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RimWorld => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

Title: Unstable build feedback thread
Post by: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM
An unstable build of the next version is available on Steam. Today I'm only announcing this for loyal forumgoers only. I'll be progressively publicizing this as the build stabilizes.


Warning:
-This is an unstable build. It will get updated without warning, may randomly break your savegame or become unplayable for periods. Please only test if you're willing to put up with some technical issues. There are some known bugs and we expect to find many more.

On topic:
This thread is for giving feedback and discussing the build as you've played it. Open-ended suggestions go in the suggestions forum, bugs go in the bugs forum. Questions, theorycrafting, and really low-effort posts are likely to get removed.

To access:
-In Steam Library, right click RimWorld -> Properties -> Betas tab -> select the unstable branch. Restart Steam and play.

Streaming:
-I'm not going to enforce it or be mad or anything, but I'd prefer if streamers would hold off streaming until the game is stable. I'd hate for bugs and imbalances to give a bad impression. That said, it's your choice.

Feedback:
-Feedback from play experiences is much much more worthwhile than theorycrafting. Please don't spend time giving a ton of feedback just from reading the changelist.
-I'd love to hear play stories in this thread or any other thread. (Play stories are often more useful than suggestions).
-Please report bugs in the bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0) using the simple guide How To Report a Bug (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=513.0)!
-If you have suggestions, we welcome them. Please post suggestions in the suggestions forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=6.0).

Unresolved issues:
-Back compatibility is a bit spotty, some buildings will vanish and you'll get errors here and there. We're still solving some back-compatibility issues. But, unmodded saves from B18 and probably A17 should load.

For translators:
-Extensive improvements have been made to the translation system. Read about them here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41942.msg412629).
-The "Translation report" button on the main menu will give a detailed text file which lists all the issues to be resolved with the current translation. Use it!
-Some unresolved issues remain: The backstory titles won't match right now. That's okay. We're going to change the game so they match automatically, so you can ignore this problem at the moment.
-I recommend Visual Studio Code for editing translations. It's called "code" but it's great for editing XML too. Just use it to open the translation folder.
-Collaborate on the translations forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=17.0).

Feedback request details:

A lot has changed, so it would be really good to get feedback game-wide. But especially on these topics:
General raid difficulty progression, noting that the system probably deploys its points more efficiently now and some high-cost pawn kinds were costed down.
How much wealth various colonies actually have. I'd love to see screenshots of wealth graphs of long games to help balance the "Expectations" thought thresholds.
Profitability of various crafting paths. Art should probably be better.
Ally assistance frequency and usefulness.
The difficulty and interest of the ship ending sequence.
The difficulty of training, maintaining, and using a large amount of animals both for economic and warfighting purposes.
The difficulty/balance of maintaining recreation and the clarity of the system.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:23 PM
List of major changes:

-Added bridges. You can build bridges over rivers and non-deep lake/ocean water. Bridges support all but the heaviest structures, can burn, and collapse under damage.
-Added new "Messages" section of the History tab. This section shows the last 200 messages and letters you've received.
-Added low-tech plate armor.
-New scenario: Naked Brutality - Start naked with no items.
-New main tab: Wildlife. Allows easy counting, finding, and designating of wild animals.
-Ship end sequence: Starting up the ship reactor now takes 15 days, during which you will be attacked constantly by desperadoes and mechanoids.
-New raid arrival mode: Multiple groups.
-New raid arrival mode: Enemy pods scattered all over the map.
-Split mechanoid scyther into scyther (close combat specialist) and lancer (fast sniper)
-Split tribal warrior into warrior (mid-range melee) and penitent (poverty melee, similar to drifter)
-Faction relations are now categorized as hostile/neutral/ally instead of just hostile/neutral. Allies will randomly send military aid and will respond to certain special requests.
-You can now offer gifts to improve faction relations by using transport pods, sending caravans, or giving gifts to their traders. Gifts can be silver, items, or slaves. No more magical teleporting silver gifts.
-Visitors of allied factions will now occasionally leave gifts before leaving.
-New buildings:
--Watermill generator: Generate power from moving water.
--Autocannon turret: Heavy medium-range turret.
--Uranium slug turret: Armor-penetrating long-range turret.
--Fabrication bench: Craft advanced components and some advanced tech items.
--Waterproof conduit: Transmit power under water for bases on both sides of a river.
--Butcher spot: Butcher without building a bench, at an efficiency penalty.
--Double sleeping spot: Sleep with your partner, even in crushing poverty.
-New traits:
--Undergrounder: Don't mind never seeing the sky, don't mind being in darkness.
--Great memory: Slower skill decay.
--Tough: Take less damage.
--Gourmand: Eat a lot, random eating binges, cooking skill bonus.
--Sickly: Get sick often.
--Quick sleeper: Take less time to sleep.
-New items:
--Flak pants
--Prosthetic heart
--Bionic spine/heart/stomach
--Archotech eye/arm/leg
--Tornado generator
--Patchleather: Poor-quality leather made from any combination of other leather
-New incident: "Wild man wanders in”.
-New terrain: Soft sand - doesn't allow building medium or heavy structures.
-New designators: Mass-forbid and unforbid.
-Infestations now begin with the insects tunneling towards the colony, which gives the player time to respond.
-You can now write job titles for your colonists.
-New type of attack: Kick sand/water in eyes.
-Condensed leathers together into fewer types. Instead of a separate type for each animal, there are categories.
-You can now smooth natural rough rock walls into high-quality walls.
-Trained animal skills and tameness now decay over time. Animals can revert to the wild, depending on their natural wildness.
-Deep drill use will now sometimes cause insect attacks (by tunneling through the ground near the drill, with a warning).
-New edge shader for blueprints looks much nicer and more visible than before.
-Workbench bills can now be assigned to specific colonists.
-Added "Show what will buy" window which shows all items a trader will buy.
-Trees’ color now depends on the current season.
-Added tainted-apparel thing filter.
-Increased prisoner recruitment chance and added a resistance which must be reduced to zero before recruitment can begin.
-Animals can now be renamed.
-Animals can now get diseases.
-Added an automatic destroyed building replacement toggle. When active, a destroyed building will leave behind a blueprint and be automatically rebuilt.
-Added translation report tool: Generates a report about the currently-loaded language data stating which translations are missing, which are unnecessary, and lots of other useful information.
-Added translation cleaner tool: Corrects many common problems in translation files and adds/updates English language reference for every string in the game.
-You can mass-toggle various checkboxes and drop-down selections by clicking and dragging the mouse over them.
-Workbench bills can now be copied and pasted.
-Colonists now opportunistically haul items while working if their current target is roughly in the same direction.
-The player can now request AI-core quests from allies.
-It's now possible to craft prosthetic and bionic body parts, grenades, and molotovs.
-It's now possible to mass-cancel all designations with a designator's right-click menu.
-It's now possible to forbid/unforbid all items and rearm all traps with a designator's right-click menu.
-You can now drag and reorder colonists in the colonist bar.
-Social interaction log now has flavorful randomized text instead of the same repeated interaction text every time.
-Mods page now has a search bar so you can easily find one mod in your list of hundreds.
-In some very bad situations, a mysterious Man in Black may arrive. Can he set things right in these parts?
-Armor system reworked into a 3-outcome system with armor penetration. The armor penetration of the weapon is subtracted from the armor value of the armor. This gives an effective armor rating, measured as a percent. We roll a RNG out of 100%. If the result is under half the effective AR, the hit is totally deflected. If the result is over half the effective AR, but under the effective AR, the hit is mitigated - damage is reduced by half and sharp hits are converted to bruise. If the result is over the effective AR, the hit passes the armor and applies normally. As before, armor is applied in sequence from the outside in. AR maxes out at 200%. Default armor penetration is 1.5% per point of damage, but some weapons vary from this.
-Totally reworked how plants grow; they now grow everywhere at once instead of reproducing plant-by-plant. Wild plants after several in-game years should now look more or less as good as at the beginning.
-Long-range mineral scanner can now be tuned to seek specific minerals, and must be worked by a researcher.
-Battles in the Combat tab are now named.
-Items of the same type in the Items tab are now grouped together.
-Items in the Items tab can now be sorted by mass, market value, etc.
-Instead of shooting them, hunters now execute downed creatures with a neck cut (except explosive creatures).
-When placing or selecting work stations where pawns can sit while working, the spot where the pawn goes is indicated by a chair outline so the player realizes that a chair can be built there.
-Removed tornado incident.
-Improved caravaning:
--Redesigned how world movement speed is fed back per-world tile.
--Pack animals now follow colonists to speed up the packing process.
--Added Caravan tab with caravan loading progress.
--Redesigned "Form caravan" window: stats like carried mass, caravan speed, days worth of food, and visibility are now explained better.
--Caravans now automatically forage for food while traveling.
--Added "Remove from caravan" command: remove people or animals from the caravan even if it hasn't left the map yet.
--Added "Load into caravan" right-click option: designate extra items to be picked up by the caravan before leaving.
--Caravan speed now depends on the carried weight.
--Caravan members now slowly gain social recreation when the caravan is not moving.
--Caravan visibility is now explicitly expressed and better explained than the old caravan stealth. This makes small caravans more relevant.
--Quest prompts now give much more information about what kinds of challenges to expect.
--When reforming a caravan, we now list colonists' inventory separately so the player can choose what to take and what to leave.
--Caravans who are not moving now have a lower chance of being attacked.
-Transport pods now have a contents list which allows removing things from the pod.
-Blunt weapons now have a chance to stun the target.
-Joy is renamed to 'recreation'.
-Using deep drills can cause insect attacks.
-Changed deep moving water to chest-deep moving water: walkable but slower than shallow water.
-Turrets are cheaper and more powerful, but now consume steel/uranium for maintenance after firing a lot.
-Character log now integrates log messages from combat and social interactions.
-Deadfall trap redesigned to Spike trap: Much more powerful with a 100% chance to spring on targets, and has armor penetration (depending on what it's made of) but requires resources to replace.
-Insects will now go into an insect-specific "hypothermic slowdown" instead of getting hypothermia and dying on the first winter.
-Alphabeavers incident now only occurs in biomes with sparse plants so they're not meaningless.
-The refugee from the "downed refugee" world quest can be instantly recruited by offering help.
-Removed scyther blade.
-Mechanoids now always die on downed.
-Doing passionate work now affects mood instead of recreation.
-Deep drills now yield stone chunks if no resource is below.
-Firefoam poppers will now pop whenever there's a fire in a 3-cell radius, instead of only when the fire touches them.
-Food poisoning now has three stages it moves through over the course of a day.
-Pawns hit by ranged attacks now stagger the same way as pawns hit by melee attacks. This effect only happens if the weapon's stopping power stat is equal or greater than the target's body size.
-Most crafting benches are now uninstallable and reinstallable.
-Removed shiv since it's basically a low-quality knife.
-It's now possible to craft knives at crafting spots.
-"autostart.rws" is now automatically loaded on start in dev mode, for faster testing.
-Techprof subpersona core now completes current research instead of random research.
-Combined rib body parts into rib cage.
-Reworked the "advanced map options" dialog layout, extreme game-breaking map sizes are now disabled by default and must be enabled in the options.
-Tribal factions can now do sapper raids.
-Added medical care column to the Assign tab.
-Removed shoddy and superior item qualities.
-Rebalanced and refactored quality generation. Masterwork/legendary level items never generate on enemies, traders, bases. Masterwork items are extra hard to craft, and legendary requires an inspiration.
-Removed the distinction between allowed areas and animal areas.
-Wearing new apparel now takes time. Colonists now take off the colliding apparel first (which takes time) before wearing the new one.
-Added minimum crafting skill to various weapon and apparel crafting recipes.
-Removed the requirement to pay fee to initiate the item stash quest.
-Various floors now require research.
-Settling very near another faction base will now cause faction relations loss every quadrum because of anger due to territorial encroachment.
-Fulfilling trade requests now gives goodwill.
-Destroying a faction base of a mutual enemy now gives goodwill.
-All traders are now unwilling to buy tainted apparel and short-life meals.
-Improved animal fleeing behavior
-No human enemies spawn with weapons above industrial tech.
-Charge lance is now craftable and usable by humans.
-Explosive weapons now explode when set on fire.
-Wood-powered fires and coolers no longer vanish when fuel is exhausted; they wait to be refueled.
-Tons of art has been redone and adjusted.
-Many, many other bugfixes, interface and balance adjustments
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Reserved.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: animagus_kitty on June 16, 2018, 11:27:15 PM
Quote
-Minor starvation (below 25% severity) no longer causes miscarriages

Mis...carriages? What is this 'miscarriage' concept? I seem to have missed that update.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:30:37 PM
Pregnant animals can miscarry since animal breeding was introduced (years ago).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: animagus_kitty on June 17, 2018, 12:15:19 AM
That makes much more sense. I thought I'd missed a people-breeding update. I guess I haven't had issues with that particular problem, and it had never occurred to me that it was possible to miscarry.

Glad to see you're still working hard :) Always great to see an update.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Pizza Mode on June 17, 2018, 12:53:07 AM
So many things in there I want to try!
If I turn this on and start a new game will my pre-existing saves be at risk?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Robostove on June 17, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
Looks like a lot of great changes, especially glad to see how many of the QoL mods seem to have been integrated into the base game. Thanks Tynan!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Shotgunfrenzy on June 17, 2018, 01:18:31 AM
Wew, now the couple hundred annoying ones screaming where's 1.0 can quieten down a bit.... I hope
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Razghul on June 17, 2018, 01:26:18 AM
Sounds (reads) awesome ! :D
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ShadowTani on June 17, 2018, 01:53:08 AM
Hmm, from an initial glance at the changes it seems the economic game is going to be tougher now. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Can't play much this week though unfortunately, but something to look forward for next week then. :3

So many things in there I want to try!
If I turn this on and start a new game will my pre-existing saves be at risk?

As long as you don't touch your old saves with the new version it shouldn't affect them.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 17, 2018, 01:54:24 AM
I once made a thread complaining about being unable to wear armor vests over tribalwear, lo and behold that's being fixed. Tynan you beautiful bastard you.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Stollie on June 17, 2018, 01:57:17 AM
Looks like some good changes, I'll play through a bit more and offer more feedback however...

After loading it up to take a look at the caravan forming options. I like the new interface details, very handy info, but to be honest  I was pretty underwhelmed about the caravan forming interface itself. I was kind of expecting something like being able to save templates based on this update having a big overhaul to caravans in general.

One of the common actions I usually do (and I'm sure most others do as well): -

1. Make a caravan with the same guys (good shooting/melee skills), the same amount of food (~5 days worth), some medical supplies + modded items and send them to a nearby event like a item stash, rescue etc.
2. Form a mining crew (with similar supplies) to get resources that are not available on your settlements map anymore.
3. Form a trading caravan with 2 guards my best negotiator and some burden animals.

It's fairly painful having to re-select the same people and same basic stuff every single time for the various scenario's and I often forget to grab something that would go with a caravan of that type every time while I'm adding all the other stuff thats not part of my basic template.

TLDR: I was hoping with this major update to caravan's that templates might actually be a thing to make using them for varius things less painful.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Third_Of_Five on June 17, 2018, 02:06:47 AM
Yes.

YEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Pizza Mode on June 17, 2018, 02:12:13 AM
As long as you don't touch your old saves with the new version it shouldn't affect them.
Ah thank you, I'll give unstable a shot then
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Call me Arty on June 17, 2018, 03:06:12 AM
 Looking great, Ludeon! We've had complaints, and you've solved a lot of them!
 I'm loving some of the small things you did a lot. Sure, watermills and butcher spots are nice, but the increased viability of beer (fulfilling my fantasy of my space-moonshiners not being beat out by space-stoners in profit margins, at least somewhat) and wargs (now feeling like the ideal min/maxed pet) are greatly appreciated! Dropping the power consumption for the things that sit idle so much (lamps, turrets, vital monitors) are also amazing tweaks!

 Lots of changes I dislike in a way but also understand and like in another, such as the removal of the shiv, removal of spacer weapons from humans, and crippling of battery capacity. I wouldn't change any of those, though I - as someone who never used shivs - will miss shivs. . . for some reason I can't explain.

 Things I dislike? The culling of the mechanoid weapons, for one. I liked getting miniguns and scyther blades off those guys, made it worth the severe damage or death a single one of them could dish-out, and it added a neat layer that is also found in the tusk/horn you can get off of elephants or thrumbos. I'm iffy about the addition of the charge lance, as I can see it as being the reason the mechs had their weapons removed (you wanted to add it, but didn't want one mob to drop two great weapons, right?). It's odd to have a charge lance added that's also found on these unknowably-complex mechanoids when you can't craft AI cores, or artifacts. Additionally: Removing the ability to sell "tainted" apparel to traders. Ordinarily, I'd have no issue with the inability to sell blood-soaked shirts to a caravan trying to survive on a harsh planet with limited resources, but we really have no other alternative. It's usually not a viable idea, but you can smelt old weapons, but the only thing to do with tainted apparel is burn the stuff. At least being able to nab a couple textiles or make something like a dummy would be appreciated.
EDIT: Forgot to mention greenthumb! Why'd you have to get rid of that?

 Overall though? I appreciate all the little changes. They add a lot to the game in total, and it's actually pretty nice to not see a bunch of big things that will be broken anyways while the iffy stuff stays broken.

P.S. Hey Tynan, you know you can make, like, bulleted lists and headings, right? Sure it's minor compared to all the work you did for the actual game everybody's bugging you to work on, but the post was a bit of an eyesore, and I can complain about anything.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ReZpawner on June 17, 2018, 03:20:48 AM
You sadistic bastard. I have an interview tomorrow and I need to be rested...Is this all just payback for the "murdering and turning Tynan into a hat" thing on Reddit? I said I was sorry damnit!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: James Swift on June 17, 2018, 04:04:38 AM
Quote
Reduced artillery accuracy slightly
Why?! It can't hit an army of 20 in 5 hits, why reduce it even further?!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Raider Ace on June 17, 2018, 04:25:59 AM
Hey Tynan,

Thanks for uploading the unstable build, I'm excited to see what will come to be with the game by the time the stable 1.0 gets released. Keep up the good work!  ;D

P.S. I'd like to know if there will be things like animal drawn carts or small sailing vessels added in the stable 1.0.

Thanks again,
Ace
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gurdel on June 17, 2018, 04:36:02 AM
Thank you. This made my day.

At one point I thought I was reading a list of features for all my RimWorld mods. This is a great update.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Almantuxas on June 17, 2018, 05:10:06 AM
Just got my hands on 1.0 unstable (x64 executable), and the game is already sending errors.
EDIT: more errors (hurray!).
EDIT #2: and the errors don't stop coming and they don't stop coming, filling my output log with alot of nonsense.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: roben on June 17, 2018, 06:20:30 AM
> alpaca [...] no longer nuzzle

But why? Real life alpacas nuzzle all the time! Plus, this change made my wife sad.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 06:54:54 AM
Quote
-Back compatibility is a bit spotty, some buildings will vanish and you'll get errors here and there. We're still solving some back-compatibility issues. But, unmodded saves from B18 and probably A17 should load.

Why? Just forget about it and move into important things. Someone will eventually post a guide about how to update the save game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Roolo on June 17, 2018, 06:55:56 AM
Just got my hands on 1.0 unstable (x64 executable), and the game is already sending errors.
EDIT: more errors (hurray!).
EDIT #2: and the errors don't stop coming and they don't stop coming, filling my output log with alot of nonsense.

You're loading the game with a ton of mods, which are all developed with B18 in mind. Of course that won't work. Disable the mods, and try to start a new game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Kirby23590 on June 17, 2018, 07:04:46 AM
-New incident: "Wild man wanders in”

Yes!!! Finally my dream has come true!! Thank you Tynan! :D

Now time to hunt some wild men with my cannibal colony...
making grand sculpture of tynan.

P.S I did test out the unstable development build. i gotta say i like the looks of the lancers and the charge lance now becoming equipable weapons by pawns other than mechanoids only and the looks and redesign for the mechanoids . But i'm gonna miss the sythers back in A14 or in B18 when they are trying to snipe me. :'( But luckily they are melee only now eating their own long-ranged medicine!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 07:11:46 AM
About how easy to have animals... I checked the game with hope but I dont see an essential feature. The hardest part for me is to know how many animals I have and since I have to count them manually I end up having as little animals as possible. Even trying to have only 20 huskies is a pain, cause they will reproduce and you will have to count them every now and then to make sure you dont have to many. You can guess how it goes with chicken, but not better...

So basically we need an animal counter... And if possible some kind of orientative information to know how much food they eat.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Almantuxas on June 17, 2018, 07:35:53 AM
You're loading the game with a ton of mods, which are all developed with B18 in mind. Of course that won't work. Disable the mods, and try to start a new game.
When I was loading the save (actually autosaving), Core was the only thing enabled in the Mods menu. Just because the log file's huge, doesn't mean I have many mods enabled.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 07:48:17 AM
If you saved the game with a ton of mods then the game will expect those mods and probably dont even work... I dont see where is the hard to understand thing. Best you can do is load the save in b18 without mods. If it loads, then save it again, without mods, then load it in 1.0. If it doesnt load in b18 without mods, then you should delete all modded things in your map.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: henk on June 17, 2018, 08:02:46 AM
I never could grasp how could colonists build gun turrets whilst unable to craft a simple blunderbuss. @Tynan , is it possible/viable to make a "gun turret mount", on which you can mount any shooting weapon you buy/loot/craft? That would make much more sense than all those auto-turrets.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 08:11:42 AM
I have been thinking... For animals and plants, I have to made calculations with excel to know how many of them I need but then I thought... Why hide this information from the players?

The suggestion would be to show a stat in every animal and plant that says "yield nutrition/day" and "required nutrition/day". For plants it would be at 100% fertility, no need to include the math in every fertility.

For animals it needs to include all the time it needs until it gets into full maturity, then divide the nutrition provided (meat amount x 0.05) with that time to know the "yield nutrition/day". In animals it should also show how much "required nutrition/day" it needs.

This is cause what most makes me not go animals is how hard is to estimate what I need. How much hay? How many animals I need to support X colonist? etc. The same could be said for pawns and rice/potatoes tho.

This suggestion might be too number intensive, but I cannot come with any better. What Im sure is that we need some kind of orientative information to know how much a pawn or animal eats in term of plants or other animals, and how much they give.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: mightyhuhn on June 17, 2018, 08:21:09 AM
the trait sickly gives +4 medicine is this working as intended?

the changelog is just this:
Quote
--Sickly - get sick often
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 17, 2018, 08:27:12 AM
the trait sickly gives +4 medicine is this working as intended?

the changelog is just this:
Quote
--Sickly - get sick often

Intended, it's counterbalancing and we like to think that being sick your whole life would teach you a bit about sickness.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TastyCookies on June 17, 2018, 08:36:38 AM
Just got my hands on 1.0 unstable (x64 executable), and the game is already sending errors.
EDIT: more errors (hurray!).
EDIT #2: and the errors don't stop coming and they don't stop coming, filling my output log with alot of nonsense.
Wait, does that mean RimWorld is now 64-bit? :D
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MisterVertigo on June 17, 2018, 09:27:05 AM
I can't wait to try these changes out!

I was thinking a while back you had posted about making changes to how grass is spread. Were any changes/adjustments made to that process?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 17, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
I can't wait to try these changes out!

I was thinking a while back you had posted about making changes to how grass is spread. Were any changes/adjustments made to that process?

Thanks!

Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.

Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: kosh401 on June 17, 2018, 09:44:24 AM
I can't wait to try these changes out!

I was thinking a while back you had posted about making changes to how grass is spread. Were any changes/adjustments made to that process?

Thanks!

Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.

Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.

Excellent! I kept hoping to see this mentioned along with adjustments made to trees and crops. Looking forward to testing all the things!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 17, 2018, 09:53:52 AM
What is this exactly?

(https://i.imgur.com/QJcbNS1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 17, 2018, 09:58:59 AM
What is this exactly?

(https://i.imgur.com/QJcbNS1.jpg)

Deny if you want, or not. The only networking RW does is the main menu version check.

Nothing changed on this since last build.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: UnlimitedHugs on June 17, 2018, 10:18:31 AM
Cheers for the early testing invite.
Is the new MapLeakTracker working properly? Calling MapLeakTracker.ForceLeakCheck() always reports a leaked map after starting a new game, then returning to the main menu.
I just load a very simple mod to make the call, no other changes to the game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Renatus on June 17, 2018, 10:19:48 AM
God I wasn't sure how much longer I could endure the wait for this, but after seeing all the amazing changes.... mein gott, its a beautiful update.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 17, 2018, 10:21:14 AM
Quicky:

Started my first plantation and the drop down list is chaotic, sort "Alphabetically" please, but separate per minimum skill requirement, this means I prefer to see no skill needed sorted on top and then gradually list below based on skill number but again, alphabetically too.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 17, 2018, 10:26:48 AM
Tynan, if it's not too much of a hassle, in the scenario editor (and maybe the devmode), can certain things be alphabetically categorised?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Kirby23590 on June 17, 2018, 10:32:43 AM
Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.

Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.

Is there a work tab that adds that splits construction and repair?

It's nice to split people who repair and people who build things since raids or other events that damages structures. colonists prioritize repair rather than constructing a missing or fixing a hole in the wall.

Just a suggestion that i ran around and found from the Suggestions fourms. ;)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 17, 2018, 10:35:51 AM
I've been reading the whole Tynan post and haven't found about the issue where hurt animals are fed with the best meals.

Also
-No more faction relations impact if a friendly person is caught in crossfire when firing at a mutually hostile target
Doesn't it look abusable as some people may intentionally shoot through allies?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: animagus_kitty on June 17, 2018, 10:37:23 AM
Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.

Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.

Is there a work tab that adds that splits construction and repair?

It's nice to split people who repair and people who build things since raids or other events that damages structures. colonists prioritize repair rather than constructing a missing or fixing a hole in the wall.

Just a suggestion that i ran around and found from the Suggestions fourms. ;)

I'm out of the loop, sure, but I think I remember Fluffy's(?) Work Tab doing that. Splitting all categories by individual task, and then you could assign some to have higher 'construction' and some t have a higher priority 'repair' task.

If Tynan&Co don't do something about it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 11:24:09 AM
Is there a work tab that adds that splits construction and repair?

It's nice to split people who repair and people who build things since raids or other events that damages structures. colonists prioritize repair rather than constructing a missing or fixing a hole in the wall.

Just a suggestion that i ran around and found from the Suggestions fourms. ;)

Build and repair used to be different work types but they were fused in A16 i think... I used to have everyone in 1 in repair, but only builders in building, so I could repair very quickly after a raid. Idk what to say... FOr once i miss it being split but Im a sucker for simplicity... Even if its not good :/
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: santafefoundation on June 17, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I can't rescue escape pod people
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Canute on June 17, 2018, 12:03:51 PM
I can't rescue escape pod people
Escaped, that means you imprisoned them before.
Then you need to capture them like before.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TastyCookies on June 17, 2018, 12:21:07 PM
Tynan,

Thank you so much for developing a 64-bit version of RimWorld, I just tested it and everything is working good so far. I think if anyone chooses to heavily mod their game, they would need about 8gb minimum. To anyone that wants to access this version, you need to create a separate shortcut to the file RimWorldWin64.

This maybe a dumb question, but will modders have to make a different version of their mod for the 64-bit version?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Canute on June 17, 2018, 12:44:08 PM
This maybe a dumb question, but will modders have to make a different version of their mod for the 64-bit version?
The Linux B18 version was allready 64-bit and all mod's works there.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jchavezriva on June 17, 2018, 12:46:57 PM
By saying ludicrous cause issues with AI and other aspects of the game, you mean its worse than before? I personally did not find anything game breaking playing with ludicrous all the time. Not anything bad enough to be a bother at least.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 01:06:47 PM
By saying ludicrous cause issues with AI and other aspects of the game, you mean its worse than before? I personally did not find anything game breaking playing with ludicrous all the time. Not anything bad enough to be a bother at least.

I dont think so. He explained it several times in the past. Ludicrous breaks the game in some minor ways other than the massive memory and performance hit (which is pretty high tbh). For example, mortars in a siege might not be able to reach your base and thus making the event worthless. Caravans breaking mood cause of sleep deprivation cause they cant reach the exit in time, etc. Tynan said that the events arent balanced for a map this big and this might make the game unenjoyabe.

So with the requirement of having to explicitly enable the big maps, he makes sure that new players will at least try the game as he intends first, instead of making the possible mistake of playing the biggest map available cause "bigger is better and if its there is because i should play it".
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dingo on June 17, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Flattered to see some of my mods implemented! Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bozobub on June 17, 2018, 01:56:12 PM
I can't rescue escape pod people
Escaped, that means you imprisoned them before.
Then you need to capture them like before.
Nope.  Santafefoundation is referring to random pawns who show up downed in escape pods, just like the ones your initial pawns show up in when using the "Crashlanded" scenario.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Malpractice on June 17, 2018, 02:32:04 PM
Cassandra Rough, Standard New Arrivals Start - Play Story / Feedback

(Day 1) - Chose a temperate coastal area with with a huge river.  The river has two sets of collapsed rocks in it.  I honestly don't know if they're supposed to be river rocks or if it's a bug, but I'd recommend a different texture/name if it isn't a bug. I build a campfire, and the estimate says it should last 2 days.  I've had to refuel it twice by hour 8 of the second day.

(Day 2) - Xue, the Prostitute Idol, gets eaten by a lynx not far from my base.  Her lack of combat skills means she's dead before I can respond. Rough start. She gets buried in a shallow grave, but we name our faction the Lynxslayers and the colony Xue's Rest in her honor.

(Day 3) - Wolf attacks our colony's dog.  Manage to respond this time, but the dog dies in the crossfire.  Wild animals seem much more aggressive in this patch.  I like it, but I wish there were some way to easily indicate that an animal is hostile allowing a user to respond *before* the first bite (an alert, icon, etc).  Wolf did get scared off after taking damage, which is cool.  A moment after the wolf attack, a mad rat appears as my first event, feeling rather anticlimactic after two far more threatening animal attacks.

(Day 5) - RAID - I'm attacked by Love, the Pirate.  One of my two pawns is disabled from food poisoning. This new mechanic is MUCH better; less frequent and more impactful. My remaining pawn fights it off in melee and captures Love.

(Day 6) - RAID - A warrior is being chased and I take her in, fighting off the single raider.  Things start to feel stable.  I start to focus on base building and getting a power grid going.

(Day 11) - RAID - Colony has three pawns, attacked by a mad rat and raider at the same time.  Rat goes for raider and dies; raider is dispatched easily with the aid of my newly gained warrior.

(Day 13) - Collins the Vet is recruited from prison; started taming alpacas.  When taming it says, "named HIM Alpaca 1".  I've noticed this recurring across the UI - "Gut worms in HIS stomach."  It's weird that HIM/HIS is in all caps. 

(Day 18) - I noticed the option to send items to a specific stockpile after completing a bill.  That's an excellent feature.  That's an excellent feature, but would be hugely improved if we had the ability to rename stockpiles.  Finding "Steel Stockpile" in that list is easy, but having to identify and find "Stockpile 48" is tedious. Thanks Jimmy, it's already there; somehow I missed this for two years.

(Day 21) - RAID - Colony has four pawns, attacked by 3 pawns.  Difficulty felt right.

(Day 32) - Some of my alpacas got plague.  Extending disease to animals provides a nice layer of interaction to caring for them, making a "vet" pretty useful.  With 10 skill doctor and only herbal medicine, one died, two survived, and three were unaffected to start.  Feels right.

(Day 36) - RAID - A manhunter boomrat attacked as a dazed colonist wandered off toward it.  Attempts to save him left two men down - it should have been one down, but I messed up.   About half a day later, a raid occurs.  I have 5 pawns:  1 pacifist, 2 down, and 2 with combat ability.  There are five fairly strong attackers (bolt action rifles, shotguns, machine pistols).  Just before they arrive, Love recovers from his wounds enough to stand up and fight poorly.  Using the river, I manage to take down 2 before they close, but all three fighters are knocked out by shotguns.  Raid difficulty jumped a bit there, but my colony had grown a lot in 15 days. I only died due to the combination of events.  I'd say the balance feels really good in my short game.  The pacing of raids felt like they're always a threat, but there were a few lulls which helped me make longer-term progress and deal with non-combat threats.

At this point, my base is on fire and pretty much everyone's been kidnapped, so I declare defeat and start a new game.  So far all of the changes seem excellent.  The balance seems tighter, the new art is awesome.  My game isn't long enough  for a major wealth graph, but it peaked at 21k before the final raid on day 36.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Crow_T on June 17, 2018, 03:01:55 PM
So far lots of nice little tweaks, my favorite is the zone manipulation. Started off naked twice and the first raider got me both times haha- really need a good shooter and crafter to start this scenario. How do you make tribalwear now? I didn't have the option at the crafting spot.

Also, a big thanks to the Ludeon team for listening to and seriously considering player feedback :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: JimmyAgnt007 on June 17, 2018, 03:21:41 PM
Cassandra Rough, Standard New Arrivals Start - Play Story / Feedback
(Day 18) - I noticed the option to send items to a specific stockpile after completing a bill.  That's an excellent feature, but would be hugely improved if we had the ability to rename stockpiles.  Finding "Steel Stockpile" in that list is easy, but having to identify and find "Stockpile 48" is tedious.

We have been able to rename stockpiles for a while now.  Unless Im missing something here.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 17, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
EDIT: I decided to file this as a bug report here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41808). While it might not strictly be the kind of bug reports asked for, it is a feature in RimWorld itself, which allowed something in B18, which is gone in 1.0.

RimWorld 1.0 has completely destroyed ModCheck. The problem is the new patch loading code. It's not the fact that it changed, but more it changed in a way that I lost the ability to mod the patch loading process, meaning I can't update ModCheck to fix the problem.

The problem is Verse.LoadedModManager.LoadAllActiveMods().
Code: [Select]
foreach (PatchOperation current3 in LoadedModManager.runningMods.SelectMany((ModContentPack rm) => rm.Patches))
{
current3.Apply(xmlDocument);
}
The code itself is fine. The problem is I need to patch it with Harmony. However ModCheck calls Harmony from the mod class instantiation earlier in LoadAllActiveMods(). In order to use Harmony, it needs to be loaded before the patched method is called and as such it's not possible to mod LoadAllActiveMods.

Obvious solution: Move the loop to a new method.

Alternatively make a new method containing everything after the loop starting with:
Code: [Select]
foreach (Type type in typeof(Mod).InstantiableDescendantsAndSelf())This will give max modding freedom.


To be completely honest, I kind of like the old approach better. Now all files are merged into one and then the patches are applied one by one. In B18, all patches are applied to each file and then the patched files are merged. While it may be slower, the file by file approach provides the modname and filename of the file being patched and ModCheck reads that with Harmony. Not only can this be included in error messages, it can also be used actively by PatchOperation. I added ModCheck.FindFile (https://github.com/Nightinggale/ModCheck/wiki/FindFile), which takes two strings and compare them against the current mod and file names. It only returns true if both matches, meaning it can be used to avoid using XPATH searches on wrong files. When it applies just once, the file is significantly smaller. Animal mods often have one file for each animal, meaning Defs will contain just a single child, which should speed up XPATH searching. I have made performance tests with and without FindFile (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=36534.msg385709#msg385709), but not against RW 1.0. Still, since XPATH is by far the slowest part, I will assume the FindFile approach is significantly faster than the RW 1.0 approach.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 17, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Amazing changes. I'm currently testing out the features of 1.0. I can't complain about anything yet ( I'll update once my early game rounds up). Biggest thing I'm looking forward to is the difficulty increase and hopefully I'll feel it.

One big change that could offer  a really rewarding experience is if the enemy could have a chance to detect traps and then find a different path so the temptation of a cheese maze of traps is gone. Also detection of a kill box meaning if they entered an area and died before finding cover they proceeded to find a different path. Feels like I accidently cheat the system by walling off my base and have to self correct the difficulty by putting rules on myself.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jchavezriva on June 17, 2018, 05:11:59 PM
By saying ludicrous cause issues with AI and other aspects of the game, you mean its worse than before? I personally did not find anything game breaking playing with ludicrous all the time. Not anything bad enough to be a bother at least.

I dont think so. He explained it several times in the past. Ludicrous breaks the game in some minor ways other than the massive memory and performance hit (which is pretty high tbh). For example, mortars in a siege might not be able to reach your base and thus making the event worthless. Caravans breaking mood cause of sleep deprivation cause they cant reach the exit in time, etc. Tynan said that the events arent balanced for a map this big and this might make the game unenjoyabe.

So with the requirement of having to explicitly enable the big maps, he makes sure that new players will at least try the game as he intends first, instead of making the possible mistake of playing the biggest map available cause "bigger is better and if its there is because i should play it".

400x400 map in the 64 bit version is working perfectly until now. No stuttering at all.
When caravans are forming now animals follow the colonists forming it. That should speed up the process enough to avoid that issue.
The thing regarding sieges is still a problem though. But its easy to fix...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jagerius on June 17, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
Great news! I'll gonna test it as soon as I backup my mods and configs.

How's 1.0 performance wise? Any improvement?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 17, 2018, 05:45:04 PM
First attempt at Cassandra extreme alone and naked. My colonist went on a berserker rage from eating raw meat. Didn't realize campfires require 3 construction even though a stove requires 0. Seems backwards to me tbh. Colonist was about to recover from mental break the visitor get closer, colonist wonders away from visitor then visitor opens fire and kills colonist. Not sure if that is intended either.

Starting up round two of perma death I'll post again if anything else looks buggy.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: drunetovich on June 17, 2018, 06:36:28 PM
Not sure if it was previously this way, but small animal weights seem to be one magnitude more then they should be:
Domestic cats - 18Kg
Rats and squirrels - 10Kg
Hares - 14Kg
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 17, 2018, 07:35:35 PM
Quite a few much-appreciated QoL changes, and man that's a lot of reworks and balance changes.  I'm interested to try it, and will reserve both positive and negative judgments until I do.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 17, 2018, 07:51:44 PM
Colony lasted 68 days. Last major event was malaria on my only doctor after last one died. Then the plague hit the only other person who was aloud to do doctoring ( skill 2 ). Then a pack of manhunting squirrels attacked.

Personally I felt by design I had no chance to win. I suppose it is luck of the draw but I feel like disease is the worst possible event to have when you are poor and new. I'd prefer more stacks of 12 raiders than the plague.

O well will be starting on another map with a river again.

Second day ( Completed )

Bugs : I've identified the friendly fire mod in 1.0 lets you shoot side by side with an ally but bugged depending on the position of the enemy.
Friendly fire shot my character in a very clear cut approach that didn't start prior to raider making contact.

Strange Features: Way to many world event notifications early game. I can't even build everyone their own rooms yet let alone go save a down colonist or take on an outpost. Early trade missions would be more worth wild. Caravan distances are way decreased, 8 tiles away mission is less than a day ( I like this a lot).
-Food poisoning doesn't represent the stat indicated by character. .5% chance at food poisoning in a clean room resulted in 3 food poisonings in a row with more scattered through out.
-Exposing rotting corpse is a little weak of a extreme break risk. All they did was dig up 1 corpse and put it in a stock pile room where no one got to see it. They were off the mental break right after doing it so I could have the same person bury the corpse.
-60 days into the game and already 30 graves. Labor and land required to deal with this is insane. Cremation isn't even slightly viable of a research tech probably not even in the next 60 days.

Back Story
In game day 51.
My lovers break up due to a failed marriage proposal starting a huge mental debuff that can't be helped.

Random wonder joins colony. Nothing special but not a liability. I've decided to rebuild my entire half mountain base (bottom right corner of map). To the center of the map to utilize the bridge building mechanic. Extremely risky decision on this difficulty but so far the game feels very forgiving early on.

Since the AI loves attacking my air conditioning units first, I'm moving my fridge to the center of the base design with bedrooms/utility structures surrounding it. I'm throwing always any idea of a kill box in stead just going to add a few sandbags near doors to do flank pops. This base can't even be walled in because of the river so I've turned the difficulty up on myself by a lot.

During this base move I experienced 2 extreme mental breaks. My starting character decided he wanted to murder another. I accidently meleed him with the guy equipped with a gladius. He sustained way too many injuries and will die of infection this will result in me loosing my only cook, miner, warden and skilled doctor. The second extreme break the unearthing corpse. 

Right after my starters death and a hide in room mental break a manhunter pack attacks. Two polar bears.  1 run and gun heroics managed to take him down but the river base is almost ready to be moved into now.

Since the this might be the turning point to where I lost. I wish I had made separate bedrooms sooner to avoid this.

With no herbal meds and best doctor has a skill of 1. The next raid hits me with 7 invaders. I only sustain bruises on my melee character but one of my guys shoots the doctor in the head for a minor injury. The amazing part is they all make full recoveries with no infections ( I like this part a lot). Starting to see hope again.

Short after recovering another refugee pops up. I decide to take it because I know my chances to progress without a doctor, herbal meds or even a grower that can grow herbal meds is slim. There turns out to be 12 raiders with guns. We are exiting winter now into the growing season. Careful kiting leads the fight with only 1 minor injury and the joining of a replacement DOCTOR YAY! Plus he can mine and a little bit of social. If I can move over to the new base extremely soon everything will be good.

** Real day 1 ** Archive

Alright 20 days into naked alone Cassandra extreme. I will just edit this post from now until they die. Bugs edited on top, strange features in middle and back story on bottom.

Bugs: Burying corpse labeled hauling corpse.
Enemy was attempting to fire at me in the missing corner of a square base. (maybe this is intentional)

Strange features: New berry bush design makes growing obsolete early on and grows just a little too fast since I can't eat them faster than they spawn.
Time gap between raids is over 1 season long making it feel more boring early game. I'd prefer less other events like toxic fall out, plague, mad animal herds early game and more mini raids personally. 
***Most annoying strange feature*** You need some magic perfectly assigned work menu to stop colonist from deconstructing 1 floor at a time and hauling that one peace. Works the same with harvesting and mining if you want hauling high on a character. 

Raiders always went for my fridges cooler and avoiding the semi kill box area  I designed. If it is a bug I prefer it this way. It makes my raids more tactical because I have to go defend my base at multiple angles now.

Cover behind walls and shooting seems really really bugged. They won't peak out the sides like they did before. I don't like this because my favorite strategy was a melee in a doorway with 3 guys behind him with guns.

Back Story: Spawned in temperate forest with 30/60 with a river in temperate forest(needed some part to be easier). Building base half mountain half outside. Predators almost out numbered game animals included bears, cougars, wargs, lynx and foxes. Tactic has been wait till they get injured from hunting and shoot them till they will bleed out.

First raid was 1 guy with a gun, accidently made my character with only 2 crafting so I had to settle with a granite club. Very close fight but the club beats pistol. First two crash landed guys were too far to save 3rd joined my colony on the 20th day. No raids in over 15 days.

Second raid happened about 20ish days from the last and was weaker than first raid. 1 guy with a melee weapon. It didn't bother me that much that a trade group decided to kill him for me though. * Happy note my newest colonist become lovers with my first on her second day with us.

Day 30 a colonist asked for my help. Usually I am scared to take these missions but I wanted some excitement. I definetly got it. 5 raiders 2 with auto pistols 2 revolvers and 1 melee weapon. The raiders were actually pretty cleaver with thier tatics. They avoided me bating them to my sandbang defense area and started burning down my freezer. Victory was claimed with no damage on the base and very minor injuries. The guy obtained was amazing 12 shooting 12 research. First researcher to join the colony.

Day 32 third raid came in 4 primative raiders. I was well equipted to deal with them but again they hit the traders first.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: drunetovich on June 17, 2018, 08:00:59 PM
There still too many leather types.
Luxury leathers could be rolled into one type.
Wools could also be combined into one and the same.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MarvinKosh on June 17, 2018, 08:07:01 PM
Missing from the change log: You can click Edit in the Research screen and re-arrange research projects. Seems like it would be useful if you have research from mods and want to have a clearer view. :)

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: JuanEnrique on June 17, 2018, 08:38:32 PM
Greetings!

