This is 3000+ years from now and we're still using projectile weapons?

[Bozobub]

Using your own example, the recipe for Greek fire was lost, and in fact has never been duplicated to this day.

By the by, bolters are merely compact, high muzzle velocity, clip-fed, rocket-propelled minigrenade launchers (a clip-fed Gyrojet, in essence); the basic tech already exists in our present day.  Your own example shows how tech actually changes very little, in certain ways.

And no, in 1500 years, we are NOT going to bypass the basic limits of the physics of maximum power density in a power supply, any more than we will be building a perpetual-motion ("over unity") machine.

Again, what you're asking for is in the realm of a mod (and has already been done), not a sweeping change to Vanilla.

[b0rsuk]

What people in this thread want is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction. Throw plausibility out because I want green explosions or red lasers. Science isn't meant to explain or support things, it's meant as a techno-babble to make colorful explosions possible. Next update: spells, renamed to psionic powers.

Charge rifle is shaped like a crossbow stock. That is over 2000 years old. It suggests it still works. Humans in 5500 have the same number of hands and fingers. A crossbow stock is a very stable way to hold an object.

Rimworld is strongly inspired by Firefly. This is what you have problem with. This is not going to change. Firefly WAS basically a space western.

[Mikhail Reign]

Using your own example, the recipe for Greek fire was lost, and in fact has never been duplicated to this day.

While I'll admit its not a perfect example, that just reinforces my point. The gun used in game ARE M16's, M1911 and En-field. We kept the exact same design over 1500 years? It was never lost? Modified? Improved? Even greek fire was eventually semi-recreated in the form of napalm 

By the by, bolters are merely compact, high muzzle velocity, clip-fed, rocket-propelled minigrenade launchers (a clip-fed Gyrojet, in essence); the basic tech already exists in our present day.  Your own example shows how tech actually changes very little, in certain ways.

And no, in 1500 years, we are NOT going to bypass the basic limits of the physics of maximum power density in a power supply, any more than we will be building a perpetual-motion ("over unity") machine.

Did you even read my post? I said that the Bolter is basically a mag fed RPG. I know what they are. My point was the Bolter represents an EVOLUTION of current designs, something that is almost completely absent from Rimworld. The weapons available (aside from the Charge Rifle and a couple of others) aren't evolution, they are the exact weapons we use today.

Also - If you want to use 40K as an example, Ballistic weapons are a rare find. Space Marines (and asso.) are about the only faction that wield them. The reason? Compared to an energy weapon, they are logistical hassle. Guard only have to have recharging stations to which empty flashlight mags are returned to and filled. Marines on the other hand have to have their ammunition shipped in, off world in most cases.

Again - I'm not saying the guns should be 100000 rounds a second laser rifles. They could have the exact same stats as they currently do. I just want them to actually look (and be described) like 1500 years have passed. The guns used in 1845 looked completely different to the guns used in 1945, so why am I using a gun my grandfather would have thought was antiquated?

Rimworld is strongly inspired by Firefly. This is what you have problem with. This is not going to change. Firefly WAS basically a space western.

Huh? What I want is the weaponry from Firefly! I want my 'pistol' to be a "Moses Brothers Self-Defense Engine Frontier Model B". Its EXACTLY what I want. Its a revolver inspired gun, that is also an railgun. It has some western inspired themes (it looks like a Volcano repeater), but it also looks futuristic. It fires a railgun as a primary ammuntion, but switches over to a hammer fired, manually loaded, caseless ammunition once the battery for the railgun is expended.

THAT is what I want. Not lazer pew pew. Something with some flavorsome meat to it.

[CrazyEyes]

I am behind you 100% in that the weapons could use a redesign just so that they're not immediately recognizable as real-world gun models. I don't mind then being called "assault rifle" or "pistol" because that is meant to describe what they do at a glance. It's be neat if they had a more futuristic name in the descriptions though, like "TAR-887" or "Versalite MAG Bolter."

I'm not sure you wouldn't run into a lot of the same problems with personal railguns as you would with energy weapons, though. They at least aren't garbage in the atmosphere and don't generate deadly radiation to kill the user. But you still have problems of power storage (I don't know offhand, and I imagine it's less than a laser, but I'd bet railguns still take a hefty amount of power). Also, the gun can't be too strong or the recoil becomes unmanageable.

