Raids way harder in Alpha 17?

lt_halle · July 17, 2017, 05:48:23 AM

I've been gone since A16 and came back to try out the new patch. I've played on Cassandra Intense for a long time now and have never had any problem surviving raids, even without things like spamming turrets. On my most recent save I tried having a more free-form colony without a real wall, instead building bunker outposts dotted around the perimeter of my base for colonists to shoot from. It's Fall of the first year right now and I have a grand total of 5 colonists, one of whom is incapable of violence. I have the starting rifle and pistol and a couple crappy gladius/knives for melee. A bulk goods caravan was visiting and a raid ended up arriving while they were on the map, and the raid was huge! It was at least 12 pawns, all armed with decent weapons like hunting rifles and LMGs, and even the faction leader. Of course, the caravan ended up leaving just as they showed up, so I had no help and got subsequently massacred.

Hm, I thought, they must be sending so many because of the caravan being there. I reloaded the save and a raid didn't appear until the caravan left. A few days after, the raid does show up (drop pods this time instead of walking in) and once again has 12+ pawns with good gear in it. I reloaded a few more times and the raids were always this big. Even with a well-constructed killbox I doubt I would be able to do ANYTHING about this many raiders on such a young colony and only four fighters. The colony didn't even have a particularly large amount of wealth, so that wasn't responsible for the massive influx of attackers either. Am I doing something horribly wrong, or is a killbox and spamming death-globs of turrets basically the only way to survive on Intense+ difficulty?

Lowkey1987 · July 17, 2017, 05:52:33 AM

Did you produce many products or mine plasteel? Raid a trader? Something which spikes your wealth?

Ps: Please use enter sometimes against wall of words.

lt_halle · July 17, 2017, 06:03:24 AM

Quote from: Lowkey1987 on July 17, 2017, 05:52:33 AM
Did you produce many products or mine plasteel? Raid a trader? Something which spikes your wealth?

Ps: Please use enter sometimes against wall of words.

Sorry it's 3 am and I'm a bit bleary eyed. I added a break.

My colony wealth is pitiful. All my colonists still have the "extremely low expectations" mood buff which I think is affected by wealth. I've made a few wooden sculptures and maybe ten pieces of clothing, and that's about it for industry. I'm using Psychology and EPOE as the only major mods too, so I don't think it's a mod affecting anything.

Mehni · July 17, 2017, 06:56:20 AM

Something is weird with the raid size in A17. I've definitely noticed a sudden bump in number of pirate raiders around the fourth or fifth raid. They bring the worst gear possible, so they're not much harder to fight off than tribals. It's often 5 vs 12 or so on extreme.

Strangely though, after overcoming those odds the number of pirate raiders seem to stay fairly consistent. After that they mostly scale up in equipment.

tyriaelsoban · July 17, 2017, 07:01:27 AM

Quote from: Mehni on July 17, 2017, 06:56:20 AM
It's often 5 vs 12 or so on extreme.

I got that on rough and they all had personal shields ... >.>

Wanderer_joins · July 17, 2017, 02:32:44 PM

Quote from: lt_halle on July 17, 2017, 05:48:23 AM
It's Fall of the first year right now and I have a grand total of 5 colonists

I've been browsing through screenshots of A16, and man it was hardcore. Here on a poor sea ice colony: http://imgur.com/qN2JOq4, with one guy unable of violence, there was also a 10 vs 3 end of year one, had to save scum to get over the bump of end of year one. Will try a perma sea ice game in A17 but i think it's easier.

There is maybe something with the first raids, but then i don't think it's harder, maybe to help us for quests.

Shurp · July 17, 2017, 06:58:14 PM

I have the same problem with A17 raids. And they're very inconsistent. One raid will be a *single* scyther, nothing else. Then an Infestation strikes and I'm getting attacked by half a dozen megaspiders. And this is on "rough" with 7 colonists and a pretty poor colony.

I could survive "extreme" only with extensive turret turtling, and then a siege showed up before I had mortars and I was screwed.

That said... I'm not actually complaining. A16 actually felt a bit too *easy*. Intense and Extreme *should* be overwhelming to veteran players. But I worry that the increased difficulty might scare away new players?

Snafu_RW · July 17, 2017, 07:36:54 PM

Shurp, which storyteller are you using?

lt_halle · July 17, 2017, 08:42:38 PM

UPDATE: I finally managed to repel the raid after the umpteenth reload. Upon closer inspection they had good guns but in poor condition, but they also all had lots of shooting stat. The only reason I won was because most of them sat there lighting my base on fire in the rain or punching my solar panels while I could pick off two or three in a stream and actual make use of melee combat. Even still, I only had a single heavily wounded colonist up at the end. Another raid with a few more guys or better equipment (grenades, for example, would have probably spelled the end for me) would completely decimate me, and there's no way I would have survived on a permadeath colony.

On a side note, maybe the Wimp trait needs to be tuned down a bit. I'm all for them falling unconscious sooner, but my best shooter has the trait and she literally went into shock from getting punched one time in the torso. This leads me to believe that anyone with the wimp trait is practically worthless in combat, unless you can find a way to keep them way out of harms way.

Shurp · July 18, 2017, 06:30:06 PM

Your best shooter should have a gun with a long range and should run before anyone gets close enough to punch her.

Shurp · July 18, 2017, 07:46:05 PM

OK, well this is just annoying.

My 7 colonists armed with assault rifles and LMGs got assaulted by 10 tribals. When I employ my classic killbox -- a 25 square long and 15 square wide box, with walls and sandbags at my end for cover for my colonists -- the tribals spread out, my colonists can't hit, and the tribals quickly leap over the sandbags and beat my colonists to death.

But if my colonists stand out in the open all huddled in a cluster, the tribals line up, charge straight into the hail of bullets, and all drop before they can reach them.

I'm playing on Cassandra Rough... and I've clearly reached the limit of what my colonists can do with straight offensive firepower, at only 32,000 colony wealth. Yes, I could fortify my killbox with traps and such but then the AI will just send sappers to work around them, or siegers to lob mortar rounds at me...

Hmmm, I guess my complaint is just that it's impossible to win a stand-up fight in Rimworld, and I'm tired of trying to employ clever micromanaging battle tactics.