or harder to exploit, but that's an individual choice, and simple mods like Caravan Spot and Trading Spot often don't even bother.
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faltonico

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2017, 03:22:21 PM »

So, just use the current trading spot mod and solemnly swear to the Rimgods that you wont cheat it.

Aaand this neatly sums up why the feature will not likely make an appearance in Vanilla; In Vanilla, there's this idea that the game should be balanced, and if you *can* take advantage of how the game works, then that's fair. With modding, you're basically choosing the game you want to play, so if you put in a feature that makes the game easier, then that's on you if you use it in that fashion.

Individual modders may choose, of course, to try to make their mod "balanced" or harder to exploit, but that's an individual choice, and simple mods like Caravan Spot and Trading Spot often don't even bother.
You decided to ignore the rest of the post.
Ok.
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schizmo

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2017, 04:19:01 PM »

Ok but doesn't assaulting a friendly caravan lead to negative goodwill and eventually hatred from other settlements? Doesn't that just lead to more raids? Is that not inherently a counter to "don't exploit this" because all you're really doing is shooting yourself in the foot?
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DariusWolfe

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2017, 04:21:32 PM »

Nope!

It turns out you pretty much always get enough loot to buy your relationship back up via the Comms Console.

Note: I've seen lots of discussion about this 'tactic' but I've never done it myself; I know that there was a recent change that should make this tactic somewhat less attractive, but it didn't make it seem like it was good enough to prevent it; Additionally, if you arrange an "accident", it doesn't cause bad relations with their faction at all.
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schizmo

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2017, 04:32:05 PM »

Nope!

It turns out you pretty much always get enough loot to buy your relationship back up via the Comms Console.

Note: I've seen lots of discussion about this 'tactic' but I've never done it myself; I know that there was a recent change that should make this tactic somewhat less attractive, but it didn't make it seem like it was good enough to prevent it; Additionally, if you arrange an "accident", it doesn't cause bad relations with their faction at all.

Well then before something like this is added to the base game, this type of exploit would definitely need to be addressed.

Perhaps the trade spot should be a single tile that invites only the caravan representative (the one you interact with) into the Home Zone, while the rest of the caravan members/animals remain outside. This prevents ambushing the entire caravan, and if something should happen to the Caravan Rep then the caravan would begin it's assault on your colony from outside

I also think that once goods are purchased, the Caravan Rep should return to the caravan and physically haul the goods to the trade spot, and then it would be the responsibility of the colony to haul purchased items to their respective stockpiles, and to haul silver/sold items to the trade spot for the Caravan Rep to haul back to the caravan. It might take some time if you've purchased a lot of items, but it would be worth it to prevent exploits. The whole instant dropping/vanishing of potentially hundreds of items never quite sat well with me.
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DariusWolfe

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2017, 04:41:52 PM »

The whole instant dropping/vanishing of potentially hundreds of items never quite sat well with me.

Wait, what?

Unless I'm not understanding what you're talking about, you already have to haul all of the purchased items/silver back to your stockpiles. This is the primary utility of the Trader Spot mod for me; I've never had to deal with traders congregating in killboxes, because I don't make killboxes. I just hate having to haul everything from whatever stupid place the game decided to make the traders congregate back to my stockpiles, especially when the items I purchased are perishable. I use Trader Spot to tell them to congregate near my roofed stockpile and front door, so I can more easily haul my purchases back.

Plus, it sort of helps keep them out of my crops and food; Not entirely though, as they sometimes take some really, really cockamamie routes to my trade spot, like going around to my back door and tracking through my whole base to the Trader Spot in the front.
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Sirportalez

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2017, 10:27:22 PM »

They just shouldnt drop their stuff, problem solved. (Lore: It got destroyed while fighting.)
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schizmo

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2017, 10:29:06 PM »

The whole instant dropping/vanishing of potentially hundreds of items never quite sat well with me.

Wait, what?

Unless I'm not understanding what you're talking about, you already have to haul all of the purchased items/silver back to your stockpiles. This is the primary utility of the Trader Spot mod for me; I've never had to deal with traders congregating in killboxes, because I don't make killboxes. I just hate having to haul everything from whatever stupid place the game decided to make the traders congregate back to my stockpiles, especially when the items I purchased are perishable. I use Trader Spot to tell them to congregate near my roofed stockpile and front door, so I can more easily haul my purchases back.

