Rushing Turrets Or Infrastructure?

Started by TheManWithoutAPlan, September 18, 2017, 10:40:02 AM

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TheManWithoutAPlan

Alright, I just bought Rim world two days ago and already I seem to have an issue.
1 - Do I rush Turrets first
or
2 - Do I work on my Colony's infrastructure.

b0rsuk


AltarusTheTraveler

Personally I've never found raids deadly enough early on to justify rushing turrets, especially on lower difficulties.

SpaceDorf

#3
Infrastructure.

Healthy and Happy Colonists fight way better than any turret ever could.


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FIXED .-. ::)
Maxim 1   : Pillage, then burn
Maxim 37 : There is no overkill. There is only open fire and reload.
Rule 34 of Rimworld :There is a mod for that.
Avatar Made by Chickenplucker

Sola

Quote from: SpaceDorf on September 18, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Ifrastructure.

Healthy and Happy Colonists fight way better than any turret ever could.
QFT
Two tiers of construction jobs.  One for expensive/quality items, and one for walls/floors/etc.

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=28669.0

ColonistGirl

Early on you definitely want to work on infrastructure. The first few raids that will pop up are really easy to deal with, generally. A few well-positioned rocks, using trees for cover, walls, etc, are enough to fend them off with minimal damage. Even a single turret is a pretty big investment early on, as you have to have a lot of spare power, materials, and such.

patoka

that would be indeed a rush for towers...and you cant pull it off if you start with 5 bush men, even with the additional work force

i have found early fights to be easy. as long as you have either 2 good archers, or one decent gunner (depending on your scenario) you'll be able to cope with most attacks quite easily. you might need to get used to this game's combat system, but i believe with good positioning, correct choice of weapon, some timing and a basic understanding of the ai you can get very good results in fights.

if i may ad a little story about a, well, it was more like a small war going on, that happened because i wanted to get my hands on some character levelling drinks or whatever.
so i started in the corner of the map, walked all around the edge until i found a suitable place. there was an object with stone walls that was hollow inside and from the outside like 4x10 squares large. i put 4 shooters in there in a square shape so that they could shoot out without hitting eachother by shooting over eachother's shoulders.
then there was a little hill range that i used for the cover of 2 ninja-like guys.
behind both of these i hid 2 archers, honestly, there wasnt much use for them, they were the worst at shooting out of all of them. but they were well hidden behind trees and that first structure which they could jump out in front of and shoot while still being very well covered.
lastly i had my sniper guy. i gave the sniper my best and fastest shot, also he happened to be uninjured in terms of movement speed. this sniper guy went to the enemy base, just near enough to shoot their most dangerous pawn. i had a couple tries until i hit him because of the distance and the number of objects between the two and i didnt do a critical strike either. but hey, i got a free shot at the enemy and they all come attack me exactly where i want them to.
oh yes, i didnt tell you guys yet. happened to have built a little sth out of wooden walls that the enemy would walk through inevitably to get to my pawn that was running away. he would run further than all the other pawns are standing because of his scope of course. the best part about this wooden, well not labyrinth, but you know what i mean, is that all my units can shoot at its entrance/exit (depends on how you look at it) from 4 different angles (ancient stone object, hill ninjas, wood archers and the scope lure guy), the most shots coming from that ancient stone object that also happens to be nearest to where the enemy would arrive at. the point at which they exit this wooden object is where no trees are (because i cut them all), all my units can shoot at them while still being covered by a variety of objects that still let them shoot perfectly well and that they come out one at a time, perfectly for me to pick them off.
since the enemy forces were so numerous (there were like 20 or 30 sth) i couldnt cope with them one at a time fast enough, so with time they amassed quite a number there. some of them tried to storm me with their melee weapons but at least those i could fend off reasonably well. the rest of the enemy shooters just stood in a big kill zone, perfectly orchestrated for this one occasion. at some point the enemy started to rout. i tried to make some more kills, but that wasnt so easy anymore as they were leaving the kill zone. i still killed a whole load of the enemy and only got one guy incapacitated, lost a few fingers and toes and got a bunch of my guys cuts and bruises, but that's all. afterall, i put my docs behind in that group of 4 in the ancient object. also, i used my muffalo as a meat shield. sure i friendly fired quite a bit at them but nothing that wouldnt heal on such a big creature.

oh and this seemed super obvious to me but the aim of your game is survival, pawns that are incapacitated, starved to death or anything alike are useless, maybe even an additional burden to your other survivors.

come to think of it, there should be sth like a little campaign to this game where you start with a small number of pawns in one corner of the map and the enemy is quite numerous and in the other corner of the map but they dont know yet that you arrived and you have to try and kill or incapacitate or rout all enemies to win.
depending on campaign difficulty you get more or less friendly and enemy pawns and starting weapons and resources.
also, the map should be fairly large and the enemy wouldnt venture much further than the midsection. obviously you couldnt leave the map and nobody could enter the map, but maybe you could have options for more weather occurances and stuff
surely you dont need to rebutcher corpses that you already half butchered if you leave the table to smoke a joint real quick?

b0rsuk

The first raid tends to be a peg-legged old man with a shiv. That was easy to defeat even back when turrets required no research. A turret needs a power source and a battery to function, so it's something like 150+100+50=300 steel just to get started, and it may miss its shots.

