Boomalopes/rats should only explode if their "sacs" are damaged, or if burnt.

Started by Call me Arty, February 05, 2018, 04:05:04 PM

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Call me Arty

 Boom, massive issues solved. As they currently are, we have an animal that nothing hunts (because they would explode), we can't slaughter (because they would explode), we can't really justify hunting unless desperate (because they would explode), and can't keep around the base (because they would explode). This just makes them really unfun to deal with and kinda nonsensical.
   I propose that we limit their explosions to damage to a unique body part - the obvious yellow sacs that give them their name - or burning (exception to frostbite, because that'd suck?). At the very least, they'd be safe to slaughter, other animals could hunt them again, and they could have a heart attack right in the middle of your wooden cabin and you'd suffer no ill effects. This way, they can still be justified as kept around to swarm enemies, farmed for meat/sale, and their chemfuel.
"Well, animals would be wary of approaching them, and it'd be dangerous because a fire might start." Animals still eat toxic or dangerous creatures, how else would we get real-world footage of some toad dying after eating a toxic slug, after supposed hundreds of years of evolution. Plus, if colonists can get desperate enough to settle for (and I dread to consider) nutrient paste, unbutchered corpses, and even cannibalism in times of need, I'm sure a wolf wouldn't waste away while a succulent boomalope calf just sat around.
   As for burning, I feel like we don't necessarily need to burn directly on their sacs to set them off. Bullets can go-off without a lick of flame reaching powder, so it's probably the same deal with space petrol.
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

If there's a mistake in my post, please message me so I can fix it!

wwWraith

I heard somewhere that the chemicals in their sacs are kept stable only by some processes while they are alive. Whenever they die, these internal reactions become uncontrollable and quickly leading to explosion.
Think about it. Think around it. Perhaps you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

Names are for the Weak

Quote from: wwWraith on February 05, 2018, 06:38:07 PM
I heard somewhere that the chemicals in their sacs are kept stable only by some processes while they are alive. Whenever they die, these internal reactions become uncontrollable and quickly leading to explosion.

I believe that that information is in the fiction primer.

sick puppy

it's actually a real thing.
and really hot bullets? fired from which weapon? pila?
seriously though, the mythbusters shot at gas tanks many times and they never exploded or caught fire. bullets in flesh dont cause sparks. only if the bullet is actually burning (like tracer bullets) will the tank light up.
but even if so. rimworld is fiction. it is science fiction. if the boomratalope dies, it explodes. easy as that.

Call me Arty

Quote from: sick puppy on February 06, 2018, 08:58:34 PM
it's actually a real thing.
and really hot bullets? fired from which weapon? pila?
seriously though, the mythbusters shot at gas tanks many times and they never exploded or caught fire. bullets in flesh dont cause sparks. only if the bullet is actually burning (like tracer bullets) will the tank light up.
but even if so. rimworld is fiction. it is science fiction. if the boomratalope dies, it explodes. easy as that.

No need to be so hostile and close-minded there, pal.

Bullets have a lot of kinetic energy, though it was probably my fault for describing a powerful projectile as "hot." At the same rate though, they're really troublesome critters. Shot? Explode. Beaten? Explode. Stabbed? Explode. Peacefully died in it's sleep? Explode. Finding some middle ground between an animal that doesn't explode just by being mildly inconvenienced and still keeping it at a level where it earns the "boom" in it's name.
Also, I'm kinda confused by your points of "it's really a real thing" and "but even if so. rimworld is fiction. it is science fiction." Rimworld isn't a dumb, schlocky game, just look at the effects that hygiene and temperature alone have on your pawns. I just feel that "it's. . . it's like an antelope. . . but it 'splodes" doesn't do the game justice.
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

If there's a mistake in my post, please message me so I can fix it!

angleof9

While there is nothing in the current version of the fiction primer that says boomalopes explode on death regardless of what caused their death, the recombining chemicals theory makes sense.
Besides, there's an easy solution to boomalopes:
Step 1: use non-flammable materials on the outer walls of your base.
Step 2: have doors(also non-flammable) on the outside of your base.
Congrats. Now boomalopes/boomrats can't get in, and the outside of your base is protected.

