Best Defenses?

Started by Dalzima, October 16, 2017, 05:02:31 PM

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TheMeInTeam

Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on October 17, 2017, 06:43:55 PM
Yes kill boxes, trap mazes and turrets can all add up and be used to hold the line. Apparently 100 boars is also a sure fire way to win most encounters.

There are also what I would call more passive methods of defence too. Improve your relationship with tribal factions. When those early raids come through with 6 or so tribal's capture any that are downed and heal them up(you don't even have to waste medicine on them but herbal helps). Once they are healed or even just capable of walking release them once the hit the edge of the map +15 rep with that tribal faction. They can be infected only one leg as long as they stumble off the edge of the map its all good. Get your reputation out of the negative no more massive raids. You can also just buy them off if you have a comms console but that costs silver.

Colony value verses colony advancement. Everything in this game has a value. Every time you increase your items, structure even food reserves you impact on your wealth. The higher the wealth the harder you will get hit (usually, your story teller will have an effect on this). So don't race to turrets thinking you will be safer if you have turrets. Just as mining that seam of plasteel that is next to your base will not help you if you cannot use it. If it is in the ground it doesn't count towards your wealth so leave it there until you are ready to use it.

The enemy dropped a Minigun, win for the home team you think? In the early stages of play picking up that gun could lead to the end of your colony. Miniguns can be valued at over 4000 silver that is the equivalent of 2 colonists. Miniguins in vanilla are about as useful as a hat full of arseholes (not very) so don't add that value to your colony it would be better to set it on fire and let it burn.



???  The pictures I already showed in this thread demonstrate that a handful of miniguns can shut down some of the largest raids the game can offer.  They easily outscale their raid size increase in damage and are the uncontested best killbox gun in the game by a wide margin.

Even better, their condition is nearly irrelevant to their output, same with shooting skill.  They are a much more powerful version of the LMG, which can do similar work early on.  There's a reason they're so late in the tech tree.

Vlad0mi3r

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 18, 2017, 11:45:21 AM

???  The pictures I already showed in this thread demonstrate that a handful of miniguns can shut down some of the largest raids the game can offer.  They easily outscale their raid size increase in damage and are the uncontested best killbox gun in the game by a wide margin.

Even better, their condition is nearly irrelevant to their output, same with shooting skill.  They are a much more powerful version of the LMG, which can do similar work early on.  There's a reason they're so late in the tech tree.

Its great that you have a killbox that works around the use of miniguns. I personally don't like them and the amount of repair work they cause/require after a raid is a lot more than I like to deal with. I have also moved away from dedicated killboxes, still use trap corridors though.This is just my experience I also don't use any combat mods the help  request was about vanilla but I am sure with the target square mod that is out there for miniguns it would certainly improve in their efficiency.

Apart from this the point I was trying to make was that they add massive value to an early colony. So if you don't have your trapped kill corridor setup and ready to go, spraying and praying doesn't normally carry the day in my experience. So to get back to the gist of what I was talking about watch your colony value "all that glitters is not gold" may be a good quote.
Mods I would recommend:
Mending, Fertile Fields, Smokeleaf Industries and the Giddy Up series.

The Mod you must have:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=40545.msg403503#msg403503

TheMeInTeam

Quote from: Vlad0mi3r on October 18, 2017, 05:15:00 PM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 18, 2017, 11:45:21 AM

???  The pictures I already showed in this thread demonstrate that a handful of miniguns can shut down some of the largest raids the game can offer.  They easily outscale their raid size increase in damage and are the uncontested best killbox gun in the game by a wide margin.

Even better, their condition is nearly irrelevant to their output, same with shooting skill.  They are a much more powerful version of the LMG, which can do similar work early on.  There's a reason they're so late in the tech tree.

Its great that you have a killbox that works around the use of miniguns. I personally don't like them and the amount of repair work they cause/require after a raid is a lot more than I like to deal with. I have also moved away from dedicated killboxes, still use trap corridors though.This is just my experience I also don't use any combat mods the help  request was about vanilla but I am sure with the target square mod that is out there for miniguns it would certainly improve in their efficiency.