I started playing the "unstable version"...... an escape pod dropped out of the sky at some point, and i could only CAPTURE the person, not RESCUE! Didnt it use to have both options? so i had to capture this person and make an extra room (prison conditions instead of just a bed / medical bed). a raider came, made him combat ineffective and had to imprison him too. so the non hostile survivor was "in restraints" in my living space basically....... i released them both after a while cause i didnt want to keep dealing with them, the cost they came with etc. i apologize if this is a useless post  :D so glad 1.0 (unstable) is out congrats!!!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 17, 2018, 08:53:40 PM
Wow, 1.0 is here! And with literal tons of different really nice features. I also see a lot of really useful musthave mod functionality added which will drastically improve gameplay. What great news!

I am really excited about most of the stuff i see.
Armor overhaul feels a lot more interesting, than simple damage reduction it was before.
Graphic change is absolutely fantastic.
Friendly fire rebalance is an amazing decision.
Incorporating functionality from variety of QoL mods - nice.

Sadly there are also some changes, that I feel are entirely unneeded. I mean as if steel wasn't consumed enough being a finite resource (i don't count traders, since they're irregular as hell), now we have to "reload" turrets using steel regardless of if they were blown up or not. And not 10-20 steel but 60. Moreover deep drills get another nerf, being slowed down and more expensive, while also having the potential of just wrecking you by spawning an infestation event. I like the risk of infestation, but nerf to speed imo is unneeded.

Animal changes: Why training decay and chance to go back to being wild? Mostly they aren't really useful enough to justify wasting food on anything other than huskies and now their usability is even more crippled and a training chance nerf over as well... They could use a buff instead imo. Wolves and boars not being able to haul breaks my heart. They're potentially dangerous waste of space to be disposed of instead of being useful now (;_;)

Item quality rebalance is fine, but I am a bit sad, that making masterworks is now quest only. I don't count inspirations as those usually happen on guys that can't craft anything useful at all and thus wasted. Also with how much time it takes to make any type of armor or weapon, its near impossible to finish it before inspiration ends. The only way to get some is to store some unfinished items with slivers of work left, hoping for inspiration to finish a bunch and hopefully get at least one masterwork, but that just feels cheesy and wrong.

Overall i am really hyped about 1.0 changes, but hold cautious hope that Rimworld will still grow and evolve even over 1.0 release. Its potential is truly limitless :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: nimdok on June 17, 2018, 09:45:17 PM
Anyway to get beta build with the DRM free download?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jchavezriva on June 17, 2018, 10:05:27 PM
"-Overhauled mental break probabilities. Aside from some exceptional cases, all mental breaks are more or less equally probable."


The amount of catatonic breaks im getting feels damn wrong. This should not be as common as wandering in sadness or locking yourself in your room.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: antibodee on June 17, 2018, 10:07:26 PM
Jesus Tynan... you never cease to amaze or produce.  Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nasty_Nate on June 17, 2018, 10:10:49 PM
Hey Tynan! Big fan of the game, been playing a ton since Jan.

I'm loving the naked scenario, took a couple of notes of bugs/things that felt off.

Couple of problem with hand tailor bench - can't make tribalwear, there's no indication of if a bill doesn't have enough resources in stock

Relationship decline feels too fast, traded with a neutral (0 rep) tribe, and 2 months later I was negative from automatic draw down

The ally assistance feels ok, and I've been able to play around using them to tank early fights, but it seems like they fail to recognize threats sometimes (eg. manhunters) until they've already been attacked.

Food poisoning might need to be toned down a little bit, happens really often with simple meals and feels a bit too debilitating. I understand if this was intended, but the way it was in .18 felt more realistic.

Seems to be bugs around names/pronouns. For example, quest popped saying to save a characters brother, the message was "NAME is Plaxico's brother, NAME will join your colony..."
and "You have rescued NAME and HE has joined your group"

Couple of things from mods that'd I'd like to see implemented (I probably won't post super often after this, so I'll get my thoughts out here).
-refridgerators
-fishing
-run & fire, but only for light weapons...
-"haul urgently"

There were other mods I enjoyed, but those are the ones that I think were really fundamental. I removed all my mods to try out the naked scenario, and it's provided pros/cons.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 17, 2018, 11:07:11 PM
I'm in the middle of the first summer with a tribal start on a tropical swamp with Cassandra Rough.

Bridges feel AWESOME. I don't know how they fit in power-wise, but they make building a decent base on a swamp actually possible. I haven't even checked how much they cost - you could double it and I would still feel great about them (N.B. I am playing on a map with plenty of wood).

I don't have a good animal handler, and the alpacas are staying far away from my base. So I haven't gotten a feel for the herding nerfs.

Sculpting seems to be much faster? I don't see it in the patch notes explicitly, but you allude to it being better. Anyway, I am filling the barracks with small wooden sculptures pretty easily.

I ran out of medicine because my grower couldn't plant healroot at the start. It's not a big deal because this map has year-round growing, but this would be difficult to recover from on a snowy map.

Item decay while outside was annoying at first, but not a big deal now that I have a separate indoor stockpile for items that actually matter. I've also designated a small stockpile in the lake for garbage. Nifty

I got a real chuckle reading some of the "flavorful randomized text" in social chat.

Two factions (Savage Tribe and Rough Outlander Union) both suddenly decided to dislike me more (-20 to -30) at the same time. The event explained that they revert to -80 over time, but this feels really artificial. It would feel more natural if they sent an occasional messenger demanding tribute, and then I could appease, refuse, or even attack the messenger.
Title: Got this error log and can't access to game
Post by: Blackie on June 17, 2018, 11:50:06 PM
Hello tynan! I got this error log and can't access to Unstable beta. hope this error log be used as data!

Code: [Select]
Mono path[0] = 'D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/Managed'
Mono path[1] = 'D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/Mono'
Mono config path = 'D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/Mono/etc'
PlayerConnection initialized from D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data (debug = 0)
PlayerConnection initialized network socket : 0.0.0.0 55190
Multi-casting "[IP] 192.168.0.4 [Port] 55190 [Flags] 2 [Guid] 2608585299 [EditorId] 3664984983 [Version] 1048832 [Id] WindowsPlayer(Taeyoon) [Debug] 0" to [225.0.0.222:54997]...
Started listening to [0.0.0.0:55190]
PlayerConnection already initialized - listening to [0.0.0.0:55190]
Player data archive not found at `D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/data.unity3d`, using local filesystemInitialize engine version: 5.6.5f1 (2cac56bf7bb6)
GfxDevice: creating device client; threaded=1
Direct3D:
    Version:  Direct3D 9.0c [nvldumd.dll 23.21.13.8813]
    Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
    Vendor:   NVIDIA
    VRAM:     2017 MB (via DXGI)
    Caps:     Shader=30 DepthRT=1 NativeDepth=1 NativeShadow=1 DF16=0 INTZ=1 NULL=1 RESZ=0 SlowINTZ=0 ATOC=1 BC4=1 BC5=1
Begin MonoManager ReloadAssembly
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NAudio.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NAudio.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NVorbis.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NVorbis.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\TextMeshPro-1.0.55.56.0b11.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\TextMeshPro-1.0.55.56.0b11.dll into Unity Child Domain
- Completed reload, in  0.044 seconds
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.Core.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.Xml.Linq.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.Xml.dll (this message is harmless)
WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Hidden/VR/BlitCopyFromTexArray' - Pass '' has no vertex shader
WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Hidden/VR/BlitCopyFromTexArray' - Setting to default shader.
<RI> Initializing input.

<RI> Input initialized.

desktop: 1920x1080 60Hz; virtual: 1920x1080 at 0,0
<RI> Initialized touch support.

UnloadTime: 2.781465 ms
RimWorld 1.0.1936 rev831
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:Log(Object)
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:48)
RimWorld.VersionControl:LogVersionNumber() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\Version\VersionControl.cs:83)
Verse.Root:CheckGlobalInit() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:82)
Verse.Root:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:38)
Verse.Root_Entry:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:16)
 
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 48)

INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor can only be called from the main thread.
Constructors and field initializers will be executed from the loading thread when loading a scene.
Don't use this function in the constructor or field initializers, instead move initialization code to the Awake or Start function.
UnityEngine.Cursor:INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor(Texture2D, Vector2&, CursorMode)
UnityEngine.Cursor:SetCursor(Texture2D, Vector2, CursorMode) (at C:\buildslave\unity\build\artifacts\generated\common\runtime\CursorBindings.gen.cs:39)
Verse.CustomCursor:Activate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\CustomCursor.cs:23)
Verse.PrefsData:Apply() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\PrefsData.cs:98)
Verse.Prefs:Apply() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:191)
Verse.Prefs:set_LangFolderName(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:86)
Verse.LanguageDatabase:LoadAllMetadata() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Localization\LanguageDatabase.cs:72)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:DoPlayLoad() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:99)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:LoadAllPlayData(Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:32)
Verse.Root:<Start>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:58)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)

[C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Scripting/ScriptingThreadAndSerializationSafeCheck.cpp line 81]
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/CursorBindings.gen.cs Line: 39)

Exception from asynchronous event: UnityEngine.UnityException: INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor can only be called from the main thread.
Constructors and field initializers will be executed from the loading thread when loading a scene.
Don't use this function in the constructor or field initializers, instead move initialization code to the Awake or Start function.
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Cursor:INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor (UnityEngine.Texture2D,UnityEngine.Vector2&,UnityEngine.CursorMode)
  at UnityEngine.Cursor.SetCursor (UnityEngine.Texture2D texture, Vector2 hotspot, CursorMode cursorMode) [0x00005] in C:\buildslave\unity\build\artifacts\generated\common\runtime\CursorBindings.gen.cs:39
  at Verse.CustomCursor.Activate () [0x00001] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\CustomCursor.cs:23
  at Verse.PrefsData.Apply () [0x0000c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\PrefsData.cs:98
  at Verse.Prefs.Apply () [0x00006] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:191
  at Verse.Prefs.set_LangFolderName (System.String value) [0x00001] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:86
  at Verse.LanguageDatabase.LoadAllMetadata () [0x000f9] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Localization\LanguageDatabase.cs:72
  at Verse.PlayDataLoader.DoPlayLoad () [0x0002f] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:99
  at Verse.PlayDataLoader.LoadAllPlayData (Boolean recovering) [0x00027] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:32
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:459)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
 
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)

Tried to use an uninitialized DefOf of type ShaderTypeDef. DefOfs are initialized right after all defs all loaded. Uninitialized DefOfs will return only nulls. (hint: don't use DefOfs as default field values in Defs, try to resolve them in ResolveReferences() instead)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogWarning(Object)
Verse.Log:Warning(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:58)
RimWorld.DefOfHelper:EnsureInitializedInCtor(Type) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\DefOf.cs:79)
RimWorld.ShaderTypeDefOf:.cctor() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\DefOf.cs:2479)
Verse.ThingDef:<PostLoad>m__3() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:726)
Verse.ThingDef:<PostLoad>m__3() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:723)
Verse.LongEventHandler:ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:489)
Verse.LongEventHandler:UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:402)
Verse.LongEventHandler:LongEventsUpdate(Boolean&) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:257)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:102)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
 
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 58)

Could not execute post-long-event action. Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Verse.GraphicData.Init () [0x0002d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:131
  at Verse.GraphicData.get_Graphic () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:90
  at Verse.ThingDef.<PostLoad>m__3 () [0x00028] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:725
  at Verse.LongEventHandler.ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished () [0x00036] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:489
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.LongEventHandler:ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:493)
Verse.LongEventHandler:UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:402)
Verse.LongEventHandler:LongEventsUpdate(Boolean&) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:257)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:102)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
 
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)

Could not execute post-long-event action. Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Verse.GraphicData.Init () [0x0002d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:131
  at Verse.GraphicData.get_Graphic () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:90
  at Verse.ThingDef.<PostLoad>m__3 () [0x00028] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:725
  at Verse.LongEventHandler.ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished () [0x00036] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:489
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.LongEventHandler:ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:493)
Verse.LongEventHandler:UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:402)
Verse.LongEventHandler:LongEventsUpdate(Boolean&) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:257)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:102)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
 
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)


{after this, <Could not execute post-long-event action.  Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object ~ (Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)> stuff is just Repeating itself.}

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dashthechinchilla on June 18, 2018, 01:01:45 AM
I really appreciate that a lot of my favorite mod features are now vanilla. It is a real salute to the work done by those modders.

I am slightly disappointed with the animal changes, but I get it. The animal kill army was a real easy button.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Modo44 on June 18, 2018, 01:56:56 AM
Do dormant hives spawned at map creation still attack as soon as it gets cold?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Razghul on June 18, 2018, 02:14:42 AM
Does cleanliness of the kitchen affect food poison chance in 1.0 ? If so cleanliness should be highlighted in the "room-view (impressiveness). It is highlighted in a laboratory, but not in the kitchen. I´m confused :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: saulysw on June 18, 2018, 02:19:39 AM
Awesome, thank you dev team! Reading through the change notes (and really savouring them!), these selected 4 items struck me as being changes that would impact my playstyle in particular --

-Frag grenades are no longer a valid hunting weapon  << Very sad about this, as it was my fav way of dealing with Alphabeavers
-Settling very near another faction base will now cause faction relations loss every quadrum because of anger due to territorial encroachment  << Makes sense. I always set up as close to another faction as I could to minimise travel (one free tile between). I have to balance that now. I wonder what a safe distance is?
--Sowing trees takes 8x longer. << Yikes! 8x? Tree sowing was already not fast so now... so slow.
--Healroot grow days 6.5 -> 12, sow and harvest work increased significantly. << I've had colonies really hanging on a thread of the healroot crop coming in, particularly early game in biomes where there isn't much or any. This change seems fairly harsh.

On saying that, I have not played 1.0 yet, only found out about it a few minutes ago, but I'm REALLY keen to get into the new Rimworld! Yay! I'll report back on my progress (or demise more likely).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 18, 2018, 02:21:19 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I've been reading carefully and we've got a new build going up with some fixes and balance changes.

Less predators, less raspberries, slower goodwill shift with other factions over time, a bunch more naming content, richer deep mining, and a variety of bugfixes. Oh, and the game will auto-use backstory translations even if the identifier numbers don't match exactly (because they change when the description does).

Much of this won't take effect until you start a new game.

Please keep feedback coming!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: name_here on June 18, 2018, 05:45:46 AM
Clicking anywhere outside bill settings no longer close it.

Can we have b18 behavior back please.

https://i.imgur.com/zeeUCH8.png
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: saulysw on June 18, 2018, 06:25:16 AM
Brief story of colony "Doomed 2". Naked Brutality ('cos - was not?), Cassandra Classic, Some Challenge. Temperate Forest with road, river and some hills. Decent distance away from other colonies.

Landed. Harvested some oversized berries first to have something to eat, then chopping down trees. Realized that it is actually liberating not to have to haul a bunch of crap as first thing to do. Made a nook by a mountain the base and roofed it and walled it, some steel there too as a bonus. Got a bed and table to eat at. Started a farm. There was a Lynx lurking about but it did me some favours and killed a few small animals but didn't fully eat them so I took what was left. Got a wood fired cooking table and butcher table going. A visitor came by and I quickly mined 2 silver to buy some basic meds and pemmican, not much though. They left. Things were looking ok. Then she ate a bad meal and got food poisoning, and a few moments later crashed on the floor, helpless. That was when the squirrel went mad, and circled the house but despite a door being open did not attack. When she recovered, the squirrel had disappeared.

Then, a Shaman called Tyspin was being chased and wanted refuge. I took him in - I needed more hands.. but this was not a good idea. He popped on the map and had clothes at least but was ... a go-juice addict and worse, non-violent. Ugh. Not what I needed. He could cook well and do most other things, so still might turn out ok, I was hopeful. Then the chaser appeared with ... an LMG in his hands. Oh dear. My starting pawn only had a club. I managed to lure him into my base for hand-to-hand but was pretty lame at melee and she went down early and got kidnapped. Down to this one non-violent go-juice addict Tyspin then. Not much time passed before the first real raid, and what could I do? I should have built traps I suppose, but I only think of that now. He got clubbed like the baby seal he was and my story ended.

So how was all this compared to previous versions? Starting naked and with nothing is supposed to be hard, and it was, to a point. I'm used to rich explorer so it seemed normal. That food poisoning is a bitch. Other than that, I noticed a few obvious changes, including some fantastic quality of life changes like being able to expand a zone just by clicking on it then the expand option is there. Pawns seem more efficient in general and need slightly less micro managing to get them to do what you want. I didn't get too far into the game, obviously, but from what I could see it was all good stuff, well done all involved. No bugs or issues seen. Want to get back into the next adventure!

Here is how it ended... https://photos.app.goo.gl/SpMe4PcVMd7TjrRQ9
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ChJees on June 18, 2018, 07:06:07 AM
Since you guys squished together leathers why not do the same for meats? Would cut down on the clutter a lot.

So instead of having 2 x squirrel meat and 73 x rat meat you now got 75 x rodent\animal meat. Was a spontaneous thought in the Discord server. Make a helluva lot of sense to me.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bones on June 18, 2018, 07:19:01 AM
Since you guys squished together leathers why not do the same for meats? Would cut down on the clutter a lot.

So instead of having 2 x squirrel meat and 73 x rat meat you now got 75 x rodent\animal meat. Was a spontaneous thought in the Discord server. Make a helluva lot of sense to me.

I agree, it would make sense to divide if there were different bonuses for eating different meats.

Also, having lots of different types of meat makes it difficult to manage the nutrient paste dispenser since you have to manually remove the meat from the hopper if the number is lower than sufficient to make another nutrient meal.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 18, 2018, 08:32:55 AM
An user posted this and I heavily agree with this small improvement:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/8rvshx/with_10_coming_soon_i_really_hope_this_annoying/

I also think that since the heavy blaster is like a sniper, it should be shaped sniper like... Like a long charge rifle. Instead of a potato.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 18, 2018, 08:55:58 AM
So far in all my games between A16 and B18, I used to schedule the last hour before sleep for Recreation so that pawns who travel far for any purpose be it mining, foraging, wood cutting etc, would return "home" and "time" better their sleep. But since version 1.0 UN, I will have to figure another way around...because pawns are wandering off to map borders...which is both stupid and dangerous. Any raid will instantly catch my colonists. Please revert this behavior to older versions. Make it so that colonists avoid getting at least 25~50 tiles away from the map border or the white line that prohibits any further construction. This behavior is mindless and unwise.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 18, 2018, 09:34:01 AM
What about hostile spacers from ancient ruins that keep attacking pawns and animals, destroying everything built by a player and when there's nothing left, they wander around the map? The problem is that they won't leave the map even if they starve.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jimyoda on June 18, 2018, 10:04:52 AM
So far in all my games between A16 and B18, I used to schedule the last hour before sleep for Recreation so that pawns who travel far for any purpose be it mining, foraging, wood cutting etc, would return "home" and "time" better their sleep. But since version 1.0 UN, I will have to figure another way around...because pawns are wandering off to map borders...which is both stupid and dangerous. Any raid will instantly catch my colonists. Please revert this behavior to older versions. Make it so that colonists avoid getting at least 25~50 tiles away from the map border or the white line that prohibits any further construction. This behavior is mindless and unwise.
That could worthy of a bug report, though you haven't made the details clear. Maybe the pawn(s) 'wandered' off in a 'wandering' mental break. Or maybe an actual bug made them ignore their allowed area. I'm just guessing. Perhaps just upload a save file so we can see what's happening.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: xion1088 on June 18, 2018, 10:09:46 AM
Tynan man love your game and what you're doing with it, I love it so much that I once worked in the Spanish translations, if you or the Spanish team still needs help I'm up for you but can you please remove the chance of bugs spawning when deep drilling? That's some scary stuff.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 18, 2018, 10:11:05 AM
I meant "Wandering" as a Recreation/Joy when they are just walking around. Until B18, pawns would walk relatively close to the base. But now in V1.0 they are walking up to the map borders, in a very suicidal length. They must stay somewhat close.

I mean, until now, even if they went outside your city walls...they wouldn't go all the way out of the safe zone. This behavior I'm analyzing in Unrestricted, I never had a problem before...but now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 18, 2018, 10:27:21 AM
So, something that has some potential to be somewhat overpowered is the fact that flak pants can be worn underneath plate/power armour. Since the former occupies the OnSkin layer and the latter occupies the Middle and Shell layers, it'd be possible to achieve some insane resistance ratings for a character's legs.

This could easily be solved by having flak pants occupy the 'Middle' layer too, maybe.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 18, 2018, 10:35:18 AM
I meant "Wandering" as a Recreation/Joy when they are just walking around. Until B18, pawns would walk relatively close to the base. But now in V1.0 they are walking up to the map borders, in a very suicidal length. They must stay somewhat close.

I mean, until now, even if they went outside your city walls...they wouldn't go all the way out of the safe zone. This behavior I'm analyzing in Unrestricted, I never had a problem before...but now.

Nothing at all changed with how walking paths are generated, this is entirely random.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ScottyFoxxy on June 18, 2018, 10:37:03 AM
From my experience on the unstable build it seems as if some multicore rendering has been implemented into the final build of rimworld. Is this true?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 18, 2018, 10:40:52 AM
From my experience on the unstable build it seems as if some multicore rendering has been implemented into the final build of rimworld. Is this true?

I'm afraid not, but we did optimize stuff.

From user POV, optimizations are equivalent. Multithreading is just another type of optimization.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 18, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
The assigning of workbenches to a specific colonists are great! However, it doesn't mentioned if someone is passionate or not. Perhaps a little flame icon next to the number?

As people have mentioned, the randomness of going between food binges, sad wander, and cataconic attack is a wee bit too much.

I am personally not a fan of the increased herbal med growth rate. You are pretty much at the mercy of RNG when it comes to wounds, and while we can take advantage of cover and the like, it feels to newb-unfriendly. Also, needing to rely on merchants for medicine is equally unreliable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 18, 2018, 11:07:22 AM
I support Ser Kitteh in that matter. Herbal medicine already isn't that good to begin with, but forcing you to go on without any kind of meds for longer is too harsh. Now that hp state of a weapon doesn't affect its accuracy especially, since pirates used to be missing all the time because their weapons are in crap condition. Now they hit more often.

Also -20% to all plant yields? All that does is forces us to have bigger fields, having less space for anything else left. On small maps its a problem. So why?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 18, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
From my experience on the unstable build it seems as if some multicore rendering has been implemented into the final build of rimworld. Is this true?

I'm afraid not, but we did optimize stuff.

From user POV, optimizations are equivalent. Multithreading is just another type of optimization.
I would call this great news. Vanilla is faster, but it still leaves idle CPU cores for mods to exploit. I think only one mod released for B18 actually use more than one core, but one means it's possible and who knows what we will see in the future. Also optimizing by using less CPU time to do the same will lower power usage while optimizing by using more cores will increase power usage. In other words RimWorld got more laptop/battery friendly.

What strikes me the most about the 1.0 changes is actually 64 bit. It's really annoying to have a game in B18, which grows to be so close to the memory limit that the game becomes unstable. It's my experience that I reach this point way before the CPU power becomes an issue.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 18, 2018, 11:13:20 AM
So I just saved someone on an escape mod. And when I mean saved, I meant captured. Said person was one of my colonist's mother, and capturing her made me an enemy of one of the factions. I didn't realise this was so, because most escape pod pawns are not faction related. Was this changed recently?

EDIT: To go into more detail, I rescued her, put her on one of my medical beds, and she just up and left. Wanting to keep her, I arrested her and shoved her in the prison. THEN the faction becomes hostile. I am admittedly spoiled by Hospitality, and expected a "HECAP would like to join". Not aware if this is a bug or by designed, regardless, something to look into.

I will argue that the rescued pawn should say along the lines of "HECAP would like to join" like in Hospitality or "HECAP thanked you and is off his/her way". Now most of us have a million hours logged into the game, but a new player who doesn't understand the nuance will reasonably be confused at them not joining. Therefore a notification would be very welcomed.

This unstable branch should be viewed in two ways: the 10,000 hour veteran and the player who just picked it up. I think it would be worthwhile to imagine ourselves as the latter, and have gameplay design that is newb friendly.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 18, 2018, 11:36:27 AM
I'll edit this post as I'm testing the development build with issues I have encountered:

v1.0.1938
- When I try to settle close to a village, there's a notification tab that relations with factions whose these close villages belong to will be worsened. It includes pirate bands, which is kinda useless as they're permanent hostile. I'd like this to be fixed, the notification about settling close to pirates is not needed (I only tested when I tried to settle with multiple villages, one of those included pirates; I don't know how it works with pirate villages alone).
- Naked brutality means naked brutality. No industrial research, please. We're supposed to begin from scratch.
- There's a glitch that if you decide to build a wall and then decide to put a door instead (I did it after resources were put on the wall, before building), it doesn't remove the wall. The trumpy colonist will build the wall first, then remove it and build a door.
- Mining with 0lvl skill is really, really, really slower than in B18. Is it intended? My pawn took like 2 hours to make a single hit on vein steel.
v1.0.1939
- Objects don't deteriorate despite being outside under the open sky.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 18, 2018, 11:37:49 AM
What strikes me the most about the 1.0 changes is actually 64 bit. It's really annoying to have a game in B18, which grows to be so close to the memory limit that the game becomes unstable. It's my experience that I reach this point way before the CPU power becomes an issue.

Did i miss that somewhere in the changelog? My version s still 32 bit, though. At least for Windows.

UPD: found a shortcut in game files. Holy shit. Damn. This alone makes it the best mod-friendly update for Rimworld! Now I can ditch my Linux and play on Windows only finally. Hurray.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 18, 2018, 11:45:35 AM
Since you guys squished together leathers why not do the same for meats? Would cut down on the clutter a lot.

So instead of having 2 x squirrel meat and 73 x rat meat you now got 75 x rodent\animal meat. Was a spontaneous thought in the Discord server. Make a helluva lot of sense to me.

I agree, it would make sense to divide if there were different bonuses for eating different meats.

Also, having lots of different types of meat makes it difficult to manage the nutrient paste dispenser since you have to manually remove the meat from the hopper if the number is lower than sufficient to make another nutrient meal.

It does make sense to make much fewer meats at least. Regular, insect, human. It isn't like the recipes differentiate it anyway. At least when the leathers were separate it is because you could not mix and match, but that has never been the case between different animal meats.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 18, 2018, 11:49:14 AM
What strikes me the most about the 1.0 changes is actually 64 bit. It's really annoying to have a game in B18, which grows to be so close to the memory limit that the game becomes unstable. It's my experience that I reach this point way before the CPU power becomes an issue.

Did i miss that somewhere in the changelog? My version s still 32 bit, though. At least for Windows.

UPD: found a shortcut in game files. Holy shit. Damn. This alone makes it the best mod-friendly update for Rimworld! Now I can ditch my Linux and play on Windows only finally. Hurray.

If you click the "Play" button while in your Steam library, it also brings up an option box to select 32 or 64 bit. So Steam overlay and the like runs that way, think people who were just linking to the 64 bit executable were not getting the Steam overlay and possibly no Steam screenshot functionality.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 18, 2018, 11:50:50 AM
Ah, well, i just use my desktop shortcuts and i also absolutely don't care for added steam fucntionality, so its all fine. I just didn't see the promt about 64 bit, because i used old shortcut. But damn. Finally no memory restriction. How nice.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lech on June 18, 2018, 12:10:23 PM
I just read log from taming wild monkey. It has refused to go back to community. Dunno if this is supposed to show for totally wild animals.

Since you put a lot of QoL functions from mods into game, could you add alert about pawns/animals being hunted?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Rulin on June 18, 2018, 12:15:32 PM
I started a new colony yesterday. (Day 39 - Phoebie Chillout - Easy)
Really like the new windmill. It offers a solid source for electricity early on. And you don't need to worry about batteries and shortcuts for some time. Small suggestion here: How about giving underwater cables a bit more hp? They cost eight times as much and are probably thicker and better insulated. ;)

In general I always try to have some sort of livestock (for immersion and food), this time I tried pigs, but when there is only a female version on sale, it can take quite a while to find a partner for her.
Then lab, same problem here. Merchant even had two male versions.
I guess gender distribution is pretty much random, but this makes it hard to start breeding.

Then at some point a tamed herd of chickens appeard so I guess I will be doing that. But in the end, it is not what I wanted.
Chickens are also very fragile and not that easy to handle. They eat quite a lot of gras, and when you increase their area, the eggs will be all over the place. Too bad they don't use their sleeping spots for laying eggs. (maybe I should try building some sleeping boxes...)

I just had a bear attack one of my pigs. Not sure if this was a new fleeing behaviour but the bear appeared to be more skittish once I start shooting at him. He stopped biting my pig and fleed out of range, then after a few seconds he started to forget what happened an was coming back for miss piggy.

pew pew again, he ded.

Overall this felt better than having to deal with a bear that is in terminator mode ignoring everyting what's going on around him. I liked it.

Winter is coming (septober), I hope there will be snow. Also, atm all trees are still greenish. Shouldn't they change their color at some point? (Edit: They start getting yellow at around 12th septober)

Edit: I just formed my second caravan to rescue someone. My colony has 7 members.
The first mission was ambushed by 4 well armed raiders. They attacked from almost every side, while my colonists where right in the middle of the map without much cover.
Was a bit brutal but I managed to down 2 while the other raiders fled.
In the end I lost one of my colonists due to an infection. The rescued survivor was catatonic for 3-4 days so I had to stay there quite long. Another colonist helped out with medicine and food but help came to late for the infection.
Next time I make sure I have sleeping bags and good medicine with me.
I also wasn't sure if I can form the caravan when someone is incapable of walking so probably staying so long was a bit unnecessary.
It all seemed like an easy retrieval because it was only 0.4 days away from me.

Fingers crossed this next map isn't a trap...
Edit2: Oh great, he is an luci addict and automatically joined the colony once I approached.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 18, 2018, 01:18:52 PM
Yeah as someone said before, would be nice to have meats done same way leathers are now. Its essentially the same thing, save for human meat and insect meat which give moodlets. So it'd be good if we could just have 3 kinds - meat, human flesh and insect meat. That would hugely help freezer cluttering for sure.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dashthechinchilla on June 18, 2018, 01:23:20 PM
I like the way armor completely deflects a shot now. I didn't notice if there was any knockback on an armor block but it might be a good balance. Even a blocked bullet imparts kinetic energy.

I got to experience the new scythers. I opened a vault and found a blade and lancer inside. The blade immediately tried to chase down my colonists and died. The lancer just hung out in the vault, even when I popped in and shot it. Eventually I sent my colonists to bed and dealt with it in the morning.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gillsminnow on June 18, 2018, 01:42:49 PM
I think stack sizes need to be bigger. 75 is way too low I think.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: klun on June 18, 2018, 02:10:00 PM
Gotta play some more when Im back for work but so far

Im loving the armor reflection
Allys factions
graphics looks cleaner
Some mental debuff looks like they are stacking(im gonna double check )

Overall feels like a solid 1.0 update,  any plans for after you complete/launch ships going back to world selection or perhaps another random world generated for a  somekind of endless mode?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ZorbaTHut on June 18, 2018, 02:27:48 PM
Obvious solution: Move the loop to a new method.

Done. I've actually function-ized a lot of things in that function, both for readability reasons and for modability reasons. Let me know if this doesn't do the job, but I think it will.

To be completely honest, I kind of like the old approach better. Now all files are merged into one and then the patches are applied one by one. In B18, all patches are applied to each file and then the patched files are merged. While it may be slower, the file by file approach provides the modname and filename of the file being patched and ModCheck reads that with Harmony. Not only can this be included in error messages, it can also be used actively by PatchOperation.

In general, I think you might be the exception here; most modders weren't doing anything of that sort, and we kinda have to cater to the common case over the uncommon case.

However, as part of the unified XML generation, we also generate a big dictionary from XmlNode to mod information, and that can be used to figure out which XmlNodes are part of what mod or file. I've made sure this dictionary is passed into the new ApplyPatches() function; we're not using it for any of our own functionality, but it's available for any optimizations you want to make with it.

Edit: This will be in the next build, unless Tynan is doing a build right now (he might be), in which case it'll be in the build after the next build.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Revshawn on June 18, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
I think that it would be best for in the finished version for us to know the skills and traits of those we are taking in when an event like "Refugee chased" or "Call for help" hits and scale the colonists to be worth it. As a small colony you have to turn down everyone because it's just not worth the risk of getting someone with an addition, non-violent, or a wimp.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Vito1189 on June 18, 2018, 04:36:55 PM
Greetings uncle Tynnan,i have 1 question:
Will i lose my unstable savegames when 1.0 will be done?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 18, 2018, 04:42:37 PM
** I'm gonna stop updating this post now *** It is probably way to buried now to be read.

3rd Attempt at Cassandra extreme naked. Temperate forest 40/60. Map type small hills, ancient asphalt roads and huge river. I'll list bugs on top, things that felt strange in the middle and story on bottom. I'll condense story a lot more this time. This post will be updated until they die.

Bugs:
(Maybe) Colonist will path through river water when hunting. They path around water when they already got the wet debuff even if there is a ridiculously shorter path.

Strange: Can't toggle off things that need refueling. Making me waste trips or deconstruct them.
-Watermill... I love it soo much but it is brokenly op. Constant 1400 volts in a very compact space. I see no reason to ever build a windmill. Maybe solar panels when I need to power turrets.
-Quality of escaped refugees way better. I extremely extremely approve.


Backstory

Huge river came with a nice bridge from the road. Goal is to use no kill box at all but walls in attempt to funnel them into the river to attack. Wander joined on 14th day, incapable of violence...

15th day in first raid vs a single guy with a gun. Turkey goes man hunter at same time. Resulting in an infection from wounds.

Second raid and a boar and alpaca self tamed between days 20-23.  Meteorite landed on my house after I finally got one built...

Day 43 Accepted a escaped prisoner, super good guy. Turned out to be 8 really well armed guys. 1 incendiary launcher. My machine gun pistols gave me the ability to fire a round and hide before getting shot. They hit 3 traps I laid in cover spots around corners eventually. That was the most fun fight I've ever had in rimworld. Shortly after the fight toxic fallout... Most annoying event in game.

Day 46 small weak raid of 7. Died before touching me.

Day 48 I did my first rescue colony caravan trip. 1 gun scyther. Got really lucky and scyther missed 4 shots before dieing. The person I rescued was good enough to be useful but gained two infections. That barely barely got ahead before getting home.  Personally I think the risk reward of the entire situation was perfect.

Day 55 Raid, I thought it was 5 but turns out to be like 10-14 people in 3 different groups (tribals). They came from two different corners of the map. Really threw me off but it was successful with very minor injuries.

Day 60(day my last attempt failed) All essentials to a productive base are built (hospital, prisoner, barn, dining/rec ect). 8 chickens joined randomly. Moods are through the roof and now I am just scrambling to think of improvements.

Day 65 - 20-30 boomrat manhunter pack attack. Able to kill them with minmal damage to base. Colonist sustained moderate damage. This event probably would of ended the campain for people not ready for extreme difficulty. It was also at least 3 times harder to deal with than raids.

Day 69 raiders very weak (4 with daggers and the 2 with guns were awful quality). Died so fast without even needing much strategy...

Day 77 Raider group of 8 very well armed. Shotguns, grenades, lauchers. 1 colonist went cadontonic prior because loosing her lover that died in a world quest I failed to complete >.>. I thought I was doomed but the grenader accidently injuried a lot of his men. Won it without any major injuries and captured my first prisoner.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: AchooBlessYou on June 18, 2018, 05:35:36 PM
My temperate forest maps are having a hard time keeping grass around. I've also noticed that the grass is less dense at the start of the game. I reverted back to .18 and generated a temperate forest map and almost every tile had grass. In 1.0 grass is very sparse at the start and is quickly eaten.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 18, 2018, 06:44:07 PM
Just got a "Chased Refugee" who is an "Exotic Chef"...only that he doesn't cook... ... ...

(https://i.imgur.com/1KxZBKY.png)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: YoruOokami on June 18, 2018, 09:10:58 PM
I'd have to agree combining all meats together would be a good idea, though not in the same simplistic way others are saying of just meat, human flesh and insect meat.
Instead, I'd say that combining meat from rodents into rodent flesh, beast flesh (Warg, Wolf, Dog, Cat/Big cats etc) into one, Cattle flesh (Cows, Pigs, Muffalo etc) into one and Avian flesh (Chicken etc) into one is a better idea, I think that just having animal flesh is too simple and boring for a game like this but thats just my opinion.
(Thrumbo meat (Its own unique type, maybe with a unique texture?) could be a higher mood buff like +5 because its so hard and rare to get?)

Taking that further, you could attach different thoughts to eating each raw/cooked (Cattle flesh/Avian flesh giving a slight increase (+2), beast flesh being neutral (0) and rodent flesh giving a slight decrease (-2) to thoughts. Human flesh and Insect flesh could/would remain the same.

Hope that's of some use to you guys and girls on the dev team :)

(Editted to add something I just thought of after sending)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: GabMSouza on June 18, 2018, 09:44:40 PM
Tynan, you're the best developer! I'm speechless

 :) :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 18, 2018, 11:55:23 PM
Healroot now takes 10 days instead of 15. I find this more reasonable, as those 30 meds would last a considerable time and allow herbal meds to be grown. I appreciate the change. :)

EDIT: Okay I just found out that Glitterworld meds have become Ultratech meds. I am not a fan. Glittertech meds, sure. Glitter meds, also fine. Just don't get rid of the Glitter! It's such a Rimworld thing! When I see Glitter, I think Rimworld because of its connotations. So please, keep the Glitter name.

EDIT2: Forbid command doesn't work on structures, so I can't build a ton of walls and use forbid to hold it off. Please allow not yet to build things be forbidable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: kraftwerkd on June 19, 2018, 12:34:01 AM
Similar to Yoshidas post, I recently got a "shooting frenzy" inspiration for a pawn who ironically has very little shooting skill.  That I find a little odd, shouldn't inspirations affect already established skills, i.e. 6 with a flame?  I feel like just ignoring the inspiration because the skill is so low.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 19, 2018, 01:39:35 AM
Since Mr. Tynan asked for feedback on Recreation:

My colonist (I'm starting with one: although not the new scenario, because that's too rough!) doesn't want to do Solitary Relaxation after I build a Horseshoe Pin, even if his tolerance for Gaming is at 70%+ and his tolerance for Solitary Relaxation is at 20%. He'll still use the Horseshoe Pin, and if I uninstall the pin, he'd rather go work than meditate or pray, despite the fact that he's currently set to "Anything" and he's completely "Recreation-starved." I have a climate controlled bedroom for him, so temperature shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: Even while his schedule is set to Recreation, my dude still refuses to pray/meditate.

 Could we get a means to designate a spot for our colonists to pray/meditate? Maybe with an upgrade to a leather/cloth "Relaxation Mat"?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 19, 2018, 01:53:54 AM
Some colonists just don't do praying/meditation, but going for walks and cloudwatching fulfill the same recreation type.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 19, 2018, 01:59:18 AM
Thanks for the speedy reply.

Is there an easy way to tell beforehand that a colonist won't meditate/pray? Because that's a pretty severe debuff: it's a lot easier to heat an indoor space than to get better clothing.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lech on June 19, 2018, 02:07:52 AM
I saw that monkeys have advanced trainability, but can't haul. Could we get another line, that would tell us about usefulness of animal, instead of it's intelligence? And still can't set all pawns to area 1 with one click.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 19, 2018, 03:14:21 AM
There has always been an issue with Colonists preferring horseshoes (or hoopstones for tribals) instead of chest, TV or poker. I think this is a long time bug instead of a new thing. I think it would be best if Colonists preferred or are able to time chess/poker sessions more accurately.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Oblitus on June 19, 2018, 03:22:33 AM
I'd have to agree combining all meats together would be a good idea, though not in the same simplistic way others are saying of just meat, human flesh and insect meat.
Instead, I'd say that combining meat from rodents into rodent flesh, beast flesh (Warg, Wolf, Dog, Cat/Big cats etc) into one, Cattle flesh (Cows, Pigs, Muffalo etc) into one and Avian flesh (Chicken etc) into one is a better idea, I think that just having animal flesh is too simple and boring for a game like this but thats just my opinion.
(Thrumbo meat (Its own unique type, maybe with a unique texture?) could be a higher mood buff like +5 because its so hard and rare to get?)

Taking that further, you could attach different thoughts to eating each raw/cooked (Cattle flesh/Avian flesh giving a slight increase (+2), beast flesh being neutral (0) and rodent flesh giving a slight decrease (-2) to thoughts. Human flesh and Insect flesh could/would remain the same.

Hope that's of some use to you guys and girls on the dev team :)

(Editted to add something I just thought of after sending)
Overcomplication does not necessarily make something better. There are three meat categories already (neutral meat, rancid/insect meat and tabooed/human meat) and that is enough. Merging them changes nothing except saving storage space.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 19, 2018, 04:47:53 AM
Winter rolls around.

My Freezer is filled with potatoes.

And every. single. creature. came inside and ate almost half of it.

Before they just left, but seeing every boomalope laser running to my freezer? That's bad.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 19, 2018, 05:16:11 AM
Number of falling ship chunks feels off.

I wanted to keep my tribal colony on medieval tech level... it is day #108 and I got 145 components just from dismantling ship chunks (not counting ~20 components that I lost in some incident). Isn't it too much?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mehni on June 19, 2018, 05:23:24 AM
Quote
--Rice, strawberries, healroot, corn, cotton min fertility 50% -> 100%.

This doesn't accurately reflect the current state. PlantBase has a fertilityMin of 70% (as does Corn, explicitly and redundantly), but no plant has a minimum fertility requirement higher than that.

Minor nitpick aside, this is a good release! My favourite QoL enhancements include the re-ordering of colonists portraits, paintables and cycling through alerts. I've wanted that last one since forever!

EDIT:

What's up with pawns using their ranged weapons in fist fights? They actively fire their guns, even when told to melee attack. Intentional or bug?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Syrchalis on June 19, 2018, 07:57:25 AM
Quote
--Rice, strawberries, healroot, corn, cotton min fertility 50% -> 100%.

This doesn't accurately reflect the current state. PlantBase has a fertilityMin of 70% (as does Corn, explicitly and redundantly), but no plant has a minimum fertility requirement higher than that.
I was already wondering about that one, it seemed odd.

In general what is written in the patch notes seems really good. The bigger changes I cannot really judge yet, but the QoL stuff includes many things I have in my game via mods in B18, or things that annoyed me because there is no mod for it. Examples: Smoothing walls (mod exists), Opportunistic hauling (mod exists, but I used different ones), doctors draw medicine from the same stack (GOD WAS THAT ANNOYING).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 19, 2018, 09:20:53 AM
Number of falling ship chunks feels off.

I wanted to keep my tribal colony on medieval tech level... it is day #108 and I got 145 components just from dismantling ship chunks (not counting ~20 components that I lost in some incident). Isn't it too much?

For the rest of us that want to be the bionic overlords components don't come fast enough. I think the chunks are fair atm and for your type of gameplay they should just be seen as a thing to sell for wealth.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Soggy Noodle on June 19, 2018, 09:22:23 AM
While trying to update one of my mods i came across the fact TexPath was changed to TexturePath so i did a solution wide swap for those 2 nodes. now it tells me some texpaths are empty or null, which is true because i changed them all. is there a reason that not all Defs use TexturePath now or is it an actuall bug because you forgot to take out some of the texpaths?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tekuki on June 19, 2018, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: Tynan
--Shield belt cost (3x component, 60x plasteel, 5x uranium ) -> (2x component, 50x steel, 10x plasteel). Production time to 50% of current.

If it doesn't need uranium anymore why does it now require 10 uranium to build now, was there a typo /bugor was this part unintended. The recipe for it rn is 2 component, 50steel, 20 platsteel and 10uranium
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: eleniatari on June 19, 2018, 09:32:06 AM
I have two problems with the new build playing without any mods. I forgot the second because it must not be important, the first though has been severely bothering me.

It takes freaking forever to smooth a wall now. Two pawns with 6 construction, one smoothing walls and one smoothing the floor. The floor of a 6x6 room is done before the second, SECOND wall is 1/3 of the way done. I love smoothing walls and making bases in mountains and hills but this is obscene, when it is faster to remove it all and rebuild it.

Edit* I remembered the second, it took me 4 days to build a wood door to a base because an ibex kept walking through it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Flacwby on June 19, 2018, 10:25:30 AM
Is there a section with the 1.0 unstable patch notes? I see we're on 1.0.1939 and it's helpful to verify items on the patch notes are indeed fixed or working as desired.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dolphinizer on June 19, 2018, 10:51:52 AM
Just lost a playthrough on Cassandra rough, lost a colony in a temperate plains biome.

