Capturing and selling young female pawns to slavers at very high price?

[Rimrue]

There's nothing intrinsically more valuable about female pawns than male pawns in this game. So unless you are some pervy creep who wants to roleplay it really adds nothing.

I do agree that slave value could be better balanced. I play tribal a lot so end up selling more than a few slaves and find it odd that an almost 60 yr old pawn would be worth more than a 20 yr old just because they have better skills. A young unskilled pawn with several passions and no incapabilities is worth gold to me. They train up fast enough.

I do like the idea of the pawn's beauty (or lack thereof) affecting price too. Attractive pawns generally find a partner. Happy couples make for happy colonies. Lol

But making young females more valuable, as mentioned upthread, "because vagina" makes no sense. Then hot young guys should be worth more for exactly the same reason. "Because penis."

[O Negative]

A price discrepancy exists between an old man and a healthy young woman.
I just generated a bunch of each in-game and averaged out their market values.

Old woman/man: 784
Young man/woman: 1050
Difference: ~25%

I would argue in favor of a larger gap in price between the two. The market value of (any) human pawn should be increased, and the health problems associated with old age should have a greater toll on how much a person is worth.

The thing about this, right, is that you can't use sex (verb) as an argument here. You can't say that any of the factions, not even your own, would be willing to pay more "because vagina." Why? Because sex between pawns only ever happens when it's consensual in this game. Who's to even say slave traders are interested in women? What happens when you run into a trade caravan full of homosexual males? (Hypothetical, rare, obviously) lol

I also like Rimrue's argument

[Boston]

There's nothing intrinsically more valuable about female pawns than male pawns in this game. So unless you are some pervy creep who wants to roleplay it really adds nothing.

I do agree that slave value could be better balanced. I play tribal a lot so end up selling more than a few slaves and find it odd that an almost 60 yr old pawn would be worth more than a 20 yr old just because they have better skills. A young unskilled pawn with several passions and no incapabilities is worth gold to me. They train up fast enough.

I do like the idea of the pawn's beauty (or lack thereof) affecting price too. Attractive pawns generally find a partner. Happy couples make for happy colonies. Lol

But making young females more valuable, as mentioned upthread, "because vagina" makes no sense. Then hot young guys should be worth more for exactly the same reason. "Because penis."

IN the real-world pre-Civil War South, slaves with applicable skills were worth far, FAR, FAR more than the general work-slaves.

You could buy a "general-purpose" (aka unskilled farm laborer) slave for a couple hundred bucks. Someone with a valuable skill, like a blacksmith or a carpenter, could go for upwards of a couple thousand.

And that is in 1840s money.

[Rimrue]

IN the real-world pre-Civil War South, slaves with applicable skills were worth far, FAR, FAR more than the general work-slaves.

You could buy a "general-purpose" (aka unskilled farm laborer) slave for a couple hundred bucks. Someone with a valuable skill, like a blacksmith or a carpenter, could go for upwards of a couple thousand.

And that is in 1840s money.

I'm not saying skilled pawns shouldn't be more valuable, but in Rimworld, the skilled pawns generally come with a set of undesirable qualities. They're often old, and therefore have health issues, have bad traits, or they've got a bunch of incapabilities. Having traded a fair number of slaves, I can tell you, I'd rather have the unskilled pawn that has no bad traits, health issues, or incapabilities. As I said, they train up quick enough. Lol

[mumblemumble]

Its an interesting idea, but if women should be sold off in slavery at a higher price due to sexual appeal, I feel more factors should be involved. Like how many times one has "made love" in life, scars, and other factors : because yes, young women can fetch a huge price, but factors like body aesthetics, if they are a virgin (or at least not completely "ruined), sexual health, and race all play factors

Its not a pretty subject, but these are the factors which influence say, the isis sex trade.

Also find it hysterical people are ok with cannibalism, amputation of peoples limbs for kicks, getting people forcibly addicted to crack, and infecting them with the cyber equivalent of aids (luciferium) and sending them back to their settlement for a horrible death, and even selling slaves....but if the prices are semi realistic?! Thats TOO FAR DAMMIT!

...Course it seems people simply don't want any differences between men and women, short of the body shape. Its almost like differences in the sexes is a holy grail which cannot be touched, or people get offended

Okay, aside from realism, what else does it add

Economic opportunity for raider scum, invitation to focus on differences in gender (it would be an opening into it at least), possibility for raiders to target colonists based on gender making battle a little different, ect...

I would argue this is part of a greater issue of having differences between the sexes : something which effectively doesn't exist right now : infact tynan could remove sexes in v18, and besides psychic events, romance, and "hates men / women", the game would be unaffected since thats pretty much the extent of the differences, and I for the life of me see no reason why the sexes SHOULD NOT be elaborated on, just because a few people feel uncomfortable.