[Mikhail Reign]

I'm sure we would run into PLENTY of problems making rail guns. Just as I'm sure when they were making the first ballistic weapons a bunch of people got their hands blown off. Didn't and wont stop us.

Power storage seems like a null issue. Batteries + a power source in the gun. Power armour is powered by something. Whatever powers that, a smaller version charges the mag in my mag gun. Hell I dig up uranium - its not like I have a Nuclear Regulatory Commission looking over my shoulder - make a little reactor for the gun. Before someone says 'size' - reactors today are essentially giant steam engines. I'm sure we will think of a more efficient way to capture that energy in 1500 years. Also, 1500 years of R&D.

If I told someone 300 years ago that I could make it rain, they would have called me liar, or called me a witch. Today we can literally seed clouds.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C Clarke

[Boston]

Also - If you want to use 40K as an example, Ballistic weapons are a rare find. Space Marines (and asso.) are about the only faction that wield them. The reason? Compared to an energy weapon, they are logistical hassle. Guard only have to have recharging stations to which empty flashlight mags are returned to and filled. Marines on the other hand have to have their ammunition shipped in, off world in most cases.

Except WH40k proves the opposite of your point. This is the universe, after all, where there are 21st century firearms alongside blackpowder smoothbores, bows and arrows, slings, laser weapons, plasma weapons, literal Martian Death Rays, and swords alongside not!lightsabers and monomolecular chainsaw axes.

Ballistic Weapons in 40K are not a rare find, actually.  Literally every single Imperial faction uses them, up to and including the Imperial Guard. The Guard actually uses Solid-Projectile weapons a lot. Not to mention the Xeno-factions that use Solid-Projectile weapons, which is all of them. Shuriken weapons? Solid Projectile. Pulse Rifle? Solid Projectile.

For example, the "Heavy Stubber", aka the heavy support weapon used on almost every single IG vehicle and by almost every single Heavy Weapons Platoon?

A fucking M2 Browning HMG. Literally unchanged for 38,000 years.

The main cannon on Leman Russ MBTs? 120mm cannon.

Basilisk and Earthshaker artillery pieces? 132mm cannon.

Not to mention the absolute ass-ton of Solid-Projectile firearms stockpiled for governmental, military, civilian and Inquisitorial use.

Why? Because they fucking work. Despite the existence of "laser guns" (which, all evidence to the contrary, probably aren't lasers, since they don't suck balls in atmosphere. I've got money on particle projectors, but that is just me), a bullet to the head is still a bullet to the head.

Amusingly, in the TTRPG's, outside of logistics, an autoweapon is probably going to be more effective, combat-wise, than a lasweapon, due to different ammunition types that can be loaded. With the changing of a magazine, you can change your autorifle from a boring not!AK-47 to a shotgun, than to a goddamn wannabe Bolter.

[SpaceDorf]

132mm ? thats 23mm less than todays standard of 155mm for the big guns

And the design of the Abrams is now nearly 50 years old.

Soldiers don't like flashy weapons. Soldiers like weapons that work, are easy to use and easy to fix.
Generals like those kind of weapons because it decreases training time, accidents and logistics.

The technological research is no longer focussed on better weapons, than on better equipment.
Night Vision, Light and Flexible Armor, Communication Systems and Targeting Systems

[Mikhail Reign]

<snip>

Way to side step the point, AGAIN. The point is that a Bolter doesn't look like a AK-47, not that it doesn't use a ballistic propelled round. Also, the fluff on Lazguns has them with a variable load. You can overcharge it for a powerful shot that quickly depletes the batteries, or put it down low for a less lethal, energy conserving shot. LazCannons, Lazpistol and even Multi-lazers all use the same ammo. Seems to me that having a generic ammuntion which could be fired by any type of gun, in a range of different ways, would be heaps better then a gun that could fires heaps of ammos types.

Also I think you brought up another awesome point. Its 40K. Completely unrelated. But you DID hit my point right on the head. 40K has a MASSIVE range of weaponry, almost all of it directly inspired by some real thing, none of it looks like it was gotten off a shelf today. Leman Russ are this cool blend of WWI tanks crossed with cartoons from the future. Valkyrie's are futuristic parody of UH-1's. Even the ubiquitous sword gets an reskin to a CHAINsword. Ifs the standard Space Marine melee weapon was obviously a cutlass, and the Imperial Guard drove M1 Abrams, I would be having the same argument there.