Boomalopes and boomrats are there to provide an unexpected challenge that is actually partially based on player decisions, instead of just an ai rolling dice. I don't understand the need to make the game easier in the name of making it 'more realistic'. I especially don't understand the point of making the game easier and less realistic at the same time. The point of Rimworld is to face challenges, and almost everything has a fairly simple, common sense counter.

kingy10005

i try to draft a player to shoot them at a distance then get my peeps to put out the flames if there close to my buildings or let it burn if its out side my stone walls / wood walls with non flame paths in front since rain starts if it burns for awhile if you can tame them you can get them to attack raider attackers good for tight spaces :D

OFWG

Quote from: kingy10005 on February 07, 2018, 10:41:00 AM
i try to draft a player to shoot them at a distance ...

I just mark them for hunting, it adds to the entertainment :D

Seriously, the AI is mostly reasonable about hunting these now- your guy will finish them off from a respectful distance and dodge the fire to pick up the body. They're only really trouble in a manhunter pack.
Quote from: sadpickle on August 01, 2018, 05:03:35 PM
I like how they saw the naked guy with no food and said, "what he needs is an SMG."

Call me Arty

Quote from: angleof9 on February 07, 2018, 07:55:45 AM
I don't understand the need to make the game easier in the name of making it 'more realistic'. I especially don't understand the point of making the game easier and less realistic at the same time. The point of Rimworld is to face challenges, and almost everything has a fairly simple, common sense counter.

The game is a mix of realism and fiction. This is fine. The thing is, though, where players have and lose agency. If you shoot a wolf, you have accepted the possibility that all you're doing is pissing it off and it'll tear your throat. You can combat this with more lethal or accurate weapons, armor, more capably trained pawns, or even just making a farm so you have no need for conscious food or textiles. You really only need to do one of those. The player has the choice on what to do.
  Then, there's what you can't control. Chickens, for example. They need to be fed and need to be kept at a comfortable temperature. Otherwise, they'll starve or freeze. Keep in mind, however, that bio-engineered Wargs won't even harm their owners if starving, despite being alpha predators designed to kill. They will starve to death rather than harm you, and freeze before destroying property.

And then there's boomalopes.

They have to be properly fed, they have to be properly heated and cooled, they must be kept away from each other so that they don't reproduce and make more bombs with legs, they must be kept from other animals so their death doesn't kill your whole stock, they need a special non-flammable room to live in, you need fire-foam poppers in case the fire from their death spreads along wires, they need to be kept from the rest of the base so that raiders don't have an weak-point in your perimeter to dig through. Oh, and don't worry, if they get old after all you did to keep them alive, they can still have a heart attack and randomly die, causing a chain-reaction with the rest of them.
The most efficient way to keep almost every animal in the game except two is all in one barn that you can just throw food into, and heat with one system. Exceptions apply to animals that lay eggs or produce milk, so that omnivores don't eat those valuable products. Boomalopes however? The smartest way to treat them is in individual cells, away from the rest of your colony, in a flame-proof structure, and giving them each just the right amount of food. Doesn't that seem inconvenient?

Also, fireproof walls are already the best decision for everything. What if you tame them? You let them roam outside, they die to the elements or angry pirates. Inside, death means destruction.
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

If there's a mistake in my post, please message me so I can fix it!

wwWraith

Honestly, the animals in RimWorld are mostly dull now. They are all essentionally the same, differing only by textures and some numbers. You could make the same successful colonies if there were only 3-5 species at all (1 for eggs, 1 for milk, 1 for wool, 1 for combat, 1 for hauling - and these criteria could be combined).

But the boomies are unique and that's what makes them interesting. They are intended to provide some extra challenge, and if you want to use them, you should make some more efforts keeping more things in mind. But you are not forced and there are many ways to just ignore them.
Think about it. Think around it. Perhaps you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

sick puppy

@call me arty: at this point you just make it seem as if you had an issue with fun. (also, how is all what you described not influencable? seems like perfectly influencable, just like hunting)
if you dont like the danger of having them as pets, sell them. you can shoot them from afar aswell, as if they werent your own. you can wait for it to rain to go on boomratalope hunt.
if you wanna keep some for chemfuel production, either make sure they dont reproduce by only having males or only females, or keep them all in a stone barn and feed them regularly, or just live with the danger (which is my choice) or all of the above. it really isnt that hard.
and just like the poster before me pointed out, they are the most interesting kind of animal in the game. second place goes to thrumbos, third place to the insects probably. then maybe the wargs, rhinos and elephants.

if stuff is fun, it tends to be good. (for games)

Call me Arty

Quote from: wwWraith on February 07, 2018, 04:56:38 PM
But the boomies are unique and that's what makes them interesting. They are intended to provide some extra challenge, and if you want to use them, you should make some more efforts keeping more things in mind. But you are not forced and there are many ways to just ignore them.