From the very beginning I had a colonist with a high animals skill so I figured i'd try to build an army of animals to defend myself. Unfortunately having one colonist out of three tied up managing animals constantly caused a massive labour shortage in my colony. There were constantly things needing to be done and never enough hands to do them. Eventually this labour shortage led to serious morale problems, after a harsh raid in which every colonist was wounded one of my pawns snapped and decided to murder my best pawn, we grouped up by the doorway and beat her when she came in, but unfortunately the scuffle ended up with two of my pawns developing infections, effectively putting them both out of play as they had to bed rest in hopes of surviving the infection. This further compounded the labour storage and soon my potatoes were ready to harvest, but there was no one to harvest them, no one was cutting wood to build anything because everyone was busy with other vital tasks and my beastmaster seemed to prioritize taming wild animals over tame ones so I simply ended up with an army of untrained useless muffalo, alpaca and boar. Eventually a raid came, about 6 raiders armed to the teeth with SMGs and the like. My colonists, comparatively were armed with nothing but survival rifles, pistols and knives. My best fighter was out of play due to food poisoning so it was up to my brawler and another colonist to repel the army. Needless to say it went horribly, my brawler positioned herself behind the herd of sleeping animals and attempted to use them as a distraction, when the firing started they ran in every direction, and while they did successfully manage to draw some fire the herd never attacked as my beastmaster never trained any of them. The raiders were simply too well equipped for my colonists to fight, especially with our best fighter unconscious in bed. They downed every animal in the colony and kidnapped 2 colonists, leaving only one colonist, sick in bed and starving because of his gut worms.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Rulin on June 19, 2018, 11:01:07 AM
I saw that monkeys have advanced trainability, but can't haul. Could we get another line, that would tell us about usefulness of animal, instead of it's intelligence? And still can't set all pawns to area 1 with one click.

That reminds me of a scene from hangover: https://youtu.be/pHhF3pAtC9M?t=49s
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 19, 2018, 11:18:32 AM
It seems odd that wood has a better blunt resistance and heat resistance than steel. Last time I checked, metal is better against fire than something that's clearly flammable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 19, 2018, 11:36:20 AM
I see a new patch has come out. Wished I said this bit earlier:

When placing a blueprint for a sunlamp, it would be nice to see the outline of the light. I'm designing a hydroponics room while pausing and it's an equal annoyance to not remember the light outline.

EDIT: Also should mention, colonists hang around campfires that are dead. Whether that's a bug or not, well you do you Tynan.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 19, 2018, 11:38:02 AM
I see a new patch has come out. Wished I said this bit earlier:

When placing a blueprint for a sunlamp, it would be nice to see the outline of the light. I'm designing a hydroponics room while pausing and it's an equal annoyance to not remember the light outline.

Great tool (originally by Zhentar, now Rock5 has most recently updated it for B18, hopefully 1.0 soon!): https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37177.msg382006#msg382006

Would love to see somthing like that in vanilla, but hey as long as the mod sticks around... all good!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: mekukutut on June 19, 2018, 12:22:22 PM
What makes me sad is that the scenario editor didn't learn the alphabet even in version 1.0!
Makes it always a bit annoying to search for the Single Animal Insanity incident which I hate and always disable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 19, 2018, 12:25:31 PM
It seems odd that wood has a better blunt resistance and heat resistance than steel. Last time I checked, metal is better against fire than something that's clearly flammable.

Heat resistance is how much heat it transfers, and wood is a very good insulator. What you mean is flammability.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Vito1189 on June 19, 2018, 12:49:10 PM
Anybody knows when would we play on stable version?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ulvaar on June 19, 2018, 12:49:38 PM
Excellent update on the whole, enjoying the rebalace!

Funny little bug I just encountered: wanted to try out the new randomize button for colony names, got a random name that I wanted to keep, but was too long:

https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ (https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ)

'Fraid I didn't check exactly how long it was before clicking away - a limit to the name generator will probably do the trick.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lech on June 19, 2018, 01:00:22 PM
I can double click wild berries to select them all on the screen, could I do the same with wild healroots, please?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 19, 2018, 01:22:38 PM
Obvious solution: Move the loop to a new method.

Done. I've actually function-ized a lot of things in that function, both for readability reasons and for modability reasons. Let me know if this doesn't do the job, but I think it will.
While I haven't actually coded anything yet, I see no reason why I would be prevented from doing anything I plan to do. In fact the current build appears to offer the most modder friendly design of LoadAllActiveMods() ever provided by RimWorld. Great job.

Excellent update on the whole, enjoying the rebalace!

Funny little bug I just encountered: wanted to try out the new randomize button for colony names, got a random name that I wanted to keep, but was too long:

https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ (https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ)

'Fraid I didn't check exactly how long it was before clicking away - a limit to the name generator will probably do the trick.
This really should be in the bug report subforum. Apart from that, remember if touching the limit to the colony name, that name is the default name for savegames. It would be nice if the limit to savegame names is longer than colony names, allowing suffixes to your savegame names without deleting from the colony name.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 19, 2018, 01:31:42 PM
Excellent update on the whole, enjoying the rebalace!

Funny little bug I just encountered: wanted to try out the new randomize button for colony names, got a random name that I wanted to keep, but was too long:

https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ (https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ)

'Fraid I didn't check exactly how long it was before clicking away - a limit to the name generator will probably do the trick.
This really should be in the bug report subforum. Apart from that, remember if touching the limit to the colony name, that name is the default name for savegames. It would be nice if the limit to savegame names is longer than colony names, allowing suffixes to your savegame names without deleting from the colony name.

Reported that yesterday.

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41813.0

In case you want to add your input to that bug report.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Snafu_RW on June 19, 2018, 01:46:09 PM
Just finished reading the patchnotes & accompanying 3 pages of notes. Well done Tynan & team!!

However, one glaring omission I spotted almost instantly: still no prosthetic noses/ears/scar removal? Or has the social insult for being disfigured been removed?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 19, 2018, 02:11:25 PM
A small problem is that if you dont post the changes between builds and you just edit the first page, we cant tell what has been changed and what to test.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ChJees on June 19, 2018, 02:11:38 PM
Found a unfinished description :P.

Cochlear implant description: text_todo
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 19, 2018, 02:44:07 PM
It seems odd that wood has a better blunt resistance and heat resistance than steel. Last time I checked, metal is better against fire than something that's clearly flammable.

Heat resistance is how much heat it transfers, and wood is a very good insulator. What you mean is flammability.

Interestingly, there's some IRL parallel to this depending on context.  Sometimes steel beams will fail structurally from fire before wooden ones, since the additional heat allows them to deform under the weight, whereas the wooden one actually has to burn first.

Then again, it's pretty near impossible to set steel on fire under normal scenarios, even with the weapons that ignite stuff in the game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TryB4Buy on June 19, 2018, 06:52:11 PM
Was this "unable to manually capture" bug in B18? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-1qgIhNx_o 27:27. I think its because he cleared a prisoner's room to non-prisoner. I'll wait for 1.0 to actually come out.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 19, 2018, 08:01:35 PM
Havent yet played 1.0, reading log:

-Removed tornado incident - good idea, no counter, was bad design and we all knew it. Reason: not fun.

-Removed "Green thumb" trait - always loved it, very fun trait, idk why remove. Great fit for the game <3 Restore please, very in-flavour with the game.

-Masterwork/legendary items are extra hard to craft - generally you can now only get them by inspiration - grinding it is then :(

-Mechanoids now always destroy anything they drop (including minigun, which was previously recoverable) - So why do they exist at all, seems like digital suffering with no benefit? No good imo :(

-scyther (close combat specialist) - I predict digital suffering, since they were already deadly to colonists but could be prevented with some cover. How to prevent a mechanoid melee fighter early on? Losses that can't be countered I assume.

-Double sleeping spot - very not needed. Why bother? :p

-Great memory - slower skill decay - fortunately I use the remove decay mod, else its not fun to play. Should be an option in the game for that.

-Turrets now require "barrel change" after firing a lot. - feels like repetition on existing things.

Tons of changes, lots of work done, still wish the above would be changed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 19, 2018, 08:36:45 PM
Havent yet played 1.0, reading log:

-Removed "Green thumb" trait - always loved it, very fun trait, idk why remove. Great fit for the game <3 Restore please, very in-flavour with the game.

-Masterwork/legendary items are extra hard to craft - generally you can now only get them by inspiration - grinding it is then :(

-Mechanoids now always destroy anything they drop (including minigun, which was previously recoverable) - So why do they exist at all, seems like digital suffering with no benefit? No good imo :(

-Double sleeping spot - very not needed. Why bother? :p

-Turrets now require "barrel change" after firing a lot. - feels like repetition on existing things.

1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space.
2. You had 3% chance with a level 20 to craft a legendary. It was grinding too. I know cause I always went for legendary beds and legendary statues.
3. Why exist what? Miniguns and blasters are craftable.
4. If you play tribal you would know. At least me, I first rush microelectronic basics and a bunch of stuff, then beds. Having couples in this situation was not ideal.
5. He made a whole post explaining why.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MarvinKosh on June 19, 2018, 08:39:45 PM
I've noticed today that deconstruction of some things doesn't yield any resources. For example, if you refuel a campfire and then deconstruct it then you can get nothing back.

Anyway, this seems to be working as intended, but if that's the case I think it would be nice if the player knows in advance that they're not going to get anything back when they deconstruct those particular things.



@Julia: Green Thumb isn't really needed any more because colonists who have a passion for doing a particular kind of job will now get a nice mood buff when they do that job.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 19, 2018, 08:48:05 PM
1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space.
We really should have a trait/background story overhaul. We already had somebody complaining about a chef who is unable to cook.

@Julia: Green Thumb isn't really needed any more because colonists who have a passion for doing a particular kind of job will now get a nice mood buff when they do that job.
Good point. It would have been nice if the changelog mentioned it's replaced and not just removed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jstank on June 19, 2018, 09:27:56 PM
Can we revert the sprite for the wind turbine? It is objectively uglier now!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 19, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space.
2. You had 3% chance with a level 20 to craft a legendary. It was grinding too. I know cause I always went for legendary beds and legendary statues.
3. Why exist what? Miniguns and blasters are craftable.
4. If you play tribal you would know. At least me, I first rush microelectronic basics and a bunch of stuff, then beds. Having couples in this situation was not ideal.
5. He made a whole post explaining why.

1. As someone said - replaced by passionate working moodlet, which is nice. So yeah its fine.
2. 3% chance is huge compared to close to no% chance. You had to grind it with 3%. Now you can only either do quests via traveling which has potential of utterly ruining a run and not offering you a thing you want or you have to rely on inspirations... Good luck getting those legendary beds with your inspired one-armed janitor in one day's time. If you do get it - you should go play roulette, you'll definitely be rich.
3. True - i don't see why making mechanoids die on being downed is making them useless\no fun. They're an enemy to be feared. Melee ones can be kited, other ones sniped. All fine.
4. I guess for tribals sleeping spots would be kind of useful... Though playing tribal run is pure suffering.
5. Even with that explanation, i don't see a point in adding a huge steel sink, while not adding a reliable way of getting more. The most consumed resource in the game gets even more consumed. Whats the point? Making people not use turret based killboxes? Dream on.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mistrornge on June 19, 2018, 10:10:27 PM
I have been texting v1.0 and have found it a big change in difficulty.  Lowered difficulty to Some Challenge and managed to wipe after a few hours. 
I had a 5 person colony with 3x malaria and after 20 min or so one pawn got the flu.  After being sick a short while 2 patients decided to go berserk and destroyed the colony. 
Having non combatants going berserk needs to end.
The food poisoning effects seem a bit much.  Bed ridden during a caravan.  If someone attacks my caravan I am going to get up and fight.  Total incapacitation is a bit too far.
Animals are still doing drugs and drinking alcohol. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 19, 2018, 10:14:56 PM
This is why he said theorycrafting is 100% pointless. Just play the game before assuming the new scythers are op.. I just had a colonist win a 1 on 1 fight with a scythe with a shotgun vs his melee damage. The other colonist used a shotgun to take on two of them at 1 tile away range on the ranged ones. You aren't going to like trying to out snipe a scythe but you can definitely. Kite kill the melee guys and draw the ranged ones into shotgun/mini/auto gun range and they go down fast. 90% of the changes people complain about just sound worst than they actually are.

I do agree the trait system needs a rework. But I bet anything that would be a long and tedious project to mix and match the many combos perfectly. Instead I think we would all just be happier if their names weren't miss leading on the rescue down prisoner quests/escaped/prison camp. I'd prefer just to know some information about them so I have motivation to risk my campaign to rescue them. 

The steel sink makes 100% sense and nerf to deep drillers. With the buff to caravanning you aren't suppose to just live on your little tile and never see the world. You have more motivation to go do mining trips or trade with allies. Or even move your entire base.  Besides steel was always overflowing in my games when I got the deep drill. It was components that are the sinkhole.

He is trying to tell you as polietly as possible to stop theory crafting because it is talking out of your ass. For all you know the steel requirement is like 5 steel once a year for each turret. You can't know what the change means until you actually play a run for a couple years and test it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jamaicancastle on June 19, 2018, 10:38:35 PM
I've noticed today that deconstruction of some things doesn't yield any resources. For example, if you refuel a campfire and then deconstruct it then you can get nothing back.
It used to be that if you deconstructed something with unused fuel, you would get the fuel back. Does it no longer do that?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 19, 2018, 10:43:30 PM
No theorycrafting in my post. Its not 5 steel, but 60. For all i know. Yeah steel overflows for a bit, once you start deep drilling, but do keep in mind those are nowhere near being endless and have the potential of causing infestations now and that balances them out. Considering how much it costs to get everyone armored before sending them out anywhere, additional heavy steel sink feels unneeded.

Can't say much about caravaneering, didn't try it in 1.0, but unless the issue with event balancing from previous releases is resolved its still suicidal. Without proper defenses, clean hospital rooms and with increased chance of infection its bound to have someone killed. Treating someone out in the wilds is going to make your fragile minded pawns go crazy in seconds from living in a filthy wooden shack after leaving a big cozy protected city with booze and wenches. Only change i ve seen is foraging which is nice.

There s also a point of your ally's base just not having the resource you need. I still remember coming to an outlander town only to see them have 300 steel and ~400 silver worth of money. Yay. Oh yeah, right. And raiders obviously don't care you've sent n% of your people out and come in full force - get sappers and you're hosed, unless you produce nothing short of a tactical miracle.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 19, 2018, 11:29:39 PM
I'm at the end of the first Septober with a tribal start on a tropical swamp with Cassandra Rough. TL;DR: alpacas still OP

I lost one colonist to a bump on the head and another to infection, but I picked up an animal trainer. She happens to be non-violent, so fights are just three pawns (all decent shooters with low-level guns now) plus my Alpaca Strike Force. I'm up to 15 total animals - a starting husky, 11 alpacas, and a self-tamed monkey, capybara, and elephant (!). Most are trained to release at this point.

My defense is:
 - A few disjoint sections of alternating wall/sandbag/wall to duel ranged raids. The strong raid that I had to fight this way felt problematic, but I sent them running and only lost two alpacas. Most of their guns outranged me, but my cover was good, and some enemies walked into Alpaca Threat Range and got hoof'd.
 - Actual building entrance, where I can have all three ranged pawns sit one tile away from the open door and let enemies walk in to their doom. Usually I want pawns with melee weapons and armor sitting right at the door, but I don't have any. My animals were very well behaved during a weak manhunter pack. They mostly just sat in front of or around my pawns, and let my usual strategy work. They didn't spill out the door and lose the chokepoint advantage like I expected.

Is animal skill decay an event with a notification? If so, I haven't seen any. My Strike Force is nearly fully trained and I am looking to expand it. Since this is a permanent summer map, maintenance is still low. If there were short or medium winters, I think I would have problems feeding a large Strike Force during the first winter only.
I've lost two alpacas to plague (out of three infected), but I was distracted when I was first notified and didn't tend to them. A whole bunch came down with the flu, but no serious effect. The self-tame events have felt implausibly generous.
The history chart shows the value of animals separately, which I think is a nice touch. They show up as a small part of my net worth, maybe 10-15%
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DuckBoy on June 20, 2018, 12:12:16 AM
I just played out my first Tribal -Ancient Danger Hunter- run in 1.0 Unstable.  Results are... curious but quite an improvement overall. 

Basic strategy is bum rush the ancient danger with 5 jade clubs (or 4 jade clubs and a steel ikwa, whatever). 

Someone lost a finger, as you do, but we ended up with 2 tribals in power armor and 3 tribals in flak gear before the first nightfall, as well as enough luciferium to regrow 14 fingers if need be. 

They packed up, using the new caravan changes, forgetting several piles of jade, and several unmined tiles of jade that I quickly right clicked and fixed (THANK YOU!!!) and charted a course towards the nearest tribal while looking at the map (THANK YOU AGAIN!).  I was pretty confused when I neither attacked nor traded with them, and ended up giving them my varg and a ton of plasteel just to get the option to trade with them for food. 

I then settled again, bum rushed another ancient danger (Both were devoid of any insectoid or mechanoid menaces, sadly) and filled out my now 6 pawns with 4 power armors and 2 full flak gear.  I walked 10 paces to an outpost, sold all the junk for power armor helmets, steel helmets, and two personal shields.  Giving me basically the strongest melee force I've ever seen by day 5 or so. 

So I marched them off to the nearest pirate base to do battle. 

Following my standard exploity nonsense, I found a little hole in the wall, dropped 1 wall and 1 wooden door, and cackled maniacally while I waited for the pirates to march to their deaths. 

The second my shield batteried power armored front line closed the thin wooden door behind them, all the pirates paused for a moment and did something I never saw them do before.  They lined up far away from the door, and started pitching frag grenades at me while I was stuck in my tiny 6 cell corner. 

I was slaughtered mercilessly, and it was the fairest thing I've ever seen. 

Hats off Tynan, you gave me the strongest melee force I've ever built in the shortest amount of time, gut punched it without a doom rocket, and left me a half dozen ways I could have fixed it.  I knew I should have splurged for that charge lance. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: saulysw on June 20, 2018, 12:38:45 AM
Been playing a slow standard game and enjoying myself. Just passed 500 hours on Rimworld. I appreciated a little change which was being able to relocate a number of workbenches. I moved the kitchen near to the freezer, and the research table out into the workroom and nothing had to be destroyed to do all this.

I'm worried about my medicine supply (it basically doesn't exist - none on the map and nobody skilled enough to grow it) but other than that, this colony seems to have some future. They are being powered by a water wheel and a single solar panel and it seems enough for now with only 1 battery for storage. I built a bridge over the nearby river and they path over it just fine. That seems to work quite naturally so well done there. Only two raids, so far, and each was only one person. I need a good grower. Oh, and my last addition came with go-juice addiction so he's going through withdrawal at the moment, and that takes forever but that's not new. I got no hope of making any go-juice so he has to suck it up. One break so far (dazed or something - he just wandered off), but I'm trying to keep him entertained so he forgets about that sweet, sweet go juice. Mmmmmm. Go juice.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Adsixnine on June 20, 2018, 12:56:12 AM
wow Looks like some good changes. ;)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MarvinKosh on June 20, 2018, 03:24:34 AM
Something that I noticed today is that enemies are a bit dumb when it comes to bridges and fording rivers.

Basically, if the colony defenders are shooting you from across a river and all you have are melee weapons, you should be looking to get out of their firing range or at the very least hop from one bit of cover to another, not run along the bank of the river to try to get to the bridge.

Sure, if you have numbers, maybe you can just rush across the river, but with just three guys, you want to cross that river as soon as you arrive.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 20, 2018, 03:30:19 AM
Thoughts on caravaning:

1. New UI features are an absolute godsend. As is the requirement of plotting a course first.

2. Once upon, a long time ago, Tynan mentioned putting the "Merge" option on screen to give players the idea that this was in fact possible. I don't need it of course, but it would be nice for new players.

3. The option to "pause" is also good, but it might better to expand on that by rewriting it to "Rest" and "Hunt/Forage a lot more". This of course causes the issue of how hunting anything predatory works, but I personally wouldn't mind leaving it to a dice roll.

4. Sometimes, while paying attention to your colony, MANY players (and I see this a lot with some RW YouTubers) forget that they have pawns travelling on the map. I think it would best to give a notification sorts, a message on the right, to tell players that the caravan has arrived at their destination. The "caravan has arrived at Ludeon" just isn't attention grabbing enough. This is pretty much always a problem with merchant caravans, because you forget due to a fire/raid/whatever and then run out of food and other problems.

5. One of my travelling colonists contacted plague (two man caravan), and was pretty much a goner due to me not having good Medicine on hand, just Herbal. It would be nice if, being on a friendly settlement spot on the map, you can pay for better medication. Even something as a "pay X silver until healed", it would encourage players to travel. This wasn't the first time caravaning, but imagine if I were a new player, I'd probably never touch caravans ever again.

6. The quests are good. Some are laughable as it was in B18 (18 bowler hats for 3 antigrain warheads lol) but overall a huge improvement in regards to reward balancing and money value shown.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Woona on June 20, 2018, 05:12:58 AM
Played a couple year-long runs as crashlanded and tribal starts. General progression is slower: slower building, farming, researching and more time spent on recreation. It is balanced by weaker early game raids, but there is still a possibility to get hit by a toxic fallout or psychic ship early and unprepared.

Mechanoids seem imbalanced: scythers and lancers are too weak and centipedes are extremely strong. I had two average colonists armed with revolver and sniper rifle defeat two lancers while hiding behind some rock chunks without getting injured. On the other hand, killing a centipede took hours for an entire colony since most bullets are deflected with new armor mechanics.

I didn't use caravans much before 1.0, but now they're in good shape. I went for all incapacitated refugees and unprotected item stashes. Willingly weakening your colony for a few days with a possibility of a great reward feels very satisfying, and the new UI is easy to use.

With nerfs to farming crops, I found myself relying on hunting more often, especially for a tiny colony with less than 10 people. Hunting animals is even faster now with the finishing move. Sadly, you can't finish an animal with a right-click menu while drafted. You have to set up the hunting job, undraft, prioritize hunting, then wait and draft again. Killing big animals is still very easy with a big hunting team without getting harmed, corpses are still easily transported into freezer, and they provide a lot of meat.

With changes to leather types and tailoring time, I never encountered any problems with clothes. Didn't bother to strip down any corpses, and even sold off some crafted clothes to traders for extra money.

Recreation plays a bigger role in the game now but I noticed that when you send a colonist far away for resource gathering, while he travels the recreation bar drops below threshold and immediately after arriving, he travels all the way back. This happened before, but now it's very frequent.

There are still no notifications for dangerous predators. I try to regularly check the map and shoot predators before they eat my people. But as always, I got distracted and a bear mauled my colonist.

I usually play with mods and it was great to see many popular mods implemented into the base game. But playing the unstable version without WorkTab was painful.



Thanks for another great update.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 20, 2018, 05:27:52 AM
Raiders now can use firearms in close combat point blank. Wow. This release sure doesn't pull any punches. Even less sense to send someone into melee now, that you can just get a bullet in the face point blank... I guess thats fair though. There's no place for medieval savagery in digital age.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 20, 2018, 06:24:10 AM
"1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space."

So Lazy and Creepy Breathing are better random traits? ;o

It was a great design, even if it wasn't on a grower, that's where you have to think about usefulness of pawns. I dont play with skills decay, so I dont have problems with grinding pawns all the time.

"@Julia: Green Thumb isn't really needed any more because colonists who have a passion for doing a particular kind of job will now get a nice mood buff when they do that job."

Double buff! =]
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Avhan on June 20, 2018, 06:35:40 AM
Insane update, ultra-realistically rebalanced stuff ( +1 for the beer bottle buff btw).
-Adjusted balance of learning rates for various skills. Easier: Melee, shooting, social. Harder: Intellectual, growing, mining.

Love you! Never managed to have a colonist raise his social skill by more than 2 points ever.
The bridge implementing was a little late and fishing isn't here yet... other than that and a few things, it feels great and challenging, filled with action.
Speaking about action, the new raid type is insane and because of the new turret mechanic, you can't build a killbox to rely on anymore haha. Thanks for that. Thanks for the nasty sappers too.

Great job to the dev team and the modders who came up with irresistible improvements to the game. It's still a lot more to be done though, but the potential is limitless.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the reason I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ChJees on June 20, 2018, 07:13:32 AM
I am having tons of fun with just Core, Alien Race Framework, Orassans, Androids, Prject RimFactory & Mechanite Forge in 1.0 .
Vanilla gameplay really stands on its own now :D.

From what i noticed though is that even with Healroot growth nerf i am getting WAY too much of it now with my bigger farm. Also why no batch recipe for drugs like Smokeleaf joint, Flake & Yayo yet?
Oh and for people who previously got a crapton of corn from their farm in B18 just need to make them bigger if they still want a ton.

Main thing I like is that I no longer have steel and component "starvation". Must probably be because of the lower component cost of stuff now.

Raids are pretty irregular though. Some times i can get many raids in succession and other times it takes seasons for me to get a raid.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/itea5xz8cwb80ga/ModdedColony20180619230600_1.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 20, 2018, 07:33:46 AM
7. Forgot to mention another thing in regards to caravan: it's the issue of being only 4 tiles away but because it's night welp they better rest! I think one of the comic artists on reddit did that already.

I'm not sure how a Force March would work. It needs to balance with Rest, so maybe have a literal rest meter be a thing? Perhaps not individually, but a general sort of thing that takes account all colonists, prisoners and animals.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
I'm pushing another build.

One notable change is that you start with armor in the default scenario now. I'm not 100% sure of this but I want to see how it plays out.

Below I'll post the raw changelog for all changes since the first 1.0 unstable (1936) since I didn't post them before. Here's the sausage being made. The below commits are by a mix of me, ison (Piotr Walczak) and ZorbaTHut (Ben Rog-Wilhelm).

---

Fix: Blueprint graphics for wall/sandbags/door don't match the edge detect shader properly (missing inner solid transparent field)
Removed some text that doesn't pluralize well.
Unified table style so all tables fit the cell more precisely.
A bit more text content.
Added multicount silver graphics.
Adjust some apparel draw sizes. Won't be visible in-game until we fix bug that causes drawSize to do nothing on apparel items.
Added new multicount graphics for steel.
Multi-stackcount graphics for stone blocks.
Various item art improvements.
Add wood log full stack graphic.
Adjust smokeleaf joint graphics for size.
Refined wood log graphics.
Unified health item graphics.
Simplyify body part item graphics.
Uranium is no longer a small-volume ingredient.
Precious lump more likely to form with uranium, less likely with jade.
Made StatPart_Difficulty more sensible (though it's not actually used anywhere :/)
Buff flak vest and flak pants.
Start with flak vest, flak pants, plasteel helmet.
Food poisoning chance is now affected by difficulty.
Wanderer joins letter text specifically notes that you can’t question the pawn.
Fill in some text_todo for new body parts.
Wall smoothing work amount 9000 -> 6500.
Changed "abandon" gizmo order.
When RegionTraverser finds a small region, put it to the front of the queue instead of the back.
When health tab is empty, instead of writing "(no injuries)" we now write "(no health conditions)" in the center.
Fix: "Show what will buy" gizmo overlaps "choose landing location" buttons.
Fix: Index out of bounds exception in ToTitleCaseSmart() while generating names.
We no longer warn about proximity goodwill change when settling near permanent enemies because it's pointless.
Fix: "Romance attempt" interaction repetitive text.
Some minor changes to string.Flatten() and string.MergeMultipleSpaces().
GrammarResolver is now more careful while removing excessive whitespace. This fixes issues with incorrect linebreaks in letters.
Rebalanced some prosthetics-related thoughts.
Refine shadow data for buildings.
Clean up some shooting accuracy code, collected constants together.
Clarified refugee pod crash letter and made it specific to the pawn who is crashing. Added _title text output from pawns. So now you can use [PAWN_title] in any text.
Fix minigun and charge blaster balance. Minimum accuracy for ranged weapons changed to 0.01.
Fix: Missing translation tags for direct hit chance and miss radius.
-Balance down watermill 1400 -> 1200 watts. -Healroot grow time 10 -> 7 (crop version only, wild version remains at 10). -Flak pants occupy middle layer (can’t be worn under power armor).
Tie forcedMissRadius to whether a weapon is explosive; remove it from non-explosive weapons and adjust accuracy.
Fix: Adjusted forced miss is not applied properly.
Move verb-related ConfigErrors into VerbProperties.
Pass a little extra information into ApplyPatches.
Abstract mod loading into a variety of overridable functions.
Fix: Phrasing mistake.
Fix: Typo.
Added stat minValue where appropriate.
Raiders are no longer allowed to self-tend.
Fix 3443: Colonist with low Animals skill gets 'Product Wasted' when shearing alpaca, but alpaca still has 100% wool
Fix 3439: Item stash contains Silver, Silver, Silver, Silver, and Silver
Fixed back compatibility issue with ScenPart_IncidentBase.
Fix 3435: Backwards compatibility: Issues with missing/changed defs edition
Allow tribalwear for all starts (for naked brutality scenario, mostly).
More content for interaction descriptions.
Fixed issues with hediffs B18 back compatibility.
Fixed some B18 back compatibility issues.
Reduced predator prevalence in most biomes about 30%.
Balance prevalence of harvestable wild plants (mostly reducing raspberries).
Goodwill daily gain and fall for factions reduced 0.5 -> 0.25
Adjusted and added some content for world feature name generation.
Fix: Semi-frequent errors on world generation from name use checking by text generators.
RulePack refactoring. Fix: Tribe factions use outlander union names for name generation.
Rulepacks refactor and naming consistency.
Some minor rule pack refactors.
Fix: Waterwheels don't rotate the right direction.
Integrate backstory translations using the same fuzzy-match logic used for loading.
Improved tribal name generators. Removed various duplicate rules in favor of probability markers.
More naming content for trade ships.
More content for world name generator.
Update string replacement symbols for Tynan easter egg backstory.
More random naming content for pirate factions.
Fix: Some world text still clips with the planet.
Adjust mortar description to explain its inaccuracy.
Exclude wav and png files from VSCode.
Name generation tests now inject the name "Smithee" for ANYPAWN. This is so that rules which require a pawn name (e.g. art titles relating to a Tale about a pawn) get tested as well.
A bit more content for weapon art namer.
Refactor some naming data into global to reduce duplication.
Added more variations to art name generation, and restructured for greater re-use between art types.
Syllables are now global for text generation and renamed to SylE (English) and SylG (Galician).
More content for artwork naming.
Rename some RulePack XML files.
Fix: Art namers don't appear on namer test rulepack list (since their names didn't start with Namer). Renamed them to NamerArtXXX. Fix: Some bracket mistakes from last commit.
Reorganized and renamed various art generation text symbols. Removed a bunch of redundant references (re-defining things already defined in global utility def).
Increase deep counts per cell somewhat (this is balanced because we now have drill-caused infestations)
Credits update (testers)
Delete two meta files that Unity keeps deleting.
Display “(various) x5” instead of just “(various)” when various things are selected.
Grayscale-out disabled Commands.
Fix 3436: Exception while saving Maneuver_Smash_MeleeHit
Fix 3441: Gray turns into __Gray__ when drafted. (Underline on entire textbox rather than name) (maybe)
Fix another smattering of old text-replacement tokens.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 20, 2018, 07:54:51 AM
It could be nice to have a 4x speed without dev mode (or mods) !! ;)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Kirby23590 on June 20, 2018, 08:29:40 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Hey! We are the happy and loyal community of the rims! ;D

It's nice to see that every feedback & criticism we give will help improve the game into release!

Looking forward to the release day! While i continue playing B18 and racing to the journey ending! ;)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: SetArk on June 20, 2018, 08:56:17 AM
Hail!
One day, will be added a function similar to the Tech Advancing mod?
Or is ist already in B18/1.0 ?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gillsminnow on June 20, 2018, 09:13:49 AM
Unless I'm missing something, when crafting clothing, when you check "pause when satisfied" there is no option to put in a number for that section as there is with other worktables.

https://i.gyazo.com/b9073ccd7f4be8374e13693c4917c6d4.png
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 20, 2018, 09:25:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xyBCYqq.png)

Uhm... Tynan? I know that these colors of outlanders and tribals are different and it's visible if you blend one color on another and take a magnifying glass but can you make us easier to distinguish such colors with the naked eye?

(https://i.imgur.com/eFqwI15.png)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 09:30:09 AM
Yeah we're gonna fix the colors, it was just an oversight from when I duplicated the faction defs.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: swampslug on June 20, 2018, 09:42:53 AM
Tynan, thank you for this. I haven't had much time to test this but a couple of things did jump out at me with regards to the new bridges.
I was building a little beach hut with decking over the water and discovered that
1) while you can build walls on top of bridges, you cannot place floors
2) the natural solution for a room partially on a bridge is to use the wooden floor to cover the sand/soil/whatever, however the wood patterns do not sync up.
3) bridges can only be built over water so you cannot just build a bridge under the entire structure for a consistent floor design.

While I realise that there may be very good reasons for not being able to place floors on bridges, would it at least be possible to align the artwork for bridges and wooden floors?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 09:49:19 AM
Tynan, thank you for this. I haven't had much time to test this but a couple of things did jump out at me with regards to the new bridges.
I was building a little beach hut with decking over the water and discovered that
1) while you can build walls on top of bridges, you cannot place floors
2) the natural solution for a room partially on a bridge is to use the wooden floor to cover the sand/soil/whatever, however the wood patterns do not sync up.
3) bridges can only be built over water so you cannot just build a bridge under the entire structure for a consistent floor design.

While I realise that there may be very good reasons for not being able to place floors on bridges, would it at least be possible to align the artwork for bridges and wooden floors?

Yes, we should definitely do that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 20, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
I think you should also consider changing names color of pawns depending on the faction they belong to. We might see multiple factions on the same map fighting each other while we're not hostile to them. This could be handy in case we wanna use this situation, e.g. capturing people from the defeated faction.

Edit:// Also, consider players might abuse calling exotic goods traders of two opposing to each other factions and something has to be changed there.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 20, 2018, 09:57:16 AM
Reporting with my medieval/tribal colony.

Was very surprised that I can craft steel plated armor, but there is no medieval helmet option other than wooden tribal mask. IMO steel helmet should be available to craft from blacksmithing table (not only on machining table).

Another old bug/quirk: crafting spot has 100% work speed, but hand-sewing table has 40% work speed. It is much faster to craft tribal clothes on primitive crafting spot rather than on advanced sewing table. It feels wrong.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aerial on June 20, 2018, 09:58:32 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

To me, fishing fills an empty niche in extreme maps that don't support wildlife.  I've had colonies scrape through a harsh winter that drove all the animals off the map because they were able to fish.

Beyond that, though, fishing is fun from a gameplay perspective.  It's oddly relaxing to watch your pawn wander down to the dock and fish for a little while :-)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: lancar on June 20, 2018, 10:09:39 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

To me, fishing fills an empty niche in extreme maps that don't support wildlife.  I've had colonies scrape through a harsh winter that drove all the animals off the map because they were able to fish.

Beyond that, though, fishing is fun from a gameplay perspective.  It's oddly relaxing to watch your pawn wander down to the dock and fish for a little while :-)
I know a good way to solve this.
Instead of fishing with a rod, make it spearfishing instead and tie it to the Melee skill.
Rightclick the shore of a river or coast and select "Spearfishing"
Can be done with any melee weapon, but more effective with a spear equipped =)
Would also give a valid risk-free way to train Melee, to boot!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 20, 2018, 10:11:15 AM
Bridges in this new game almost feel like terra forming. Nothing can't be built on them and you can ignore bodies of water and marshy soil. Although it is nice it seems like if we have bridges that moister pump needs to be removed from the game. Alternatively there could be multi tiers of bridges or inability to place walls on them.


Personally my plan in my playthrough is to scatter a few turrets and sandbags in my huge river to make for more interesting combat. But since I can build walls on them. Part of me just thinks it is best to pretend the river doesn't exist and just wall it completly off.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: misterp_1000 on June 20, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
Cataconic breakdowns are waaayyyy to frequent. ive got 5 during the last 20 minutes
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 20, 2018, 11:00:53 AM
I 100% am behind a medieval helmet of a sort, considering we're getting plate armor already. It's very much an aesthetic thing, and considering we have revolvers, cowboy hats, dusters, power armor, and charge rifles, just shove a bucket helm and give it quite the Accuracy penalty.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: klun on June 20, 2018, 11:26:10 AM
Mental debuff are too strong and often - bing food happen like 4 times in a row, then 3 berserk in a row

You cant build on bridges is that a bug or intentional ?
also any plans for after you complete/launch ships going back to world selection or perhaps another random world generated for a  somekind of endless mode?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Vito1189 on June 20, 2018, 11:59:43 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

To me, fishing fills an empty niche in extreme maps that don't support wildlife.  I've had colonies scrape through a harsh winter that drove all the animals off the map because they were able to fish.

Beyond that, though, fishing is fun from a gameplay perspective.  It's oddly relaxing to watch your pawn wander down to the dock and fish for a little while :-)
I know a good way to solve this.
Instead of fishing with a rod, make it spearfishing instead and tie it to the Melee skill.
Rightclick the shore of a river or coast and select "Spearfishing"
Can be done with any melee weapon, but more effective with a spear equipped =)
Would also give a valid risk-free way to train Melee, to boot!

Its a wonderfull idea!! i am agree with this!
Greetings uncle Tynnan!!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Vito1189 on June 20, 2018, 12:15:07 PM
There are any bugs about factions:
When you see factions,before the name: "Could not resolve any Root: Name FirstRulePack: NamerFactionOutlander" (And the faction under) And in the section about diplomacy it puts:"Enemy of ErrorName".
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 20, 2018, 12:17:57 PM
Mental debuff are too strong and often - bing food happen like 4 times in a row, then 3 berserk in a row

I think you are undervalueing how important a quality dining room/ rec room and fine meals are worth. Even on extreme naked and brutal I made sure before year one to have 8 by 8 bedrooms for everyone (can be a little smaller). A slightly impressive dinning room with a chess table inside of it so it doubled as a rec room and a way to always have fine meals. I'm rolling on year two and mental breaks aren't the issue for me. Besides one stupid event.

A quest had my characters lover in a prison camp. Since I have no sniper rifles I can't kill turrets yet and didn't do the quest. My character went on a mental break for loss of a lover.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 20, 2018, 12:29:53 PM
God, 8 by 8 bedrooms... If you need such hungars for each person to just not suddenly go kill everything around them - its kind of broken. I agree about dining room, though for it to have any lasting effect you need an experienced artist.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 20, 2018, 12:40:35 PM
Alright, about tamed animals going wild and need to train them again... you say it all depends on wilderness, so I guess that higher factor means more frequent issue. What about thrumbos? You risk your handlers' lives and take a lot of time and luck and many wild thrumbos to tame one, another problem to find a similar one with an opposite gender, then the update kicks in and your attempts would go to waste?

Edit:// I tested it. 11lvl tamer keeping thrumbo tamed is on 29% attempt as healthy when the thrumbo's tameness decays on average 5 days... what a thin line makes me keep thrumbo tamed, not saying about taming. On the other hand... I realized it's alright, as long as I have a tamer.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: medzernik on June 20, 2018, 12:42:27 PM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

The more complexity the games has, the better it is. It would be nice to have some form of fishing. That is to say, for example mods that add hygiene do add complexity, but IMO it's too annoying and not fun, because it is mandatory in a way.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tekuki on June 20, 2018, 12:50:17 PM
almost 200days in and two problem i have;
-the shield recipe still asking for uranium even though i thought uranium wasn't require anymore  (as show in the picture, using the lastest patch)
-i like the feature that range unit in melee combat will sometime shoot their gun, but can u disable that for grenade user, they are basically suciding them self when they fight in melee range with a grenade, even lost a colony to it cause i thought making them hold their fire while in combat will stop them from throwing their grenade.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jchavezriva on June 20, 2018, 01:20:18 PM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
Are there really no ways of implementing it without altering much the UI?
There would be one more box in the work tab, but the skill is not really necessary. It could depend on luck, percentage of manipulation and the quality/type of the rod.
But if that box is too much for you, then what about fishing nets that depend entirely on crafting? You just build them and toss them on the water.
Watermills was a good add, but still there is too much water in the game and too little we can do with it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: xion1088 on June 20, 2018, 01:31:20 PM
Really wish to have minerals in temporal maps back, that's was one of the reasons I liked to go to Lump of Precious Resources events, to mine more stuff than the lump of gold or jade, sometimes I would run out of plasteel to mine in my home map, sometimes I wouldn't find gold or uranium to build the ship and trading them is expensive. Sometimes I would send a colonist to a quest in winter with only food and medicine and rely on the resources on the temporal map to build drop pods to go back home or do quick raids.

Add them back Tynan maybe reduced but not fully removed :( Also can you add more time to pack up when you raid a enemy base? 1 day isn't enough to pawns recover from being unconscious or walk again.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Goldenpotatoes on June 20, 2018, 01:46:39 PM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

The lack of fishing was never a bothered me, but with the additions of stuff like flowing rivers and what-not, it seems odd that the streams and lakes are now devoid of any aquatic life to get food from. It wouldn't much too much of a stretch to allow it under the hunting work and just do some hand-wavy stuff about how being good with guns also apparently makes you a good fisher (patience, good eye for spotting fish?).

Gold panning could properly work under mining and have lower priority over mining/using the drill but it doesn't seem like it'd be worth having in-game for what little it'd actually probably benefit.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 20, 2018, 01:57:17 PM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.

Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

The lack of fishing was never a bothered me, but with the additions of stuff like flowing rivers and what-not, it seems odd that the streams and lakes are now devoid of any aquatic life to get food from. It wouldn't much too much of a stretch to allow it under the hunting work and just do some hand-wavy stuff about how being good with guns also apparently makes you a good fisher (patience, good eye for spotting fish?).

Gold panning could properly work under mining and have lower priority over mining/using the drill but it doesn't seem like it'd be worth having in-game for what little it'd actually probably benefit.

Tend to agree with all of this. However I do worry about how fishing may completely throw off the balance of farming and/or hunting. Especially with how it relates to fine/lavish meals, may make them too easy to get unless perhaps fish were good for simple meals only. The reason I say it may get too easy is possibly walling off rivers to be easily self sufficient inside your walled colony and not needing to either put forth the effort in animal husbandry or the venturing out and hunting aspect.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jovlo on June 20, 2018, 02:34:11 PM
I've been playing Naked Brutality for almost one in-game year (on Phoebe, some challenge).
Either I'm being very lucky, or everyone is related to everyone:

The first colonist to join was a refugee and my colonists brother.
The second colonist to just wander in and join is his brother's ex-lover.
Two days later, her ex-husband joins.

This is getting a bit silly...
Is this working as intended? Is it just me?
I remember that it was much less common to run into family members in B18 than it was in previous versions, which was in my opinion a big improvement.

Also, I hope this doesn't mean I will get raided by his cousins, grandparents and aunts soon, leading to mental breaks as they die...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 20, 2018, 02:56:22 PM
I've been playing Naked Brutality for almost one in-game year (on Phoebe, some challenge).
Either I'm being very lucky, or everyone is related to everyone:

The first colonist to join was a refugee and my colonists brother.
The second colonist to just wander in and join is his brother's ex-lover.
Two days later, her ex-husband joins.

This is getting a bit silly...
Is this working as intended? Is it just me?
I remember that it was much less common to run into family members in B18 than it was in previous versions, which was in my opinion a big improvement.

Also, I hope this doesn't mean I will get raided by his cousins, grandparents and aunts soon, leading to mental breaks as they die...

