Unstable build feedback thread

[dogthinker]

Not very interesting error. Rescued member of a faction got up while a pawn was tasked with tending them.

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Could not reserve Thing_Human98911 (layer: null) for Trudy for job TendPatient (Job_543399) A=Thing_Human98911 (now doing job TendPatient (Job_543399) A=Thing_Human98911(curToil=-1)) for maxPawns 1 and stackCount -1. Existing reserver: Alyas doing job Rescue (Job_543398) A=Thing_Human98911 B=Thing_SleepingSpot109259 (toilIndex=1)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:LogCouldNotReserveError(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:638)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:Reserve(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:332)
Verse.AI.ReservationUtility:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Job, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationUtility.cs:40)
RimWorld.JobDriver_TendPatient:TryMakePreToilReservations() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\Heal\JobDriver_TendPatient.cs:39)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:268)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:MakeUndowned() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:583)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:CheckForStateChange(Nullable`1, Hediff) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:378)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:Notify_HediffChanged(Hediff) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:130)
Verse.Hediff_Injury:Heal(Single) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Health\Hediff\Hediff_Injury.cs:191)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:HealthTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:738)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:573)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:505)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)


[Tynan]

dogthinker - did it cause any visible problems?

[Aerial]

I guess while writing and editing this, I found my own answer.  Perhaps the intent is you don't get to manage these stories, you always get the bad outcome and have to deal with it.  You have no input, you can't change it, you only get to pick up the pieces.  It's a pretty negative and annoying story if that's the case.

How come no input? Arrest them, beat them, kill them.

If there was a decent chance that I could actually arrest someone without violence (most criminals confronted with armed police/security guards will surrender in real life) I would be far more willing to incorporate high break risk people into my colonies.  But when the only option is to damage them until they can't walk any more, at great risk of permanent injuries, I'd much rather just not have them in my colony to begin with. 

I think the *risk* of a pawn refusing to surrender quietly is a great thing for a story generator.  Having it as a guaranteed behavior makes that whole situation not fun for me.  I want to run a colony of decent people trying to survive together, not some dystopian gulag where the colonist's character weaknesses can only be addressed by violence.

[EdgarDruin]

Chemical interest / fascination.  Again, not a story I enjoy.  Just a 100% chance of them finding and abusing drugs after you put time and effort into including them in the colony.  In my latest game, wake-up was the drug of choice, dropped from raiders and taken before I could clean it up.  Addicted on the first hit every time.

It's strange, wake-up shouldn't be addictive on the first hit unless something changed. It should be safe to use it once in 3 days, as in B18. In one 1.0 colony I had a drug policy with 1 wake-up per 3 days for my crafters to boost them up a bit and had no issue with that. Never had anyone, chemical fascinated or not, addicted to it after one use (unlike go-juice or yayo).

My bad, it was go-juice she found both times.  Immediate addiction.

I guess while writing and editing this, I found my own answer.  Perhaps the intent is you don't get to manage these stories, you always get the bad outcome and have to deal with it.  You have no input, you can't change it, you only get to pick up the pieces.  It's a pretty negative and annoying story if that's the case.

How come no input? Arrest them, beat them, kill them.

The input you mention is only after the fact, I'm picking up the pieces of a what I consider a very negative story that I had no way to prevent.  To me, it's a bunch of small failures that pretty much make me want to throw up my hands and never finish a game. 

I consider it a failure when a colonists get addicted and an incredibly frustrating failure because there was virtually nothing I could do to prevent it other than reload and clean up the drugs before she had a chance to get at them.  And I play on commitment most often now, so that's not really an option.

You only get to pick up the pieces of failure with these traits.  You have no way to prevent it from happening in the first place.  Pyro *will* start fires.  Chemical *will* find drugs.  They will rush across the map right after a raid and pick up dropped drugs to make it happen.

[ChJees]

I noticed that during the time one of colonists had Malaria the severity of the disease actually went down. Find it very strange. Also the immunity gain speed of the colonist is 117% while in bed.

Self removing Malaria

[seerdecker]

Feedback on the updated armor rating description: it is clear and it maches bbqftw's formula. bbqftw's conclusions are also correct: one good piece of armor is indeed better than multiple layers of weak armor.

On another topic: is it possible to tone down the frequency of the "mad animal" incident? I get it quite often and it's not particularly difficult to deal with, making it more of an annoyance than a challenge.

[Ser Kitteh]

The mad animal instance needs to be changed according to biome. Current desert playthrough has like 4 camels, 3 boomalopes and 2 little scarabs. On a jungle or forest, it's no big deal but one with little animals means that I'm just eying that boomalope to come over and make a mess of things.

[Polder]

I feel that what Rimworld needs is a budget-based based pawn generation system.