So with everyone screaming black and blue that we are now literally at the very pinnacle of weapons development, whats your opinion on the HELLADS? Or that we project that we will be 'perfecting' railgun technology around 2025? Hell - whats your opinion on something are pie in the sky as DREAD? How about Metalstorm (know they went defunt a couple of years back, but they sold a lot of patents before hand)? MAHEM?

The technological research is no longer focussed on better weapons, than on better equipment.
Night Vision, Light and Flexible Armor, Communication Systems and Targeting Systems

We designed all those things during WWII, all of which look nothing like their original design.

Soldiers don't like flashy weapons. Soldiers like weapons that work, are easy to use and easy to fix.
Generals like those kind of weapons because it decreases training time, accidents and logistics.

Using that logic, we never should have moved from Pikes to Rifles. Your not looking a millennia and a half into the future. Just because its 'crazy new technology' NOW, doesnt mean it will be in 1500 years. At one point BOWS were the new fangled weapon. So were guns. So will be whatever we use next.

Its fucking CHILDISH to think that what we have made cant be improved.

[SpaceDorf]

@mikhail reign

first, I am sorry. I get your point that we don't know what the future will bring,
and I am the first to admit I love spacey explody stuff and would love some weird
Science Fantasy stuff in Rimworld.

But to back up my point.
Bows were not replaced by Crossbows and then Muskets because Muskets where better in the beginning, but they were easier to use and supply.

A bow looks easy in its use but to achieve accuracy and more important the ability to fire a sustained volley needs a lot of training ( 6-8 arrows per minute for french and british archers takes a lot of upper body strength )
The point and pull trigger technique of the crossbow stock are a lot easier to learn and implement under fire.
It took quite a while until firearms were as accurate and reliable as bows, but still, losing a kadet with six weeks of gun training under his belt is a lot cheaper than losing an archer with years of training.

Fletching and Transporting Arrows is a logistic and cost problem. It is much easier to transport barrels of gunpowder and bags of lead balls.
A box of modern bullets is even easier to transport.

So I stand by my childish point. Because my point did never say, there can't and won't be improvements.

My point is you have to be able to teach a locker room full of b-grade ball players, ghetto escapees, redneck idiots and flag wankers to shoot and maintain this tool under every bad condition you can think of while trusting them not to kill each other in the process. Because those are the lot of people you end up with in basic infantry.


To actually give you something in favor of your point

@everyone
Personal Shields are allready there,SkyNet has Armored Robot Snails, and when you dig to deep you get eaten by bugs,
Starship Generators that run forever on nothing.

What I want is this to be within reason and the feel of the game.
I don't like all of the weapon mods that add hundreds of the same weapons with different names into the game, thats bull in my oppinion.
I want weapons with different gameplay effects and the rock paper scissor principle that starcraft embraces.
And I think the best match for this feeling would be the cobbled together arsenal of the fallout games. Part Tribe, Part Scrounged Together Scrap Launcher, Part Space Marine with giant boomstick.
So screw science and go with your gut.

But if anybody tries to argue that with !!SCIENCE!! and the "we won't know" argument, real hard science will be used against that. Sorry.

[hunter2012]

Why? Because they fucking work. Despite the existence of "laser guns" (which, all evidence to the contrary, probably aren't lasers, since they don't suck balls in atmosphere. I've got money on particle projectors, but that is just me), a bullet to the head is still a bullet to the head.

Lazguns just suck balls every where

[SpaceDorf]

Why? Because they fucking work. Despite the existence of "laser guns" (which, all evidence to the contrary, probably aren't lasers, since they don't suck balls in atmosphere. I've got money on particle projectors, but that is just me), a bullet to the head is still a bullet to the head.

Lazguns just suck balls every where

And that is why it is so popular ..

[NagaPrince]

You know, I don't see why chemical-based projectile weapons are an issue, when the Rimworld universe has theoretically hundreds or thousands of Human-seeded planets at varying technological levels. So what? I expected more vanilla weaponry, like plasma rifles, energy-pistols, plasma-throwers, etc.

Now my only problem is: Why are all the chemical-based weapons in this game, essentially the same 20th century Earth weapons we have now? That doesn't make much logical sense. An AR-15 and an AK-47 should be preposterously rare pieces of equipment several thousand years in the future. They should be in the game, but an LMG that is from WW2/WW1 (Can't remember that one's name) just shouldn't exist by then. Similar criticism towards the melee weapons in this game. They're chiefly Medieval European and Roman constructs. But what if my Rimworld culturally followed the path similar to ancient Thracian's, Celts, Tang Dynasty, and patterned similar weapons in concept, like Falx, or Falcatas? I wouldn't go that far into that argument though.