That has been a balancing trick for the last bunch of alphas, it has usually tipped one way or the other. Beta18, in my experience, had almost zero family, not sure if I've seen even one this whole time. Other alphas before that were completely the other way, where almost every raid had a family member.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 20, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Maybe fishing can be done as a random recreation thing. If you are lucky you get a guy with the trait likes fishing. Since it would happen rarely. You wouldn't have to balance the food income from fishing but it could give people who like role playing the ability to scenario edit their starting characters to like fishing. They will only do it if there is a char on a bridge within a certain amount of tiles.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 20, 2018, 03:41:31 PM
The more complexity the games has, the better it is. It would be nice to have some form of fishing. That is to say, for example mods that add hygiene do add complexity, but IMO it's too annoying and not fun, because it is mandatory in a way.
This is not true at all, your first sentence that is, while its true that adding depth complexity can make the game more interesting, making it a hassle and micro to manage would just make the game worse busy work. Just as the modded example you gave.
I for one am against fishing, since it would require a lot whole complexity to be satisfying, and in many ways just a cheaty way to find food, and therefor break game balance.
I wanted instead to have some form of hydration mechanics, just because its such a massive point in survival and could make a difference for example between an arid desert and settling near a river. But on the other hand if it was just adding another need and a well building, it would again just be pointless busy work bringing no more joy the game itself. Tynan is already working on this with the flowing river, bridge and waterwell generator, so I trust him to make the best decision there.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Trblz42 on June 20, 2018, 03:46:29 PM
I've just started a new map in the 1.0 unstable, so far I like it a lot.

The stockpile enhancements (see screenshot) are a big improvement but still have some issues:

Source stockpile
* Issue: when I select a source stockpile, I also get a list of 10+ incompatible stockpiles. In big bases, i have dozens of stockpiles and there is no need to see all of them marked as incompatible. Can this list be filtered out?
* Issue: there is only one "look in stockpile X" assignment per recipe. Stockpiles tend to fill up with the most available item and production will halt. If you have a 3-item recipe (like steel/component/plasteel) in stockpile X and X contains only steel - nothing will be produced as only steel is available.

Suggestion/idea: specialist stockpile with an "one-stack-of-each item" flag in it. This  forces the stockpile to reserve for every unique item in the item selection one spot. So if the item filter is for steel/components/plasteel, then a 3x1 stockpile will have space for one stack of steel, plasteel and components each. 
There are some consequences to this idea, like what happens when a stockpile size is not an exact multiple of the number of items in the filter. (3 items in filter vs size 2 or 4)

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Daniel_USA on June 20, 2018, 03:53:31 PM
Campfire requires 3 construction but stove doesn't.

I think the campfire and the stove are backwards.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 20, 2018, 04:34:06 PM
So alright Tynan, I'm playing it through and here are a few notes, I'm writing them down as I go and trying my best to keep only to bug/balance issues.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 20, 2018, 04:48:07 PM
Oh yeah another point about protective clothing, since they require still and whatnot they should be recycled at the smelter instead of just burned like normal clothes. That and that flak pants should be wear above regular pants, like protective pads, and the flak vest.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 20, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
After 2-3h of chill out playing on Cassandra Some Chalenge:
- clicking 'Clear all' in 'Dumping Stockpile' selects *Allow Rotten and *Allow fresh
- Textures looks like from 2 different games (i.e new texture of Fueled Smithy and Simple Research Bench)
- some textures looks strange/not represent stuff clearly (Steel - looks more like fabrics to me, Silver looks more like idk. steel maybe ?)
- combat feels easier
- moving colonists miniatures requires right-mouse-click -> took me some time since in B18 it took to world view
- trees needing research prior planting is good idea
- food poisoning might need tweaking a bit since it might make it easy to collapse colony early-on, if raid happens in bad moment (such is life though)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 20, 2018, 05:03:30 PM
Food poisoning doesn't might need tweaking. It definitely needs some. What do you even need to eat to get completely incapacitated? Gallons of rat poison? Shenanigans.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 20, 2018, 05:14:52 PM
Yea I went to rescue a downed person for a quest and one of my 2 guys got food poisoning on the way and couldn't participate. Only conclusion I made was he ate bullets and thought they were berries on his way >.>.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Call me Arty on June 20, 2018, 05:35:34 PM
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.

Boom. (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=36687.0) Rainbeau's always been great at those "now that you mention it, I would like to see that in the game" mods. It's fairly sensical and well thought-out too. It's a new job type, and uses the animals skill. I'd say it's pretty balanced, as it never really surpasses hunting. You might need to fish for a day to get the same amount of meet you'd expect from, say, a deer. It's tough to exploit, as there can only be so many fishing spots in the same area, meaning you probably need multiple water sources to fish from. At the same time, it can be a great way to train animal skill when you don't want that more mouths to feed, and a high enough skill can get you some pretty neat fish. I'm not getting my hopes up that it'll get added, but it'd be neat to see considered.

I'm pushing another build.
. . .
Raiders are no longer allowed to self-tend.

 Oh, c'mon Tynan! Maybe it's just a me-thing, but I like my enemies to have agency. If we can do it, why can't they? That's why I have a love-hate relationship with sieges and kidnappings. As somebody who has self-tending pawns, it's certainly not over-powered. Sure, if it meant removing all their pain, refilling them with all their lost blood, and making them infection-proof, I could see why it'd get removed, but I've never seen that happen. Worst-case scenario, the guy who was going to survive to flee with a couple scratches is going to flee with a couple bandages on those scratches. Best-case, we've got the same amount of enemies, except half as accurate and one or two good hits from going unconscious. If you were to take away their ability to self-tend, then you might as well take away their ability to tunnel through boxes we put them in, and remove the packaged survival meals from sieges.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 20, 2018, 05:43:33 PM
Food poisoning doesn't might need tweaking. It definitely needs some. What do you even need to eat to get completely incapacitated? Gallons of rat poison? Shenanigans.
The only case I had from food poisoning was a dog who ate pemmican, and still was during a time where I had a butcher next to my stove.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: doomdrvk on June 20, 2018, 05:44:59 PM
Can make a fueled stove but can't make a campfire? Tynan what is this thought process?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 20, 2018, 06:13:53 PM
I'm pushing another build.
....

I see some nice changes. Thanks, Tynan. I am really glad herbal medicine no longer takes a quadrum to grow and your graphic overhaul for 1.0 is nothing short of majestic.

The only thing that saddened me is that raiders now can't self tend. I was really surprised and glad when I saw that guests, allies and enemies actually got some brains, enough to dress those gaping wounds that'll kill them in couple hours. Unless allowing them self-tend is messing up something in their AI, or opens up an exploit for player to use - I suggest allowing them to self-tend again.

I would also like to make a humble request to leave those measly 3% for masterwork and legendary item crafting. Relying on quests and inspirations is like awaiting for rain in a desert. You can only hallucinate one, instead of getting it. Those are way too rare, they happen on absolutely random person (when all your guys decently happy), mostly not the one who can build\craft something useful and they're short, so crafting anything complex won't make it before inspiration ends. Can you please bring back those 3% chance to roll a legendary on level 20 skilled crafters\builders\artists?

Anyway, nice update. Big thanks for your hard work.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: medzernik on June 20, 2018, 06:23:18 PM
The more complexity the games has, the better it is. It would be nice to have some form of fishing. That is to say, for example mods that add hygiene do add complexity, but IMO it's too annoying and not fun, because it is mandatory in a way.
This is not true at all, your first sentence that is, while its true that adding depth complexity can make the game more interesting, making it a hassle and micro to manage would just make the game worse busy work. Just as the modded example you gave.
I for one am against fishing, since it would require a lot whole complexity to be satisfying, and in many ways just a cheaty way to find food, and therefor break game balance.
I wanted instead to have some form of hydration mechanics, just because its such a massive point in survival and could make a difference for example between an arid desert and settling near a river. But on the other hand if it was just adding another need and a well building, it would again just be pointless busy work bringing no more joy the game itself. Tynan is already working on this with the flowing river, bridge and waterwell generator, so I trust him to make the best decision there.

A fair point. Sometimes though, I wish the game was a bit more deep (I know mods can fix this, but many mods don't have the elegance that Tynan has with game design). The fishing would be annoying though, I agree.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 20, 2018, 07:17:33 PM
Found something weird in my crash landed start. My cat has been assigned the entire map besides my food. I see rats all around us but it won't hunt. If it can't figure it out soon we will be eating cat I suppose.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3087/NNpjId.png)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: HexCube on June 20, 2018, 07:37:55 PM
Hey Tynan, and all you other magnificent people working on the game, I haven't had a chance to play much of the unstable build, but from what I have, here's my feedback;

- Graphic overhauls are much appreciated, and were much needed - personally, I think they fit a lit more with the game. Side Note: I love the new green/red UI for placing buildings, much more obvious than the old one.
- The Ship AI core, I'm sure, exists only to frustrate those of us who enjoy symmetry. Please. For the love of symmetry. Make it either 2x2 cells or 4x4 - I don't care which, but I don't want to have to build two to make myself a symmetrical ship! Even up the resource cost a little, if you must :P
- I must say I agree with a lot of what people are saying about Legendary and Masterwork items, they were already pretty difficult to come across, requiring much of an investment in a pawn's skills, and many many resources just to get one or two - maybe reduce it from 3% to 2%, or even 1.5%, but I disagree with making them essentially uncraftable now - inspirations are too unreliable, and, in my experience, never happen to a pawn that will really benefit from them.
- As suggested, maybe fishing would be a good addition - I saw an earlier suggestion that would require no additional skill, and tie it to mele (spear fishing, I believe.) Obvoiusly it's not an essential feature, but I think it'd be nice to have, if it isn't a ridiculously difficult thing to implement.
- 64-bit is amazing, thank you for putting in the time and effort for it, it makes the game run smoother, and will make my post-1.0 100+ mod-filled colonies run at more than 3fps! Though it would seem that you've implemented a lot of QOL mods in 1.0 - a big thank-you for that!
- I know it's probably a pointless thing to ask, but would multi-core support be super difficult to implement at this stage? I have an overclocked i7 6700K, and a GTX 1080, but most of that power isn't used by Rimworld. I read what you've said on the subject, and agree that 64-bit will be better (as someone else mentioned) for battery on laptops, so would it then be possible for it to be a toggleable option? If not for 1.0, as it's probably a bit late now, would it maybe be a possibility for a future update?
- New armour - always welcomed, and the new armour system is a welcome addition. Though, as another user suggested, maybe negate blunt/sharp/piercing armour for cloth clothes, etc. and leave it to synththread, hyperweave, devilstrand, etc. Maybe stronger leathers too? I'd leave the heat/cold armour though, personally. A T-Shirt won't stop you getting shot, stabbed, or punched, but it will stop a burn for a while.
- Speaking of leathers, the cleaned up leather types is another change for the better - much appreciated. Maybe we could have something similar for meats, since most are similar. Perhaps separate them into avian (chicken, turkey, emu, etc.), white (fish? boar, pig, etc.), red (muffalo, thrumbo? alpaca?, etc.), human, insect, and dog (small mood debuff, or negated mood bonus? Most people would prefer not to eat a dog.) I feel like this would help de-clutter the interface even more.
- A little nitpicky thing, leftover from B18, may have been patched in the unstable release, but I haven't seen it anywhere. Could we have the game prevent bonded animals from being butchered automatically? Call me sentimental, but if my colony's husky dies, I don't want my colonists eating him/her for the next week, I want to give him/her a proper burial/sarcophagus. Just a suggestion. Maybe add a tag to their body, and an option to butcher recipies to prevent this? Maybe a small mood bonus, or lesser mood debuff to the bonded human if the animal is given a grave or sarcophagus?
- I agree with one of the above posts on stone walls, they take longer to build, are more sturdy, in real life, insulate fairly well, but in rimworld, you still need two layers if you want a decent freezer. Maybe buff their insulation for a bit of convenience/balance? Personally, I think their build time is a fair trade for their added benefits, but more insulation would be nice.
- On the topic of insulation, maybe there should be some sort of bonus with floors (though this may be ingame already, I don't know) - i.e. stone/steel floors provide more insulation than dirt? May be a little impractical, I'm not sure - thoughts?
- Can't remember if it was in the patch notes/changelog, and I haven't come across it yet, but is power armour still giving a -10% work speed? I would imagine it would be somewhat similar to an exosuit, boosting the user's strength, durability, armour, speed, workspeed, etc. Similarly, I would imagine that the power armour helmet would increase the wearer's sight/combat effectiveness - think inbuilt HUD. Just a thought :)

These are just my suggestions and feedback, overall, you've done an amazing job so far, and Rimworld remains one of my favourite games.  Thank-you Tynan (and the rest of your amazing dev team) for providing me, and many others with endless hours of fun.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: thegangmaster on June 20, 2018, 07:44:13 PM
Sometimes when a melee fighter attacks a gunner, the gunner shoots point-blank. This means grenadiers throw greandes at their feet, blowing themselves up. Is this a bug?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Crow_T on June 20, 2018, 08:52:15 PM
bug or feature, game doesn't pause on mad animal incident. I just got whooped as an ibex was on me and attacking pretty much instantly while playing at high speed. "Pause on urgent letter" is checked in options.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 20, 2018, 11:17:08 PM
Beginning of Jugust, 5501 with a tribe on a tropical swamp, told by Cassandra Rough.
(previously: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg412112#msg412112 and https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg411714#msg411714)

I've recruited a second animal trainer - not as skilled as the first, but useful for other things as well.
A boomalope and a second elephant have self-tamed, which is just silly. Are untrained animals supposed to obey area restrictions? Before that second elephant was trained, it tended to hang out in the barracks. At night. With all my colonists' delicate skulls resting in sleeping bags on the floor. It didn't crush anyone, but it did disturb their sleep about as much as you would expect.

There were heavy losses due to fire after a gunfight, but the Alpaca Strike Force has grown to twenty animals. It could be more, but there isn't any first-class wildlife left to tame. I may start going after wild elephants, since my primary trainer is now highly skilled.

There hasn't been a serious threat for quite some time now. Should I be worried?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 20, 2018, 11:17:23 PM
I see a new patch has come out. Wished I said this bit earlier:

When placing a blueprint for a sunlamp, it would be nice to see the outline of the light. I'm designing a hydroponics room while pausing and it's an equal annoyance to not remember the light outline.

EDIT: Also should mention, colonists hang around campfires that are dead. Whether that's a bug or not, well you do you Tynan.

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=39019.msg396957#msg396957
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dolphinizer on June 20, 2018, 11:26:29 PM
A few quick bits of feedback.
I think the being downed from just food poisoning thing is ridiculous and kind of obnoxious, if you don't have a high level chef it happens all the time and it really is annoying. Also currently waterwheels are way too strong, with the locking of solar panels behind a technology is means right now you pretty much have to drop by a river if you want viable earlygame power options in a low wood environment now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 01:53:21 AM
Campfire requires 3 construction but stove doesn't.

I think the campfire and the stove are backwards.


Yeah, and imagine you don't have such level of construction and your mining skill is so low that you can't mine enough steel within a few days for a stove.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 21, 2018, 02:15:23 AM
A few things:

Potential bug, not sure if new with UB1.0, but I never noticed it in B18, but pets fleeing when a creature goes manhunter, even when that creature attacks their own master. I've seen it happen twice with a warg; Once when the warg was hunting the creature and caused it to go manhunter, the second time a random manhunter event, the warg fled while it attacked the warg's master.

Regarding "tainted" clothes: Do they serve any purpose anymore, other than temporarily filling gaps in your own colonists' wardrobes? Before I could sell them for a pittance, but now no one buys tainted, even for basically nothing. I'm not sure I understand the motivation of this change, and now I'm starting to get large piles of clothing I can't easily get rid of; I've taken to sending them out with caravans so I can drop them into the wild, as I don't want to waste wood just to dispose of useless clothes.

Here's a bit of a Play Story. Is extreme cold killing hives a new thing?  I'm running a colony right now where there were three pre-existing hives on the map, and I built somewhat near to one of them. I walled off one entrance so that I could move past it without triggering an attack, but left the other two open, and forbade the area from my colonists and pets. As it was a temperate desert climate (30/60 growing) food was often scarce, both animal and plant, but I was able to keep things going by supplementing my meager rice crops with carefully stolen insect jelly. Then the cold snap came, right at the end of autumn and killed a large chunk of my crops; Little did I realize at the time, but it also killed the hives, releasing the bugs to roam around, and killing my supply of insect jelly. I made it through the winter largely because the bugs kept starving to death and I could use their corpses in meals, but by spring, I was literally living on the edge of starvation, even with resorting to cannibalism. I decided to send out a hunting expedition, forgetting that set-up camp was a mod, so I settled nearby, hunted some  camels, and headed back, abandoning the temporary settlement so I wouldn't get events and lag from the secondary map. But lo and behold, I couldn't repeat the attempt a few days later, when I was starting to run low on food, as "Abandoned Settlement" blocks any future attempts at settlement. I think this part isn't new, but I haven't run into it as a problem much before this time, and it really put a cramp in my food supply. I even attempted to send out my cook to forage for food (as well as keep my pack animals fed via grazing) but even with his increased foraging amounts, I'd burn through more food than I'd gain with this technique.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 02:41:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AaDdSho.png)

Thanks, Tynan, for this stuff.

Edit:// Although I'd be grateful if the next priority wouldn't go this way:
fine meals -> simple meals -> lavish meals -> nutrient paste meals -> pemmican -> rice.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mehni on June 21, 2018, 03:38:47 AM
Shouldn't the removal of the Force Miss Radius for the minigun be accompanied by the removal of its ability to target everywhere? It's now more of a "gun" rather than "aim in this general direction" machine.

Conversely, the Incendiary launcher SHOULD have the ability to target everywhere. It's an explosive device with a radius, it would make sense to Aim Incendiary Anywhere. Apart from that it sees far more use against groups of raiders after they've died, if you catch my drift.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: YoruOokami on June 21, 2018, 03:39:28 AM
I'm having a few red errors when pawns have a tantrum, usually happens a few seconds after the notification. I have one mod (Numbers) in 1.0 latest version and the save is 1 version old.

Log:

Okay so the logs too big I think for the forum, How do I attach it is like a closable text box or a file?
I think the logs about the specific pawn having a tantrum starting 10 jobs in 10 ticks and it lists the jobs?, I'm not too good at reading the log- also it happened repeatedly throughout the entire tantrum, sometimes without letting me close the window for more then a second.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 21, 2018, 04:35:49 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm reading carefully.

Yoru: If you just copy the error part out of the log you could paste it in a bug report in the bugs forum. You can text search the file for "error".

Pushing another build. Rough change list:

-----

Differentiated colors of different variants of the same faction type.
Remove uranium cost from shield belt.
Applied Jon's new properly-aligned wood floor texture, and made the burned version for it. Applied Jon's proper headless projectile graphics for firefoam and incendiary shells that match the item graphics (e.g. no head).
Rebalanced deep resources: More resources per cell, smaller but more numerous lumps, plasteel and uranium more common, silver moved to same low commonality as jade and gold.
Revert some recent increases to sowing time.
Reduce food poison chances significantly.
Adjusted poker table graphics to standard table style (filling the cells).
Solve a quirk where some items are faster to craft at crafting spot than on proper benches (e.g. tribalwear). Solution: -Set crafting spot to 50% speed. -Crafting spot and butcher spot are both now subject to temperature and outdoors work speed penalties. -Made smokeleaf joint and pekoe makeable at drug lab. -Adjusted work speed penalties, outdoors 80%->90%, bad temperature 60%->70%.
Group melee-related stats away from ranged-related stats.
Group Miss Radius and Direct Hit Chance stats.
Add Direct Hit Chance to shot report.
Fixed bugs, made a debug output for, and rebalanced the code that adjusts backstory selection chances to try to achieve a relatively even spread of work disable commonalities.
Fix 3442: Typo in Mini-Turret's description
Intercept_Object_HitChancePerFillPercent 0.10 -> 0.15
-Random intercept chance for wild projectiles is now the same as hitting cover for world objects adjacent to the target. This solves issues where if two people are hunkered behind sandbags, it can be weirdly likely to hit the neighbor of your true target since the sandbags don’t protect him at all, while they do protect your true target. Unfortunately this doesn’t perfectly solve the issue when the shooter misses *behind* the target since the sandbags aren’t adjacent to the target point. Still have to work on that. -Fix: Shots can randomly intercept targets who are inside the destination cell (now it only hits using the target cell impact code). -Improve on-map shooting debug output. -Increased chance factor for randomly intercepting world objects for wild shots 0.07 -> 0.10. -Intercept_Pawn_HitChanceFactor_LayingDown 0.10 -> 0.15. -Condense shooting-related tunable constants into ShootTunings
Fix: If a hunt target gets up after being downed, it still gets slaughtered in melee.
Added XML translation handles so it's easier to translate list elements.
Added RulePack.rulesFiles field which just instantiates specially formatted Rule_Files so translators can add more Rule_Files. Added MayTranslate attribute.
Fix 3448: Buildings marked for deconstruction yield no resources, so colonists should not refuel them
Added translation repos clone/push scripts.
Minor clarity text changes in bill config dialog.
Open doors no longer always intercept stray bullets. Chance reduced to 5%.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XghosT7 on June 21, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Pushing another build. Rough change list:
-Snap

Hello tynan, there is a mechanic that's a bit weird in the game, for example:

I go force harvest 3 berry bushes and when my pawn is done it comes back to base to do some other job but it DOESNT HAUL the berrys, i have to manually make her haul it and sometimes that's really annoying because a berry bush might be a bit far than the other so it doesnt even collect all berrys just 2 of them and leaves the 3rd unhauled cause its a bit far.. so i have to take 2 back and then force haul the 3rd one too, could u look for a better implementation for this or explain why its like that? i dont really mind the 2nd problem that i mentioned but the first one is really clunky...

I see another clunkyness too:

How can campfire require 3 construction to be built and stove is 0?, i think it should be the opposite way, logically campfire should be way easier than setting up a stove....
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Canute on June 21, 2018, 05:01:43 AM
Quote
Differentiated colors of different variants of the same faction type.
What do you think about to add a choose colour at the faction tab, so player can modify the colour at their needs.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 05:29:37 AM
I am really liking the changes, though i'd still prefer to not have simple food poisoning knock out colonists, instead of making it less common. Because its still weird as all hell to see a pawn drop from eating some berries.

Glad to see maps deep resources rebalanced. In this case i am fine with them being longer to mine and causing bugs to spawn - at least they're richer and can sustain you for longer time. Nice.

And what can i say about shooting changes? Amazing! Projectiles hitting a pawn thats next to the target with near 100% probability even behind sandbags was one big complaint of mine, you always had to just scatter them as far as you can to avoid constant damage. This one change will definitely make direct confrontations with raiders more of a viable way to defeat raids.

Well and i guess I still hold a little hope of seeing masterwork\legendary qualities back from the abyss and raiders having brains to patch themselves up.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: FrozenSnowFox on June 21, 2018, 05:42:14 AM
Made smokeleaf joint and pekoe makeable at drug lab.

Glad to see this was added.  The smokeleaf recipe still specifically excludes workspeedstat and workskill though.  It's the only drug that does not become faster to craft with bionics or other bonuses which is a bit weird.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 21, 2018, 05:46:35 AM
Made smokeleaf joint and pekoe makeable at drug lab.

Glad to see this was added.  The smokeleaf recipe still specifically excludes workspeedstat and workskill though.  It's the only drug that does not become faster to craft with bionics or other bonuses which is a bit weird.

Really? I didn't even realize that and I can't imagine why. I tend to forget why my game works as it does after a year or two. Will have to look into it. Goldfish life.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 21, 2018, 06:00:57 AM
Will wood's blunt and possibly heat resistance StuffPower stats get nerfed? There are some odd quirks with wood compared to steel, best shown through a simple armour StuffPower comparison.

Wood:
    - 30% sharp resistance
    - 30% blunt resistance
    - 50% heat resistance

Steel:
    - 50% sharp resistance
    - 25% blunt resistance
    - 40% heat resistance

While some wood types are durable, surely they can't be any more durable than solid steel. Also, heat resistance should definitely be lower since wood would easily combust when in contact with flames, whereas steel wouldn't. I guess the rationale for the latter is the fact that metal is conductive, and damp wood might be more effective in this case?

Also, maybe stuffed melee weapons should use a similar StuffPower setup to apparel, since they still use the old weapon types as bases and material multipliers, rather than the other way around. It probably won't have any impact on gameplay, but it'll make them consistent with apparel which could be easier for newer players.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: YoruOokami on June 21, 2018, 06:03:44 AM
A suggestion (Thanks for the answer to my last post by the way, Will do that)
Is there some way for the AI (Pathing?) of pawns to be altered, in a way that meant that they tended to try and avoid walking through rooms that other pawns were sleeping in- not a super strong, must avoid pathing, but a "If possible" kind of avoid, and even further/alternatively if there was a way to label a room as a pawns and other pawns wont go in there unless ordered to, or theres a danger inside it? (Such as a fire, or being order to hide in it/equip a weapon in it)

So for example, in a starter house with a barrack and the fastest route is to go through the barrack to get to the dining table, but theres another door a little further away. Currently the pawn will head through the barrack and annoy all the sleeping pawns at night to get a midnight snack. With this altered behaviour/pathing the pawn will instead take a couple extra steps and avoid annoying/waking up all of his fellow colonists. After all its only polite :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 21, 2018, 06:32:18 AM
Some thoughts on 1.0 Unstable after my second all-night session:

Things I really like:

-The Family/Raid relationships add excellent depth to the game story; so far, I've managed to recruit a father, his brother, and captured his son during a Pirate raid; the son is at 93% difficulty to recruit, however.  I'd love to see the probability of recruitment get modified (easier) based on how many family members are in the colony already.

-Smoothing stone walls is great; love the beauty modifier.

-Watermills, even slightly debuffed in the latest update, are excellent.

-Thank you, Tynan, for decreasing the frequency of Food Poisoning; only two instances in an all-night session.  It feels much more reasonable, although I'd still like to see the ability to send a colonist to a medical bed, even if the poisoning severity can't be mitigated by medicine.


Things I'm not crazy about:

-Minimum skills for basic survival items (Building a campfire, crafting a Short Bow come immediately to mind)

-The grouping together of all 10 Area zones, instead of 5 for Pawns, 5 for Animals; having 10 options visible on the screen at once makes it far more difficult to quickly identify the zones and select them, since the zone names become truncated and unreadable.  It also increases the chances of making an error in choosing a zone, since they're much smaller to click on. Slide selecting vertically down the column is much harder to do accurately (like when you'd select all animals to a "Barn" zone during a raid).

-Two toggle buttons which seperate room stats from "beauty" graphic indicators, instead of one button that includes both stats; it's a bit unwieldy, and I enjoyed having all stats on one toggle.

Things I'm actively disliking:

-The removal of boar capability to haul.  I understand that boar swarms were very OP, but the solution would seem simple: remove the ability to follow a master, and the ability to release in an attack.  Their real utility was their ability to haul, without having to ramp up Kibble production for Dogs, which can easily strangle an early game's food supply (in both meat and Hay production).  Pigs don't work in this role either, IMO: they can't be found and tamed in the wild, and they'll die on colder maps. 

My suggestion would be to give only large Predatory *wild* animals (Bears, Wolves, Wargs and Large Cats only...and not Foxes, Elephants, Rhinos, Megasloths or Thrumbos) and Huskies the ability to attack/follow.  The upkeep cost of this category would seem to offset the benefits of having them attack, in my estimation, and would make building a meat shield very expensive...and equally as expensive to rebuild.


Bugs:

-Only one encountered so far: a wooden floor could not be cleaned of dirt over several game days, regardless of which pawn attempted it.  All prerequisites were met (floor was zoned as "Home" area, all colonists assigned to cleaning and "Unrestricted", pawns left the room and returned later).  The floor was deconstructed and re-constructed, and could then be cleaned normally.

Thanks for reading!  I've got about 20 hours into 1.0 compared to about 2,500 hours in B18...I'm really eager to see how gameplay develops once I get into mid-game!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 07:04:34 AM
Increased rate at which those damned family members show up in raids is actually a really bad thing i kinda wish it was toned down back to B18 level. With game's usual death\down check for me it always ends up with atrocious mood debuffs "my great grand father's second cousin's brother died, he was such a wonderful person!" despite said person trying to eat his face off, followed by "I am gonna kill every last one of you!" because my mood is so low.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 21, 2018, 07:59:03 AM
-The grouping together of all 10 Area zones, instead of 5 for Pawns, 5 for Animals; having 10 options visible on the screen at once makes it far more difficult to quickly identify the zones and select them, since the zone names become truncated and unreadable.  It also increases the chances of making an error in choosing a zone, since they're much smaller to click on. Slide selecting vertically down the column is much harder to do accurately (like when you'd select all animals to a "Barn" zone during a raid).

I'd like to see something kind of like Fluffy's Work Tab, with side-turned column texts, that you can select the area en-masse; Single click to send every pawn to one area.

Quote
-Two toggle buttons which seperate room stats from "beauty" graphic indicators, instead of one button that includes both stats; it's a bit unwieldy, and I enjoyed having all stats on one toggle.

Just a vote in the opposite direction. Really glad it came back to two buttons, as I often just leave the room-stat button on, but the beauty stat toggle is largely situational.

Play Story
New campaign today, and man Recreation is really rough! My colony has been on the edge of losing it (and has lost it, many times) because of recreation demand, and they tend to almost exclusively choose the horseshoe pin over other types of recreation, even when dexterity-based recreation resistance is nearly maxed out. I know I need more forms of recreation, but I'm barely getting the basics up still, having just got beds and bedrooms for everyone, and researched batteries so that my wind power's sporadic input doesn't let my food rot;
The research requirements for some things we used to have off the get-go definitely make the early game more difficult than it was, though I think this is a good thing; Research always seemed like a luxury, something I started once the colony was established; Now it seems like an absolute must, just to get things really rolling along. As a crash-landed, I have to balance hunting against food usage almost the same way I had to as a tribal start, until I can finally get steady electricity; If I'd started near a river that'd probably be less of a factor, but my starts so far have been mostly desert; This time at least I have a few small patches of fertile soil and endless summer; Though the heat waves have been nigh murderous.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 08:52:33 AM
Increased rate at which those damned family members show up in raids is actually a really bad thing i kinda wish it was toned down back to B18 level. With game's usual death\down check for me it always ends up with atrocious mood debuffs "my great grand father's second cousin's brother died, he was such a wonderful person!" despite said person trying to eat his face off, followed by "I am gonna kill every last one of you!" because my mood is so low.

Family members of colonists (and prisoners maybe) ought to get no magical chance to die as others do. Family encounter is supposed to be an opportunity of something positive, instead of a curse many times worse than a psychic drone. Once I recruited a pawn whose 3 family members attacked within a quadrum and they all died. It was a terrifying debuff.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Flacwby on June 21, 2018, 09:09:27 AM
Not sure if this is intended, but all eggs produced now are fert. There are 0 unfert. eggs produced. As I recall from Beta versions there was a chance eggs would be fert. but not 100%.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 21, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
The Positives:

1. Colonists ALL go to the recroom and play poker, pool, chess together! It's so rewarding seeing all your pawns have fun! It makes me wish there were more joy items.

2. The quest rewards are JUST right. Still nonsensical (24 shirts for excellent Plate Armor you got it) mind, but seeing those Silver values makes you want to go out more often. The rewards are 100% worth it.

3. Armor is way better. Not great, I know it's still bring tweaked, but I actually rush armor and try to get good helmets on my doctors. Looking forward to improvements.

4. Have about 8 or so animals on the colony (boomalopes, alpacas, etc) and despite the panic, there doesn't to be too much of an issue in regards to obedience decay.

5. The +18 to saving a family member, super great touch. Lasts 30 days too!

6. Prosthetics are just perfect at 85%. Some of my pawns have scarred limbs and replacing it to get rid if it is actually quite a reasonable strategy. The healing serums from the quests help too, as is the debuff so that players don't Robocop their entire colony.

Not So Positives:

1. Doctors still choose to relax at the table instead of hauling ass and patching up wounds. I think this is very much because the schedule is set to Joy. I think the Doctoring priority should ignore schedule, and players should wake up their doctors if napping as it is.

2. The incapitated refugee should at the bare minimum, tell the player the danger they're in. You can even be vague and not precisely tell the kind of threats. Stuff like "armed men" or "dangerous predator" should be enough of a hint. Maybe a rough number on the amount of hostiles? Don't want to send 3 dudes but found out I'm stumbling to a raider outpost.

3. The rescued should get a buff of sorts, like the happy family member.

4. In regards to saving a refugee, most of the time they are incapitated and thanks to the fact that the quests are closer, don't have time to heal. Queee the caravan arriving victorious except they plop the poor sucker down whey the enter and the player needs to manually rescue them. Hillarious sure, but confusing to a new player.

5. Low Expectations is a buff given to colonists when travelling. This is good but insufficient, as my colonists arriving at the site are totally bored out of their skull. Joy should freeze or have a new Wanderlust moodlet.

6. Lack of a greathelm/bascinet/armet saddens me. Also we need repeaters. We totally need it. Because reasons.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 21, 2018, 10:48:21 AM
I've notice a few things break the early goings for naked brutality:

Food poisoning: right now this is overtuned.  You run a good chance of instant game over on RNG via being attacked while down unless you roll for a good cook w/o exception. 

Early disease: you can apparently contract malaria or such within the first month of play.  Again, this is instant game over on RNG unless your medical stat is ridiculous, and maybe even then since it will impact tend quality.  Grace period might be useful on this.

Game would still greatly benefit from predator hunt alert too.  It's still very asymmetric to have a random timber wolf that wandered into the map a few days ago be a larger threat than an AI sapper raid on extreme difficulty just because you didn't notice it on the wildlife tab list in time.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Revshawn on June 21, 2018, 11:33:59 AM
I'll tell you one thing. Playing this game from Naked Survivor going upwards has given me a deep appreciation for the Greatbow volley. There is something quite special about everyone loosing their arrow at the same time, the enemy being overcome by a hail of death, the grim reaper given physical form.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 11:57:33 AM
I've notice a few things break the early goings for naked brutality:

Food poisoning: right now this is overtuned.  You run a good chance of instant game over on RNG via being attacked while down unless you roll for a good cook w/o exception. 

Early disease: you can apparently contract malaria or such within the first month of play.  Again, this is instant game over on RNG unless your medical stat is ridiculous, and maybe even then since it will impact tend quality.  Grace period might be useful on this.

Game would still greatly benefit from predator hunt alert too.  It's still very asymmetric to have a random timber wolf that wandered into the map a few days ago be a larger threat than an AI sapper raid on extreme difficulty just because you didn't notice it on the wildlife tab list in time.

I can feel your pain, I've already lost a game within a few days. But on the other hand, you shouldn't expect devs to make it easier for this game mode. As it's described, this is supposed to be directed for hardcore players.

Food poisoning? You gotta secure yourself asap keeping in mind that a raid may occur while you're resting.

Early disease? You simply settle into an area with the least disease frequency. Avoid swamps and forests.

Predator attacking? Well, you gotta make sure there are other preys the predator would be interested in, especially when you're starting with no apparel. Then make a ranged weapon and fight kiting, using internal rooms.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 21, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
Not sure if this is intended, but all eggs produced now are fert. There are 0 unfert. eggs produced. As I recall from Beta versions there was a chance eggs would be fert. but not 100%.

Any eggs that aren't chicken eggs have always been fert-only. This is nothing new.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 21, 2018, 12:43:16 PM
I had some time to play the new version and here is my feedback. I didn't take the time to read everything above, so I hope there is nothing that is already reported a dozen times.

- Will there be a way to set 64 bit a default option on start so one doesn't have to extra click every time?

- I had multiple raids early where one of the enemy pawn had a full set of only excellent cloth. Not sure if that is a bug or it comes from a very high equipment value on generation and because (I think) attacking pawns can't spawn with better quality, it just results in a full excellent set.

- Why do smoothed stone walls give +2 beauty when even silver and gold walls give none? This is a way too big boost for mountain bases, also for no costs beside some work.

- I played extreme desert and starting without solar and batteries made it a lot harder. I like that, but playing on a river map kills all this challenge and makes it incredibly easier with the good constant power output of the watermill and no research needed for it. Sure the watermill should have an advantage to even build it, but I think this is too much for just a bunch of wood as costs. This results in a "if you play on a river, you don't need any other power source or batteries". An idea: Make the power generation not constant. Irl rivers (coming from mountains) have more water in spring/summer when snow melts and less in winter. I don't know if this will work in Rimworld, because a year is very long and nobody wants to build enough batteries to store power for half a year. But I like the idea of having a power source with longer with a longer cycle then just day/night  and maybe it would work when shifting between 600 and 1k power or the like.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 12:50:06 PM
You can just make a 64bit shortcut on your desktop its not really a huge issue with one more click. Agreed about the walls. I think all walls, save for wooden ones, should have some beauty to them  Especially those from jade, silver and gold. That would be a nice touch. Or adding whole new type of walls that takes much more materials to build, but has some beauty, that gets influenced by material beauty stat
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Flacwby on June 21, 2018, 01:35:19 PM
Not sure if this is intended, but all eggs produced now are fert. There are 0 unfert. eggs produced. As I recall from Beta versions there was a chance eggs would be fert. but not 100%.

Any eggs that aren't chicken eggs have always been fert-only. This is nothing new.

Sorry I was referring to chicken eggs. 100% of chicken eggs are now fert.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 21, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
- Will there be a way to set 64 bit a default option on start so one doesn't have to extra click every time?
What is the point in asking anyway? Why would anybody pick 32 bit on a 64 bit OS? Ask the OS how many bits it's using and pick the exe based on that. Add some option in properties for those rare cases where people aren't happy with the autodetected value.

You can just make a 64bit shortcut on your desktop its not really a huge issue with one more click.
I clicked create shortcut and it starts the 32 bit version. Also anybody claiming the extra clicks at startup to be a minor issue clearly aren't making their own mods, which needs testing, adjustments, testing, etc, which results in frequent starting of the game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
I clicked create shortcut and it starts the 32 bit version. Also anybody claiming the extra clicks at startup to be a minor issue clearly aren't making their own mods, which needs testing, adjustments, testing, etc, which results in frequent starting of the game.

You go to your Rimworld folder, find a file "RimWorldWin64.exe" and make a shortcut to that file. Then it starts 64bit version properly. I guarantee its a faster way of getting rid of your 2-extra-clicks problem than waiting for devs to fix it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 21, 2018, 02:23:17 PM
I clicked create shortcut and it starts the 32 bit version. Also anybody claiming the extra clicks at startup to be a minor issue clearly aren't making their own mods, which needs testing, adjustments, testing, etc, which results in frequent starting of the game.

You go to your Rimworld folder, find a file "RimWorldWin64.exe" and make a shortcut to that file. Then it starts 64bit version properly. I guarantee its a faster way of getting rid of your 2-extra-clicks problem than waiting for devs to fix it.
You disable all steam features by starting the game from the exe instead of through steam, which is the very reason why the question was introduced to steam in the first place.

Starting the exe directly is ok right now when people playtest vanilla, but in say two months when the workshop is full of mods, it's no longer as fun to disable all mods downloaded through the workshop. This startup issue really should be fixed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 02:26:01 PM
I don't really care about Steam features, but if you do - then yeah, you will have to bear with two additional clicks before getting to play. As for mods - starting from executable files doesn't prevent you from playing with mods.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 21, 2018, 02:47:19 PM
Found a really horrible and weird chain reaction for mental breaks. My character had a minor break for dazed. Lasted almost the entire day and when it was over they were low on sleep, joy and food (minor starvation). As they came out of dazed because of these things they were at extreme break risk and went catatonic for like a week + before they could get to their meal.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: giltirn on June 21, 2018, 03:03:54 PM
-The removal of boar capability to haul.  I understand that boar swarms were very OP, but the solution would seem simple: remove the ability to follow a master, and the ability to release in an attack.  Their real utility was their ability to haul, without having to ramp up Kibble production for Dogs, which can easily strangle an early game's food supply (in both meat and Hay production).  Pigs don't work in this role either, IMO: they can't be found and tamed in the wild, and they'll die on colder maps. 

Really, no more boar hauling? That's terrible. Boars are the only animals I ever kept because they could be obtained and fed reliably and they could do useful work. Dogs are a poor substitute because of the meat requirement and their propensity to snack on all the drugs. Please reconsider this Tynan!

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Azrael_Itaru on June 21, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
Or if we are going to get nerfs on animal's intelligence then can animals PLEASE be recoded to not consume drugs? I've never used drugs in Rimworld because I hate losing animals to them.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 03:20:57 PM
I am inclined to agree. However hilarious it is to see huskies with cirrhosis, i am kinda tired of having to replenish my booze supply because my dogs learned how to open bottles... Pretty please, master Tynan?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
Here are some more notes I got, mind you from playing yesterday, so not the latest patch:
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 21, 2018, 04:00:20 PM
I've notice a few things break the early goings for naked brutality:

Food poisoning: right now this is overtuned.  You run a good chance of instant game over on RNG via being attacked while down unless you roll for a good cook w/o exception. 

Early disease: you can apparently contract malaria or such within the first month of play.  Again, this is instant game over on RNG unless your medical stat is ridiculous, and maybe even then since it will impact tend quality.  Grace period might be useful on this.

Game would still greatly benefit from predator hunt alert too.  It's still very asymmetric to have a random timber wolf that wandered into the map a few days ago be a larger threat than an AI sapper raid on extreme difficulty just because you didn't notice it on the wildlife tab list in time.

I can feel your pain, I've already lost a game within a few days. But on the other hand, you shouldn't expect devs to make it easier for this game mode. As it's described, this is supposed to be directed for hardcore players.

Food poisoning? You gotta secure yourself asap keeping in mind that a raid may occur while you're resting.

Early disease? You simply settle into an area with the least disease frequency. Avoid swamps and forests.

Predator attacking? Well, you gotta make sure there are other preys the predator would be interested in, especially when you're starting with no apparel. Then make a ranged weapon and fight kiting, using internal rooms.

No notification about predator hunting is just a strict QoL design issue, so it's unlike the others.

Your other suggestions are non-starters.  Less chance of instant loss to RNG is still chance of instant loss on RNG.  Putting yourself in tundra or whatever doesn't mean you can't get malaria before you can possibly survive it.

I got food poisoned despite cooking inside a small, clean room with flooring.  It's impossible to have a nicer environment than this in opening 10 days.  If you don't reroll for good cooking skill, surviving this phase of the game is pure RNG.

Do not mistake "challenge" and "luck dependency".  These are fundamentally opposed concepts.  The more your outcome is contingent on RNG rather than player choices/execution, the less skill is a meaningful contributor to the outcome.

Removal of skill is not skill, nor is it credible as a challenge.  I've been doing 1 man starts with tribal tech on extreme difficulty for multiple patches now.  1.0 introduced more pure RNG to these openings than it removed, and that is not a good direction for the game.  For most design elements, player choices and preparation matters. 

I'm not keen on the concept of "starting pawn absolutely must have good skill in X or you will die most of the time".  That's especially true when you need multiple skills (cooking and medicine at minimum).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mitz on June 21, 2018, 04:13:17 PM
by the way, balance is overdone. used to be a lot of fun to play rimworld...
so you're telling me i get 3 people food poisoned with a 8+ cook in a stone floor kitchen, which they all down at the same time, leaving me with 3 colonists? O-O
i think i need to repeat some things:
if i can think of 5 or more, i will make another post.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 04:17:53 PM
@TheMeInTeam

The same RNG can kill your colonist with a bow during a fight despite covering well. The same RNG can give you permanent injuries, etc. You simply make strategies that maximally decrease the chance of loss, that's how you play RimWorld on a difficulty of your level.

Btw are you on Randy?


However, I agree, Tynan has to nerf this food poisoning stuff.

Iirc downed colonists make raids easier.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 21, 2018, 04:31:31 PM
by the way, balance is overdone. used to be a lot of fun to play rimworld...
so you're telling me i get 3 people food poisoned with a 8+ cook in a stone floor kitchen, which they all down at the same time, leaving me with 3 colonists? O-O
i think i need to repeat some things:
  • recreation is impossible to fulfill late game
  • caravans can magically disappear without story (your favorite thing) because your 2 colonists got downed in the same second.
  • there are no animals to teach hauling anymore.
  • you changed pump shotguns to be no longer be viable now, any scenario. too short of range compared to chain shotguns having the same range.
  • my colonists keep breaking up just before being married????????????
  • soaking wet is not a fun balance to water turbines.
  • i think set-up camp is gonna have to add in a lot more code because you removed ore from encounter maps.
  • a balance to bionics would be to have the rich explorer start remove the decrease of mood because of bionics. other colonies would still have the debuff, but rich explorer would have more glitterworld expectations.
  • goddamnit, sir doodles is very sad that he's the fault of your dirty "drill balance". it's overbalanced, OKAY?!
if i can think of 5 or more, i will make another post.