Plus, it sort of helps keep them out of my crops and food; Not entirely though, as they sometimes take some really, really cockamamie routes to my trade spot, like going around to my back door and tracking through my whole base to the Trader Spot in the front.

When you trade with anyone, the items and silver you are selling disappear immediately. That's the part that I was referring to when I said it didn't sit well with me.

With a trading spot, both parties should have to haul their respected items to the trade spot and then exchange them. Since the trade spot will likely be close to a player stockpile (or at centrally located at the very least) the colonists won't have to travel far, but the caravan rep will have to travel back to the caravan to grab their share of items and silver to haul into the colony. Effectively the trade spot is a neutral ground for both parties to bring their items, rather than instantly teleporting player items away and dropping caravan items outside of town.

I suppose you could just dump the spot inside of your stockpile but that seems kinda clumsy to just let a caravan rep wander in your warehouse.

Basically my thoughts for fixing the exploit are to slow the process down and blend the current vanilla caravan mechanics with the concept of a trade spot at the same time, the bulk of the caravan stays outside to prevent abuse, but the one trader you interact with (the one with the question mark) comes into the colony and waits for you at the trading spot. So if a player does try to exploit the spot, at best they will get 1 free kill.
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Jstank

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2017, 11:22:00 PM »

Why not have the caravan, after you make the trade physically walk to your various stockpiles and drop off the stuff they owe you!
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schizmo

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2017, 04:10:08 AM »

Why not have the caravan, after you make the trade physically walk to your various stockpiles and drop off the stuff they owe you!

Cuz that's weird and invasive, it doesn't make sense to allow complete strangers to rummage around in your things. It's bad enough that they sometimes come into your kitchen and eat your food.

Also takes all responsibility off the player, the player should at least have to take SOME responsibility when trading. The idea is to enhance the current mechanic not completely flip it.
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A Friend

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2017, 04:15:16 AM »

The thing is that you'll only be able to pull this off so many times that you'll end up not having anyone visiting to trade anymore.

I say add it in.
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DariusWolfe

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2017, 12:09:23 PM »

A Friend: See above, my comments about the Comm Console exploit. It makes this cheat effectively unlimited, and would need to be dealt with before any of this becomes feasible in Vanilla.

schizmo: I see what you mean, now. It'd be kind of a pain in the ass, but I think it would go a bit toward mitigating the exploitability of the Trader Spot. I think it'd be kind of a bitch to code all of that in tho', so even if Tynan were to take this suggestion, I think it'd be a while before we see it.
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Serenity

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Re: Trading Spot
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2017, 12:39:24 PM »

Perhaps the trade spot should be a single tile that invites only the caravan representative (the one you interact with) into the Home Zone
The issue for me isn't just about needing to walk to the caravan and hauling the stuff in. It's also about the caravans always parking themselves right on your defenses and getting caught in the crossfire when an attack happens
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Griffin

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Issues with Visitors/Traders
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2017, 03:56:02 AM »

Hello Tynan.

First of all let me start out by saying how happy i am, that my character got included in the game. Its so much fun, to keep yourself alive, allthou i wish the stats of the character wouldnt be completly random at all times.

Anyways, one thing ive noticed while putting nearly a 1000 hours into the game, is that when traders and visitors comes from the outside to visit you, they seem to head straigth towards your base. And usually they gather around the kitchen.

For me, who am a really big OCD player, and enjoys to build symmetrical this bothers me ALOT! .. take for instance a colony thats super super tightly squizzed and not alot of room around, this means that every caravan that comes basicly either stands outside the base or rigth within one of the important doors/rooms..

couldnt it be done possible for a player to put down either a building /tradeing post/ or a /tradeing spot/ so that the AI would seek towards that spot/building? .. that way you have the chance to keep them out of harms way, say for instance when a animal decides to go mad, while you have traders around, usually your hunters start shooting, and sometimes accedently hits the caravan people.. witch is rather frustrating.. :/

It should be pretty easy to implement..

Please? :)
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