During pawn generation, there would be a budget for skill levels, passions, good traits. Incapacities, bad traits, poor health and old age would increase the budget instead. After adding traits and any incapacities, the system would then assign skills and passions taking into account the backstory.

This would ensure that pawns that are bad in some way are also guaranteed to be good in some other way. The size of the budget could be the same for all pawns (extremes are impossible), or follow a normal distribution (most pawns are average, a few are very good or very bad).

I also feel that "incapable of" should not prevent the respective activities, just result in a mood loss. Nobody would prefer to watch the colony burn down rather than do firefighting, or eat corpses rather than doing some butchering and cooking, or see their friends die rather than tend their wounds.

[dogthinker]

dogthinker - did it cause any visible problems?

No, the rescue-pawn self tended, and my doctor turned around and got on with her day.

On play experience, there might be a bit of an ugly interaction between the new recruit mechanic (resistance) and the storytellers trying to 'be nice' to tiny colonies. I've had 3 escape pods in 3 days (and one more a few days prior). It could be randy-being-randy, but it feels like the storyteller is trying to give me more colonists (since I still only have 2, and the colony is in poverty, at 23 days). However, the rescues and prisoners are just piling up.

I'm also only getting 0.5% chances to recruit a 67% difficulty, happy, prisoner. The warden only has 5 social, but still, that feels too low. Maybe the percentages need to be adjusted upwards a bit, given there's the enforced delay of pushing through the resistances. I've had this prisoner for 18 days already, I don't think I've ever had a 67% difficulty prisoner take even remotely that long before, and I guess it's going to take a couple more seasons at this rate.

edit: levelled up to 6 social... 0.58% chance. I feel like it ought to be about 10x that for such an easy prisoner.

[EdgarDruin]

And, one more time on the chemical and pyro stuff.  After walking away I realized I really offered no solution, so here's what I would consider a solution:

For chemical traits, you either provide them an outlet for their chemical desire or their desire for an outlet overwhelms them until they binge on anything they can get their hands on.  I never craft drugs or brew beer in my games.  I don't like the binge aspect of the chemical traits so I simply avoid it all together, however, if there were a valid reason for me to do so, I'd happily keep my chemically fascinated colonists in check by using the tools already in the game to provide a non-addictive or slightly addictive outlet rather than have the random "I'm going to binge on this incredibly addictive thing and there is nothing you can about it" behavior.

For pyro, something along the same lines.  There's a campfire, go do things over the fire.  Not getting enough of that, go burn down my buildings and shame on me for not noticing your desire to play with fire.

... and that's all I have to say about that ...

[Razzoriel]

This single sentence is a hell of a divider considering the calculations:

In the case of apparel armor, each layer of apparel applies its armor to the attack separately, from the outside in.

This means that a huge amount of attacks will simply go through 100% if you have any apparel other than clothing that is not made of middle-high quality, such as devilstrand or hyperweave. Cloth for instance is now technically useless as means of protection. 10% armor previously could mean the difference between life and death when any attack was targetted at high-HP parts, such as the torso; 40 HP becoming 44 HP would mean your character can live or die. 10% armor now means this: any attack that deals damage higher than 6 technically ignores it completely. Which is a huge majority of any attacks that can bring any threat to your pawns. This is huge.

Now, if this is balanced or "fair", I'm not sure yet, but its very weird that if you have three apparels that have 7% armor are as effective as one single apparel with 7% armor against any damage higher than 5 (unless armor penetration values are customized, which its not the case with the majority of attacks, especially those made by animals). I'm not saying that armor should be added incrementally, but some sort of middle-ground could solve this crucial point. Something like 50%/25% for incremental values over the biggest armor values could mean that yes, that cloth t-shirt can mean the smallest, but crucial difference in that raid.

So in the example I've suggested, here's how it would work:

Today: Engie is wearing a normal flak vest, excellent chinchilla fur T-shirt and normal foxfur duster. The armor values of the apparel for Sharp damage are, respectively, 45%, 6% and 9%. For defenses against Sharp damage at her torso, if the attack has 7 damage or more (~10% AP), both the T-shirt and the duster are completely nullified, and it would make no sense for Engie to wear those two apparel in any combat situation. However, the flak vest will completely deflect ~17%, and halve damage/convert into blunt ~17%.

Suggested: Engie is wearing a normal flak vest, excellent chinchilla fur T-shirt and normal foxfur duster. The armor values of the apparel for Sharp damage are, respectively, 45%, 6% and 9%. For defenses against Sharp damage at her torso, the order of most to least protective values are: 45%, 9% and 6%. The total protection value for Engie's torso against Sharp damage is 50.5% (45% + (9%/2) + (6%/4)).