-Hauling animals have moved to something that is cherished instead of expendable fighters. That skill is placed on more rare creatures that are harder to train. Seems a worthy balance to me since boars were way to insanly op. (basically only viable strategy on any map that had them which is almost all).

-Water turbines are borderline op. You  no longer need batteries if you plan properly. Besides reserve batteries specifically for turrets. Plus bridges is basically teraforming. If you don't like the river soaking colonist you can remove all the river on the map with bridges (not that you need to).

-Moving tiles takes like .3 days. You can travel to a tile and enter it (enable more than 1 colony in your options) with no food or any supplies and do it that way if for some reason you are unprepared.

-I personally did the extreme version of rich settler ( naked brutal ). The key is picking your starting character carefully. Having your only colonist have any type of mood debuff traits isn't a smart move.

-You are comparing pump shotgun to a chain shotgun? Why not make the same claim for bolt action rifle to sniper rifle. Or assault rifle to charged rifle. I used pump shotguns almost exclusively on my extreme brutal campain. They are one of the best early game weapons. Of course if a higher teir weapon like a charged rifle or chain shotgun dropped i'd use that instead. But wtf?

Not sure why recreation can't befufilled. I have seen no issues with that. But my guys have set joy times after they wake up and before bed. With 3 our gap without working to do anything they wish.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 21, 2018, 04:42:42 PM
@TheMeInTeam

The same RNG can kill your colonist with a bow during a fight despite covering well.

That's just the thing.  No, it can't.  Unless I screw up micromanagement or reads on AI raiders, it's not happening.  If I do make such a mistake, I can't reasonably blame it on RNG.  That's an execution error on my part.

When I'm playing well, I can be the one with the bow and still win safely.

Quote
The same RNG can give you permanent injuries, etc. You simply make strategies that maximally decrease the chance of loss, that's how you play RimWorld on a difficulty of your level.

And with the overwhelming majority of things in the game, including raids and nearly every other event, the "chance of loss" on the order of pawn death or permanent injury is next to nothing with perfect play.  When a malaria proc in the first 15 days is worse for me than an 8 vs 3 raid scenario where the 8 raiders have better weapons, there's something wrong with the RNG-based outcomes on malaria.

Agency doesn't just matter to this game, agency in terms of both planning and execution is a core premise of playing Rimworld.  When an implementation cuts into this agency by adding 100% RNG variance, what you have is a skill-equalizing implementation.  What does it add to the game?  Almost nothing, unless you consider rerolling extra times so you're less vulnerable to RNG death after memorizing that you can be killed at random if you don't do it a "meaningful choice".
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 05:02:03 PM
Are you playing on Randy?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 21, 2018, 05:18:21 PM
I agree with themaninteam. I played b18 with naked brutal scenario on extreme Cassandra in the desert, icesheet and jungle. You have a HUGE amount of control over your pawns living or dieing in b18 although I don't agree that 1 unlucky shot can't kill them. I've seen a guy with a bow kill my person with a sniper rifle 14 skill in shooting (but it is rare and part of the fun for me). In 1.0 he already stated he fixed food poisoning on page 17. I do agree disease early game seems ramped up. I would rather more raids early on, than disease since it is more unforgiving. having to fight an 8 on 1 battle with a bow and savaging for weapons during the fight is much more fun and rewarding than having to slowly die from the plague before you even have a second colonist or real medication >.>.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jumper on June 21, 2018, 05:48:40 PM
Not player the 1.0 release yet but just wanted to ask, is the check box for allow non-dead mans apparel still the same ? it would make more logical sense to change it to allow dead mans apparel as this should be the exception not the norm.

amazing feedback from tynan so far.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ssateneth on June 21, 2018, 08:09:39 PM
Pawns like to just move the same rock al lday long from 1 spot to another. See clip.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SincereDarkMoonSeemsGood
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: saulysw on June 21, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Two bits of feedback --

1. Pawns don't seem to be using the new opportunistic hauling as much as I would like. eg After a battle outside with loot lying everywhere (not forbidden), they walked past it all back to the base.
2. I had a meteor land a little way from the base, and set it to be mined. It is frustrating to see a miner take the trip there, hit it once, then decide he wants to play horseshoes and starts heading back to base. I have to micro him to do that work properly. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: JavaWho on June 21, 2018, 08:42:55 PM
Torches and Passive Coolers:  They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request.  If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?  Often with passive coolers you only need them for a few days, they are in the way but the reward is worth it.  If you no longer need it and it has just been filled with a full supply of wood, currently you lose the resources.  In some biomes this may not be an issue but in others it truly is.  It seems passive coolers along with everything else upon deconstruction should continue to yield resources.

Thank you
Java
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 21, 2018, 10:23:12 PM
Torches and Passive Coolers:  They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request.  If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?
Something like "turn off" function on them could help a lot.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MarvinKosh on June 21, 2018, 10:48:45 PM
If you don't need them any more, marking them for decon will suppress refuelling, if I'm reading the most recent change log properly.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: cactusmeat on June 21, 2018, 10:54:37 PM
not sure if this is intended but i had captured 10 people from a hostile raid, releasing 6 of them raised their faction relation with me to neutral, but i kept 4 prisoners to recruit. later on when they were no longer considered guilty these prisoners left the prison when my pawns milked a muffalo in the doorway (those idiots) and i had my colonists arrest the escaping prisoners... they had never gained their freedom yet when i "captured" them i lost 20 faction rep per arrest.

I just want to know if this is intended/why it would be. especially since they were peaceful arrests

edit: did they leave the milk in the doorway because it was instantly set to prison food?

Also it has always bugged the hell out of me that night owls get -5 for being in darkness

I'd love a chop mature trees order, because i'm a min maxer and individually clicking on every tree every day isn't very fun
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jamaicancastle on June 21, 2018, 11:34:52 PM
- Why do smoothed stone walls give +2 beauty when even silver and gold walls give none? This is a way too big boost for mountain bases, also for no costs beside some work.
Because they have no "cost" (besides work), they also have no value. Smoothed floors have higher beauty than constructed floors for the same reason. Although they contribute more to the room's beauty, they don't contribute to wealth, so their effect on impressiveness is (approximately) equivalent.

At least, that's the theory.

Torches and Passive Coolers:  They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request.  If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?
Something like "turn off" function on them could help a lot.
IIRC, buildings that are both refuelable and flickable (fueled generators being the main example) don't get refueled while flicked off, though I'd have to double-check that.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 21, 2018, 11:48:24 PM
I can confirm there is no toggle on torches and passive coolers.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 12:59:47 AM
Some comments based on other's comments, and my own play experience.

- I have literally zero interest in smoothed walls, and will absolutely be using RF's mod if/when it gets updated to 1.0. Why? Because I don't care about beautiful walls. I've lived my whole life without walls that were beautiful, merely functional. Vanilla smoothed walls are not functional in the way that RF's smoothed walls, and constructed walls are; i.e. they allow electrical lines to run under them. The fact that smoothed walls are beautiful and constructed walls are not is also completely nonsensical; Something like RF's mod that walls can be sculpted to add beauty if you want would be better, and having it applicable to both smoothed walls and constructed walls.

- Hostile escape pod pawns: is this a new feature, a bug, or maybe a mod conflict? None of my mods should be touching pawns, but it's possible it's the latter. Would be curious if others are seeing this, as I haven't seen mention of it yet.

- Flickable versions of campfires, torches and passive coolers would be a solid improvement. Sometimes you don't want to deconstruct, because you will want the resource later, in the same spot, with the same settings (in the case of campfires) but you don't want to spend the resources to keep the resource running while you're not using it.

- Opportunistic hauling definitely feels tuned low. As others have mentioned, you'll send a pawn, manually, across the map to harvest a resource, and they'll leave it there. Pawns released from combat will leave clothes, weapons, etc. on the ground even when they're not forbidden, even immediately following the order to strip an enemy pawn. Manual hunting also has this problem; In some cases, it's because a pawn across the map will reserve an item for hauling, but not always.

- Related to the former, the function added back in A17? where you could easily override another pawn on an object seems to be sporadically working at best. You'll sometimes get the "reserved by X" popup, but it'll be grayed out, so you can't override it, and you'll have to manually stop the pawn, then have the pawn you want do the task, then release the original pawn. Sometimes also with groups of items it simply will not allow you to click them, and it'll be because another pawn has reserved something in that group of items. The fix for this may be overly complicated, but I wanted to mention it.

- Doctors would still rather go to bed, eat, or goof off than take care of patients. Sometimes if there are multiple patients, they'll take care of one (generally if micro'd) then go goof off/sleep, leaving the others to wait in beds for care that's not coming.

- Related to the first, I wouldn't mind if there were some way to for patients to self-triage. I really don't want a pawn bed-ridden for literally a single bruise, which happens a lot.

That's all for now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 01:05:02 AM
Just FYI:

-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
-Smoothed walls not allowing wires is a bug

These are gonna get fixed, don't worry too much on them please.

Escape pod pawns can be factionless, but now there is a chance they'll have a faction. You can capture them, or send them home for a relations boost.

We're gonna review opportunistic hauling. We don't want them to do dumb and annoying things but we don't want them to miss too many opportunities either. Maybe we set it too safe.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 22, 2018, 01:06:02 AM
So is animal tab bugging out for yall? I'd post a screenshot but my wifi is crapshoot and my mobile is running on low enough data already.

so heres a shot from my phone: https://imgur.com/a/0E446Dp
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 01:21:25 AM
Just FYI:

-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
-Smoothed walls not allowing wires is a bug

These are gonna get fixed, don't worry too much on them please.

Escape pod pawns can be factionless, but now there is a chance they'll have a faction. You can capture them, or send them home for a relations boost.

We're gonna review opportunistic hauling. We don't want them to do dumb and annoying things but we don't want them to miss too many opportunities either. Maybe we set it too safe.

Sweet. I thought walls were working as intended. I'm back on board, then! Still think beauty should be balanced between constructed walls and smoothed, though; I'm still fine with no beauty, as the utility of not having to mine out the wall only to replace it with a constructed wall was the only reason I really liked RF's mod; The etching and carving parts were a 'nice to have' for later in the colony.

Thanks for clarification on the rest.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 01:26:32 AM
-Grenades being used in melee is a bug

Well thats a relief. Though allowing shooting point blank is still a massive nerf to already useless melee in this game. Its only viable for the AI hordes now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 01:48:23 AM
Another minor, but very annoying problem: Pawns armed with ranged weapons, sent into melee range and specifically told to melee attack, are still firing their weapons. As I often use all nearby colonists without melee weapons (and who are capable of violence) to beat a berserk pawn into submission, this is super, super annoying.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 01:51:26 AM
Another minor, but very annoying problem: Pawns armed with ranged weapons, sent into melee range and specifically told to melee attack, are still firing their weapons. As I often use all nearby colonists without melee weapons (and who are capable of violence) to beat a berserk pawn into submission, this is super, super annoying.

Yeah we're already planning to disable that.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 22, 2018, 01:52:35 AM
Just wanted to relate a story regarding the new faction relations system which I encountered that I thought might be important:

Caveat: I'm not sure if this is my own ignorance of game mechanics, or if this is something to look into.

Early Game - Captured 3 Hostile Tribals during a raid.  Released one intentionally to bring my faction relations with the Hostile tribe up to "0", which was successful. 2 remaining Tribals are now in my prison.

I was forced to move the 2 remaining (and still incapacitated) Tribal prisoners from one prison cell to another.  In doing so, I deleted their sleeping spots (which of course de-zoned the room as a "Prison Barracks", and then created two new sleeping spots ones in the new prison cell.  I was forced to re-capture them both to move them (drafted a colonist, who moved them to the new cell), and in doing so, my faction relationships plummeted.  The faction system counted both as a re-capture of neutrals, causing that faction to become far more hostile than they were originally.  I do not recall seeing any options for "rescue", which always appeared for friendlies who were downed/incap'd, and a non-prison hospital bed was available.

Again - if this is my own ignorance of how to move prisoners, please disregard (and I'd love it if someone could tell me how to do it properly);  however, this might be of interest to the Devs if it is an unintended consequence with no work-around while 1.0 is still being examined closely.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ardshael on June 22, 2018, 02:07:39 AM
OK, so I've played several hours now. Started with the initial build and updated as I went.

I like a lot of the changes. It's great to have quests and THANK YOU so much for revamping the caravan component. That was so incredibly frustrating before.

Here are some thoughts:

Food usage - Please add a section similar to drugs for food. If I can tell my colonists not to take specific drugs or when, it would be nice to do the same for food. I hate when my colonists eat the pemmican or survival meals that I'm saving for my caravans. If there was a setting to restrict all colonists from eating certain food types, that would be very helpful.

Transport Pods - These are annoying. It feels like how brutal it was to form caravans in the past. If you have colonists assigned to enter a pod, they will continue to load the pods until they are passed out exhausted. Even worse, if you have a group and a colonist enters the pod early while the other pod is being loaded then the loaded colonist will eventually starve. I almost had this happen where I was loading 60 tuques for a quest and a whole bunch of other items to trade. I ended up reloading.

The work around was to load one pod with all the items, then when it was ready, load 2 other pods with the essentials and the colonists. Launch the colonists first then then items. The problem with this is I can't drop onto another camp, I have to drop onto the tile beside it and walk in. I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say. Definitely needs a revamp.

It would be nice if more than one colonist could load a pod too. That would make it so much faster. However, I understand the ramifications from a coding perspective.

Mechanoids - I agree with others perspective that scythers (melee) are pretty easy to take down. And the big assed dudes are a little too difficult. I had 5 decent to good skilled shooters with excellent assault and sniper rifles barely denting the thing. (that was after the other 3 shotgun guys had to leave for medical reasons).

Allys - I would love to see quests sent by allies give more information than quests sent by neutrals. i.e. a neutral will just tell you there's an item stash. An ally might tell you if it's actually guarded. Also, it would be a nice addition that a caravan at an allied village would be given food so they don't need to consume their own rations.

Caravans - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a proper letter notification for a caravan arriving at a location. I can't tell you how many times a caravan arrives and I didn't see the small notification because something else was happening. If you do nothing else, this addition would make me happy.



Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: IndustryStandard on June 22, 2018, 02:32:47 AM
By any chance can we fix the bug/feature,

 If you build anything, before it's actually made and it's all highlighted, and you put another object on it, for example, you lay out the walls of your next base, and put the conduits in the walls and such.

 The colonists will only build the walls, and the conduits get cancelled. This applies to anything that seems to overlap when building. I definitely remember this not always being a thing.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 02:36:29 AM
Again - if this is my own ignorance of how to move prisoners, please disregard (and I'd love it if someone could tell me how to do it properly);  however, this might be of interest to the Devs if it is an unintended consequence with no work-around while 1.0 is still being examined closely.

I believe if you just leave them, your warden will move them to the newly zoned prison area. Unsure, but I think I recall this happening in the past.

If there was a setting to restrict all colonists from eating certain food types, that would be very helpful.

I usually just forbid anything I don't want colonists to touch, like drugs and long-term foods. If selected for a caravan, they will still load up the forbidden items.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 06:00:54 AM
New build going up. Lots more tasks over here to do, thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone!

Raw change log below.

------

Caravan BaseJoyGainPerHour 0.31 -> 0.35
Fix: Smoothed stone floors have no market value.
Condensed all the dependent RoomStats into a single worker class driven by a SimpleCurve in the def instead of using complex case-specific math. Adjusted a few numbers. Renamed defaultScore -> roomlessScore to be clearer.
Refactor cleanliness calculations into a SimpleCurve.
Reviewed heat generation from buildings game-wide. Made a new debug output to help analyze it. Some buildings produce heat that didn’t before (stoves, etc).
Multi-analyzer advanced component cost 2->1.
Fix: Various recipes have no work speed stat, and so work speed is unaffected by injury or traits. -Make chemfuel at organic bench. -Make stone blocks. -Burn drugs/apparel, cremate corpse. To fix, added a UnskilledProductionSpeed stat that is affected by health conditions only.
Reworked brewing speed into drug cooking speed, applied it to brewing, pekoe and smokeleaf. Smokeleaf making is no longer weirdly divorced from all health conditions. Renamed drug production speed to drug synthesis speed to distinguish it better from drug cooking. Reworked recipe skill debug output into a table.
Incendiary launcher can now target locations. Minigun can no longer target locations.
Reduced various infection chances (around 25%).
Watermill cost 340/20/1 -> 280 wood, 80 steel, 3 components.
Increase animal gestation times roughly 20% game-wide.
Adjusted some constructionSkillPrerequisites and UI icon draw sizes. Campfire no longer has a construction skill requirement. Short bow crafting skill requirement 3->2.
Saguaro cactus wood yield 10 -> 20.
Minor text fixes.
Added TranslationHandle attributes where appropriate. Translation handles are now sanitized properly.
Added translation report syntax suggestion for helpTexts.0. Moved some code from Pawn_RotationTracker to FaceTarget() so it can be reused by e.g. JobDriver_SitFacingBuilding which fixes some rotation issues.
Finished working on translation handles. Moved translation handles code to a separate file. Fixed some issues. Translation report now suggests using translation handles instead of raw indexes.
Fix 3451: Faction Kinship of Abetra of def TribeRough has no usable PawnGroupMakers
Added a sound that plays when the build script is finished.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 07:21:08 AM
I played several games so far, I'd say 25+ hours. I played only river maps.

WATER:

New water mechanics are really fun. But I would like there to be a visual feedback when somebody is wet. Possibly make their lower half darker, or make them drip water.

Something that seemed a little odd was that a river affected me the same in boreal forest when it was -17°C as in arid shrubland when it was 34°C. What I think would be really interesting and made the gameplay more engaging would be if the soaking wet debuff gave a debuff to cold resistance (perhaps even negate cold resistance of clothes).

To balance this, shallow water could inflict only "wet" debuff, that would be only half as wet, while deep water would inflict "soaking wet".

I think that this would make rivers even more interesting gameplay element in cold biomes.

Watermill generator seemed balanced cost-wise (340 wood at the time, catus 10 wood at the time) on arid shrublands map. A way to balance it better on maps with lot's of wood could possibly be making it a little bit bigger/harder to place.

ANIMALS:

I like the training changes, and that animals can have diseases. Makes them more precious. I managed to tame some herbivores, but had my skilled tamer mauled by bears several times (8% chance). I didn't even try to tame a warg 50% attack chance. I'm not sure if animal attack chance is affected by animal handling skill, but I guess I would like it to be. It would make it more rewarding having a high skilled animal tamer and more dangerous taming predators with less skilled pawns.

RAIDS/COMBAT:

(Cassandra extreme, no killboxes)
I had a lot of fun with the new event where raiders attack from different sides. Those battles felt like they rewarded me for strategy and tactics. Some of the most fun I had with combat.

I also like the split of scythers to lancers/scythers - makes for a more tactical combat, where melee is perfectly viable. Poison ship radius is a great change too.

A combat event that didn't feel that great - sieges. Seemed the only viable strategy is to attack them straight up? A had a weak colony, that wouldn't do very well in a straight up combat. Siege came and the text read 'or you can't try to wait them out'. I never tried that (716 hours of Rimworld says Steam), but they kept getting drop pods with more and more shells. Was this because it was extreme difficulty? If so, very well, all is good and ignore this point. If not - new players might feel betrayed on easier difficulties. I get that sieges are supposed to draw you out, but there should be an alternative - surviving the shelling (which is quite fun actually, so it would be a shame if the game forced you to 'go get them'). I realise that this isn't really a 1.0 feedback, but since the game is getting a official release...

I actually really like the new 'shot deflected' mechanics. But it doesn't feel great when bolt action rifle/greatbow/sniper rifle shots are deflected by regular clothes. Those major high impact shots not connecting in this way feels a little bit cheap.

Flak vest/Flak pants costing cloth can be a problem on some maps like boreal or tundra. I dont think it let me use leather. That can be frustrating especially when I was unlucky with traders.

OTHER:

I like the new skill level requirements, as well as slowdown of growing. Research feels better.

UI - in the assign tab, there are drop down menus for type of medical care a pawn is supposed to recieve and and type of response when attacked. I would personally prefer, if instead of a dropdown menu, there was a menu similar to the 'health tab' of a pawn (where you click either glitterworld med/normal med/herbal med/no med/no care). As I use the 'assign' tab to assign medicine, this would be less clicks. The downside is, that it would be less readable at a glance. But on the other hand, that could be compensated by making the currently selected option in a nice visible white box and the not selected choices greyed out.

......

Anyway, having a lot of fun with this 1.0. If I didn't mention something, it means I can't think of a way to improve it :).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 07:51:45 AM
New water mechanics are really fun. But I would like there to be a visual feedback when somebody is wet. Possibly make their lower half darker, or make them drip water.

I prefer soaking wet debuff be removed.   I expected for it to have some kind of benefits such as cool down pawns during heat wave if it's going to mess with moods. Also expected my pawns to get the same debuff in rain but that doesn't seem to happen.  Really have to create restricted areas against rivers  if it's something you don't want to deal with (I rather not) since a pawn isn't always going to choose a bridge, nor should they have to.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 08:48:39 AM
I prefer soaking wet debuff be removed.   I expected for it to have some kind of benefits such as cool down pawns during heat wave if it's going to mess with moods.

I have to say that I like it - it makes rivers more meaningful. It makes bridges meaningful. But it's really strange and counterintuitive that 'soaking wet' affects the player exactly the same way in freezing temperatures as well as scorching hot climates. If water actually cooled down pawns - which could be a benefit or a detriment, it would make rivers an actual part of the gameplay, not just a 'you can't build here and you shouldn't walk here' area.

Also I would love to see traits tied to water - aquaphile (+mood in water) and aquaphobe (straight up refuses to enter water, except when on fire), fast swimmer (+speed in water), hardy (doesn't mind being wet, being cold/being hot affects them less).

The thing is, I found out that now that rivers aren't just nuisance, I really like playing with them. The game mechanics of hot/cold are already part of the game, it would be a missed opportunity not to tie them to water too. Also If I was a new player, I would be scratching my head why crossing a creek in an arid shrubland is about as problematic as crossing a huge river in a tundra.

Even better - rivers already generate with shallow water fords (even the huge ones). At least all of the ones I had on my maps did. If it was less detrimental to cross through shallows than through deep water, it would add another layer of gameplay. Do I REALLY need the berries on the other side of the river? Can I afford to swim there in this temperature? Should I invest in researching bridges?

On two maps I had huge rivers with an ancient asphalt road. This now generates a bridge over the water (extremely cool feature btw) and I noticed that the pawn's AI prioritize the bridge, even when the angle of the bridge meant that they had to take a pretty considerable detour. So I'd say the pathfinding is pretty much up to the task of having rivers be more "interesting". Overall I was quite pleasantly surprised with how little my pawns entered water.

I guess I really fail to see the downside to this, as player can always choose to play on a map without a river.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: medzernik on June 22, 2018, 09:03:46 AM
New water mechanics are really fun. But I would like there to be a visual feedback when somebody is wet. Possibly make their lower half darker, or make them drip water.

I prefer soaking wet debuff be removed.   I expected for it to have some kind of benefits such as cool down pawns during heat wave if it's going to mess with moods. Also expected my pawns to get the same debuff in rain but that doesn't seem to happen.  Really have to create restricted areas against rivers  if it's something you don't want to deal with (I rather not) since a pawn isn't always going to choose a bridge, nor should they have to.

I second that idea of being cooled down in hot biomes and chilled in snow biomes
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:03:59 AM
I just got a sappers raid and it was... frustrating.

First of all direct power of that raid was much higher than my colony could beat in fair fight. I have 11 tribal fighters with rifles (3 more brawlers are off the map with caravan), 4 trained dogs and 3 stolen mortars; enemy have 26 people with doomsday and rocket launchers, power armors, shielded brawlers and better weapons in general. I had like 30 savescum attempts and 95% of them ended with my total loss. One time I won just because raiders nuked themselves with doomsday launcher and it was easy to beat them after that with minimal loses (only like 80% of my people downed, 1 dead and 30% of base destroyed); another "win" was with also some extreme luck, but most of my base burned and most people died. I understand that Randy Intense should provide such experience, but it feels too much even for him. I even suspect that something is off with how game sees my success in this game because after that raid I got 21 manhunting megaslots (when all of my base is "outdoors" w/o walls and my people still healing in beds) and also that sapper raid was not just "randomly stronger" - I reloaded out of just the same type of raid just couple of days before all of this...

But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?

Also frustrating thing: priority for repairing damaged things above building new things by construction pawns. Yeah: my base has no tables, no cooking stove, no beds, no doors, but my pawn prefers to repair countless damaged walls above that. Cracks in walls are not an emergency!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 09:21:11 AM
Thanks for the note Mihsan, very useful. Just as info, you can remove the home zone from an area and pawns won't repair there any more.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 09:25:39 AM

I guess I really fail to see the downside to this, as player can always choose to play on a map without a river.
Because I'd like to play on maps with rivers, and maybe add some mods which add huge rivers or lakes.

I get where you're coming from in your post.  For me, it's just one of those things that needs quite a bit of work to be added and logical.  Things like visually showing that they got soaking wet is unlikely to be implemented.  Just kind of feel like it'll be a popular opinion once the dust settles and if no changes were made to it.  Be cool to see some traits for it though!

-10 for 6 hours is too much for something that is out of my control.  Haven't played too much of 1.0 but already had issues with them choosing water over bridge.  Remember, there are other things at hand like psychic drone and stuff taking big mood hits, all of it stacks up.  For now, it feels like a cheap hit, especially when you come across something like shallow water in a cave or elsewhere on map.

(https://i.imgur.com/jVonyK4.png)

In my experience, the rivers are a bit puny in several maps generated so far.  Maybe just having bad luck there. So when they do cross the puny river it was never worth the mood hit.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tass237 on June 22, 2018, 09:44:00 AM
A combat event that didn't feel that great - sieges. Seemed the only viable strategy is to attack them straight up? A had a weak colony, that wouldn't do very well in a straight up combat. Siege came and the text read 'or you can't try to wait them out'. I never tried that (716 hours of Rimworld says Steam), but they kept getting drop pods with more and more shells. Was this because it was extreme difficulty? If so, very well, all is good and ignore this point. If not - new players might feel betrayed on easier difficulties. I get that sieges are supposed to draw you out, but there should be an alternative - surviving the shelling (which is quite fun actually, so it would be a shame if the game forced you to 'go get them').

Admittedly, this experience is from back in A17, but I had a "Some Difficulty" Cassandra run in which I just let a Siege shell me for a while, (I didn't have adequate ranged weapons to assault, but did have turrets) and I was able to reasonably keep up with putting out fires and repairing damaged stuff. I just had to restrict pawns to stay under roof as I would during Toxic Fallout, and I did receive some injuries, but the siegers eventually attacked without taking what I felt to be an unreasonably long time, and I was able to fend them off with my turret defenses. My base had to go without power for a while when they took out my solar panels, but it wasn't devastating.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 09:51:13 AM
-10 for 6 hours is too much for something that is out of my control.  Haven't played too much of 1.0 but already had issues with them choosing water over bridge.  ater in a cave or elsewhere on map.

I agree that having -10 for 6 hours doesn't make sense in many cases. That's why I suggested having shallow water inflict a mild 'wet' debuff and deep water inflict the serious 'soaking wet' debuff.

Another solution that comes to mind is having a time offset, where upon entering water (even better, shallow water), the pawn wouldn't become wet if they exited within X amount of seconds. In theory, this would filter out all the cases of 'stepped in a puddle while hauling wood' or 'clipped shallow water when stepping on a bridge'.

Overall I agree that at the moment, the debuff can feel too punishing in many cases. Doesn't make much sense for pawns that swam across a lake to have the same debuff as those who stepped into a puddle.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:54:47 AM
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.

Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ZE on June 22, 2018, 10:06:56 AM
i too feel a bit about the deflection and wet

clothing should have both deflection and damage mitigation as 2 separate things
a shirt has 0 deflection unless made out of somethin special, and poor damage reduction
a flak vest might have 10% deflection, but more damage reduciton
a shiny chest plate might have 50% deflection but average damage reduction

shallow water - wet
chest-deep water - soaked
deep water - drenched

drenched - lowers personal temp by 10 fades to ;
soaked - lowers personal temp by 6, fades to ;
wet - lowers personal temp by 4

shade also lowers personal temp by 6
and wind multiplies these by up to 200%, so a pawn can seek cooler temp in shade and in water, and the breeze too can lower your temp, so extreme desert survival can be possible but also ice sheet survival can be even harder
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 10:10:09 AM
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.

Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.

I don't think that sieges are too powerful in general, I just think that having a first siege fire 46+ projectiles is a little too much. Maybe if the number of drops they recieve with extra projectiles scaled with colony wealth, it would make for a better experience. Yeah, this isn't a 1.0 thing per se, but it's something that affected my playthrough so I figgured I'd mention it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 10:20:12 AM
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.

Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.

For tribal starts I consider a siege inside 1st game year to be the single most threatening raid type on extreme.  You're outnumbered, outgunned, and if raiders haven't turned up with a sniper yet, you have no realistic way to lift the siege without exposing multiple pawns to death on biomes that aren't animal-friendly.

Sappers certainly force altered base designs and are one of the hardest counters to dedicated kill areas.  I don't think their actions are a problem, though yes on high difficulties you're going to need a setup that lets you isolate some of them at a time for shooting if you don't have your own triple rockets or ally call-ins.

Mechanoids are awful.  Centipedes sponge for days.  In the game sense, literally.  Yes, I can kite them.  I was able to constantly hit one w/o taking damage yesterday...I had to send pawns back to back to eat and sleep because constant gunfire from a few of them couldn't kill it and I was in mental break risk.  It absorbed over half of the > 100 11 damage hits I put on it (not counting missed shots).  This is the only enemy type that I can't find a reliable way to kill quickly.  Maybe one exists but I haven't seen any evidence.  Once their numbers go up, you can't catch them all in EMP.  How is the new armor interacting with explosives?  Maybe that's a path worth attempting.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 10:24:59 AM
If it is a bug or intentional I also created the siege guys to raid before building their mortar by attacking them before hand. I think the fire destroyed the building mortar and caused it. Either way I predicted that corner would get drop ships/siegers so I already had a defense bunker set up there and they wouldn't of been firing at my base.

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.

I haven't gotten sappers yet but I can't wait to see what that is like. My base is kinda built like attack on titan. Many layers and fall back spots and all in stone. I hold open doors between raids so pawns don't get slowed down. I'm up to 8 colonist now and my wealth should attract them very shortly I bet.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 10:51:49 AM
A trick question: if crossing river causes "wet" debuff - then why rain does not do the same?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 22, 2018, 11:07:08 AM
"A trick question: if crossing river causes "wet" debuff - then why rain does not do the same?"

Is it really needed to make it more unpleasant? Game should be fun, next thing you know we'll be crafting umbrellas and then toilet paper, more doesn't mean better ;o

Q: Did anyone have trouble with scrolling speed being too fast?

btw, old Silver graphic was more climatic and rimworldish, than the new one. Why work on something that was perfect?
New wind turbine looks worse. idk why work on graphics which where a great fit and perfect as they were.

Animals becoming wild? Why is there need for so much repetition.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 11:13:46 AM

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.


Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea.  Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision.  A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers.  Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map.  Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 11:28:48 AM

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.


Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea.  Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision.  A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers.  Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map.  Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol

Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.

The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 11:50:04 AM

Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.

The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.

It's not easily avoided, and it's a strange debuff as is. That's my complaint.  Animals cross rivers more often than you think. Two hares crossed the river together right before I made that last post. They weren't fleeing or anything like that, they were middle of map open field.  Here's a snippet of a squirrel crossing at the bottom right after I read your post. Not sure why video came out that way but oh well. Hunters already deal with raiders entering edge of map, predators etc.

https://youtu.be/14CM-zOmGHU 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 22, 2018, 11:57:39 AM
I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 22, 2018, 12:29:55 PM
Regarding the decision to make items decay when outside but still under a roof, I feel that this may have been implemented hastily. Please see this image for details. The survival meal on the right is fine, despite being in a 3x3 enclosure with doors held open, but the survival meal on the left is decaying, despite 9 tiles between it and the outside.

(https://i.imgur.com/6bCwyrt.png)

I would like to suggest that it be changed to if an item is within 2 tiles of the outside, decay is possible. Closed door? Fine. Held open door? Better have 2 tiles of roof extending or it will decay anyway. Single wall pillar with 5 tiles of roof on each side? Items within 2 tiles of the edge can decay.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 12:34:36 PM
I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.

I don't see it as digital suffer. I see it just like playing a game of chess. A fun series of calculated decisions that if I get wrong I can and will loose. But I find no joy in winning when I know I never had a chance for loss.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Wanderer_joins on June 22, 2018, 12:35:26 PM
Quote
I just got a sappers raid and it was... frustrating.

First of all direct power of that raid was much higher than my colony could beat in fair fight. I have 11 tribal fighters with rifles (3 more brawlers are off the map with caravan), 4 trained dogs and 3 stolen mortars; enemy have 26 people with doomsday and rocket launchers, power armors, shielded brawlers and better weapons in general.

That's weird. I'm playing Cass extreme, year 3, wealth ~150k, have 12 colonists, last raid was outlander sappers, they were 25 (https://imgur.com/sVfa71f) and at that point i'm starting to have clearly better gears and bionic parts than the raiders. What is harder in 1.0 is somtimes they fight to death instead of fleeing, it ended up as an epic battle over the bedroom. I kind of like these new strategies. Fleeing raiders are rather harmless, unless some mods like run and gun give them a minimal defense.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 01:01:45 PM
The survival meal on the right is fine, despite being in a 3x3 enclosure with doors held open, but the survival meal on the left is decaying, despite 9 tiles between it and the outside.

It is exactly how it work for temperature calculation for inside/outside. Alternative would be to create complex system(s) which would calculate a lot of things all over the map and that is not a good option too.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 22, 2018, 01:18:51 PM

But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?


What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 22, 2018, 01:19:17 PM
Why not leave it simple - under roof = not decaying.

I don't like some of those changes, I feel they are overcomplicating on what rimworld is amazing. Simplicity wins and makes the game enjoyable.

Sure mods will come, but do you really need it in this game? Just like animals getting wild again, why do we need this constant repetition.

You could make walls crumble over time - so they need constant repairs, floors too, tables too. Plants would need to be watered and fertizilzed and ... too much =]
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 01:33:24 PM
I don't really mind decay happening when items are outside that much, but I ve got to admit - having it simple - if the roof exists over item - it doesn't decay, was much more convenient. It forces me to construct ugly initial sheds to store stuff and that fact irks me a bit.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 01:35:59 PM
He explained the animal one. It was to nerf the strategy to just build 100 animals and just kill all raiders with them. You can still do this with that feature installed but you will need to devote resources to keeping those animals loyal with multiple trainers. I find this reasonable because tbh accidently I'd have 100+ animals if I didn't pay attention. I'd set  a zone for all the animals I didn't want to be In the raiders path for a quick disposal method but the damage they were able to do as just throw away was insane.

Balancing that relieves the thought in your head, "If only I exploited animals that playthrough I wouldn't have lost". Which lets you come up with new fun strategies on how to play.

I don't see any reason for the roof decay thing. It is awkward but personally I don't notice it =\
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: klun on June 22, 2018, 01:44:28 PM
the animal part needs a better function than just re trained them- thats just a chore - either made them with traits and perhaps some kind of worn off debuff after a couple of fights in a way that they cant group up fight after fight

Or cap the size of how many animals can you run as an army, the other one could be if the animal pack go beyond certain size or the pack has too different species just made them attack each other randomly or even the master
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 01:46:36 PM

But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?


What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.

I don't like the internal inconsistency.  IMO "mining" should not beat out explosives to break a fortification, and it's awkward that AI raiders can do things like "mine walls" and "ignite" while player pawns have no such option.

Even making AI raiders fire into the walls would be a bit more genuine of a representation, if they can manage not to hit each other.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 22, 2018, 01:50:44 PM
Don't know if it's bug or feature - animals dying to toxic fallout (or having serious/extreme ~9x% and getting shot) are immediately 'Rotting' (their corpses don't have 'fresh' state)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 01:56:02 PM
My guess its another "make life harsher" thingy 1.0 brought upon us. Though i can't really argue with it - eating animals that died from toxic overdose can't be healthy in any way.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 01:58:48 PM
Even with buildup, they are immediately rot.  I had a cougar charge through a corridor into an otherwise walled in base to "hunt" a colonist (of course without notification, in contrast to every other potentially pawn killing event in the game).  Since it was visible I reacted and killed it, but even though it was running straight at me until the moment it died it was immediately rotted.

It'd be nice to have some notification for when toxic buildup gets to minor or something so I don't have to constantly manually check individual pawns to see if it's time to re-zone.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: einie on June 22, 2018, 02:04:04 PM
The color pallet for factions seems to be awfully "close".  Ex. Purple & "slightly browner" purple one friendly the other not.  Yellow (friendly) and "a little whiter yellow".  This makes finding an initial location tough!
The wildlife tab is nice, but not really necessary.  It would be handier to have  a clothing (and weapons?) inventory so I can avoid tattered clothing with some efficiency. :)

Thanks
PS - Love the game - best I have found in the last 2 or 3 years. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 02:05:47 PM
Still its better than getting a ninja fix that makes people who ate the meat from animals with any kind of toxic buildup severity sick, for example. I wouldn't even be whining if that was so - its kinda common sense to not eat toxic stuff.

That does make toxic fallout, one of the most annoying events in RW ever even more annoying. If you don't have indoor growzones or a fat food storage by the time it happens - you're kind of doomed. Or you also could just ditch the map for a quadrum or two.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 02:09:07 PM
The color pallet for factions seems to be awfully "close".  Ex. Purple & "slightly browner" purple one friendly the other not.

Check to make sure you're on the latest push. This was definitely fixed in my current colony, even though it was started before the fix. One faction was a dark, vibrant blue, another was a lime green. Very distinct.

Also noticed the fallout thing; Though it seems maybe they're okay if you slaughter them? I 'rescued' a few camels and slaughtered them just fine, but one of them did insta-rot. It's possible that one died of fallout before I could slaughter, though.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Crow_T on June 22, 2018, 02:17:24 PM
concerning animal training, I noticed that the pet you start with needs to be trained to keep the obedience they start with up, that kind of sucked in the colony beginning when I am scraping for food. The solution for me is to not start off with animals, but maybe a more clever in game one could work out better.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zombull on June 22, 2018, 02:25:09 PM
I'm sure this was already reported, but...

Pawns deconstructing smoothed walls will stop and start repairing them instead.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 22, 2018, 02:26:18 PM
Still its better than getting a ninja fix that makes people who ate the meat from animals with any kind of toxic buildup severity sick, for example. I wouldn't even be whining if that was so - its kinda common sense to not eat toxic stuff.

That does make toxic fallout, one of the most annoying events in RW ever even more annoying. If you don't have indoor growzones or a fat food storage by the time it happens - you're kind of doomed. Or you also could just ditch the map for a quadrum or two.

To be honest i like this solution. Animals that are < 'Moderate', are normally having 'fresh' status, so clearing map early of animals can give You some food stockpile, same with wandering animals.

Another question : why infection killed my colonist before it reached 100% ? Colonist had 'Extreme' 87% (ok he would die since he had immunity  82% but still i had hope...)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 02:29:27 PM
Was he otherwise healthy? My guess is something else was affecting said infected colonist, lowering his consciousness or something. Infection going extreme lowered it even more, below the death treshold and it killed him. Happens also with some drugs too.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 22, 2018, 02:55:54 PM
This ->  "thats just a chore"

Don't make ppl play the game how you want it to be played. There is a reason mods exist that change basic functions. I see no problem with 100 animals, if you can keep them fed. That is called 'late game', and it will always be present. You finally get to the better guns, better resource management.

If ppl want it to be that hard, why not make only one weapon available - a bow. This will make the game harder surely. But it will miss the point, that eventually you will get to a more comfortable position against raids and such. I see no problem with having 100 animals for dealing with raids. Most of them would die anyway.

This isn't a story generator, this is a colony simulator, even if someone would want it to be different. And still, there is no story in doing repetitive chores. This is the moment to listen to feedback, mods will remove it (would be geat if game allowed more customization in itself), maybe next update will remove it just like the Tornado - some ppl liked it, but there was no point in it.

Fun, not chore.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 22, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
I just noticed: chat and recruit got significantly creepier with the 1.0 update. So far, my colonist has tried to recruit a tribal by... (not all at once)
-talking about his sexual prowess
-asking about her pubic hair
-promising love
-discussing his genitals
-and encouraging Bat to talk about 'lovin.

When did my colonist become such a skeeve-ball? Is it because they're the same age and compatible genders, or because he has Creepy Breathing?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 22, 2018, 03:00:19 PM
Was he otherwise healthy? My guess is something else was affecting said infected colonist, lowering his consciousness or something. Infection going extreme lowered it even more, below the death treshold and it killed him. Happens also with some drugs too.
He had some patched wounds/cracks/bruises and another infection on 'Major' with +10% immunity over infection.

Afaik when pawns die due to drugs it's caused by overdose roll and not because consciousness going below 0 (dont know if it's possible)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 03:02:25 PM
Consciousness at 0 will kill them.  Reddit has plenty of threads where a weakened pawn smoked a joint, resulting it being the last thing the pawn did.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:06:20 PM
Exactly. Overdose doesn't kill them, it only has a chance to cause chemical damage to the brain or liver, based on drugs used. Consciousness and most other parameters below certain treshold (i think 10%?) kills an otherwise healthy pawn.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 03:12:24 PM
I think you need literally 0 to die.  Also only vital parts reaching 0 kill.  If pawn's "head efficiency" hits 0, pawn dies.  If pawn's "shoulder efficiency" hits 0, the arm isn't usable can recover if otherwise possible and the pawn will live.

Same goes if one lung hits 0% but not the other (pawn will survive this if the other lung works), while liver or heart hitting 0% is instant death.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
Another question : why infection killed my colonist before it reached 100% ? Colonist had 'Extreme' 87% (ok he would die since he had immunity  82% but still i had hope...)

I am no the only one? Here is my bug report:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.0
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:27:21 PM
Yeah you're not the only one, because its not a bug. Combination of blood loss, infection and maybe other stuff like pain, malnutrition, brain damage, drug use, other diseases can really easily lower pawn's vital stats below death treshold. At that point it doesn't matter even if he had already maxed immunity.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:29:21 PM
Yeah you're not the only one, because its not a bug. Combination of blood loss, infection and maybe other stuff like pain, brain damage, drug use, other diseases can really easily lower pawn's vital stats below death treshold. At that point it doesn't matter even if he had already maxed immunity.
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 22, 2018, 03:33:13 PM
Here I am again with rather lengthy notes, but first I would to counter some of other people's arguments:

Now that's out of the way, here is a list of minor stuff I've found:

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:33:55 PM
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.

Are you sure not a single of those stats is below 10%? And no diseases\infections hit 100%? No vital organs badly damaged or something? If so - then yeah, its a bug alright. In that case you should post a screen or a vid in bugs thread, maybe also post your save for devs to take a look at.

snip

If something feels minor or doesn't annoy you personally, that doesn't neccessary make it true for everyone else. And i also don't think its right to go assuming people here didn't even try playing, before coming here just to complain. RW offers really different experiences based on both difficulty and person's playstyle.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 22, 2018, 03:36:01 PM
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Is it though, you'd need to review the save and pawn conditions just before he died, what exactly did he die of?
It could just be that he reached 0 healthy (maybe its conscious, the first bar down left). And from what it seems, if he had two infections, he was in a pretty bad shape.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:43:53 PM
Is it though, you'd need to review the save and pawn conditions just before he died, what exactly did he die of?
It could just be that he reached 0 healthy (maybe its conscious, the first bar down left). And from what it seems, if he had two infections, he was in a pretty bad shape.
Are you sure not a single of those stats is below 10%? And no diseases\infections hit 100%? No vital organs badly damaged or something? If so - then yeah, its a bug alright. In that case you should post a screen or a vid in bugs thread, maybe also post your save for devs to take a look at.
I literally put a link of my bug report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.0 . All information is there.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 03:47:06 PM
Quote
Second, I don't get why people play on the worse difficulties and then come complaining about it being unfair, wtf did you expect? Its meant to be unfair...The game offers a good enough range of difficulties and storytelling, stop choosing one to scratch your ego and pick the one you want to play at.