Apart from this the point I was trying to make was that they add massive value to an early colony. So if you don't have your trapped kill corridor setup and ready to go, spraying and praying doesn't normally carry the day in my experience. So to get back to the gist of what I was talking about watch your colony value "all that glitters is not gold" may be a good quote.

Killbox or not, this kind of value differential should not make a difference for survival, even on extreme where raids consistently outnumber and often outgun you after the very early game.  If the raiders drop something that is useless to you and it has a lot of value, go ahead and destroy it I guess...but this isn't really worth consideration typically.  You're going to live or die on base design + micro capability, not on whether not you kept x arbitrary raider drop.

The images above ARE trap corridors :/.  Rather, a single corridor of traps, which in the end game mostly only see use vs scythers and raiders with rocket launchers.  Corridor is their easiest usage area, though you can use the "aim past" technique in any type of choke.  The minigun is a particularly silly example regardless; a serious case could be made that it's the best held weapon in the game when outnumbered.  The more raiders you get, the closer it gets to "optimal" DPS, very likely double a charge rifle and triple that of any other weapon when used properly...all while ignoring weapon quality and shooter skill.  That's not something one would typically recommend dumping :p.

kubolek01

Turrets around the base,  and concentration of manpower in raid direction. One sentry every 7 tiles. Rarely receive damage. If sandbag wall is infront!
Eat lead, walking pile of silver! (greedy Player)
I...I can't do it. Leave it alive, please!(inner soul)
It lives 200 years to end up as a jacket?!(realists mind)
If I would go to vacation in off-Earth, even fictional place, I'd choose Nibel.

nameless1

Quote from: sadpickle on October 16, 2017, 05:47:06 PM
Well, 2 turrets is usually not enough. I'm playing modded so I can't give you any vanilla examples. The favorite defense of most is a killbox. It is essentially a deliberate opening in your walls which you fortify with turrets, traps etc. Non-sapping raiders will look for a path into your base and if there is only one, they will walk into the killbox. Sappers will still tunnel through your walls, taking the shortest path available.

Really though, the best defense is well-armed colonists. With sufficient numbers you don't even need turrets.

EDIT: Also, check the coverage percentage of things. Sandbags are only ok; they're not great. A wall is better.
And a "covered" wall is even better (being in the dark lower their hit chances) ;)

dkmoo

Quote from: nameless1 on October 21, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Quote from: sadpickle on October 16, 2017, 05:47:06 PM
Well, 2 turrets is usually not enough. I'm playing modded so I can't give you any vanilla examples. The favorite defense of most is a killbox. It is essentially a deliberate opening in your walls which you fortify with turrets, traps etc. Non-sapping raiders will look for a path into your base and if there is only one, they will walk into the killbox. Sappers will still tunnel through your walls, taking the shortest path available.

Really though, the best defense is well-armed colonists. With sufficient numbers you don't even need turrets.

EDIT: Also, check the coverage percentage of things. Sandbags are only ok; they're not great. A wall is better.
And a "covered" wall is even better (being in the dark lower their hit chances) ;)

The darkness cover is no longer in the game. Went away a couple of alphas ago.

nameless1

Quote from: dkmoo on October 21, 2017, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: nameless1 on October 21, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Quote from: sadpickle on October 16, 2017, 05:47:06 PM
Well, 2 turrets is usually not enough. I'm playing modded so I can't give you any vanilla examples. The favorite defense of most is a killbox. It is essentially a deliberate opening in your walls which you fortify with turrets, traps etc. Non-sapping raiders will look for a path into your base and if there is only one, they will walk into the killbox. Sappers will still tunnel through your walls, taking the shortest path available.

Really though, the best defense is well-armed colonists. With sufficient numbers you don't even need turrets.

EDIT: Also, check the coverage percentage of things. Sandbags are only ok; they're not great. A wall is better.
And a "covered" wall is even better (being in the dark lower their hit chances) ;)

The darkness cover is no longer in the game. Went away a couple of alphas ago.
Nooo :D
Didn't know, thatnks for the tip. Can't wait for A18, I'm checking amost daily now.