[Tass237]

In regards to Chemical Interest, Chemical Fascination, and Pyromaniac traits, and the usability thereof:

I have, in the past (pre 1.0), done three separate runs of the game, in each run, one of the above mentioned traits was forced onto all pawns by the scenario editor. Of those runs, only the Pyromaniac one was doomed from the beginning, as they cannot fight fire. I managed to make it 73 days with the pyro-colony anyway, because I started in a rainforest, and built largely out of stone, (and I gave myself the perk of starting with firefoam popper research), but eventually I got a mechanoid raid with too many incendiary centipedes to handle. In both of the chemical-colonies, I intentionally explored drugs as a profit-creating enterprise. I did find that if I dabbled in anything stronger than smokeleaf and alcohol, everything went badly, but I could manage a smokeleaf and alcohol producign colony. The trick is to A. not care that your pawns have two addictions, as long as you can keep the addictions fed, and B. alternate smokeleaf with alcohol, instead of producing both. I went with 30 days of major smokeleaf production, 30 days of major alcohol production. If you tell all the pawns to take a bunch of drugs into inventory, those drugs are not available for others to binge, while still allowing pawns to maintain addictions in the off season for that drug. I very much recommend these and similar play-throughs for experienced Rimworld players, as it forces you to learn new tactics and keeps the game interesting. I did a similar game with forced Brawler trait, and it gave me much more appreciation for melee.


In regards to NPC trader caravans and where they park:

I haven't checked out the changes from the latest build yet, but I did some thinking about where I want traders to hang out, assuming I have no intentions of exploiting them or subjecting them to harm. I think, generally speaking, I always want them to hang out in or adjacent to my main storage stockpile, both for ease of storing the goods I buy, and because it is usually a large enough area that they don't wander into bedrooms or clean rooms. It would be interesting if instead of trying to park just outside your colony, they tried to park on top of your largest stockpile, or maybe your largest stockpile that can contain stuff in which they are interested. It would make sense from a verisimilitude perspective as well, because they might logically wish to be near the stuff you might sell them, and it would help disguise the instant disappearance of items you sell to caravans. Just my two cents.


In regards to high penalty psychic drones:

I have done some testing with this (in build 1967), and found it very reasonably counter-able by sendign out a trade caravan, and having enough psychic foil helmets on hand for everyone who doesn't go. I do wish psychic foil helmets were craft-able, or that the simple helmet at least got its 10% psychic resistance back, but as they don't happen terribly often (on Cassandra Hard anyway), it isn't the unavoidable colony-crushing incident that some seem to be complaining about.
I disagree strongly with those who are saying that general game difficulty shouldn't scale with wealth, and I think that those people have never considered it from a game development standpoint before. If some items add a ton of wealth without adding enough benefit, maybe that needs balance tuning, but also, maybe it isn't reasonable to have a colony full of golden beds and artwork on a rim world. The game needs to have difficulty calibrated for the early and mid game more than the extreme late game (especially for colonies that could certainly have 'won' already if the player wanted), as the typical player (read: players with much less than 200 hours in the game) will experience the early and mid game many more times than they will experience the late game, due to colony failures.

[Sirsir]

Chemicals and Pyro can all be dealt with in some way. Unless your only nonviolent (who is also a pyro) is hanging out in base and pops in the middle of the raid you can spare someone to keep them from exploding something. In general I like to keep them close at hand during a raid anyway to rescue or distract. Chemical Interest usually doesn't addict right away, giving you time to react, and Chemical Fascination drugs can be boarded up unless you are relying on a Flake Eco. (Don't get me wrong I tend to ignore CF pawns until I get to a second base, but they aren't useless)

Mostly I think pawns attacking explosives in general is BS. "I ate without a table so I'm gonna go beat up these High Explosive mortar shells!" No scenarios in this game justifies going full Grimey...

[EdgarDruin]

Chemical Interest usually doesn't addict right away, giving you time to react, and Chemical Fascination drugs can be boarded up unless you are relying on a Flake Eco. (Don't get me wrong I tend to ignore CF pawns until I get to a second base, but they aren't useless)

I posted because that specifically wasn't the case, my chem colonist went right at the addictive stuff twice in a row and was addicted first hit.  And both times, when you can least prevent it, drugs dropping from raiders before you even think to clean them up ... fight was done, toggle draft, oh, great, she's addicted.  She made a beeline for the drugs and took them ... maybe that "i want to binge" state sticks around and just waits to be fulfilled and will do so as soon as the opportunity is presented, or maybe I was incredibly unlucky.

I think what I read from Tass237 is that if I'd have kept her addicted to two other things, then maybe she wouldn't have immediately gone for the drugs that dropped.  Sort of what I suggested in my solution post, I'd never tried that, but it is certainly a bit more aggressive than I'd prefer I guess.

[gadjung]

i think traders should target more towards colony gather spots or center of home zone - they still love to hang out on the edge of map in my colony

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