"Challenge/difficulty" and "unfair" are distinct concepts.  It has already been pointed out that lack of agency = skill equalization of outcome, quoted paragraph is disingenuous.  If perfect prep/execution doesn't solve an encounter, the encounter is not "difficult".  It's anti-gameplay and should be removed for the same reason meteors falling on people and killing them was removed.

Speaking of vents, where are they?  I looked under temperature and there was no option to build vents.  I had steel.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PhantomFav on June 22, 2018, 04:15:47 PM
Honestly, I have found the "Forageability" and the "Forageability Rate" pretty pointless. When food is over, berries (100%) sustain the caravan for only few hours, meanwhile agave fruit (25%) is so slow to increase, that doesn't affect the durability of a caravan in any way. I think this part need a rebalance. In any case, you can't administer this scarse resources, for the the most needy pawns.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 22, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
I just noticed: chat and recruit got significantly creepier with the 1.0 update. So far, my colonist has tried to recruit a tribal by... (not all at once)
-talking about his sexual prowess
-asking about her pubic hair
-promising love
-discussing his genitals
-and encouraging Bat to talk about 'lovin.

When did my colonist become such a skeeve-ball? Is it because they're the same age and compatible genders, or because he has Creepy Breathing?

Lol! It would be funny if the creepy breathing trait influenced what the pawn said. Although not as creepy, I had a male colonist with Tunneler and Nimble behave as though he was Abrasive. Was pretty annoying to have him harass and insult the other two female colonists that I had. He was negative social with my female pawn but he kept trying to romance her by "playfully" making fun of her in some way or another and she wasn't having it. It would be ideal if romance attempts were tweaked a bit more, imo. Such as if the pawns are negative social at that time, no romance attempt will be made at all until their social is increased to a certain amount first. I definitely miss Psychology mod in 1.0.  :P

On a side note, just lost a colony in Phoebe rough (permadeath naked brutality) due to "random" events that didn't feel so random. Had about several days left in fall but it was already negative degrees outside. The pack of alphabeavers that came through completely devastated what little trees I had left on the map (tundra). I couldn't really kill them with my pawns before they ate all the trees because my pawns were pretty much naked and caught hypothermia pretty quickly. Keeping an eye on my remaining wood supply, I kept the campfire running for warmth while I scrambled to research solar panels. Was able to build the solar panels and heaters just as my campfire dies, I breathe a sigh of relief. I think to myself that I'm going to be okay. Suddenly, eclipse. My best hunter, Aster, catches frostbite to her fourth toe or something like that and quickly loses it before my other colonist, Jasper, can tend to her. My third colonist, Bella, was out fulfilling a trade request caravan (they wanted two dusters for masterwork flak pants and an excellent gun :D) got food poisoning (thanks, berries!) about a day and a half away. She manages to survive the food poisoning but is malnourished. I keep an eye on her and she almost makes it back to the colony. Her caravan was literally touching the home tile when she falls due to malnutrition. I send Jasper to help Bella because he was somewhat healthy and wasn't missing any body parts, yet. Bella dies as Jasper carries her back to their frozen home. I said goodbye to Snowflake, my polar bear before exiting the game and shaking my head at disbelief.

I was only able to tame and somewhat begin training one polar bear before my game ended. I don't mind that the animals now lose training over time, but I feel as though it's a bit excessive at the moment. I don't know if the animals lose training by failed training attempts or only if the handler isn't able to train an animal for a day but I was at 2/3 Obedience training on Snowflake and she ended up going back to 0/3. Training success was between 27-30% but I failed to train her daily for about 5-6 days straight, sometimes training her twice per day. I think I missed her training one day when her handler was incapacitated from being attacked by a hungry warg. I feel like I lost those two obedience points way too quickly on an animal that's already a bit harder to tame and train, although I don't quite fully understand the new training mechanics.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Diana Winters on June 22, 2018, 05:11:08 PM
I'm liking 1.0 so far, but there are a few things relating to rivers I am concerned with

1. Getting wet in freezing cold temperatures aren't taken into account for
2. Pawns won't swim for recreation
3. Sometimes thick roofed mountains/hills spawn over rivers and will immediately collapse upon map generation (see attachment)

While #3 isn't a huge issue, it does look funny, especially since if you break any of the collapsed rocks, there will just be water under them. (Note: this was generated on a "flat" map)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Rockchecker on June 22, 2018, 05:13:28 PM
I'm fairly early on in my first playthrough of 1.0. I picked a random starting location, which has a creek running diagonally pretty much straight through the middle of the entire map. I have noticed many times that a colonist will decide to go for a walk... straight into the creek, for a -10 "soaking wet" debuff!

If a colonist is going on a walk for fun, why would they walk into the creek? Could the pathing be adjusted so they don't do this?

On a related note, colonists seem to take a LOT more joy breaks now than they did before. I have four colonists, and only one or two are generally working at a time. Maybe this changes as you get further into the game? But right now the overall colonist mood seems pretty low, even though I didn't take any colonists with traits affecting mood.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 05:20:38 PM
Yeah maybe I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to be any counterplay to a lot of joy tolerance building --> less joy from doing activities --> constantly lower moods than previously.  As a result mood was heavily nerfed in 1.0, not sure if that's intentional or not though.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 22, 2018, 05:36:14 PM
Fortunately, it looks like I just hit a run of bad luck regarding skeeviness. Recently, the most offensive thing my colonist has done is offer Bat free, fresh pumpkins despite the fact that:
1. It's currently the dead of winter on the tundra.
2.Pumpkins aren't in the game!

He's also talked to her about training Hippopotomuss, which I don't think are in the game yet. Shame on you, Dargaron!

Since Tynan asked us to report on the raid difficulty as the game progresses: I'm doing a Rich Explorer run, with all of the "free colonist" events turned off. Difficult is Rough, storyteller is Cassandra Clasisic.

The first year, the largest raid was two penitents, wich was a good thing, since my dude was stuck in an 8-by-6 Marble room w/ a heater, and my wealth gain was basically nil for that year. Once I had a wall up and running and started accumulating stuff, the raids started to pick up. By winter of 5502, still with one colonist (plus the unfortunate Bat, who still won't join me in my conquest of the galaxy), I'm getting raids of 6 or so people with crappy gear (although getting hit by a bunch of Machine Pistol bullets still hurts).

It's nice that raiders and visitors will bandage themselves now: I'm noticing a drop in the number of caravan members that I have to patch up after they get mauled by a vicious, vicious Arctic Fox.

Haven't done much with animal handling: I had a Husky show up earlier in 5502, and he's been nice and cuddly, but I haven't managed to train him yet. It's something of a race to see which comes first: Xerox trained to haul, or Bat getting recruited by Mr. Creepy Breathing.

Probably the biggest hurdle with this setup is the change to tree sowing: Normally by this point I'd have a bunch of Oak Trees ready to harvest, but that's not in the cards. I've had Alphabeavers thrice so far, and it's not like there are many trees on the Tundra to start with. So, it's been stone beds and steel workbenches for everyone!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 22, 2018, 05:47:42 PM
Recreation (joy) definitely plays a bigger role in 1.0 than in B18. I remember being able to set 2-3 hours, usually before bed for specific "joy" time for each colonist and they were fine. Now they seem to require at least 4-5 hours of recreation. I set recreation time a couple of hours before bed and after they wake up. Imo, I don't mind the changes. It makes sense that the colonists require to take several breaks throughout or an extended period if they're constantly working 10+ hours per day.  :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Vintorez on June 22, 2018, 05:56:32 PM
I like that Prostophile, now transhumanist, can now be satisfied with non-bionic parts, but I think something like a peg leg isn't exactly what a transhumanist would consider an upgrade to their body. It'd make more sense for different parts to have different degrees of affect on the mood effect. A wooden foot/peg leg could reduce/neutralize the negative effects but would require prosthetic or better to gain a positive buff. Could also be something like a wooden limb counts as 1 body part, prosthetic counts as 2, and bionic as 3 or 4. Values and descriptions would need to be adjusted of course.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 06:08:45 PM
Just did a trade caravan mission with 1 person and got ambushed. It was 1 person with weapon wealth equal to what I am seeing in raids. Caravans are definitely on the right track to being a much more worth it part of the game to explore. I do think prison breaks should offer more information though. They are assumed to always have way to high of a risk with out having any idea of the reward.  If it was a research tech to send out a spy on a caravan mission to give us any type of information then it might be worth it.

Edit: He is still on his way home got hit with a manhunter pack of 1 elk. Interesting events. Seems like trade missions are probably best with two people one of them being a doctor.

To the previous comments about sappers. I got my first sapper raid it was about 20-25 people. I had 7 colonist all in plated armor and basic weapons. They spawned on both sides of the map. But my multi layer defense basically just turned it into a shotgun brawl between doors of my base after I picked off like 8 of them from outside. They didn't retreat requiring me to kill all of them which was really fun. Basically everyone got injured but only 1 person downed by end of the fight  since it kept becoming 3 vs 1s in bedrooms kinda fights.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jaredmatt200 on June 22, 2018, 07:22:41 PM
How do you exactly get the unstable version if you bought through the website and not through steam?????
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bozobub on June 22, 2018, 09:14:06 PM
Register the game with Steam.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: YoruOokami on June 22, 2018, 09:37:28 PM
Small QoL feature suggestion, a button to remove all priorities in the work tab.

It would be useful when you're setting up all of your priorities in a new game by giving you a blank slate to work from, rather then a mess of auto-set priorities.
Could also include the ability for specific pawns priorities to be cleared (A button at the start/end of their line in the table?) which would help with pawns added mid-game or if you want to re-do one pawns priorities but not any others.

Thanks Tynan and the rest of the dev's for the awesome releases so far!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 22, 2018, 10:19:39 PM
The enemy weapon display bar is nice but misses the total count, in this particular scenario, there were 3 to 4 guys with a revolver so a counter like: Revolver x4 would definitely polish the new feature.

(https://i.imgur.com/hl6qTTh.png)

Next:

A long standing problem, we need an AI patch that prioritizes "Rest" over feeding when a pawn is wounded so that this doesn't happen anymore:

(https://i.imgur.com/4iFtyRv.png)

Currently it can be solved by just moving the pawn away and only then undrafting, but its an unnatural move under an attack behavior. Also since Doctors can also feed patients, eating can be left for later. We all had experienced so far that heavy wounded characters would go bleeding all over the colony and dinning room in order to eat first and then care about their lives... A new patch will certainly increase the workload of Doctors but it would be more reasonable and logic to me.

Pathing still continues to be a problem. How hard would it be to include a heat map that tells the AI Pathing where the bullets are coming from? So that pawns would avoid that "map sector", so as to not "think" it's walk in the park time? I mean...we do have the "Battle music on"...so why not some altered behavior during these times?

(https://i.imgur.com/Nr6rq6v.png)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Diana Winters on June 22, 2018, 11:10:25 PM
The new armor system seems to punish using hard hitting/slow fire rate weapons, where weapons that fire a ton of projectiles can at least get a hit in per burst instead of having the one shot fired (from something like a sniper) be deflected.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 11:26:18 PM
Its quite refreshing, to have armor actually protect you from sniper rifle oneshots for a change. I quite like it. Also makes you choose your target for a sniper pawn more carefully, since there s a decent chance of a block and cooldown on it is long.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zoolder on June 22, 2018, 11:44:21 PM
The new armor system seems to punish using hard hitting/slow fire rate weapons, where weapons that fire a ton of projectiles can at least get a hit in per burst instead of having the one shot fired (from something like a sniper) be deflected.

Very much this, it's the old Warhammer issue. I really think damage reduction was the way to go, there can still be random deflects, just more rare or maybe make penetration a different stat entirely to add another layer of weapon variety. High pen weapons could also be more likely to damage organs?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Trblz42 on June 22, 2018, 11:54:40 PM
A couple of findings in my last play through - first 2 years Randy Rough:


the following could just be Randy Random (my last game was alpha 16 releases)

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 23, 2018, 12:37:21 AM
Honestly, I have found the "Forageability" and the "Forageability Rate" pretty pointless. When food is over, berries (100%) sustain the caravan for only few hours, meanwhile agave fruit (25%) is so slow to increase, that doesn't affect the durability of a caravan in any way. I think this part need a rebalance. In any case, you can't administer this scarse resources, for the the most needy pawns.

I've found it to be useful, personally. I sent a guy out, literally did not have enough food to get there, and all of the stops along the way were hostile. I should have planned it better, but I was honestly curious how foraging would work out. It actually worked out very well, for me. He ran out of food half-way through; The kibble I sent was literally the only long-term food I had, and it ended up giving him food poisoning. Between the food poisoning and him toking through the smokeleaf joints I sent as a trade good he was mostly immobile for a day or so, but with a few judicious pauses to utilize the double-forage, his malnutrition never went above the lowest grade, and often dipped down into fine; He made a 4-day trip while starting out with only 2 days of food. His foraging rate was only middlin', but I was fortunate that most of the trip was through 100% foraging territory.

I wouldn't mind if it were kicked up a bit, but overall, I found it to be very useful, and an additionally worthwhile reason to allow all of my pawns to sow and harvest, despite the loss of food in the short term due to a failed harvest, just as a way to build growing skill.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 23, 2018, 02:31:10 AM
Is tending/infections still being worked on?
Tending quality is all over the place or so it seems. I can get like 40% and 0% tend quality without using meds.  Sometimes I get very low quality tending with herbs around 5% even though there's no health problems with my doctor.

Had a pawn get a dogbite, no other health problems. Treated her very shortly afterwards with herbals and clean room.  Stayed in bed the whole time and tend her with herbs instantly when needed.  Yet she died from infection.  Infection beat immunity around 12%. Something funky going on there.

Also my doctor with passion doesn't get a mood bonus while tending.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 03:06:29 AM

But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?


What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.

I don't like the internal inconsistency.  IMO "mining" should not beat out explosives to break a fortification, and it's awkward that AI raiders can do things like "mine walls" and "ignite" while player pawns have no such option.

Even making AI raiders fire into the walls would be a bit more genuine of a representation, if they can manage not to hit each other.

Igniting is an old thing and no one has complained about it, otherwise successful raid attacks would end up with only some buildings being destroyed, which looks lame. There must be a fire. Although you might be right there - raiders shouldn't ignite without Molotov or incendiary launchers.

Mining walls is a new thing. In previous versions, stone walls required more time to be destroyed than natural stone which was mined, unless they used grenades. Now, sappers mine walls instead of carrying frag grenades. It seems that devs thought grenades was too common from loot when they were supposed to be an exotic item which shouldn't be obtained that easily. Also, imagine the destruction they caused with those grenades. Now, it's been nerfed for the cost of walls, which are being "mined".

I've tested a sapper raid. The sapper had mining lvl4 and he mined wood wall within a couple of seconds with 2 hits. A single granite wall took approximately half a minute. But that's the role of a sapper - to get into the colony. Walls have been nerfed, now you gotta fight (but I agree 11vs27 is hilarious for a poor colony). Sapper which got into Mihsan's colony seems to be much more experienced in mining. Getting a sapper with high mining skill is the same bad luck as being engaged into a melee fight by a raider with high melee skill or fighting a skilled shooter who carries an assault rifle.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 23, 2018, 04:09:08 AM
Is tending/infections still being worked on?
Tending quality is all over the place or so it seems. I can get like 40% and 0% tend quality without using meds.  Sometimes I get very low quality tending with herbs around 5% even though there's no health problems with my doctor.

Had a pawn get a dogbite, no other health problems. Treated her very shortly afterwards with herbals and clean room.  Stayed in bed the whole time and tend her with herbs instantly when needed.  Yet she died from infection.  Infection beat immunity around 12%. Something funky going on there.

Also my doctor with passion doesn't get a mood bonus while tending.

Hmm, you're right. That doesn't sound right. I have a colonist with 4 in medical with one flame. He consistently tends around 16%-25% but I never saw him tend below that. Anyway, I try to use my better doctor for tending unless she's injured. My bf on the other hand has a colonist with 8 in medical and was able to save his polar bear from plague using two herbal meds. The plague started at around 41% and immunity around 29% if I remember correctly. He just tended the polar bear with hands and got a 53% quality.

On a side note, what lvl medical does your doctor have? Are you certain that doctor was the only one with Doctor enabled under Work tab at the time that you were treating the pawn with the dog bite? A couple of times I've forgotten to disable doctoring for pawns with low lvl medical (was trying to lvl up their medical on prisoners) and they rushed to treat their injured friends.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ardshael on June 23, 2018, 04:14:16 AM
Found another quirk

Captured Enemies - If I capture an enemy at an outpost or another encounter, bringing them back to base doesn't let me "capture" them or place them in a jail cell. I think it's because they are loaded with equipment and the colonists are unloading them before placing them in the cell. This means they wander around for a while and eventually try to escape.

I believe they should be either escorted to their cell then unloaded or they are escorted and all the items are immediately dropped on the ground. I'm OK with either scenario. Status quo is frustrating.

P.S. I hope my last message didn't get buried without it being read. I'm surprised no one commented on the caravan arrival notification request.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 23, 2018, 04:34:44 AM

On a side note, what lvl medical does your doctor have? Are you certain that doctor was the only one with Doctor enabled under Work tab at the time that you were treating the pawn with the dog bite? A couple of times I've forgotten to disable doctoring for pawns with low lvl medical (was trying to lvl up their medical on prisoners) and they rushed to treat their injured friends.

My doctor is lvl 3.  I'm certain it's her who's been tending.  I'd say treating with herbs usually goes around 14% - 35% with her.  It does go below that at times even tho all the conditions are right.  This is the same doctor who will treat wounds around 40-50% sometimes without any meds.  Haven't had anyone die on me yet with diseases, they've been pulling through so far.  I felt the infection rate was too high when I got the notification so I kept an eye on that. Sure enough there wasn't a chance to save that pawn. 

Caravans - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a proper letter notification for a caravan arriving at a location. I can't tell you how many times a caravan arrives and I didn't see the small notification because something else was happening. If you do nothing else, this addition would make me happy.

lol yeah, I remember missing/forgetting those at times. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 23, 2018, 05:27:24 AM
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Infection

Not sure if you've seen this yet, but the section under Prevention and Treatment (scroll to the bottom) is pretty interesting! Might help explain why your pawn succumbed to the infection.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 05:35:59 AM
Please, make downed pawns able to be carried via transport pods.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Wanderer_joins on June 23, 2018, 06:36:58 AM
P.S. I hope my last message didn't get buried without it being read. I'm surprised no one commented on the caravan arrival notification request.

The issue is not to be burried under too many notifications. What was really dangerous in previous built is you had no notification if members of caravans had a bad mood, were starving or needed treatment. My take is it's up to the player to pay attention to the caravan arrival besides the top left notification. And if things go wrong you've the permanent warning on the right.

Maybe a specific color to frame caravan pawns when they're moving/ resting or waiting could help, or an icon like inspirations to notify they're standing by.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Divvy on June 23, 2018, 06:57:43 AM
I haven't played the build yet so don't take this as feedback as such, but I'm worried about the new armor system contributing to unlucky one-shots and making armor more inconsistent and less reliable. Currently having a power armor will save a pawn from most shots to really weak and highly fatal spots. However, if after the patch weapons just do their full damage if they penetrate armor, you'll have sniper rifles tearing off limbs from people with legendary power armor with potentially just a single shot. It just seems to throw combat more towards RNG.

I personally think a good system would be a damage threshold stat with a weapon penetration stat that gets compared to the armor's threshold value to determine how much, if any, damage goes through. I think it would be really cool if pistols and such wouldn't be able to penetrate power armor and bulletproof vests, while charge lances, sniper rifles and such would more easily penetrate such armor but still cause reduced damage to ease up on RNG disasters a bit. Any non-penetrating shot should still damage armor, though. I wouldn't want infinitely invulnerable pawns against any type of attack.

While the current system is less RNG, it's not great either, as we can have scenarios where a squirrel or a cat can scratch a pawn in power armor to death relatively quickly. A threshold system would fix this issue as well.

Imagine a raider in power armor just getting plinked futilely by your gun turrets. That would be a really interesting challenge!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: East on June 23, 2018, 07:03:29 AM
video: https://clips.twitch.tv/UninterestedTrappedSrirachaTwitchRaid

I went through an unreasonable situation when I was doing a 'Incapacitated refugee' quest today.

I thought that the colonist's wife fell down and contacted me and We have enough weapon and armor.

When I almost arrived at the fallen refugees, I was attacked by the mechanoid and thought I should return quickly.

When I entered the fallen refugees, I saw a fallen man and I immediately reconstructed the caravan.

Soon, 90 friendship alliance fell to -75, and friendship fell.

That's right. The object that he saved was an alliance.

And the caravan could not move because the target was hurt.

I had to return quickly under limited food, so I had to forsake her.

colonist were penalized for losing their wives.

The situation that I was going to rescue was worse than the situation I did not go to save.

This event is unreasonable.

When she comes to rescue her, she can not move, so she has to protect her for a period of time that she can move and she has to take care of the risk of getting her.

I went to rescue, but it is also absurd if I am an ally. Why does not she ask her team for help? What kind of benefit do I have to do for this event?

At least the target of the event should not be allied.

--
Add.
I would like a minimum safety device to go from an alliance (+90) to -75. So the warning window must be opened.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 07:30:29 AM
P.S. I hope my last message didn't get buried without it being read. I'm surprised no one commented on the caravan arrival notification request.

Don't worry, every message gets read. Since you're not the first  to bring up the caravan arrival message thing, we're making that change.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Venatos on June 23, 2018, 08:04:36 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!

this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 23, 2018, 08:07:35 AM
Request for Quests being able to be pinned! Perhaps a minimise option like Windows has? I know it's in the History tab, but it's not a very elegant solution.

Thoughts on plate armor: Plate armor is good! I would even go as far to say it's prefarable than armored vests and simple/advance helmets. This is probably more of a mentality thing instead of a numbers thing, but giving everyone plate armor makes feel more "safe" than giving shooters armored vests/helmets. Perhaps a debuff to movement, about -10% or so? Not too much, real plate armor is form fitting. If that medieval helmet is to be added, also give a debuff to sight.

On the Healer serum: Before you can right-click and use it with a click, now it has to be done via operations. This isn't a bad thing, but it does screw over if for whatever reason, your only pawn can't doctor and because of it, can't apply directly. I would also, if able, to administer the serum on a specific part. My one grower had a missing eye and a scar. Guess which one it healed first. If said pawn had prosthesis, give an option saying (remove prosthesis first)?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 08:14:24 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!

this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?

We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: East on June 23, 2018, 08:24:49 AM
I do not understand how this is the way to get legendary items.

Can someone explain this?

If a colonist gets any inspiration, is he created with a certain probability when he tries to produce?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 08:35:57 AM
New build! Raw log:

--

Text adjustments on prosthetic appreciation/disgust (since prosthophile/phobe was renamed).
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected apparel. Also resized some oversized art and made minor art fixes.
Wild men now show up in the Wildlife tab.
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected bodies.
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected head and hair art. Also made some minor art corrections (some fuzzy/bright pixels around hair edges).
Add ProstheticAppreciation/Disgust thoughts for Transhumanist/BodyPurist.
Reduce PSD size: Tribal headdress. Centered it (I intend to center the rest of the character art so we don't need a weird offset forever).
Fix: Stuff offsets not applied if stat value is zero or below because of accidental interaction with applyFactorsIfNegative. Also, moved stuff stat offset application after stat factors, since there’s no sense in multiplying a stat’s offset but its own factor. Adjusted gold, and silver beauty stat offsets. Result: Walls made of super expensive materials now have beauty.
Resized ship AI core building (3,3)->(2x2) to make symmetrical ships possible. Resized art to standard size per cell as well and cleaned it up a bit.
Reduce centipede health, armor, and melee attack power. Increase scyther armor.
PointsPer1000Wealth 7.8 -> 7.5
Fix: Shooting small-size targets makes people spray bullets more widely.
Fix: Shot spread suddenly becomes a lot wider if the target lays down (this problem still exists for target size).
Allow multiselect of wild healroot.
Tuned shooting spread curves. Moved shooting spread curves into ShootTunings.
Allow running conduit through smoothed walls.
Set a minimum aimon chance at 2%.
Refactor some shot accuracy code; moved accuracy variables into ShootTunings.
Remove meleeshoot functionality.
Add debug output to tune wild miss results.
Implement new wild-miss behavior.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jstank on June 23, 2018, 09:12:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/acXx93u.png)outside temp 49 Degrees F and snowing?

I also noticed that the new crafting benches are not increasing crafting skill
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: desedse on June 23, 2018, 09:17:55 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What’s the bug? That’s not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I’m not sure if it’s the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it’s a quirk? No clue.

Edit: I’ve been playing in 64bit, I haven’t checked to see if I’d have the same problem I’m 32bit though. I’ll check when I get home from work
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bowman on June 23, 2018, 09:22:23 AM
Great improvements so far, I registered just to help with some feedback on playing the unstable build - I've been playing for a long time but never posted...

Here's my feedback after putting in quite some time with the new build. For reference, I started alone and naked in a temperate forest with a river and a road on a coastal tile. I am now almost starting to build my spaceship with 10 colonists. I


- Rivers feel great now, they are interesting, as problems and as support. Make the map much more interesting.
- Related to that, bridges are really cool and fun to play around with - for chokepoints, and balancing them with walking needs to access the other part of the map.
- The coastline looks cool! In effect it makes my map a bit smaller but I like it. In the long run a harbor for building boats to sail around in would be interesting (I am on an inland sea with big islands and camps on them that I cannot reach I think).
- I really struggled because I couldn't build a campfire to cook at first, that was rough. I saw that the crafting requirement was removed, that is really better that way.
- I saw infections were scaled down a little but not too much. Good - they should stay menacing! They're annoying and at the wrong moment can be very scary. I actually got a gift of some ultratech medicine from my first caravan, and most of that was used over time fighting infections until I had trade and medicine up, as well as a backup medicine expert.
- Nitpicking: why is it "ultratech" medicine but "archotech" arms etc? There's a reason I suppose but it's confusing a bit.
- My colonist got her foot shot off, and there wasn't even a wound on the leg. Was that because it was a laser weapon? Still felt weird that she needed less attention than someone scratched up by a squirrel, and she was up and running instantly as well. Furthermore: There's no mood debuff for losing a limb in combat! I was almost excited when I checked her tab to see what that would be called and how bad it would be when it happened - but there was nothing. Feels like getting your foot shot off should have a debuff, they whine about everything else...
- Fires seem less crazy now, which is good. Still, dry thunderstorms happen quite often and they are just annoying. All I end up doing is manually fighting fires with my guys in draft mode until it's over, which is click-intensive but not fun. There's not really a challenge there any more either, especially with fires scaled down a little. I would reduce their occurence and/or replace them with flashstorms - they're over quickly at least.
- Difficulty: Distress call quests (helping out someone) are very tough to completely impossible to do at first. I twice had someone sad for 20 days for losing a loved one because I didn't rescue them. I did go to the place, but the bandits I faced were absolutely overwhelming. First one was my first survivor finding her father surrounded by 8 guys with guns, while she was in her first shirt and pants with a short bow. It does add to the story in a way, but it felt unusually hopeless.
- Difficulty: I got Poison Ship earlier than I would have expected - without knowing exactly what to expect and how to fight centipedes they are a death sentence.
- Difficulty: Some of the quest rewards helped me jump ahead just way too much. One of my very first quest rewards was a legendary chain shotgun that is still one of my best weapons all this time later. Going from short bow to chain shotgun, and then seeing an excellent sniper rifle in the first town I visited, took a lot of interest away from crafting. Maybe a few easier quests with less rewards could be introduced, some sort of scaling progression on them?
- I do like the world and how it feels. The mix of hostile and neutral places and the new goodwill system are great, they feel really interesting and organic. A minor nitpick: the peace talks feel too powerful. I got something like 70 goodwill out of them (with a 14 or 15 social skill, so I know I got lucky there). Working towards peace would be cooler if it were a process. In this case it was waiting for the event and then boom - over. Or maybe the event could be a reward for something?
- The world is great but it feels a little empty still. More towns or locations would make the realistically reachable parts of the surroundings more interesting. Maybe they have less to offer per store then... It's a problem though - you want the world to feel large, also for the trek to the ship, but then it would be swamped with locations. More quests maybe. They are really nice and make the neighborhood interesting, and give a reason to travel.
- since I'm at it: new caravan system is great!
-*Edited in: food poisoning has a problem: I know it's coming but the colonist is not considered sick. I can't just send them to a hospital bed or to their own bed even. Would be great if I could do that once they have the initial effect. What I do now is I draft them and have them waiting next to their own bed - in parts because they also drop their weapons and if I don't manually track a poisoned colonist their weapon ends up in the river and loses 10% before I can get someone to pick it up... Frustrating.

I didn't tame any animals but I don't mind the change in taming at all. All in all a great experience, even after way too many hours playing it's still a ton of fun and generates some crazy stories. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jaredmatt200 on June 23, 2018, 09:48:03 AM
How do you register this game with this steam if you already have the owned from the website.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What’s the bug? That’s not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I’m not sure if it’s the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it’s a quirk? No clue.

Edit: I’ve been playing in 64bit, I haven’t checked to see if I’d have the same problem I’m 32bit though. I’ll check when I get home from work

That's the one, yes. It happens with small colonies too.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Polder on June 23, 2018, 10:02:41 AM
I tried the Naked Brutality start several times and infections are often a death sentence. There is very little that can be done to avoid death from infection. The barrier to managable infections is high: either skill 8 in growing and a lot of time, or lots of silver and a lucky trade.

The way I'm adjusting to this is to start only with a super-immune colonist. Decent combat skills are also required or they will die to the first pirate raid. Which then leads to a lot of rerolling colonists until a suitable candidate is found.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 23, 2018, 10:06:38 AM
How do you register this game with this steam if you already have the owned from the website.

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=21435.0

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Venatos on June 23, 2018, 10:08:10 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!

this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?

We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.
the problem seems to be that the special case of *if the person would die soon* somehow put the other medical issues below basic needs, which makes for insane behavior:
"man im bleeding all over the place" somehow leads to: "i still have a few hours before im in any real danger, lets play some hooprings and eat dinner"  which usualy ends in: "what do you mean my arm is infected and you have to take it off?"
doctors seem to have a similar problem with priorities aka "going to sleep while patients need tending"

i understand that doctors take care of themselfs before feeding patients etc. but pretty much anything that isnt a bruise has preority over selfcare.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Flacwby on June 23, 2018, 10:16:25 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What’s the bug? That’s not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I’m not sure if it’s the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it’s a quirk? No clue.

Edit: I’ve been playing in 64bit, I haven’t checked to see if I’d have the same problem I’m 32bit though. I’ll check when I get home from work

That's the one, yes. It happens with small colonies too.

The frames dropping on right click starts from the beginning, however the larger your colony grows the worse it becomes. It actually gets to a point where you can't control the colony once you get down to 1-2 FPS. As soon as you release the right mouse button, it's back to normal.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 23, 2018, 10:16:53 AM
its saturday and you still updated it omg
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 10:43:35 AM
I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Polder on June 23, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
My colonist fought a rat bare handed, and several times during the fight had abnormally slow recovery time after performing an attack (looking at the log, this could be "kicking sand in the target's eyes"). It seemed to be about 2-3x slower than normal.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 11:19:59 AM
  • don't remember if already mentioned earlier, but watermills are pretty OP, being an obvious choice early on an unparalleled power source despite its wood requirements, maybe make water flow variable like wind turbines
We could add a power factor to the water as a multiplier between 1 and 0. It goes up during rain and drops without rain. We can then make it depend on all the river areas upsteam and rain there as well. RimWorld doesn't use all the CPU cores, meaning it would be possible to make rainfall simulations on a different core, hence adding the feature without slowing down the game. We can even go extreme and make those points flow, meaning there will be benefits from placing wheels at narrow locations, even throwing rocks into the water to make even more water flow through the wheel. The wheel then eats up flowpoints, meaning you will not get twice as much power from having two wheels in a row.

The question is if it's worth the coding time.

One interesting fact to add is that the industrial revolution didn't start with water wheels. Water power have existed for ages (even the Romans used it), but it has reliability issues as it depends heavily on rain. In the 18th century, all the water wheels stopped in England due to lack of rain. A factory owner named Charles Bolton happened to come in contact with an unknown and penniless man called James Watt. Watt converted the factory to steam power, Bolton made a fortune by not relying on weather and they started Bolton & Watt, a steam engine production company. Watt later invented a method of making steam engines constant rpm engines, changing steam usage automatically to match the workload, something waterwheels can't do. This allowed the cotton industry to produce way more with significantly less workers. Those workers then went out to look for new jobs and became the workforce to really start the industrial revolution. Waterwheels became niche, but never died out because they work without fuel. Some factories used until electrification and even today waterwheels are in use. Go to youtube and you can see people making their own. I saw one, which pumps water from a river to some nearby cows while a fence prevents the cows from falling into the river. Yes, it's primitive and looks somewhat crude, yet it works, is cheap/free and is used in commercial production, meaning waterwheels aren't dead.

Something that seemed a little odd was that a river affected me the same in boreal forest when it was -17°C as in arid shrubland when it was 34°C. What I think would be really interesting and made the gameplay more engaging would be if the soaking wet debuff gave a debuff to cold resistance (perhaps even negate cold resistance of clothes).
An interesting fact to add here is that Japan has summers around 40°C and plenty of rain/water. Traditionally they took a bucket of water and a big spoon like thing, walked down the street and threw water around them. This made the stones wet and the process of making the water vaporize takes up energy, meaning it actually cools down the stones, making the temperature on the streets more comfortable. Now with indoor climate control, it's not as widespread anymore, but it haven't died out completely.

Water spraying cooling could be used in RimWorld, not as a freezer, but more like lowering indoor temperature from 40°C to 30°C. Add a new job, which goes to the river, goes inside, work quickly on a tile to lower heat energy on it and repeat. It does take up colonists to do so, but it could be a way to prevent heatstrokes during early/mid game during heatwaves.


Reading this thread gives me plenty of ideas, which would be cool to have ingame. However this thread is about core, which is aimed at new players. It should be well balanced, easy to understand and not bloated with ideas and concepts. We can all add mods if we want. Because of this I see two main tasks right now:
Lot's of people talk about #1, but somehow I have the feeling I'm the only one using ILSpy and Harmony to examine the code for modability at the moment. If it turns out that 1.0 is indeed the final version, now is the time to detect and correct issues for mods where we get the idea for the mod in 2020. I consider this issue to be way more important than details, which can be modded anyway.

Don't worry, every message gets read.
I had the feeling of being ignored as well. Nobody replied and page after page were added until suddenly a reply stated the issue was fixed. I'm now once again able to mod the mod loading code  :D

Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 23, 2018, 11:25:52 AM
I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.

I think the debuff intentionally ignores clothing to incentivize climate control. The range is 15C to 25C.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 23, 2018, 11:55:33 AM
I tried the Naked Brutality start several times and infections are often a death sentence. There is very little that can be done to avoid death from infection. The barrier to managable infections is high: either skill 8 in growing and a lot of time, or lots of silver and a lucky trade.

The way I'm adjusting to this is to start only with a super-immune colonist. Decent combat skills are also required or they will die to the first pirate raid. Which then leads to a lot of rerolling colonists until a suitable candidate is found.

Super-immune trait is one of my favorites! Name is very fitting for the Naked Brutality scenario. Even the tiniest mistake or oversight could cost you the game but I find it very fun. Normally I sit at the colonist selection screen and spam click randomize for at least an hour or two whenever I have to start a new save since I'm pretty picky about traits and passions. The new trait, Tough, is pretty handy as well. My colonist with Tough was able to fend off a very hungry warg with a steel club without taking too much damage, just a couple of scratches and a bite if I remember correctly. When I first saw the attack notice, I thought he was a goner for sure but I've since considered renaming him Badass.

I don't know if I've been extremely lucky in this most recent run of mine but 63 days have passed and I haven't suffered an infection, yet. My best doctor at the time only had 3 in medical but I used steel beds and the rough granite flooring underneath me since I dug into a hill.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
Seeing as another update is up

- Still hope that raiders being capable of self-tending will be brought back. It felt very right. It felt like they had brains... Until next update lobotomized them again.
- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.
- Also I'll still be nagging about item quality - masterwork and legendary shouldn't be quests only. Sure it does add more incentive to go and try some quests. But if in earlier version you could incredibly slowly but reliably make masterwork or legendary beds for your guys for example. In this version max you can hope for is excellent even lategame with a god-like builder. And with quests you never really can get what you really want, only what random gives after you fight 10 people armed to the teeth with your 3 hobos.

Overall - great update. Centipede armor nerf and scyther buff was badly required good stuff. Melee-shot thingy was removed - another great decision, since it all but disabled any use melee in the game had. I really like how melee was a high risk, high reward thing, with you disabling and putting at a disadvantage otherwise technologically superior enemies.

As for quality and self-tends - i guess its fine. I really hope those get fixed, but if not, theres always our generous modding community. Thanks for your hard work, Tynan. Your work is amazing as always.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 23, 2018, 01:26:06 PM
Here I come again this time with images.

Regarding recreation, I don't why people are complaining so much either, keeping in mind there are now different types of recreation, involving dexterity or intellectual, and perhaps social/drugs I don't know. But all you really  is a couple of things, between the horseshoe and recreation tables, add some beer and smokeleaf (depending on availability), plus some social recreation time together, and they're pretty much satisfied. I assigned just two recreation hours just before sleep and they usually even go to work after that time is done.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/hdhch4zt7/Screenshot_20180623_003707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hdhch4zt7/)

Parking spot for trading caravans, to pretty avoid second picture, needless to say, its quite weird the places they choose to hang around.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/rasda7ukb/Screenshot_20180623_004515.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rasda7ukb/)

Bug spawning, I don't remember seeing it on your patch notes changing it, but I had two weird cases, first had bugs spreading almost cancerous like, second case was much more manageable, I dunno if it was changed or just different severity. First picture was after like a week, second picture was just a couple of days after spawn, pretty much first duplicate.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/6qnjbpzdn/Screenshot_20180620_202601.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6qnjbpzdn/)  (https://s33.postimg.cc/85p40g86j/Screenshot_20180623_012418.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/85p40g86j/)

Caravans, are indeed pretty cool, I don't recall reading about it anywhere, but people will tend themselves in caravan (hopefully the more skilled doctor), and I don't know if needs for the caravan to be paused, but it often helps to have them rest a while and recuperating before going off again. This also makes capturing prisoners on the road more viable.
Forageability is also pretty neat, it serves as a nice way to complement a caravan nutrition, and not at all meant to replace it, so while on the road your Pemmican may last much more than what you thought.
Getting food poisoning while on caravan can be pretty damaging though, heavily slowing movement cost and possibly even losing the whole caravan. I hold my previous suggestion to have different severity cases of poisoning and not just always incapacitating one, also hint whether some food may have low quality or not.
The events that happen are also ok, they always seem scale correctly the size of the challenge, which I actually would like to see more randomness, for example right now you can always expect just minor threat to happen on quests, maybe mix it up more.
As an additional point, doing trade requests are really worth it, but it also feels that the rewards are somewhat too strong, maybe having different grades of quests also help variability, and not always just high rewards.


edit: sorry for posting the full images, I don't get how to attach images otherwise
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 23, 2018, 01:40:32 PM
- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.

I disagree that some food poisoning doesn't knock you out. I recently just got over food poisoning myself and I can tell you that I was pretty much incapacitated for a day and a half. I had fever, chills, intense stomach pain, diarrhea and fatigue. It got to the point where all I could do was sleep. Whenever I had any strength, I was in the bathroom. After about 12 hours of sleeping, I tried to get up and play one of my survival games because I was quite bored of being in bed all day but I couldn't even sit in the chair so I went back to sleep. Up until then, I wasn't aware that food poisoning could literally incapacitate someone for some time as it did with me since I never got food poisoning before. I just heard people get diarrhea and stomach pains whenever they talked about it.

Imo, maybe add different severity to food poisoning. Sometimes it could just be throwing up/diarrhea, but the pawn can still move around a bit. Maybe another time it could be more severe with the pawn needing half a day's worth of bed rest, etc. B18 food poisoning was very negligible and forgotten. However, always being incapacitated due to food poisoning in 1.0 isn't very balanced either. Anyway, I don't know if they decreased chances of food poisoning recently but I haven't had a single colonist come down with food poisoning since arrival (63 days). My cook only had lvl 4 in the skills but has two flames.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gwtheyrn on June 23, 2018, 01:55:24 PM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!

this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?

We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.

I actually have run into this just yesterday. A pawn was bleeding all over the place and decided it was a better idea to go play horseshoes with his ex.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 01:58:14 PM
I disagree that some food poisoning doesn't knock you out.

Holy crap, what did you eat exactly? Those symptoms are more fit for it to be some kind of chemical poisoning... And no, food poisoning incapacitation really needs to go. Even with lowered chance it happens way too often. And having a person down during a raid frequently is a difference between life and death. Should you not have a cook with over 10 skill, you're in for suffering early game. That really shouldn't be so brutal. Like at all.

I like that masterworks are rare, you're really not supposed to be getting those items left and right with average skilled people, its called masterwork/legendary for a reason.

I did say about godlike builders, didn't I? Those items should be rare, but available through crafting if you manage to train and maintain level 20 (godlike) crafter the way it was in B18. Quests shouldn't be the only way to get those. Inspiration mechanics are quite useless for it, so i don't count those. If i am correct in B18 it was 2-3% to get a legendary with a skill lvl 20 crafter. Thats rare enough. I really don't want Rimworld turning into Diablo where the chance of dropping an epic is 0.00002% or quest reward only.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 02:16:31 PM
Food poisoning is variable IRL, but the in-game version is very rare.


Infection is annoying but perfect play can avoid it with naked brutality.  What you can't avoid with normal play is instant game over to early disease or food poisoning RNG (even cooking only in a clean room you need a high cooking skill or you lose sometimes).


Only viable opening for NB is to press ancient dangers instantly and flee the map if you can't handle what's inside --> abandon and repeat.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 02:25:01 PM
I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.

I think the debuff intentionally ignores clothing to incentivize climate control. The range is 15C to 25C.

As I looked in code :
Quote
private static void ApplyBedThoughts(Pawn actor)
    (...)
    if ((double) actor.AmbientTemperature < (double) actor.def.GetStatValueAbstract(StatDefOf.ComfyTemperatureMin, (ThingDef) null))
    (...)
where
Quote
public class ThoughtWorker_Cold : ThoughtWorker
  {
    protected override ThoughtState CurrentStateInternal(Pawn p)
    {
      float num = p.GetStatValue(StatDefOf.ComfyTemperatureMin, true) - p.AmbientTemperature;
      if ((double) num <= 0.0)
        return ThoughtState.Inactive;
      if ((double) num < 10.0)
        return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(0);
      if ((double) num < 20.0)
        return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(1);
      if ((double) num < 30.0)
        return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(2);
      return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(3);
    }
  }
So given this snippets, I would assume, that pawns ComfyTemperatureMin is taken into account, without ignoring clothes.
And i would say if that would not be true (apparel is ignored) then it would be bug, since sleeping in warm clothes (that keeps You warm during day) should be ok and not giving debuff.

Other solution might be by boosting pawn comfy temp when sleeping (+5 so from basic 16 it would go to 21 when sleeping/resting in bed)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 23, 2018, 02:26:09 PM
My bf and I ate exactly the same food that day, excluding the crab onigiri I ordered outside. That was really the only thing I ate that he didn't and then later in the afternoon I started diarrhea. Didn't think anything of it until later that evening when I got fever, chills and couldn't get out of bed the next day. At first I thought I had the flu, but since my bf never got sick, we decided to research all my symptoms and came up with food poisoning. Diarrhea didn't even bother me that much, to be honest. Fatigue and muscle aches were the worst part of the whole experience.