Also, since someone said the sex trade being common is why we can't add this : if making human skin coats became common, would tynan have to patch it out? What about murder? murder is more common than sex trafficking, but is allowed...what gives?

[Harold3456]

Also, since someone said the sex trade being common is why we can't add this : if making human skin coats became common, would tynan have to patch it out? What about murder? murder is more common than sex trafficking, but is allowed...what gives?

I want to start by saying I come back to this website after about 4 days and it's THIS thread that's still on the front page lol. This struck me as some crack idea that somebody decided to make a fun thread about, and then it became a debate somehow.

The argument "because it happens too often in real life" isn't a good one for this game because, yes, you can go full Donner party with a colony of cannibals and make a fortune selling human meat (which is, for some reason, very valuable to traders) and human leather coats.

The better argument is that it.... just doesn't add gameplay value. As others have said, nonconsensual sex doesn't occur in this game, so the only way to make selling young women as slaves intuitive to a player is to allow a player to also BUY sex slaves. Otherwise it's nothing more than an Easter egg. So unless you want the +30 moodlet "Pleasured by sex slave" for your own colonists (which would require a total morality overhaul, given that these guys still feel guilty for executing guilty prisoners) it would never fit in.

Upon further reading, this thread seems to have collected the "anti-PC" crowd, which is odd because opposition to this idea isn't due to political correctness, but rather to how little it would add to gameplay/immersion. Do you really feel pulled out of the realism of this game because a young female pawn isn't pulling in a rape-worthy price?

[Monoxide3009]

I can agree.  I have a hard time no helping someone, but when they add nothing to the community, I also hard a hard time allowing them to stay...

Oh... I want to heal you... but, ohhh... You suck for skills...

Let me being a decent person and help them survive a crash... But then let them fend for themselves.

[vampiresoap]

Its an interesting idea, but if women should be sold off in slavery at a higher price due to sexual appeal, I feel more factors should be involved. Like how many times one has "made love" in life, scars, and other factors : because yes, young women can fetch a huge price, but factors like body aesthetics, if they are a virgin (or at least not completely "ruined), sexual health, and race all play factors

Its not a pretty subject, but these are the factors which influence say, the isis sex trade.

Also find it hysterical people are ok with cannibalism, amputation of peoples limbs for kicks, getting people forcibly addicted to crack, and infecting them with the cyber equivalent of aids (luciferium) and sending them back to their settlement for a horrible death, and even selling slaves....but if the prices are semi realistic?! Thats TOO FAR DAMMIT!

...Course it seems people simply don't want any differences between men and women, short of the body shape. Its almost like differences in the sexes is a holy grail which cannot be touched, or people get offended

Okay, aside from realism, what else does it add

Economic opportunity for raider scum, invitation to focus on differences in gender (it would be an opening into it at least), possibility for raiders to target colonists based on gender making battle a little different, ect...

I would argue this is part of a greater issue of having differences between the sexes : something which effectively doesn't exist right now : infact tynan could remove sexes in v18, and besides psychic events, romance, and "hates men / women", the game would be unaffected since thats pretty much the extent of the differences, and I for the life of me see no reason why the sexes SHOULD NOT be elaborated on, just because a few people feel uncomfortable.

Also, since someone said the sex trade being common is why we can't add this : if making human skin coats became common, would tynan have to patch it out? What about murder? murder is more common than sex trafficking, but is allowed...what gives?

haha your post really speaks volumes If you wanna make it so that there's no difference between the sexes in a game, then why did you even add the sexes in the first place? Why not just make every pawn unisex? Well, it's because that's bullshit. Men and women are different. Gender is binary. We all know it and I'm just sick of everybody living in the fantasy land of make-believe "gender spectrums". I'm also sick of game developers or entertainment in general kowtowing to this idiotic trend.

[mumblemumble]

The argument "because it happens too often in real life" isn't a good one for this game

Upon further reading, this thread seems to have collected the "anti-PC" crowd, which is odd because opposition to this idea isn't due to political correctness

Its not JUST that it happens in real life, its that it would add something to make men and women more than just a skin change. I agree this is a small change in a lot of ways, but its part of a bigger argument : defining men and women. Currently men and women are nothing special either way.

As for PC : did you read the thread? Several people were saying this would be offensive.

And its less the "rape worthy price", and more than men and women have 0 differences in practice, besides romance rates, so yes, I support any idea making it a bit different. Long as it makes some form of sense

Also nobody explained why sex slavery is bad, and murder / violence is not.

haha your post really speaks volumes If you wanna make it so that there's no difference between the sexes in a game, then why did you even add the sexes in the first place? Why not just make every pawn unisex? Well, it's because that's bullshit. Men and women are different. Gender is binary. We all know it and I'm just sick of everybody living in the fantasy land of make-believe "gender spectrums". I'm also sick of game developers or entertainment in general kowtowing to this idiotic trend.