Quote from: sick puppy on February 08, 2018, 09:52:40 AM
@call me arty: at this point you just make it seem as if you had an issue with fun. (also, how is all what you described not influencable? seems like perfectly influencable, just like hunting)
if stuff is fun, it tends to be good. (for games)

The issue I have with the boom-critters isn't that they're too fun or unique. The issue I have is that they're difficult to handle to the point of un-fun. Having some unique, odd-looking critters around is fine, they're a pretty interesting combat animal too, it's just that the penalties for any mistake is too harsh. Once again, you fail to keep a pig, thrumbo, warg, or even (with mods) a Tyrannosaurus Rex safe?They die. You lose their utility and help to the colony. Boomers have a penalty, yes, but it's a steep one that applies to too much. I would absolutely be fine with the penalty of explosion for roasting them alive or letting them get shot causing an explosion, but butchering them causing that? When one randomly goes manhunter and attacks one of my pawns? What am I supposed to do then, let my colonist get beaten to death while they have a perfectly good knife or mace in their hand? Well, I better, otherwise I'll get to deal with burns instead of bruises!

They're special, sure, but exploding for every damn reason isn't fun, it's not enjoyable. Sure, I could see some wacky Skyrim mod where animals explode when they die being fun and goofy, or exploding when you go to loot them, but that would wear-off quick, wouldn't it? There are already plenty of games with a "flamethrower guy" or "grenade guy" where a good shot will earn you a reward, but you usually don't invite those kinds of people into your house to chill-out with your friends, family, and wooden floors, not do you?
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

If there's a mistake in my post, please message me so I can fix it!

sick puppy

well then dont have them in your base
nobody forces you to tame or hunt them. i am sure for the most part they get ignored by players. some wanna tame them, others wanna hunt them. others again wanna have them around to shoot them when raiders come.
i have great fun with them and i honestly believe most people do aswell
if you think there are so many players like you out there, make a survey:
"boomrats and boomalopes: are they fun? - yes/no"

Call me Arty

Quote from: sick puppy on February 08, 2018, 06:15:52 PM
well then dont have them in your base
nobody forces you to tame or hunt them. i am sure for the most part they get ignored by players. some wanna tame them, others wanna hunt them. others again wanna have them around to shoot them when raiders come.
i have great fun with them and i honestly believe most people do aswell
if you think there are so many players like you out there, make a survey:
"boomrats and boomalopes: are they fun? - yes/no"

I want to have furry friends who I can send to headbutt enemies until they explode. I would prefer they didn't do this because the power went out and they had a heatstroke on the carpet. I do not understand why that is so hard to get across.
I like boomalopes and boomrats.
They are an interesting, unique, and sometimes fun addition to the game.
I do not enjoy having to take precautions with them far beyond that of any other creature - including prisoners - in the entirety of the game. Therefore, that is not fun. I would prefer they were less not-fun to deal with.
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

If there's a mistake in my post, please message me so I can fix it!

sick puppy

you see? i think that's boring. why dont rats eat a carcass and spread the plague instead? that would make for awesome stories! the way it is right now, only the death of bondes animals and these boomers will affect you in any negative way. sure, you couldve sold your elephant instead if it didnt die, but dying pets is never a problem as long as not all of them die at once or something.
it seems to me that you want the cake AND you wanna eat it. well you cant. boomers go boom because you live with the danger that they can. otherwise they'd be overpowered.

but if you want it so much that you can get your overpowered boomers, get a mod done where they follow your own rules. i'm sure it's not that hard to make. and if you like it and it doesnt throw off the whole gameplay, spread it. until then it is fair to assume that it will make the game seem very modded.

ps: i understand your point, but including me nobody seems to share your opinion here. it will quite probably never make it to vanilla. i am sure tynan wants the (ab-)use of boomers in rimworld to be always like playing with fire and not a free way of shooting rocket launchers at the enemy