Vlad0mi3r

Turrets are not an essential for a successful colony. Good use of deadfall traps and cover for your shooters should see you safe in most situations.

Also do not underestimate the power of training animals. Even squirrels and rats can draw fire and hold opponents up in melee.
Mods I would recommend:
Mending, Fertile Fields, Smokeleaf Industries and the Giddy Up series.

The Mod you must have:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=40545.msg403503#msg403503

TheManWithoutAPlan

Quote from: b0rsuk on September 18, 2017, 11:24:08 AM
Try both ways and see what happens.
Alright so I tried it both ways.
When I rushed turrets I found myself lacking walls, food, colonists that aren't slitting their wrists, and a good sight area for the turret.
When I rushed Infrastructure I found my colonists being more happy, shooting better, and being more capable of supporting the turrets later on.

Maybe I should wait until day 20-30 to build turrets.

Vlad0mi3r

Now you sound like "the man with a plan"  ;)
Mods I would recommend:
Mending, Fertile Fields, Smokeleaf Industries and the Giddy Up series.

The Mod you must have:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=40545.msg403503#msg403503

TheManWithoutAPlan

Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on September 19, 2017, 12:21:13 AM
Now you sound like "the man with a plan"  ;)
Looks like I might be able to reach that legendary endgame that I've heard so much about.
I just need to make a master plan.

Modo44

I always start with Smithing (gladius/longsword equipment for melee fighters) > Machining (assault/sniper rifles for shooters) > Mortars (1xHE + 1xincendiary is a great combo; helps immensely vs mechanoid ships, raids that prepare, sieges, and works for clearing vegetation).

Colonists with decent weapons can generally take care of business, so turrets are secondary. Especially since steel turrets blow up too easily, and plasteel is not always easy to find. Basic stone walls with sandbags for cover are enough. Basic healroot is good enough until you want bionic parts. Advanced infrastructure can wait.

b0rsuk

#13
Quote from: TheManWithoutAPlan on September 19, 2017, 12:04:11 AM
Quote from: b0rsuk on September 18, 2017, 11:24:08 AM
Try both ways and see what happens.
Alright so I tried it both ways.
When I rushed turrets I found myself lacking walls, food, colonists that aren't slitting their wrists, and a good sight area for the turret.
When I rushed Infrastructure I found my colonists being more happy, shooting better, and being more capable of supporting the turrets later on.

Sounds about right. I don't mean to sound condescending, but sometimes lessons learned the hard way are better remembered. At least now you know the importance of all these things. Some very smart people, like John Carmack, advise "If you don't know which way is better, try both and compare".

Besides, there are alternatives to turrets. If there are predator animals nearby, a guy with decent Animals skill can recruit you a small pack of war beasts. Bears and panthers/cougars are among the best. You can start recruiting from get go, unlike turrets which need to be researched before you start building.

Also, armor dramatically improves survivability of your guys. "Machining" is worth researching for kevlar vests and helmets alone. If you can't do that, you can plant Devilstrand (but to get a harvest before the first winter you really need to know what you're doing. Better used in a year-round growing zone).

Do consider plasteel turrets to. They're rather mediocre as damage dealers due to scarcity of the material, but they make wonderful bullet sponges that let colonists shoot safely. They are also very fire resistant, which is good in late game.

SpaceDorf

Quote from: TheManWithoutAPlan on September 19, 2017, 12:34:21 AM
Looks like I might be able to reach that legendary endgame that I've heard so much about.
I just need to make a master plan.

Don't :) Unless you want to see Cassandra or Randy doing unspeakable things to it ..

Quote from: SpaceDorf on September 18, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Healthy and Happy Colonists fight way better than any turret ever could.

TOLD YOU SO .. had to get it out of my system.
But like b0rsuk, I am proud that you used the !!FUN!!-Method to learn.
Maxim 1   : Pillage, then burn
Maxim 37 : There is no overkill. There is only open fire and reload.
Rule 34 of Rimworld :There is a mod for that.
Avatar Made by Chickenplucker