They include sex, because frankly listing them as colonist a, colonist b, and not having the sex would be weird : outside of aesthetics (name, body shape) theres no mechanical differences outside the 2 very subtle ones I mentioned : which are seldom even noticed. I suppose tynan included sex as a stat because it would be WEIRD to have the name randomizer and body randomizer not match : imagine a delicate girly body named bubba, or a hulk of a dude named cynthia : yeah, not sure those names are in the game, but it would ruin immersion : this is why the male and female thing are there IMO, and the romance / psychic wave things were added on...but like I said, THATS IT, theres no other factors beyond that, that is THE full extent to the differences in the sexes. All games have this, and have no differences in sex besides that : xcom enemy unknown for instance, has the 2 sexes, but has no other differences besides model and voice.

But thats the thing : men and women are far more different than that, and you know it : but can you list a single difference outside the things above? Outside aesthetics (name, model) romance rates (might never even be encountered) and psychic waves (a coin flip)?

Its like saying the races in rimworld are different because THEY are included : sure they exist, but they have 0 tangible differences that I'm aware of, outside the fact its noticeable via skin color.

I can appreciate how you view the gender thing, but then I hope you would keep this in mind : in other games its less of a bother, but getting a deeper simulation game, its rather aggravating when such an obvious factor is entirely ignored. If rimworld is such a deep simulation, differences in sex SOMEWHERE should be shown besides those few things.

[cultist]

I haven't really done any slave trading (as stated, not really profitable) in A16, but I'm sure earlier alphas had a big difference in sell price based on age, health and skillset. If that's no longer a thing, it should be. It adds the needed elements to make slave trading profitable without offending anyone.

Besides, slavery isn't the same as sex trafficking. It's not necessarily the same buyers, and a culture might hypothetically allow slavery but also have a strong taboo against rape. Or vice versa.

[mumblemumble]

Whats exactly the problem with offending people? it happened with drugs being added, rimworld didn't shut down. Also happened with the whole romance code examination, and again, didn't shut down.

Also, sex trafficking is a type of slavery, and frankly theres no tracking in what type of slavery a pawn is sold into : it seems to me it could be anything from sex trafficking, to mercenary work, to hard labor, to being an meatsack to do horrific experiments on. Only difference is this change would be an indicator for "yes, this person IS being sold for sex"

a strong taboo against rape

You aren't talking about pirates, or slavers in general are you?...highly doubt they would give a damn.

[cultist]

Whats exactly the problem with offending people? it happened with drugs being added, rimworld didn't shut down. Also happened with the whole romance code examination, and again, didn't shut down.

And therefore we need to increase the controversy factor further? Why? What is the point of edging ever closer to some feature or element that will eventually cause real controversy and not just a bit of bad press? I don't get this point of view.

[mumblemumble]

But whos the judge of what a "REAL" controversy is? Some would argue drugs were, some would argue the romance rates were, some would say cannibalism is. Rimworld is no stranger to attrocities and horrible sickening events, just ones which have anything to do with the sexes : I feel more could be added to the game with some differences to the sexes, and would even add to storytelling.

Its a relativistic factor, and you are in essence saying "we should not add anything more controversial ever, because next time we won't be so lucky". Or am I misunderstanding?

[cultist]

Its a relativistic factor, and you are in essence saying "we should not add anything more controversial ever, because next time we won't be so lucky". Or am I misunderstanding?

I'm saying the game has already ticked multiple boxes of potential controversy. If you just keep piling it on with the attitude that no matter what, anyone offended is a crybaby, you're essentially just trying to run the project off the tracks so you can have massive outrage for its own sake.

[Perq]

And therefore we need to increase the controversy factor further? Why? What is the point of edging ever closer to some feature or element that will eventually cause real controversy and not just a bit of bad press? I don't get this point of view.

Why not? Controversy nets popularity. It might be dirty way of doing things, but it works. And really, how is it different than other controversial things that are in the game?

I wonder, why people get so emotional about anything being close to rape, while nobody gives a second look to things like harvesting organs?
Not even talking about killing people or being able to drug someone to death. Or sever his limbs and then intoxicate him with hard drugs. And when he dies feed him to the dogs.

And again bunch of people suggesting that anyone who sees nothing exceptional about this suggestion must be some kind of creep/psycho or whatnot. People, this only tells a lot about merit of your arguments... :@

EDIT: I'd love to also remind you that there are people out there who'd call you psychos because you play violent games (like RimWorld). And that violent games make you violent.