I have yet to break any bones, so knock on wood.  ::)

Like I said earlier, not a single food poisoning case for my colonists 63 days into naked brutality, phoebe rough. My pawn only had 4 in cooking skill and ate a bunch of berries in the beginning. Either I was extremely lucky (I need to start buying lottery tickets) or the chances of getting food poisoning has been toned down significantly. After posting this, my colonists will probably contract diseases and come down with food poisoning all at the same time now.  :P
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 02:27:53 PM
I strongly suggest you trying roulette. You'll get rich!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 23, 2018, 02:32:18 PM
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.

(https://i.imgur.com/cVtMkmO.png)


Also, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...

(https://i.imgur.com/RljQZ4F.png)

I will never understand "players" that "complain" about Predators...aahahahahahaaa
...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: East on June 23, 2018, 02:38:49 PM
-*Edited in: food poisoning has a problem: I know it's coming but the colonist is not considered sick. I can't just send them to a hospital bed or to their own bed even. Would be great if I could do that once they have the initial effect. What I do now is I draft them and have them waiting next to their own bed - in parts because they also drop their weapons and if I don't manually track a poisoned colonist their weapon ends up in the river and loses 10% before I can get someone to pick it up... Frustrating.


I agree. It should be possible to send food poisoning to the hospital bed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 02:41:29 PM
It also should be possible to treat it with meds, to cancel out possible KO. In that case i won't have anything against it incapacitating pawns. If you have the meds to treat it - they shouldn't drop.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 02:45:12 PM
Quote
Also, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...

I thought it was surprising that they lowered revenge proc on them too.  The fundamental issue with them (constant manual pixel hunt) didn't change.  Note that earlier in this thread, you mentioned an issue with pawns getting caught at the edge of the map...complaining about that and saying predators hunting colonists is okay is incoherent - it's the same issue wearing different clothing. 

Predators targeting colonists for hunting with 0 notification remains an inconsistent implementation in Rimworld in 1.0 and that has yet to be refuted in any capacity by anybody.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 23, 2018, 02:49:02 PM
I agree to the above statements regarding food poisoning. Also, it would be nice if the pawn that came down with food poisoning thought that maybe it would be a good idea to lie down and rest in their bed or a medical bed instead of passing out in the middle of nowhere.

Quote
Also, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...

I thought it was surprising that they lowered revenge proc on them too.  The fundamental issue with them (constant manual pixel hunt) didn't change.  Note that earlier in this thread, you mentioned an issue with pawns getting caught at the edge of the map...complaining about that and saying predators hunting colonists is okay is incoherent - it's the same issue wearing different clothing. 

Predators targeting colonists for hunting with 0 notification remains an inconsistent implementation in Rimworld in 1.0 and that has yet to be refuted in any capacity by anybody.

It would be nice if a notification was implemented. I agree with this. Currently, the best way I've kept my colonists safe in 1.0 is to constantly check the wildlife tab to see what the predators are up to and to see their hunger levels. I appreciate the wildlife tab a lot.  :)

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 03:08:22 PM
Yes, the wildlife tab makes it *much* less painful.  However, it's still among the only interactions like this...imagine a battery you had to manually order a touch on every few days or it has a small chance to explode, deleting a pawn. 

There is a mod that gives an alert when a predator targets a colonist for hunting.  This is actually a strictly QoL mod - the game provides this information if you manually click on the predator.

The threat of this varies wildly by biome.  It's almost nothing on tropical/temperate/sea ice, while it's a constant problem on tundra (maps can easily have only caribou and wolves wander in, and wolves won't hunt caribou so you must look CONSTANTLY).

On a more positive note, a similar issue with monitoring disease is less bad now that you can tend disease before previous tend expires, cutting into some of the requirement to constantly watch diseased pawns manually to re-tend at exactly the right moment.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: SpoonBender on June 23, 2018, 03:29:59 PM
I've been playing the unstable branch for a few days now and it seems the game got A LOT harder. I have almost 1200 hours experience in this game and I've always played on extreme difficulty. But now I've not been able to set up a successful colony on extreme difficulty. I have been killed by sappers and mechanoids mostly.

I admit I was a bit reliant on walls and a killbox. I don't use turrets, just a construction to feed them nicely to my gunners. But now there seems to be no use in building walls or a killbox whatsoever. I rarely get 'normal' raiders, mostly sappers, sieges and mechanoid ships.

Early game raids seem to have gotten a lot stronger too. Once I was up against 4 centipedes and 2 lancers with just 6 great bows to shoot at them. That didn't work out very well. One colony was destroyed by 6 raiders when I had just a short bow and 2 pawns, of which one was incapable of violence.

Walls get destroyed a lot quicker. I used to build granite defense pillars around the mechanoid ships, but now a burst from a heavy charge blaster destroys them and my pawns are without cover.

Then there's this change: "--Missed shots now have a 50% extra chance of hitting nothing; this will make missed shots less likely to hit random things (but doesn’t change the chance of missing).". I think this is actually a pretty big thing. With many enemies clustered together missed shots used to have a good chance of hitting other enemies. This 'miss damage' is now reduced with 50%, which reduces the total damage output a lot.

I guess all these things were intended by the devs. It creates more dynamic gameplay, instead of the lemming trains into your defenses. I like it; the game is a huge challenge once again and i need to come up with new strategies. But maybe a bit more balancing is needed. Or maybe extreme difficulty should be next to impossible, which it wasn't before. What do you think?

Anyway, congrats to the devs. There's a lot of nice stuff in this update. I'm off playing Phoebe Chillax on rough difficulty now.

Edit: I just read Tynan's post 'The balancing process'. He says overall challenge got lowered, so maybe I'm just on a bad streak or something.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.


Prisoners with health issues are sold at lower price.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PhantomFav on June 23, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
In caravan mode, during winter, your pawns can forage but cattle can't graze... seems legit :P
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 23, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
Carpet colors missing.  Only red available.

IIRC I researched carpet first, then devilstrand.  Don't know if that's relevant.

Loving this update.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 23, 2018, 03:51:47 PM
Sappers seem much too focused on attacking walls. Even while my character is actively shooting at them, sappers continue to attack walls. Given how quickly a high-level miner can get through a wall and the current swinginess of armor deflection, it's entirely possible to have an enemy sapper run up to a stone wall and finish destroying it before a charge rifle-equipped colonist can incapacitate them.

I much preferred when sappers had to actually use explosives to get through walls, instead of tearing through them with their bare hands, Superman-style. The raiders almost always outnumber the player anyway, so they shouldn't be able to almost-instantaneously breech stone fortifications.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 03:52:39 PM
Another thing :
It's too easy to make allies with providing 'gifts' to visiting caravans.
Giving 260+ bottles of beer maybe is a nice gesture, but should not give over 60 relation points. I would say making a cap of 10-15 reputation per visit would balance it, and prevent being the most popular village on the planet after just 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 03:58:41 PM
I agree about "mining" sapper raids. Those are absolute bullshit.  If grenadiers need to stay there for a minute chuking nades at 2tile wide granite wall, those miners rip through it like paper in 4-5 seconds. That one was kind of bullshit even in B18. They mine both through walls and through mountain tiles 10 times faster (if not more) than any of your colonists can.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 23, 2018, 04:07:36 PM
Imo, maybe add different severity to food poisoning. Sometimes it could just be throwing up/diarrhea, but the pawn can still move around a bit. Maybe another time it could be more severe with the pawn needing half a day's worth of bed rest, etc. B18 food poisoning was very negligible and forgotten. However, always being incapacitated due to food poisoning in 1.0 isn't very balanced either. Anyway, I don't know if they decreased chances of food poisoning recently but I haven't had a single colonist come down with food poisoning since arrival (63 days). My cook only had lvl 4 in the skills but has two flames.
Agreed completely, food poisoning should have varying degrees of severity. Also agree on the chance, it is reasonably rare, but on the off cases that they happen they make an impression, and I can usually expect a chain reaction as well, like several colonist getting poisoned at once. Probably cause of common conditions triggering it, like bad cleanliness at the time.

In caravan mode, during winter, your pawns can forage but cattle can't graze... seems legit :P
Foraging rate during winter is quite lower, pretty much pointless.

I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.
Just from looking at the picture I can see the slave is 96 years old, nearly an heart attack waiting to happen, I've exchanged some prisoner to a better one at very reasonable rate, so I don't its broken at all.

Also, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...
For me its seems to be quite a reasonable strategy to hunt predators, using long range bows, good judgment applied. From my experience solely the hunter can easily down some of them, and it helps keeping livestock safe. Of course if its a bear or rhino you need to be more careful.

Giving 260+ bottles of beer maybe is a nice gesture, but should not give over 60 relation points. I would say making a cap of 10-15 reputation per visit would balance it, and prevent being the most popular village on the planet after just 2-3 years.
How do you not expect 260+ bottles of beer to not give a heft relation boost? Just try to calculate their value at that...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Roolo on June 23, 2018, 04:09:37 PM
I have to say, I like most changes in 1.0. Especially the new QOL things that are added, the bridges, the improvements for caravanning, how armour works now, and yes, I even like the training decay for animals.

There's one thing I dislike though, that mechanoids now die on being downed, and that it's no longer possible to perform operations on mechanoids (for instance shutting them down, or removing scyther blades). I can imagine for vanilla this was only a small part of functionality that could be considered clutter, and it might have been in the way when implementing the two types of scythers. However, it offered great opportunities for modders. For instance, the more mechanoids mod had some addidtional mechanoid parts that could be scavenged. Moreover, I almost finished a mod that allows mechanoid hacking, which relied on this system, and I'm disappointing to see that it's dropped. I really hope this is revised, and that the system makes its way back.







Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 04:20:13 PM
I second @Roolo. I was reallly looking forward to his mechanoid hacking mod. I really hope that mechs being downed will be allowed again. Or at least I hope that you'll be able to get it back through your mod.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
Giving 260+ bottles of beer maybe is a nice gesture, but should not give over 60 relation points. I would say making a cap of 10-15 reputation per visit would balance it, and prevent being the most popular village on the planet after just 2-3 years.
How do you not expect 260+ bottles of beer to not give a heft relation boost? Just try to calculate their value at that...
the value is around 1,6k (264 * 6.24[sell price for me])silver, so not that much. I agree to some boost, but not from 34 to 100 (total relation gain was around +97) and one becomes ally at 75. I would expect getting relation points more stretched in time, over couple of visits/missions, rather than single gift thing.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: rowlurorowf on June 23, 2018, 05:21:09 PM
Not sure if design flaw, bug, or intended...

Can't research Fabrication/Advanced Fabrication to be able to build advanced components without having an advanced component to build a Multi-Analyzer first.

Seems a little cart before the horse to me.  I ran a search and didn't see any other posts on this
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Revshawn on June 23, 2018, 05:37:49 PM
I think it would be best if the Anemic ((SP?)) trait didn't make you sick when you eat raw meat or raw vegetables and gave you a mood buff! Currently it still gives you a good chance of being sick, which is quite strange to me to be honest.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 05:55:06 PM
Food poisoning is variable IRL, but the in-game version is very rare.


Infection is annoying but perfect play can avoid it with naked brutality.  What you can't avoid with normal play is instant game over to early disease or food poisoning RNG (even cooking only in a clean room you need a high cooking skill or you lose sometimes).


Only viable opening for NB is to press ancient dangers instantly and flee the map if you can't handle what's inside --> abandon and repeat.

Naked Brutality is very, very difficult, and seemingly gets more difficult by magnitudes when you start playing in colder biomes;  so far, I've run two NB starts, (Cassandra/Rough) - my Boreal Start is up to 6 pawns, and is hanging by a slender thread...and it's by far the most fucked-up looking and poorly-organized colony that I've ever produced in 2500+ hours of gameplay, because there was no choice.  My type-A personality is repulsed.

The Naked Brutality start on a Temperate Forest with a year-round growing season was much, much easier.  Getting the absolute basic survival stuff (shelter, a ranged weapon, enough food to last more than a day) was a cakewalk by comparison.

In short:  I'm of the opinion that so much has to do with the biome that you choose to start Naked Brutality in.  So many gameplay aspects have been nerfed significantly in 1.0 that it takes a fundamental reassessment of how to effectively play colder maps. 

My most valuable personal reassessment is: start small, and stay small for a while.  There's just not enough resources on colder maps to sustain more than a small handful of pawns (2-3) through the first winter.  Others may have different experiences.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 23, 2018, 05:57:15 PM
After the adjustments to the centipedes were made I feel like this game is much more fair but close to the nail of defeat at all times on extreme mode like it should be. It feels like I have to relearn a lot of things to be able to play a game on that difficulty for too long. Although I do feel like illness in the early game was unfair. The infection rate later on seems 100% legit and forgiving if you manage it properly.

Kill boxes strategy isn't the 1 stop shop for all success which is refreshing. If you were use to doing extreme with that tatic you probably will have to lower the difficulty while you learn new base designes that help vs sappers and mechanoids.

Just like those with mountain bases had to rethink that strategy in the past with infestations.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 06:07:39 PM
I have to say, I like most changes in 1.0. Especially the new QOL things that are added, the bridges, the improvements for caravanning, how armour works now, and yes, I even like the training decay for animals.

There's one thing I dislike though, that mechanoids now die on being downed, and that it's no longer possible to perform operations on mechanoids (for instance shutting them down, or removing scyther blades). I can imagine for vanilla this was only a small part of functionality that could be considered clutter, and it might have been in the way when implementing the two types of scythers. However, it offered great opportunities for modders. For instance, the more mechanoids mod had some addidtional mechanoid parts that could be scavenged. Moreover, I almost finished a mod that allows mechanoid hacking, which relied on this system, and I'm disappointing to see that it's dropped. I really hope this is revised, and that the system makes its way back.

It seemed like that change (the inability to remove Scyther Blades/recover Miniguns) was motivated by trying to remove the financial benefit of them:  in the mid/late game, you could practically base an entire ecomony off of selling Scyther Blades, which were among the most valuable (and portable) trading items around.  You could load a caravan up with 12 Scyther Blades, and clean house when you reached a friendly outpost to sell them.

I'd love to see them come back because they added flavor to the gameplay, and I really hate to see cool, quirky items disappear from the narrative.  As an aside, weirdly enough, I feel the same way about the condensing of Leather Types:  the new system is much more straightforward and easy to understand, and is better overall for gameplay, but I can't tell you how many times I went through my inventory in B18 and saw leathers that reminded me of how I got them ("Where the hell did this boomrat leather come from?  Oh, yeah, the manhunter boomrat pack last year....")  What's good for gameplay doesn't necessarily translate into a good (and memorable) narrative element, and one of my favorite things about this game is how quirky, weird and incongruous it often is...and how often there are little reminders of those past game events laying around all over the place that make you pause the game for a second to reflect on them.

Back to the Scyther Blades/Gun Drop removal:  If I'm correct in assessing the motivation behind removing them, my suggestion would be to reintroduce them, but de-value the Scyther Blade to a fraction of their original value (worth at most 50 Silver apiece, maybe?), and make the Minigun/Weapon drops so that the weapon is inoperable, nearly worthless to trade, but can still be recovered and smelted.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 06:38:29 PM
Food poisoning is variable IRL, but the in-game version is very rare.


Infection is annoying but perfect play can avoid it with naked brutality.  What you can't avoid with normal play is instant game over to early disease or food poisoning RNG (even cooking only in a clean room you need a high cooking skill or you lose sometimes).


Only viable opening for NB is to press ancient dangers instantly and flee the map if you can't handle what's inside --> abandon and repeat.

Naked Brutality is very, very difficult, and seemingly gets more difficult by magnitudes when you start playing in colder biomes;  so far, I've run two NB starts, (Cassandra/Rough) - my Boreal Start is up to 6 pawns, and is hanging by a slender thread...and it's by far the most fucked-up looking and poorly-organized colony that I've ever produced in 2500+ hours of gameplay, because there was no choice.  My type-A personality is repulsed.

The Naked Brutality start on a Temperate Forest with a year-round growing season was much, much easier.  Getting the absolute basic survival stuff (shelter, a ranged weapon, enough food to last more than a day) was a cakewalk by comparison.

In short:  I'm of the opinion that so much has to do with the biome that you choose to start Naked Brutality in.  So many gameplay aspects have been nerfed significantly in 1.0 that it takes a fundamental reassessment of how to effectively play colder maps. 

My most valuable personal reassessment is: start small, and stay small for a while.  There's just not enough resources on colder maps to sustain more than a small handful of pawns (2-3) through the first winter.  Others may have different experiences.

If you have enough wood to cook food as a tribe, you can feed 6+ consistently on tundra (I've yet to see a viable ice sheet start on tribal in any recent patch).

Problem with NB is it has a lot of real difficulty but also a non-trivial amount of 100% fake difficulty (die to RNG).

The heavy nerf to planting trees (might be a little much) actually nerfed deserts more than anything nerfed boreal/tundra in 1.0.  Alpha beavers hitting early in desert in NB puts you in a bad spot.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 23, 2018, 07:34:53 PM
I hope Mechanoids can be turned off/harvest for scyther blades, if only because I've been looking forward to Roolo's mechanoid mod since forever. Even if it doesn't, I hope it's in the game code somewhere so modders can use them!

Also devaluing scyther blades to like 50 Silver a pop may be a good way so as to not make the game too easy. I don't mind Centipedes automatically dying since shutting them off was just extra work, but as some modders rely on this frame, I hope it does come back. Maybe even have a very low chance to salvage the minigun off them?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.

Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.

About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 07:56:47 PM
Quote
If you have enough wood to cook food as a tribe, you can feed 6+ consistently on tundra (I've yet to see a viable ice sheet start on tribal in any recent patch).

For tribes, agreed.  The difference is Pemmican, which makes all the difference in the world. Tribal starts will have it, Naked Brutality doesn't, and that changes everything:  you can't stockpile any food effectively for a very long time.   

My last B18 start, I did a custom Tribal scenario: One Tribal pawn, 75 Pemmican, a Short Bow, Tribal cloth clothing, and a Warg.  Among the first things I did was secure a few days' worth of food, via campfire/pemmican.  That frees a solo pawn up to start gathering healroot, planting crops, chopping wood, additional hunting and gathering, without worrying about starving within 48 hours.

That scenario was a breeze, comparitively.  Having no way to stockpile food for longer than a day or two changes everything, and that's exactly what makes NB so tough a start.  Stockpiling *anything* is near-impossible: it's getting used as soon as it's produced.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 07:58:56 PM
Brilliant idea, sir. You get up to 25-30 armored raiders with automatic weaponry like assault rifles, heavy SMGs and even a triple launcher, but all you need to do is really just confront them with your brave 14 people, 4 of which are pacifists, 2 have pieces of wood for legs, one got his eye scratched out by a mad bunny. You have mostly survival rifles, shotguns, short range machine pistols and the like, but don't let it worry you! Just man up, drop the dependency on walls and those pathetic turrets and go out with a blaze. Then get mutilated, raped and kidnapped - no big deal, you can always just start over.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 08:06:02 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.

Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.

About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.

Both my Naked Brutality starts have lasted well over a game year without any deaths on Cassandra/Rough, and are still going - no deaths on either.  First colony is at 6 pawns, second colony is at 3.  I've restarted (and am doing a third re-start) to gauge the changes of the daily patches for 1.0 on gameplay, and my own strategies.

Commenting about difficulty is entirely different than complaining about it...as is noting potential scenarios which arise with 1.0 that make gameplay prohibitively difficult, if any are found.  This entire thread is about feedback and user experiences of 1.0, so...this is the place to discuss impressions and suggestions if there ever were one.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: East on June 23, 2018, 08:27:27 PM
I think the mechnoid ships should have two advanced components. Assuming a location where you can not trade around, you need four more advanced components to produce an advanced component, which means you have to destroy four ships. It has four ships too many. I think it would be appropriate to have two ships. Also, when the ship comes, it will give you a challenging pleasure because you can do something with rewards.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 08:45:17 PM
I hope Mechanoids can be turned off/harvest for scyther blades, if only because I've been looking forward to Roolo's mechanoid mod since forever. Even if it doesn't, I hope it's in the game code somewhere so modders can use them!
I tried look into this and it looks like Defs/PawnCapacityDefs/PawnCapacity.xml holds the answer. It has Consciousness on top and it has a bool called lethalMechanoids set. I assume setting it to false will allow mechanoids to be disabled without actually killing them.

Also devaluing scyther blades to like 50 Silver a pop may be a good way so as to not make the game too easy. I don't mind Centipedes automatically dying since shutting them off was just extra work, but as some modders rely on this frame, I hope it does come back. Maybe even have a very low chance to salvage the minigun off them?
Just make other factions reject buying mechanoid technology. It's against their religion or something. Problem solved. Another issue to consider is what if you sell lots of weapons to some faction and then they turn on you? Should you be killed by an army full of people with scyther blades or miniguns or whatever you sold them? The whole concept of selling weapons to potential future enemies is a bit weird if you start to think about it. And even if the faction in question is ok, they could be raided and then the raiders have the weapons.
Realistically speaking, some weapons should be so dangerous in the wrong hands that your best option should be to take them apart if you don't want to use them yourself.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zoolder on June 23, 2018, 08:46:07 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.

Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.

About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.

Both my Naked Brutality starts have lasted well over a game year without any deaths on Cassandra/Rough, and are still going - no deaths on either.  First colony is at 6 pawns, second colony is at 3.  I've restarted (and am doing a third re-start) to gauge the changes of the daily patches for 1.0 on gameplay, and my own strategies.

Commenting about difficulty is entirely different than complaining about it...as is noting potential scenarios which arise with 1.0 that make gameplay prohibitively difficult, if any are found.  This entire thread is about feedback and user experiences of 1.0, so...this is the place to discuss impressions and suggestions if there ever were one.

Bro on extreme I've never been in a situation like that, A18 or 1.0. If I'm being attacked by a massive raid I may be out numbered but I usually have comparable fire power. Sappers still also pour through a choke like a bunch of idiots which makes for easy pickings of people running for cover. Basic strategy and pawn placement will have you easily win any engagement like that, and if you are a ever at a point like that in a game you should have at least one disposable rocket or orbital strike to clean that shit up if you're that late game. This really just sounds like complaining from someone who needs to play on a lower difficulty. Just cause you can't handle every situation with a kill box doesn't mean the game is broke.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: bootcampvictim on June 23, 2018, 09:53:04 PM
It would be awesome if there was some improvement in pathfinding.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 10:05:24 PM
Yeah... Deathless dream of colonists actually dodgin trees instead of vaulting over.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Injured Muffalo on June 23, 2018, 10:15:31 PM
Impressions from my first few minutes:

- I kinda miss the old blueprints. Maybe if they were still blue but brighter they would work for everyone.

- The raspberry bush looks pretty bad. It looks like a tomato bush. Liked it better before.

- It's nice that you don't need to generate the world map in game. I assume it's front loaded, so...yeah, loading took a long time, I think, but the gameplay was smoother.

- (trivial) I would like to be able to set a default drug policy for whomever joins the colony.

- Combat log looks rather disorganized. Wildlife is "unaffiliated." Maybe if you put some kind of line break type thing between the settings in that window and where the log is it would look better.

- Wildlife tab: not sure how I feel about this. It's like a developer tool to omnisciently sense all life in the area. The ease of marking animals to train looks nice, but honestly I feel like you should have to look around and pick a good one. Seems too powerful.

So, of course it seems less polished than the stable beta ATM...the nightmare is liking the last beta more than the finished product. Watch this space.  ;)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 11:01:06 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.

Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.

About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.

Both my Naked Brutality starts have lasted well over a game year without any deaths on Cassandra/Rough, and are still going - no deaths on either.  First colony is at 6 pawns, second colony is at 3.  I've restarted (and am doing a third re-start) to gauge the changes of the daily patches for 1.0 on gameplay, and my own strategies.

Commenting about difficulty is entirely different than complaining about it...as is noting potential scenarios which arise with 1.0 that make gameplay prohibitively difficult, if any are found.  This entire thread is about feedback and user experiences of 1.0, so...this is the place to discuss impressions and suggestions if there ever were one.

Bro on extreme I've never been in a situation like that, A18 or 1.0. If I'm being attacked by a massive raid I may be out numbered but I usually have comparable fire power. Sappers still also pour through a choke like a bunch of idiots which makes for easy pickings of people running for cover. Basic strategy and pawn placement will have you easily win any engagement like that, and if you are a ever at a point like that in a game you should have at least one disposable rocket or orbital strike to clean that shit up if you're that late game. This really just sounds like complaining from someone who needs to play on a lower difficulty. Just cause you can't handle every situation with a kill box doesn't mean the game is broke.

Uh...why are you quoting my post?  Go back and re-read the last page...think you got me mixed up with someone else.  And I disagree...I don't think he's complaining at all:  I think he plays the game the way that is enjoyable for him, which is as valid as any other opinion here.

Some people don't mind a body-count for their pawns.  Others do, and that makes a difference in their strategy choices.  Advice like "man up and fight" is somewhat condescending, and sheds no new light on things;  I doubt highly that Madman666 is a rookie at this game, and I'm positive I'm not...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 11:04:25 PM
1531 hour played in RW... yeah. If I am still a noob after that, maybe i should just retire.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ramsis on June 23, 2018, 11:31:36 PM
Friendly reminder to all testers to play nice and don't be rude to one another over their experiences compared to yours. We want ALL FEEDBACK.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Diana Winters on June 23, 2018, 11:45:27 PM
Now with the inclusion of plate armor, perhaps add a medieval faction?
.
.
.
And matching helmets?
Additionally, what about chainmail? Studded leather? Crossbows? It would be great if the medieval era was fleshed out a bit more.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:17:38 AM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.

Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 12:28:11 AM
I hope Mechanoids can be turned off/harvest for scyther blades, if only because I've been looking forward to Roolo's mechanoid mod since forever. Even if it doesn't, I hope it's in the game code somewhere so modders can use them!
I tried look into this and it looks like Defs/PawnCapacityDefs/PawnCapacity.xml holds the answer. It has Consciousness on top and it has a bool called lethalMechanoids set. I assume setting it to false will allow mechanoids to be disabled without actually killing them.

Also devaluing scyther blades to like 50 Silver a pop may be a good way so as to not make the game too easy. I don't mind Centipedes automatically dying since shutting them off was just extra work, but as some modders rely on this frame, I hope it does come back. Maybe even have a very low chance to salvage the minigun off them?
Just make other factions reject buying mechanoid technology. It's against their religion or something. Problem solved. Another issue to consider is what if you sell lots of weapons to some faction and then they turn on you? Should you be killed by an army full of people with scyther blades or miniguns or whatever you sold them? The whole concept of selling weapons to potential future enemies is a bit weird if you start to think about it. And even if the faction in question is ok, they could be raided and then the raiders have the weapons.
Realistically speaking, some weapons should be so dangerous in the wrong hands that your best option should be to take them apart if you don't want to use them yourself.

Good to know mech downing can probably be turned on again by setting one parameter to true, that's at least one problem solved. However, the ability to operate has also been removed. Getting that back is definitely possible, but asks for the extra effort of reimplementing a system that was basically there already (including the shutdown operation at least). Again, this is all possible by just throwing in some time, but reimplementing something that was already there makes me wonder why it was removed in the first place, hence my feedback earlier.





Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:28:20 AM
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.

(https://i.imgur.com/cVtMkmO.png)

That dude is 96 years old! Reasonably-aged, healthy slaves are still quite valuable in-game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:32:34 AM
I've been playing the unstable branch for a few days now and it seems the game got A LOT harder. I have almost 1200 hours experience in this game and I've always played on extreme difficulty. But now I've not been able to set up a successful colony on extreme difficulty. I have been killed by sappers and mechanoids mostly.

I admit I was a bit reliant on walls and a killbox. I don't use turrets, just a construction to feed them nicely to my gunners. But now there seems to be no use in building walls or a killbox whatsoever. I rarely get 'normal' raiders, mostly sappers, sieges and mechanoid ships.

Early game raids seem to have gotten a lot stronger too. Once I was up against 4 centipedes and 2 lancers with just 6 great bows to shoot at them. That didn't work out very well. One colony was destroyed by 6 raiders when I had just a short bow and 2 pawns, of which one was incapable of violence.

Walls get destroyed a lot quicker. I used to build granite defense pillars around the mechanoid ships, but now a burst from a heavy charge blaster destroys them and my pawns are without cover.

Then there's this change: "--Missed shots now have a 50% extra chance of hitting nothing; this will make missed shots less likely to hit random things (but doesn’t change the chance of missing).". I think this is actually a pretty big thing. With many enemies clustered together missed shots used to have a good chance of hitting other enemies. This 'miss damage' is now reduced with 50%, which reduces the total damage output a lot.

I guess all these things were intended by the devs. It creates more dynamic gameplay, instead of the lemming trains into your defenses. I like it; the game is a huge challenge once again and i need to come up with new strategies. But maybe a bit more balancing is needed. Or maybe extreme difficulty should be next to impossible, which it wasn't before. What do you think?

Anyway, congrats to the devs. There's a lot of nice stuff in this update. I'm off playing Phoebe Chillax on rough difficulty now.

Edit: I just read Tynan's post 'The balancing process'. He says overall challenge got lowered, so maybe I'm just on a bad streak or something.

For the main gameplay modes I think the overall challenge is lowered, but critically, the cheese tactics you were depending on before have been countered. Especially at Extreme.

So the result is, normal tactics work better, and cheese tactics don't work as well. Which means if you were using cheese, it'll seem harder, and if you were using normal tactics, it'll seem easier. Since you were using cheese, it seems a lot harder.

Honestly the way you describe it is how I want Extreme to be. It's supposed to be really fucking hard. Finishing on that level should be a serious achievement not possible without some dedicated play and a dose of luck.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:34:42 AM
I agree about "mining" sapper raids. Those are absolute bullshit.  If grenadiers need to stay there for a minute chuking nades at 2tile wide granite wall, those miners rip through it like paper in 4-5 seconds. That one was kind of bullshit even in B18. They mine both through walls and through mountain tiles 10 times faster (if not more) than any of your colonists can.

Really no need to get angry, just give your opinion please. We do have rules against sustained hostility and anger venting like that.

That said, your point has been echoed elsewhere so I am planning on slowing down miner sappers somehow.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:36:52 AM
I have to say, I like most changes in 1.0. Especially the new QOL things that are added, the bridges, the improvements for caravanning, how armour works now, and yes, I even like the training decay for animals.

There's one thing I dislike though, that mechanoids now die on being downed, and that it's no longer possible to perform operations on mechanoids (for instance shutting them down, or removing scyther blades). I can imagine for vanilla this was only a small part of functionality that could be considered clutter, and it might have been in the way when implementing the two types of scythers. However, it offered great opportunities for modders. For instance, the more mechanoids mod had some addidtional mechanoid parts that could be scavenged. Moreover, I almost finished a mod that allows mechanoid hacking, which relied on this system, and I'm disappointing to see that it's dropped. I really hope this is revised, and that the system makes its way back.

It's perfectly possible to mod things so mechs don't die on being downed, that shouldn't be a huge problem I think.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 24, 2018, 12:55:19 AM
Really no need to get angry, just give your opinion please. We do have rules against sustained hostility and anger venting like that.

That said, your point has been echoed elsewhere so I am planning on slowing down miner sappers somehow.

Thanks for answering. No hostility of whatsoever, Tynan, i guess using the bs word sounded a tad too rude, so if it offended anyone, accept my apologies. Its just that compared to actual grenadiers, that have to throw nades at walls\mountains, sappers that mine through make it seem like a walk in the park - couple "tinks" on a limestone wall and its gone. While colonists on the other hand take forever to dismantle walls, both by deconstructing and through use of weapons. Seems a bit unfair. So i am glad its being revised.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 12:59:09 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 01:04:32 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.

It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 01:15:14 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.

It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.

Thanks again for the reply. That clears things up. Still, the money fountain problem could have been resolved without removing the feature, but the other complaints seem valid, so I can see why you didn't bother to spend more time on it. Good luck with wrapping things up!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ku on June 24, 2018, 01:35:27 AM
It would be good to see fertility, when building a growing zone.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Golden on June 24, 2018, 02:16:52 AM
On the whole I like the changes and additions to RimWorld.

I like the simplification of the crafting levels, the removal of Shoddy and Superior, although probably I'll miss Superior.
I love having the Wildlife Tab in vanilla.
I love the decrease in energy cost for basic lamps.
I love the smoothed walls (and floors from before, of course), but I think the build time for them has increased way too much.  They also look great.
I love the new butcher spot.
I love the ability to refuel the fires and torches.
I like the look of the blueprints.
I like the tab to see exactly what a trader will buy - even if it is so limited.  :)
I like the renaming of Joy to Recreation.
While not being able to build a roof if there's a tree in the area was confusing at first with the popup, I like the idea and execution.
I love the new icon on the pawns showing their inspiration.


I HATE the excess time taken away from work so very frequently for recreation/wandering/stargazing/cloudwatching.  It now takes FOREVER to do anything at all.  Yes, I made a horseshoe post right away, but it didn't help enough.  I can't express enough how much this kills my enjoyment and how much I don't want to play again when I know I'm facing the same thing.
I don't like the excess difficulty and time it now takes to train pets.  The extra step added is fine, but the other time extensions seem punitive.
I don't like the difficulty in trading with visitors, especially in the beginning.  They aren't very often and those limits hurt.  I can see it working just fine later in the game.
I don't like how the gifting system works.  Maybe I don't understand it, which is very likely, but I haven't yet been able to give a gift.  Perhaps more explanation or tips, please.
I don't like that I have to already have a number of advanced components to be able to make the benches to fabricate them. While I did see a trader with a couple, it was in early game and I couldn't afford them then.
I don't like the slowness of plants growing in the wild.  The grass cover seemed exceptionally sparse in the Temperate Forest I was playing in most recently - also the availability of the wild berries was very low.  :(

There's more, of course, but those are the things that stick out right now.

Thank you for 1.0, Ludeon Studios!

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ZE on June 24, 2018, 02:16:52 AM
i guess in addition what i posted before regarding cooling and water, swimming traits that give movement speed boosts in water would be interesting..  it would be hilarious to see a raider skip a river you was using as a chokepoint to melee your people from behind
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ardshael on June 24, 2018, 02:47:26 AM
Found a good one... probably should be a bug.

This guy's waist is "cut off". Not only is he miraculously still alive, he apparently still has his legs and can move. LOL

(https://www.screencast.com/t/lTjNJkxU)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jamaicancastle on June 24, 2018, 03:12:43 AM
Found a good one... probably should be a bug.

This guy's waist is "cut off". Not only is he miraculously still alive, he apparently still has his legs and can move. LOL

(https://www.screencast.com/t/lTjNJkxU)
The waist isn't normally a hittable part of the body; it's meant to just be an attachment point for belts and things. (Hence why the legs aren't connected to it.) It's very odd that it was able to come up as an attack target at all; I thought they had 0% coverage?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 24, 2018, 03:32:56 AM
Brilliant idea, sir. You get up to 25-30 armored raiders with automatic weaponry like assault rifles, heavy SMGs and even a triple launcher, but all you need to do is really just confront them with your brave 14 people, 4 of which are pacifists, 2 have pieces of wood for legs, one got his eye scratched out by a mad bunny. You have mostly survival rifles, shotguns, short range machine pistols and the like, but don't let it worry you! Just man up, drop the dependency on walls and those pathetic turrets and go out with a blaze. Then get mutilated, raped and kidnapped - no big deal, you can always just start over.

I usually peek-shot them from structures outside my perimeter wall, which interrupts their AI script.  Though that late in the game you can throw in an insanity lance or shock lance to force a switch and stall too.

I've been running NB scenarios except swapped to strating in tribe tech on extreme.  It was painful going at first, because if you get food poisoned (can't 100% control this) or contract early disease you're dead.  I was able to mitigate the latter via raiding ancient dangers and abandoning base to stack up 50 luciferium and some power armor before finally settling.  Had to survive a few 3 vs 10 raids and had a drop pod raid in year 1 that burned my kitchen and dining/work/rec room, but since the map has lots of trees this isn't game over and I've re-walled and rebuilt most of that stuff, starting to stabilize.

Even Cas can screw you early though, and the RNG isn't a matter of skill, no amount of "thinking" gets you past RNG food poisoning, since there's no reliable option for non-food poisoned outcomes unless you reroll for a great cook.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 03:42:28 AM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.

Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.

This happens for any iterator method (methods returning IEnumerable). I'm not sure why, but I can imagine the annotation is there to make clear that the method displayed has a hidden object inside it.

@Nightinggale The problem of not being able to patch the method is in fact not caused by the [DebuggerHidden] annotation. You're not able to patch it with a transpiler because under the hood the method doesn't do anything but returning a c__Iterator object. Inside this c__Iterator object is a method called "MoveNext", which contains the logic you see in the method. So if you want to patch anything inside the iterator method, you shouldn't patch the method directly, but you should patch the MoveNext method inside the hidden object that your method returns.

Patching this won't work with normal harmony patches since there's no way to target this hidden object that way, but there's a way to make it work by specifying TargetMethod(). It may sound complicated, but here's an example:

Code: [Select]
  //example transpiler patch of Pawn.GetGizmos, which is an iterator method which isn't accessible the regular way
  [HarmonyPatch]
  public static class Pawn_GetGizmos_Transpiler {
        static MethodBase TargetMethod()//The target method is found using the custom logic defined here
        {
            var predicateClass = typeof(Pawn).GetNestedTypes(AccessTools.all)
                .FirstOrDefault(t => t.FullName.Contains("c__Iterator2"));//c__Iterator2 is the hidden object's name, the number at the end of the name may vary. View the IL code to find out the name
            return predicateClass.GetMethods(AccessTools.all).FirstOrDefault(m => m.Name.Contains("MoveNext")); //Look for the method MoveNext inside the hidden iterator object
        }
        static IEnumerable<CodeInstruction> Transpiler(IEnumerable<CodeInstruction> instructions)
        {
         //transpiler code here
        }
}

When viewing the IL code in your decompiler, you can find that your original method contains only code to call the hidden iterator object, and you can find the hidden iterator object, and see that it contains the code of your original method.

I hope this is a bit clear, send me a PM if you still have questions.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 24, 2018, 04:10:59 AM
Brilliant idea, sir. You get up to 25-30 armored raiders with automatic weaponry like assault rifles, heavy SMGs and even a triple launcher, but all you need to do is really just confront them with your brave 14 people, 4 of which are pacifists, 2 have pieces of wood for legs, one got his eye scratched out by a mad bunny. You have mostly survival rifles, shotguns, short range machine pistols and the like, but don't let it worry you! Just man up, drop the dependency on walls and those pathetic turrets and go out with a blaze. Then get mutilated, raped and kidnapped - no big deal, you can always just start over.

In B18, I used to get raids 3 times greater in amount of people with advanced weaponry and armory, including multiple doomsday launchers. It was Cassandra rough difficulty and results of the raid made me switch the difficulty to intense. I had a colony of 6 decent people. Any useless ones were banished.

If you keep colonists with peg legs, scratched eye and IoV, it might be a good idea to do something with them. And if you let them attack your colony avoiding turrets, it's something wrong there as turrets are replacable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: East on June 24, 2018, 04:38:28 AM
This time the animal AI is getting worse.
(B18) When the owner of the animal was determined and the owner was called, the animal immediately moved to that area.
(1.0) Now the animal does not respond even if the owner is called.
Did not you accidentally restore the old version while making changes?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 24, 2018, 04:49:56 AM
Tynan has mentioned that animal reaction to the owner drafting has been improved, although I didn't know what it meant as this feature in B18 was just fine and I couldn't imagine better.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 24, 2018, 05:53:12 AM
I'm looking at my colonists and think there are just too many negative traits. Hence the +1 for green thumb, instead of more sickly, excess eaters and such. Actually, why not have more positive than negative traits? (fun!)

btw, your previous graphics guy was better, some of the new icons and items look much worse than before ;-)

Example is medicine, silver, bed, wind turbine, mining icon, the new ones miss the feel of the original ones. I'm surprised you want to tweak something which was perfect.

"The raspberry bush looks pretty bad. It looks like a tomato bush. Liked it better before."

Yeah x1000000, looks like something I would do in Paint with my 0 artist skill level. It is clearly more visible, but the old one was perfect fit for the game.

Hard to tell whether the wildlife tab is good idea, you had to look yourself for animals - wildlife tab makes it easy, but misses the fun and effort of searching yourself, game becomes more automatic, click-done. So no thinking involved, no effort involved to look around from time to time. Idk, might be 'too much'. Making it so automatic that the game misses the fun and slight effort aspect of doing it. It's a good idea on paper, but makes the game too automatic and devoid of this slight effort that was previously needed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: SpoonBender on June 24, 2018, 06:18:38 AM
For the main gameplay modes I think the overall challenge is lowered, but critically, the cheese tactics you were depending on before have been countered. Especially at Extreme.

So the result is, normal tactics work better, and cheese tactics don't work as well. Which means if you were using cheese, it'll seem harder, and if you were using normal tactics, it'll seem easier. Since you were using cheese, it seems a lot harder.

Honestly the way you describe it is how I want Extreme to be. It's supposed to be really fucking hard. Finishing on that level should be a serious achievement not possible without some dedicated play and a dose of luck.
All those hours of playing, only to be called a cheeser by the dev.  :D

But you are correct. Since caravaning was introduced my goal has always been to set up an easily defendable colony, so I could focus on raiding the pirates. I aimed to wipe all pirates camps of the map and achieve world  peace. I never intend to actually leave the Rimworld, I want to rule it.

There was no real challenge in defending the main base anymore and once you got advanced enough the pirate camps weren't that hard either. So my interest dropped and I didn't play much last year. Now I'm back at it, cursing at the game like a newby and rethinking my strategies. So you did a very good job!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 24, 2018, 07:05:10 AM
On more Questing:

1. Idk how incapitated refugees are balanced now, but in both missions, I sent a single melee/medic pawn to save a refugee, and the only thing that ambushed me was a single scyther. Is the difficulty of quests now tied to how equipped your colonists are?

2. The new gifting mechanic is great, though it needs some balancing. It's very easy to just drop pod 40 shitty t-shirts and get on their good side.

3a. One thing that I still have not seen implemented is the use of drop pods to fulfill caravan requests. One outlander faction wanted 24 t-shirts and was willing to part with 14 advanced components to get em'. I SHOULD be able to just drop pod the whole thing, but each time I needed to send my best soldier/medic to complete the transaction. The reason of course being you need a pawn to "fulfill trade request". It would be nice, at least for outlander unions and not tribals, for me to just drop pod the stuff and they can drop pod the goodies.

It usually starts and ends with me loading the gear, my pawn, a muffalo, shoot them to the faction, and waits for three days to get him.

3b. Also related, drop pod UI is still not great. Can't see what's inside the pod, and can't easily add stuff to it. Needs more lovin'.

4. "Offer help" to the incapitated refugee was very much needed. I still see YouTubers playing on B18's sending a squad to help and said refugee walks off. It would also be nice, IMO, to be able "shackle/capture" enemies, so players don't spend time building a shack and shoving everyone in it.

5. Also would be nice if pawns can take out meds from their inventory or their animal's inventory and patch people right then and there. When you arrive by caravan, everything is on your pack animal/inventory. If you drop pod, everything drops on the floor (makes sense). Basically, Smart Medicine should be vanilla, but I understand if this is too much of a time sink to do.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 24, 2018, 07:36:00 AM
In B18, I used to get raids 3 times greater in amount of people with advanced weaponry and armory, including multiple doomsday launchers. It was Cassandra rough difficulty and results of the raid made me switch the difficulty to intense. I had a colony of 6 decent people. Any useless ones were banished.

If you keep colonists with peg legs, scratched eye and IoV, it might be a good idea to do something with them. And if you let them attack your colony avoiding turrets, it's something wrong there as turrets are replacable.

Couple fair points, but you can't always be choosy with people you get. Raid difficulty goes up regardles of you getting new pawns or not. Your luck with potential recruits can be extremely poor, as the game likes it very much to leave you severely crippled parodies to people instead of proper potential colonists. So ignoring\banishing any person that has some kind of disability, that can affect your defensive power can result in a loss just due to insufficient workforce, or whats even worse - a lack of key skills (like cooking now. its better to have a pacifist, but a  decent cook now, then have no pawn at all).

As for second point - also true, you can fast replace turrets, to get some more shots going their way, but in my experience, if the places where you install your turrets are lacking sandbags - they'll get blown up, potentially damaging other stuff and people. Plus on small and medium maps with the speed "miner" sappers annihilate your walls - you don't even have that much time to replace turrets.