The artwork looks amazing in its unique style, but I was surprised to see an "M16" in the year 5,000AD in common usage. I was expecting made-up Rimworld weapons designs that look like they're industrial and informational age era systems.

Honestly, I was expecting an AK-47 somewhere than the M16 , but it seems this game was made by an American such as myself, similar to how Tolkien's LoTR is. The ocean is always on the western side of the map (Atlantic), the southerners are always dark-skinned and malevolent (Arab's, Africans, etc).

[SpaceDorf]

The russian AK-47, the american A14 and the german G3 were basically the same rifle.
Clip fed, recoil loaded, 7.62mm rifles, the russian 7.62x54 is a bit longer than the nato 7.62x51
thats it .. so yes the standard assault rifle just looks like that.

LMG means Light Machine Gun and is not a bound to a time.
There are also MMG's and HMG's, medium and heavy MG's

You might have confused it with the Browning 1918 which was the american LMG of WW1 and 2
or the MG 08/15 or MG 34 of the German Army.
Both Designs are with some modifications to ammunition types nearly unchanged in use today.

Concerning Melee, rename the gladius to short sword and be done with it.

Maybe we should back down from nitpicking and say something more constructive ..

What Types of Weapons would you like to see in Rimworld ?

I for one really like the WH40k Terran Style Weapons, clunky, sturdy, different kinds of blam, pew and boom for futuristic stuff.
The Fallout New Vegas Arsenal for the Post-Apocalyptic Western Survival feeling combined with the first gen X-Com Arsenal of Weird 50's Sci-Fi Stuff.

On top of that I want to add Half-Life 1 Bio-Engineered Weapons, that Beelauncher and that thing you feed the exploding apples or whatever it was ..

[Boston]

Lazguns just suck balls every where

Except they don't. Not really. They have the same killing potential as a ballistic firearm, in a package that requires logistics little more in-depth than working electricity or working heating, which, in a pinch, can be sunlight

Lasguns are insanely effective, they just kinda fall flat compared to Boltguns and Xenoweaponry. 

In the Dark Heresy TTG, I would use Lasweaponry as my "walking around" firearm, then use an Autorifle with various ammunition for specific missions. Does that means the Lasrifle "sucked"? Hell no.

[Boston]

Way to side step the point, AGAIN. The point is that a Bolter doesn't look like a AK-47, not that it doesn't use a ballistic propelled round. Also, the fluff on Lazguns has them with a variable load. You can overcharge it for a powerful shot that quickly depletes the batteries, or put it down low for a less lethal, energy conserving shot. LazCannons, Lazpistol and even Multi-lazers all use the same ammo. Seems to me that having a generic ammuntion which could be fired by any type of gun, in a range of different ways, would be heaps better then a gun that could fires heaps of ammos types.

Also I think you brought up another awesome point. Its 40K. Completely unrelated. But you DID hit my point right on the head. 40K has a MASSIVE range of weaponry, almost all of it directly inspired by some real thing, none of it looks like it was gotten off a shelf today. Leman Russ are this cool blend of WWI tanks crossed with cartoons from the future. Valkyrie's are futuristic parody of UH-1's. Even the ubiquitous sword gets an reskin to a CHAINsword. Ifs the standard Space Marine melee weapon was obviously a cutlass, and the Imperial Guard drove M1 Abrams, I would be having the same argument there.

Pal ....... you do realize that "Modern day" weaponry is still in use in WH40k, right? Not "modern day themed" weaponry, but stuff you could go grab off a shelf at a gun store?

Go take a look at an Autorifle, Autopistol, Stub Automatic, Stub Revolver. The Autorifle is pretty much a clone of an M16. The autopistol, a MAC10. Oh, and about chainswords?

they still have regular swords. Fucking Astartes use them, read some of the fiction sometime. Hell, in one book, some Astartes drive off an Ork horde using a Greek Phalanx with BRONZE SPEARS.

Your general argument is "why are they using modern firearms so far in the future?"

Our argument is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." People in WH40k, and in Rimworld, use modern-designed firearms because, well, the design works.

If it ain't broke.......