So defending against sappers usually results in some cheap cheesy tactic, that feels even worse than boring killboxes - either through use of consumables (aforementioned insanity\shock lance, that disables the sapper forcing them to go into killbox or just launchers, that can pulverize half the raid in one lucky shot), or through abuse of their AI popping in and out for quick shots at the sapper, until he dies. Honestly it could use some improvement, like greatly extending the time it takes them to mine\explode through walls, so you have more time to think up some countermeasures, without having to have 5-tile wide outer walls.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 24, 2018, 08:55:57 AM
Some thoughts jogged loose by reading other feedback:
- I really don't much mind food poisoning as is. It's annoying sure, but it's also pretty temporary, and seems to come on gradually enough; Usually my pawns are only down and out for half a day at most; Mind you, I'm not playing Rich Explorer or Naked Brutality, so the severity of half a day is probably worse on those, but I had a pawn downed for food poisoning on a solo caravan, and it was annoying but survivable.
- Masterwork crafts are definitely not impossible; I made a masterwork duster, on purpose only the other day, by taking advantage of an inspiration. Inspirations seem to come often enough that I can make use of them if I'm prepared to. The only issue I have with inspirations is when I get inspirations that are irrelevant, like shooting on a guy I didn't even give a gun. I think they should maybe be a bit more easy to come by, but then I don't have a close-to-20 level crafter, so I'm good with it as is.
- Graphics-wise, I overall like the changes. Some of the non-updated stuff looks positively drab in comparison. The research bench is a good example; You can barely see the stuff on the table. A gritty survival game doesn't have to be all shades of beige... Let's leave that color palette to Bethesda, shall we? (I kid!)

Something I'd really like to see is an update to the UI. grey boxes is functional, but it feels drab. I don't think we need something overly ornate and 'flavorful', just something a bit nicer than gray boxes. The layout of stuff on the screen could use a little work as well, with only one truly egregious candidate: The info box in the lower left corner. I constantly want to see that box, but it's always covered up by the rest of the UI. Change the placement of that, and I could more than live with the rest.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NeverPire on June 24, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
I would like just to tell that boars are a little bit smarter than pigs, so I don't understand why they are moved to Intermediate and pigs stay in Advanced Intelligence.
Maybe to fix an exploit I didn't know.

(Just for information, two generations are enough to transform a boar into a pig and inversely, so their stats should be roughly equals)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 24, 2018, 09:00:34 AM
Dumb priority of repairing over building strikes again!

Raiders in drop pods right in the middle of my base and make a lot of holes in roof. Lots of gunfire, lots of damaged stuff, I win.

What my constructors do for next 3 days? They repair bullet holes everywhere. What is the problem with that? There are giant holes from drop pods in the roofs everywhere (during cold winter!) and my constructors ignore them. Good thing that I saw that and remembered about roof overlay to make manual fixing simpler. Repairing should really be shifted lower in priority list over construction and roof building or even be transfered/cloned to different work type (like basic).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lori1979 on June 24, 2018, 09:05:06 AM
not sure if a bug or intended: it used to be that if I told a pawn to "rest until healed", he would stay in bed until healed. Now every single time they get out of bed, and I have to repeat the process over and over again. Not the kind of micromanaging I would like to have.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Wanderer_joins on June 24, 2018, 09:08:56 AM
Crashlanded, Cassandra extreme, permadeath, boreal forest.
So far, so good, i like most balance changes.

* ressources are scarcier, I like that smelting steel slag chunk is a real thing on boreal forest. Maybe could we smelt simple helmets or plate armors? whatabout disassembling power armors and flak vest/ pants?

* growing times: i've been caught off guard on this one, veggies have been clearly the limiting factor so far, where meat has been enough to feed my colonists and dozen of huskies, veggies where on the table only 1/3 of the year. Same for herbal, half the playthrough i was on herbal shortage. Hydroponics seem nerfed, but it's a good thing that solar flares no longer kill the crops in seconds. But it requires more planning which is good. No problem with wood in a boreal forest.

* biome: 4 years in it looks like day one

* ships: the limited raidius to poison ships makes it irrelevant if it crashes in a remote zone of the map. I've destroyed one, the next one fell in a corner of the map for two seasons now, i don't plan to touch it, i don't know if multiple poison ship could be a thing now, but it should since you can simply ignore remote poison ships.

* mechanoids: i like the split melee/ range for scythers. It offers new strategies, and they're rather weak. Centipedes are tough, but still slow af, so you can kite them or ambush them one by one with overwhelming fire power

* mood: i enjoy the new recreation system, with various sources and one mandatory joy hour per day i've had no big trouble to fulfill recreation. Parties have been severely nerfed. Psychic drone have been buffed and are really impactful.

* raids: the most significant aspects are split raids and the fight to death behavior. It makes a real difference in difficulty vs the 50% casualties threshold to flee. 4 years in raids are still brutal on my colony. Each colonist has its role and each loss is a setback. Raiders no longer the many assault weapons and charge rifle. Which means we've to craft our own.

* weapons: health points no longer change their stats? chain shotgun is a really good short range weapon, ideal to fight sappers indoors

* diplomatic system: really nice but it seems too easy to buy goodwill with gifts

* jobs: with the colony taking much damage and broken walls, it's nice to have the icon for autorebuild, but it would also be useful to split repair/construction to be able to rebuild asap after the raid without having to micro

* economy: i'm rather poor, i crashlanded into an area without friendly outlander faction nearby and one neutral tribal faction. I started making art relatively lately and only to improve the colony, i mostly bought neutroamine and components and crafted what i needed.

* animals: only a dozen of huskies here, i haven't noticed the difference regarding training decay

* quests: much better deals, good to be able to ask for an AI core


mood:
(https://imgur.com/YQMnCs1.jpg)

wealth:
(https://i.imgur.com/Pgsmeu5.jpg)

pop:
(https://i.imgur.com/xZDq9XJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 24, 2018, 09:50:48 AM
I would like just to tell that boars are a little bit smarter than pigs, so I don't understand why they are moved to Intermediate and pigs stay in Advanced Intelligence.
Maybe to fix an exploit I didn't know.

(Just for information, two generations are enough to transform a boar into a pig and inversely, so their stats should be roughly equals)

I think is kinda obvious but Tynan is trying to balance the game for gameplay purposes, not for real life simulation. He nerfed boars cause they were better than pigs since they did more damage and provided same meat and leather and everything else, pigs were redundant. Now he balanced it so that pigs are better for hauling and boars are better for combat.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 24, 2018, 10:30:10 AM
6 components for lousy prosthetic parts? This is definitely too much. I think that 3 or 4 would be more reasonable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 24, 2018, 10:31:37 AM
Dumb priority of repairing over building strikes again!

Raiders in drop pods right in the middle of my base and make a lot of holes in roof. Lots of gunfire, lots of damaged stuff, I win.

What my constructors do for next 3 days? They repair bullet holes everywhere. What is the problem with that? There are giant holes from drop pods in the roofs everywhere (during cold winter!) and my constructors ignore them. Good thing that I saw that and remembered about roof overlay to make manual fixing simpler. Repairing should really be shifted lower in priority list over construction and roof building or even be transfered/cloned to different work type (like basic).


Tynan... get us the "Repair job" back on the Work Tab... Why you don't do this?

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=35272.0
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aerial on June 24, 2018, 10:31:51 AM
Lots of great improvements in this build. 

I really like the new art, overall.  The leather, logs and wind turbine are nice changes.  Very crisp and detailed.  Of course, now some of the older art looks kind of fuzzy in comparison.  The trees, in particular, struck me that way.  And as much as I love having the wild berry bushes, the perfect circles for the berries doesn't fit (IMO) with the rest of the aesthetic.

Love the simplified leathers! 

The opportunistic hauling has been working pretty well and is a nice addition. 

Also loving the new social thoughts.  I've giggled at a few, though I can't remember them now.  The pawns now joke about things, so it would be cool if they occasionally got a "heard a good joke" moodlet or "heard a bad joke" moodlet.

Did something change with regards to how far pawn will walk to sit and eat at a table?  I have never had issues with storing meals in the freezer right next door to my dining room.  Pawns would fetch a meal and sit down at the table to eat, no problem.  But now I have to store meals in the dining room to get them to use the table.

Also, is building floors prioritized over everything but roofs?  I want my constructors to work on flooring only when everything else is done because pretty much everything else is more important.  Floors can be filler work between other construction tasks.  Right now, I have to micro them to build a stove or a windmill or walls if there are any flooring blueprints in the area.  Or, alternately, I have to micro forbidding and unforbidding flooring whenever I put down another blueprint.  It may just be that the flooring covers a large area so it's closer to the pawn and gets selected, but it still seems like it should have a lower priority than most other things.  (This isn't new to b18.  The behavior is no different from previous builds.)

Thanks for all the hard work, Tynan!  This game is one of my all-time favorites.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 24, 2018, 10:40:13 AM
Seeing as another update is up

- Still hope that raiders being capable of self-tending will be brought back. It felt very right. It felt like they had brains... Until next update lobotomized them again.


Nope, raiders self healing is causing them to tend themselves in the open like sitting ducks. That is brain-less.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 24, 2018, 10:42:37 AM
I just wanna point out how it's a good idea that "releasing prisoners" is put under basic. Saves your social experts for more important task.

While we're at it, could we also move re/installing furniture to basic to? There's no real need to have Constructors that's working on the new rooms just to move the bed away a few tiles.

ALSO repair should really be it's own task, and deconstruction should be a higher priority than construction.

As for self tend, either raiders should should hide behind cover, or you keep that for friendly pawns.

Speaking of friendly pawns, see, one of the tribal caravans had an unfortunate incident in meleeing a centipede. I was throwing my EMP grenades at them, but then everytime it hit the tribals they lose relations. The reason is obvious, but I think throwing EMP grenades should not count as hostile.

Restricting a job to a Colonist also has yet to show passions as well. There needs a "forbid after storing" option, especially for pemmican and survival meals because we need those for travel.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: xion1088 on June 24, 2018, 10:59:22 AM
I don't know if this has been suggested already and sorry if this isn't the place to such things but it would be great if passive coolers could be forbidden so pawns don't refuel them constantly when they're not needed, it's a waste of wood for me honestly, wood in 1.0 isn't as easy to get as before.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 24, 2018, 11:09:07 AM
Nope, raiders self healing is causing them to tend themselves in the open like sitting ducks. That is brain-less.

Did they really? For me they started patching themselves up only when not engaged in combat. But i guess if thats so, it was removed due to being a potential exploit (attack, pull away, then reengage, when they started tending to themselves). Still i wish it be brought back with some fixes - like they stop tending if your colonists are too close\if they got shot at again.

Because while bandaging wounds in an open field under hail of bullets is stupid, so is getting a gaping wound from LMG or charge rifle in the chest, then just watching the red splatter, dying in couple hours, without a slight effort at survival\retreating.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aerial on June 24, 2018, 11:13:36 AM
Another change I am not sure of (intended, bug?):

Donning a parka now only seems to affect the low end of the comfortable temperature spectrum.  Is that intended?  If so, it seems odd.  My pawns were able to keep wearing parkas through a heatwave with no worse effects than those in t-shirts.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 24, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
Weird behavior, not sure if intended:

Double-clicking on a construction blueprint to multi-select them only selects exactly 80 of the blueprints, even if there are more.  Tried carpet and wall blueprints.

edit:  Ok, it does this for multi-selecting items as well.  It would be nice to be able to multi-select all of them, for example, in the case of forbidding hundreds of carpet blueprints. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 24, 2018, 12:04:23 PM
Training tab for animals show training decay intervals when you hover over that particular animal's wildness. Very useful!
I just noticed this earlier this morning, not sure how long it has been there or if it was just recently implemented but it's pretty cool imo.  8)

Also, seems once an animal is bonded training boosts to 100% no matter what lvl your animal handler is.
It took my colonist 17 days to tame a female polar bear at around 4.6% and she bonded with my colonist halfway through the training process. Normal training % chance went from 30% to 100%. At first I thought the success chance increase was influenced by the food used in training (kibble vs. raw meat) but tested it out with another polar bear that wasn't bonded and the training success chance stayed the same. Concluded that bonded animals currently train 100%, which is especially awesome for harder to train animals. Very much like!

Edit: Just got Inspired Creativity on my female colonist that has Artistic disabled.  :-[
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 24, 2018, 01:40:52 PM
There is a global bug with pawns ignoring prioritized tasks.  If you queue up anything with "prioritize", the pawn will abandon this and go back to its usual manual-ordered priority.  This is most commonly observable with pawns ignoring "rest until healed", but can be seen with any chain of queued priority tasks.  I can confirm they're not taking a break, they're directly switching away from priority tasks.

Animal AI is pretty buggy too, especially with caravans.  I had a dromedary in a canceled caravan keep careening towards the edge of the map, even ignoring eligible zones.  Even after I cancelled the caravan for absolutely everyone in the caravan, it kept ignoring zone and moved towards the edge.

This same animal died later in the run because, while awake, it ignored the fact that I zoned it into base/walls and stayed outside during a raid for 10 seconds.  Then, once they starting shooting at it the AI chose to "flee"...slightly towards the gunfire.

The tame decay thing might be controversial but the above seem pretty uncontroversially bugged to me.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: LordDaimos on June 24, 2018, 01:50:02 PM
I love the changes in 1.0 so far but I've found a few weird things.

* If a doctor is preparing to add a prosthetic to a colonist you can't override that with another doctor. There is simply no "Tend to XX (reserved by YY)" available in the context menu.
* When opening a context menu with the right menu button on 3x speed the game starts lagging a lot. I think I saw this earlier in this thread as well but I couldn't find it now.
* Went for a "Incapacitated refugee" mission and found it amongst a few sleeping mechanoids. The colonist had braindamage so I simply repacked my caravan and noticed that I could select the refugee as a part of the caravan without having to bother the mechanoids. I haven't had any more "Incapacitaged refugee" missions after this so I haven't checked if this happens otherwise.
* Caravan animals stay in the spot they entered the map when returning home, not sure how this was handled earlier but they should really head for the caravan packing spot to be unloaded instead of the colonists crossing the map several times to do it.

Running version 1.0.1943 x64 (no mods)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 24, 2018, 01:54:33 PM
Research is really off for flak to power armor progression. After getting flak accessed I noticed I can get to power armor faster than my crafter can make 1 or 2 sets of flak. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 24, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
Donning a parka now only seems to affect the low end of the comfortable temperature spectrum.  Is that intended?  If so, it seems odd.  My pawns were able to keep wearing parkas through a heatwave with no worse effects than those in t-shirts.
Clothing has always been a sort of a week spot for me, even well done parkas shouldn't act like some goddamn space suit capable of sustaining -40°C. Duster are my favorite, though they act like some sort of catchall as well. All in all though they seem to have been balanced a bit.

Research is really off for flak to power armor progression. After getting flak accessed I noticed I can get to power armor faster than my crafter can make 1 or 2 sets of flak. 
Aren't you talking about plate armor? Power amor is way up the end of the tree.

There is a global bug with pawns ignoring prioritized tasks.  If you queue up anything with "prioritize", the pawn will abandon this and go back to its usual manual-ordered priority.  This is most commonly observable with pawns ignoring "rest until healed", but can be seen with any chain of queued priority tasks.  I can confirm they're not taking a break, they're directly switching away from priority tasks.
Are you sure, I do pretty frequent uses of queued actions and haven't had any problems with them, might be just the rest thing. Besides, if you want pawns to prioritize resting, why don't just tick it in the work tab priority?

Double-clicking on a construction blueprint to multi-select them only selects exactly 80 of the blueprints, even if there are more.  Tried carpet and wall blueprints.
Might be a limitation, but you could just as well use forbid/unforbid tool.

I would like just to tell that boars are a little bit smarter than pigs, so I don't understand why they are moved to Intermediate and pigs stay in Advanced Intelligence.
Maybe to fix an exploit I didn't know.
I think is kinda obvious but Tynan is trying to balance the game for gameplay purposes, not for real life simulation. He nerfed boars cause they were better than pigs since they did more damage and provided same meat and leather and everything else, pigs were redundant. Now he balanced it so that pigs are better for hauling and boars are better for combat.
It makes a lot of sense though, pigs have been domesticated for generations while boars are wild pigs.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 24, 2018, 02:44:31 PM
My Rough/Tropical animal testing run is bugged, so I've started a new run: Tribal on Temperate Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. I figured since animal swarms are still very strong in favorable conditions, I would see how they do in middling/unfavorable conditions.

So far I've gotten very lucky on both animal handlers and fertile soil. I have good stockpiles of pemmican, rice, and some hay and kibble, and I have a solid squad of 15 or so animals, with alpacas still forming the backbone. Both potentially threatening raids were dispatched with no significant injuries to colonists.

The first winter is just about to start, and there is toxic fallout that has already lasted for 4 days. My bonded warg is starving, and I'm torn between slaughtering my other animals to feed it, or just putting it to sleep. I think I'll crack open the ancient danger first and see what comes out.

EDIT: There were mechanoids. Three scythers and two centipedes. I was prepared to barge in and swarm, but I needed to lure them out and swarm. Everybody died.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 24, 2018, 03:12:51 PM
Possible bug, alpacas don't unpack on caravan return, and still contain items that were sold during the caravan.

Sent caravan with alpacas to trade.  I sold/gifted all the cotton, devilstrand, etc to the destination settlement.

After returning to home settlement, I noticed that the alpaca's were still wearing their saddlebags.  In their gear tab, they still had all the items that I had just sold.  Plus, I'm pretty sure I also had the silver I had gotten from their sale.

The settlers returning from the caravan did not contain any cargo in their gear tab.  I'm pretty sure I heard the silver-drop sound effect when they returned, so I think they did empty their pockets.

The caravan -may- have returned at night, not sure.  Like in the change log, caravans will now move at night if they are close to their destination.

edit:  The alpaca's were also carrying the components that I had bought. 
edit2:  The chemfuel I sold was not in the alpaca's inventory when they returned, but the cotton and some of the devilstrand was.  I'll try to replicate this.

edit 3:  Couldn't replicate with a nearly identical caravan, must be crazy.  I do have this pic of an alpaca that wasn't unloaded on return.  This was on the night of the day after the caravan returned.

(https://i.imgur.com/4WgbAwB.png)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 24, 2018, 03:43:45 PM
According to the information provided, raiders bandage themselves when they are wounded and hide behind cover. Yoshida Kenji's first raider was tending during the fight which looked glitchy, but the AI just assumed that they are hiding behind a cover which is usually focused against a certain enemy pawn.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zoolder on June 24, 2018, 04:28:07 PM
1531 hour played in RW... yeah. If I am still a noob after that, maybe i should just retire.

That was a misquote, my b. But yes, I was talking about you. The situation you explained was blatantly impossible unless your wealth is whack. Not trying to rude, but please don't make up scenarios like that in an attempt to get something nerfed. I was just saying that situation you explained would never occur in the real game, even in 1.0 every engagement feels "fair" especially when you factor in AI.

And time logged is irrelevant based on what you said, so if someone with very few hours can survive fine on expert but you, with over 1500 can't, it's a you problem, not the game

Edit: I know the "man up and fight" advice was bad, my point is the situation you explained is impossible and even without a killbox you can handle pretty much any fight that game throws at you with minimal injuries just by being smart with pawn placement.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 24, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
That was a misquote, my b. But yes, I was talking about you. The situation you explained was blatantly impossible unless your wealth is whack. Not trying to rude, but please don't make up scenarios like that in an attempt to get something nerfed. I was just saying that situation you explained would never occur in the real game, even in 1.0 every engagement feels "fair" especially when you factor in AI.

And time logged is irrelevant based on what you said, so if someone with very few hours can survive fine on expert but you, with over 1500 can't, it's a you problem, not the game

Edit: I know the "man up and fight" advice was bad, my point is the situation you explained is impossible and even without a killbox you can handle pretty much any fight that game throws at you with minimal injuries just by being smart with pawn placement.

Impossible, eh? If i feel that something is unbalanced, overpowered or otherwise feels off - i'll suggest changing it. I make such statements after playing, based on my experience, not thinking up some horror stories just to get what i want. So, If you like some changes and don't want to see them reverted - voice your opinion, say it feels right and you welcome it. Don't go assuming things on your own, as i didn't happen to notice you watch me playing to make such assumptions. Unless you worked on this game as a dev and can be sure before claiming something is impossible.

I won't even start about every single fight being beatable with zero casualties without killbox or some other cheap AI exploiting tricks, like pop-in-out or trapped hallways. If you think that way - i doubt we have something else to discuss. To each their own.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Trallhatt on June 24, 2018, 05:42:12 PM
If you mine though a smoothed wall, your character will directly try to repair it.
I tried removing my character from Construction but another directly ran up instead to repair the wall and the dedicated miner went to do something else, lol.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: flightgamer on June 24, 2018, 05:43:45 PM
Been playing the unstable version and Rimworld as a whole for quite some time. A couple of humble thoughts and wishlist items.
Just for context purposes, I am a 50yo casual gamer who primarily uses my mouse (never got into hotkeys and can’t hope to have the game knowledge I am seeing elsewhere in this post so forgive me if these are previously addressed suggestions. I tried to read thru many of the other posts first.

- Many times when an AI message pops up and gives me the option to click “OK” or “Jump to Location”, I will instinctively click OK both because I am agreeing that I want to do something about it and because I am used to the bottom choice being the dismiss/close option in such windows. It would make more sense to me if the top option was “Jump to Location” and the bottom was “Dismiss”. It is annoying to hit Ok and then realize you don’t know where to look for the event on the map or the message text that has now gone away.

- Liked the old, distinctive look of silver. New large silver pile looks like an extracted molar to me.

- This comment refers to the 6 tabs (character, health, gear, etc for each character). Since I primarily use my mouse, it would be great if each of these tabs had the character name shown on top like the “character” tab does already and there were forward/back arrows on either side of the pawn name so that I could easily browse thru the stats for each character without either having to remember a hotkey or look and click on each character profile at the top of the page and then have to look back down to see the new stats. It would also work if when your mouse pointer was inside one of these tabs if the scroll wheel went thru all your characters.

- I will click on a research item to review it, double-click and assume it is selected because it is lit up and the research button I need to press isn’t even in my field of view and then I exit only to lose valuable research time before figuring out what I did wrong.

- I can see food poisoning making a colonist bed-ridden but having two separate pawns collapse in the field far from home on separate occasions? Please no. 

- When I tried to tell my researcher to research I received a “research is a long-term item” message which I didn’t understand for some time until I realized that it just couldn’t be forced but would still happen. If text could be a bit clearer on this. Maybe something like “Research will occur automatically once selected and a pawn is assigned under the work tab; however, it cannot be forced”.

- During combat, I really want to start using the stats where you highlight your shooter and then mouse over the enemy. However, it is not clear if I am looking at the chance of hitting him or me from him. Is that his cover stat or mine from his position? Confusing text for me.

- If you can create two separate but adjacent growing zones without having them join up automatically for the life of me I don’t know how.

- In the work tab wasn’t it previously possible to decide who should negotiate for you? A social column maybe? Am I just missing something now?

- When I want to create a new area and go to the associated screen, I click on “new area”. Unless I remembered to look at the list first and take mental roll call I have no idea what was created. For example if the list already had an Area 1, did I just create Area 2 or a new Area 1 and make Area 1 into Area 2. Highlighting the new area maybe with a bit of a flashing would clear up which one is brand new for renaming, for instance.

This is now, by far, my favorite game and topping my RCT or Alpha Centauri playing time is no small feat. thx!!!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 24, 2018, 06:02:19 PM

- Many times when an AI message pops up and gives me the option to click “OK” or “Jump to Location”, I will instinctively click OK both because I am agreeing that I want to do something about it and because I am used to the bottom choice being the dismiss/close option in such windows. It would make more sense to me if the top option was “Jump to Location” and the bottom was “Dismiss”. It is annoying to hit Ok and then realize you don’t know where to look for the event on the map or the message text that has now gone away.


You can now click on the History tab then Messages. From there you can view old letters and messages that you might have missed in greater detail. ^.^
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Golden on June 24, 2018, 06:56:48 PM
- If you can create two separate but adjacent growing zones without having them join up automatically for the life of me I don’t know how.


The merging of zones only happens if the first one has been selected, is "glowing" or lighted.  Then the game assumes you are extending that active zone.  There is also a new button choice when a specific zone is chosen, to deliberately extend that zone, growing or area or storage, etc.

If you deselect a zone (for example, by clicking elsewhere on the screen), or close the growing zone placer and then reactivate it, you can place two or more zones next to each other.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 24, 2018, 07:07:42 PM
The merging of zones only happens if the first one has been selected, is "glowing" or lighted.

That's not exactly true. If you start a new grow zone and have it overlap an existing one before you've properly created the new zone, it'll assume you're extending more often than not.

My strategy is to start a new zone that doesn't touch the existing zone, then expand it to the edge of the existing zone. I do the same thing when I create smaller stockpiles touching larger, like if I want to put a certain type of resource in a specific location, like human meat in my freezer; I did this when I had a warg so it could go to that spot, but not take everything else in the freezer. Worked well.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 24, 2018, 07:16:52 PM
Anyone else experience a hoard of events such as this? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421683077
I'm playing on latest unstable version, CC Rough NB. My events have seemed pretty normal, usually 2-3 events on a given day, until around the 14th of Decembary.

Here's a shot of the graph on my current save: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421687294
Currently at 13k wealth. I was around the same wealth on another save, around the same time in game as well but never got this many events on that save.

On a side note: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421683153
At first I thought she was male with a name like Mike and that hairstyle. I check the character tab and her full name is Michael "Mike" Hunt. lol.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Crow_T on June 24, 2018, 07:17:32 PM
Some feedback:
 As a player who usually uses mods playing vanilla feels pretty good, the only thing that doesn't seem to be working is the better hauling, I feel the mod in B18 was more effective.

I did my first caravan! It was 12 t-shirts for a legendary smg, silver table, and a decent bowler. Of course I got raided after I got back, the guy with the smg got downed, and I think the raiders stole it? That is just plain mean haha.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: wgiverrimworld on June 24, 2018, 08:02:51 PM
First-time poster.  Funny glitch that is now more noticeable with deciduous trees changing color in the fall.  If you get a cold snap that drops temps sufficiently, all the foliage drops and you have barren trees.  But if the cold snap ends, and you're still in the fall, suddenly the trees regain all their yellow and orange colors.  Perhaps there's a way for the game to calculate how many days are left in the season during a cold snap so that once leaves drop past the start of fall, they don't re-emerge until the spring?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Snafu_RW on June 24, 2018, 08:50:01 PM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.

It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.
Apologies for the spam quotes; I'll figure out how to remove them sometime..
Anyway, my points are:
Centipede insta-death = good (shutdown was a PITA) unless deterioration (affecting mech corpses) remains a thing: pawns need those resources!
Scyther insta-seath/not dropping weps: OK, but (following on from your other posts) it may be an option to retreive & then /equip/ a scyther blade (rather than 'install' via surgury) as a clumsy (but high dmg) melee wep, or deconstruct it for adv components with a (v low) %age chance? Sale money could be reduced to 50% -> 25% of its B18 value (or somesuch), reducing that OP cash dispenser you mentioned
Likewise centipede deconstruction could have a (low, naturally) chance to drop adv components depending upon deterioration (reintroduce shutdown to reduce deterioration? That may make sense..)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 24, 2018, 08:52:00 PM
I played a few starts with and without a river to compare how much the watermill helps and I think it still is really strong.
The main reason is the constant power output for no ongoing costs. Especially since batteries need to be researched now. It's a bit weird that the watermill can be built without research, but solar generators need one and need batteries to have constant power. It would feel better when solar and wind are available at the start (both not constant power supply for no ongoing cost) and the water needs research. (I know it's not really realistic that way, but balancing should be more important than realism.)

Also the watermill can be built on bridges, that means one can even build more. I don't know it this is intended, but maybe they should be heavy structures.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 24, 2018, 10:02:33 PM
Quote
Are you sure, I do pretty frequent uses of queued actions and haven't had any problems with them, might be just the rest thing. Besides, if you want pawns to prioritize resting, why don't just tick it in the work tab priority?

100% certain.  I have video footage of it.  Pathing is buggy too, sometimes pawns are allowed to pass beside/through pawns in only one direction, leading to unanticipated outcomes that make no sense.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Snafu_RW on June 24, 2018, 10:11:51 PM

- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.
- Also I'll still be nagging about item quality - masterwork and legendary shouldn't be quests only. Sure it does add more incentive to go and try some quests. But if in earlier version you could incredibly slowly but reliably make masterwork or legendary beds for your guys for example. In this version max you can hope for is excellent even lategame with a god-like builder. And with quests you never really can get what you really want, only what random gives after you fight 10 people armed to the teeth with your 3 hobos.

Overall - great update. Centipede armor nerf and scyther buff was badly required good stuff. Melee-shot thingy was removed - another great decision, since it all but disabled any use melee in the game had. I really like how melee was a high risk, high reward thing, with you disabling and putting at a disadvantage otherwise technologically superior enemies.
Hmm..
WRT food poisoning, I've personally (unfortunately) experienced the extremes both ways IRL bar hospitalisation. Severe FP can make you unable to do anything except crawling to bed & then flopping there for a couple of days with frequent loo trips if you can make it that far (even 15 feet!): it's /extremely/ debilitating.. altho shouldn't happen in the middle of a battle IMO! Mild FP makes vomit & diahorrea likely but can be alleviated with plenty of hydration within a day or so & doesn't incapacitate (altho work rate will be slowed considerably). Extreme food poisoning may well kill due to related effects (usually dehydration, altho other effects also play a part). Meds will reduce duration but not stop the effect instantly

Food poisoning from berries makes a certain amount of sense: mild FP can be gained from eating unripe and/or uncooked veggies/fruit (or spoiled/raw meat ofc); extreme FP may be from gathering the wrong 'food' (the classic example is mistaking hemlock (deadly nightshade) berries for blackcurrants, along with mushroom misidentification) - incidentally why are briars/brambles/blackberries in-game description plant types but not listed as a (berry) food source? Rasberry canes grow naturally on the edge of woodlands (slightly shaded), while briars/brambles/blackberries grow almost anywhere..

WRT masterwork quality: I feel that this should be attainable by master crafters (L15+?) at a low %age; however, legendary quality shouldn't be attainable unless inspired. The RL parallel is that the apprentice/journeyman creates a 'master work' to prove to their master that they are capable of creating <things> independantly of their master, freeing them from implicit bondage & allowing them to become a free worker, to live on their own merits

WRT 'melee shoot', perhaps a limiter could be introduced? So pawns equipped with rifles won't opportunistically shoot 'enemies' if 'melee attack' button is explicitly activated? That would seem to be a reasonable compromise: a rifle-equipped pawn explicitly set to melee won't shoot the friendly they're trying to arrest, while still being able to shoot active hostiles within range..?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Injured Muffalo on June 24, 2018, 10:40:51 PM
- During combat, I really want to start using the stats where you highlight your shooter and then mouse over the enemy. However, it is not clear if I am looking at the chance of hitting him or me from him. Is that his cover stat or mine from his position? Confusing text for me.

It is. If your colonist is selected, the mouse shows his chance to hit a live target after deductions are made. If you select an enemy the mouse shows their chance to do the same.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: YoruOokami on June 24, 2018, 10:45:54 PM
I haven't read the last 3 pages so I apologise if someone's mentioned this in detail before.
Predators seem a bit broken at the moment, the slightest injury leads to infection leads to death quickly. Predators always get injuries from their prey (Bites/scratches) and seem to always die, I'm barely 22 days into a colony and most of the predators on the map are dead to this already except the ones that steal from my food stock on occasion. I'd propose that predators that have the ability to get infections have them disabled, until(if) they are tamed by the colony or traders etc. Its not going to intrude on game-play, it would likely make predators an actual threat again which is a good thing.

Love all the new art by the way! finally getting a chance to see some of it, especially that chemfuel refinery is amazing looking.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 24, 2018, 11:26:49 PM
I've started a new animal swarm run. Tribal, Boreal Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. This time there are no alpacas! I am devastated. How can I train an Alpaca Strike Force without Alpacas?!

I've just survived the first winter and my new rice crop is about to come in. I have 27 animals, even split of muffalos and boars+random. Since the muffalos can't be trained for release anymore, it's more of a... Mob... than a Strike Force. The best configuration I've found is to have the muffalos follow my melee colonists' charge, and then pull the colonists back from raiders with melee weapons. With this, combat is interesting again. I still win fights convincingly, but my colonists take some real injuries. There were two threatening sieges. I had to charge one across an open field, and that was bloody (one downed colonist, 3-4 dead animals). For the other I hid behind a wall while they built two mortars, then charged with most of the distance already closed. That was an easier fight.

Food was a little touch-and-go by the end of winter. I had stockpiled several thousand pemmican/kibble/hay/etcetera, but muffalos eat sooo much. Luckily, I could let the boars munch on raider corpses, and there were plenty of herding animals. I had to feed some packaged survival meals to starving muffalos, but I have not had to slaughter any animals. I did get some event notifications of lapsed training. One per animal every 7.5 -10 days means a non-trivial chunk of a trainer's time must be maintenance. But that seems fine. Once I have food again, I'll still be able to expand the Mob. I'll just have to grow a much bigger plot of haygrass this year.

(Side note: I've produced two masterwork items from random constructing - a pigskin chair and a wooden bed. The constructor was level 10ish, I think. No inspiration involved.)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 24, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
I also agree that watermills are a bit too overpowered. I really haven't built any batteries, solar panels, or wind turbines since their release. I think a good balance would create a force distance between each one. As it stands now I can just build like 10 of these across the river and on top of the river with bridges and never have power problems.

Later on when I am using more turrets maybe I'll throw in a couple wind turbines that flick a switch into a few batteries then disconnect the batteries from the grid so I never get zztt incidencies.  But I could probably just expand my base over the river more and build more watermills instead.

If they gave a power output of 1450 but had a forced min distance of 5-10 tiles that would mean you could power a sun lamp with two of them and use third for normal stuff and fitting 30 tiles of river in your base isnt un reasonable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 25, 2018, 12:10:02 AM
I've started a new animal swarm run. Tribal, Boreal Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. This time there are no alpacas! I am devastated. How can I train an Alpaca Strike Force without Alpacas?!

Alpaca Strike Force sounds more cute than threatening. Muffalo mob on the other hand... I love the idea of animal strike forces but unfortunately I could never grow one as large as the ones you raise. My favorite biome happens to be tundra and the most animals I was able to keep fed on that biome was around 10. A couple of muffalos, alpacas (mainly for caravan) and 6 polar bears. You should post a screenshot of your Muffalo mob when you have time, I'd like to see it.  :)

I was curious about the new "Wild Man" event when I read about it in the notes.

Finally got my first encounter 68 days into this new save!
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198059850157/screenshots/
Although the message said "Wild man wanders in", she's a little lady just 15 years old. Said she has a 10% chance to attack upon failed attempts but since she's incapable of violence, why not? Plus, she's butt naked with just her fists. I think Kent should be okay. I could really use a researcher since none of my other colonists have passion for it.

Edit: Failed to "tame" her for several days. Decided to arrest her instead since she was hurting herself by hunting rabbits for food.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MikeLemmer on June 25, 2018, 01:13:15 AM
Recreation tolerance seems broken. Before I built a Horseshoes Pin, Social tolerance reached 99% and colonists would just eternally socialize. Now that I've built the Horseshoes, both tolerances are hovering at 80%. I think I'll have to build a Chess Table just to make recreation effective again.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 01:19:31 AM
New build is going up! Various further rebalancings and changes. Your existing watermills will be repositioned and stop working - sorry.

Raw change log:
----
Watermill generator requires a 5-wide line of moving water instead of 3-wide.
Fix: Def direction of watermill generator is reversed.
Corrected nutrient paste dispenser def direction and cleaned up some of the art.
Watermill size (4,5) -> (5,6). Including art upscale.
Reordered skills and defined the order in defs so mods can insert skills anywhere.
Fix: Packaged survival meal now has no research prerequisite.
Rename skill: “growing” -> “plants”.
Reduced soaking wet thought impact 10 -> 6. Adjusted text to hint about bridges.
Minor trait commonality adjustments.
Add hediff debug command now shows all HediffDefs on the first page.
Reduced food poisoning impact to no longer down the pawn, but rather slow him and put him in pain.
Fix 3458: Damaged graphic for side-rotated 1x2 table is offset from the table graphic
Humans can now drop their terrain-source filth several times.
Added trash as a variant of human filth.
Change difficulty labels to the traditional ones.
Rearranged construction work priorities. Repair is below construct, and other changes.
Crashlanded scenario now starts with 10 wake-up.
Adjust GiveUpExit mental break text.
Gift silver for one goodwill 20 -> 25.
Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Adjusted multi-analyzer art match other table types in style (i.e. tabletop fills cells).
Mining against constructed structures is now much slower than mining against natural walls. This will slow down sappers and insects when they’re digging through your defenses.
Remove construction skill requirement for passive cooler.
Allow opportunistic haul for pawns with hauling work disabled. Loosed up distance limits on opportunistic hauling. Refactor opportunistic haul tunings into new AITuning class.
Rename some classes Tunings -> Tuning
Reduce max world feature text size. When there are giant oceans it was making insanely huge text that Z-fights. Slightly reduced mid-tier feature size as well.
Minor rebalances to trade requests.
Fix: Unnecessary decimals on money amounts in trade request letter.
Debuff trade quest rewards 200%~300% -> 180%~260%.
Buff sandbags 60%->65% coverage.
Clarify skill descriptions.
Marble now has +1 beauty offset. So marble walls have 1 beauty. It’s still the weakest stone type.
Increase theshold for bionic uneasiness from 2 parts to 3 parts.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 01:51:24 AM
A lot of this looks fantastic...I'll do my best to keep up mid week but time is of course more constrained! 

I have to say, the raider AI puts up a bit more of a fight.  I've adjusted accordingly, but error margin is a bit less.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Revshawn on June 25, 2018, 01:58:07 AM
Great changes! Especially the change with the passive cooler. No more dying to random heat waves because your solo colonist doesn't have high construction!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MikeLemmer on June 25, 2018, 02:14:34 AM
I found this bug just before the new build got put up, but it looks like a colonist's equipped Revolver just disappeared. I think swapping rapidly back & forth between equipping a Wood Log caused it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: FrozenSnowFox on June 25, 2018, 02:14:43 AM
Quote
Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Finally tribals can impress offworlders with their scientific knowledge of constructing nutrient paste dispensers.  You may want to revert this one.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ChJees on June 25, 2018, 02:25:24 AM
Quote
Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Finally tribals can impress offworlders with their scientific knowledge of constructing nutrient paste dispensers.  You may want to revert this one.
Hahaha, should be required to at least have Electricity researched to use it :P.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 25, 2018, 02:26:17 AM
Nutrient Paste Dispenser requires no research?

Looks like goop is back on the menu, boys!


As an aside: this is (and has been) an incredible process to watch unfold.   
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 02:37:49 AM
Recreation tolerance seems broken. Before I built a Horseshoes Pin, Social tolerance reached 99% and colonists would just eternally socialize. Now that I've built the Horseshoes, both tolerances are hovering at 80%. I think I'll have to build a Chess Table just to make recreation effective again.

This sounds exactly correct.

The more sources you have, the more variance the colonists get, the less they'll build up tolerance, the less joy time they need.

You should build a chess table.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: SihvMan on June 25, 2018, 02:59:19 AM
Suggestion: Ocean water should be a valid area for a watermill. Wave motion can power generator just as easily as river flow.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Wanderer_joins on June 25, 2018, 03:52:10 AM
This one is rather old, but since mood has to be managed slightly tighter in 1.0 (drones, parties, fine meals etc...), the colonist died and banished to death mood debuffs could be somewhat scaled to time spent in the colony.

It's -6 for 3 days for the whole colony simply because a guy who instantly joined during a rescue mission died seconds later. Could be -3 for "rookie colonist died" or something, based on time spent as colonist.

Also still talking advantage of the records, the debuff or flavour of the description could take into account the total kills for storytelling, like "we've just lost our best fighter (52 kills), we're in trouble" or other records. I always enjoy reading the records of my colonists and thinks their storytelling potential could be exploited further.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 25, 2018, 04:25:13 AM
- Like the food poison change. Mood and pain penalties are harsh, but fair, since you feel like crap if you managed to eat something... wrong. I'll mod it to be treatable for my run though. I'd like to have a way to shorten it a bit with power of medicine.
- Glad to see enemy miners slowed down. It was real strange to see them work better than grenades.
- I actually like the recreation changes, as in previous betas it wasn't really a major change, going from horseshoes and chess tables to television, poker and billiards. I kind of wish that there was some more activities and facilities for recreation. Though that one s easily fixed by mods.

One question:
Didn't quite make it to bionics yet in 1.0, whats the deal with "bionic uneasiness"? They now get whiny, when you replace lost limbs with scientific miracles? I get the idea, when body purists and prosthetic haters complain - yeah, fine, but normal people should welcome being non-crippled again?

Why a nerf to already rare and expensive thing, you can't get for just anyone? With the amount of limbs and organs sent flying by gunfire, i can't fathom, why would you make that change. Player wastes astronomical amounts of money\crafting materials\crafter's labor time, only to get one more pissy colonist prone to minor\major breaks?

Only thing that comes to mind - its to counter people making bionic terminators out of their colonists. I don't think thats a problem to be fixed, but fine, ok, make them complain only in cases where it was a healthy body part that was replaced then.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 04:41:26 AM
normal people should welcome being non-crippled again?

They do welcome being non-crippled; what they don't welcome is turning into an inhuman freak to accomplish that.

Also, many of the implants have nothing to do with curing being crippled.

It only happens if you've got 3 or more artificial parts.

Transhumanist uneasiness with 'loss of humanity' is a common part of many stories. See Deus Ex: HR for one example.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Polder on June 25, 2018, 04:51:09 AM
The cannibal trait might be too common now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 04:59:47 AM
The cannibal trait might be too common now.

I didn't touch it since B18; sample size. (In fact it'll be less common since a few others were tuned up).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 25, 2018, 05:48:16 AM
Maybe you should add a limit in how much you can buy goodwill with silver and trade. For example, with silver you could buy up to 70 and with trade up to 80, and would have to get the last one with quests.

Have you considered joining plant cut and growing? Putting plant cut after growing.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 25, 2018, 06:21:18 AM
Some more feedback from me while playing:

-The need to re-taim animals fees nice. Although I only had a few animals.

"Change difficulty labels to the traditional ones."
- I see the reason behind it, but it looks really boring now and the old names really gave Rimwold difficulties a unique touch. Maybe just add traditional names in the tooltip.

"Rearranged construction work priorities. Repair is below construct, and other changes."
- Thanks for this, it was really needed.

"Crashlanded scenario now starts with 10 wake-up."
- It makes the start a lot easier and I think it wasn't really needed. It would help new players, but for new people who don't know how addiction tolerances work, it really gives the danger of an addiction and the potentional to fuck up their game with withdrawl and mental breaks.

"Adjusted multi-analyzer art match other table types in style (i.e. tabletop fills cells)."
- It's weird in general that the tabletop fills the cells. Logically it would be the table foot area that fills the cells. (See screenshot attached)

"Allow opportunistic haul for pawns with hauling work disabled."
- I don't see the logic behind this. These pawns don't haul, so why do they suddenly haul when going somewhere else. Also can be abused to let them haul everything with a lot of placing stockpiles. (It's a lot micro and imo noth worth it, but in special situations it might make a huge difference.)

- The rearranges skill order is weird, mainly because we are really accustomed to the old. But I think having medical and social near fighting was a good logical order. My ideas:
1: Shooting, Melee, Medical, Social, Animals, Plants, Cooking, Crafting, Artistic, Construction, Mining, Intellectual (An order of more similar skills being next to each other. Like Social and Animal, Cooking and Crafting)
2: Shooting, Melee, Medical, Social, Animal, Cooking, Construction, Plants, Mining, Crafting, Artistic, Intellectual (Order of work priorities to keep that in the same style.)
(If you don't want to change this, it would be nice to hear your reasoning / logical order behind the new skill order.)

- I played a few naked survival extreme games and it was a nice challenge so far. Sure a few totally random things can end the game, but I see that as a part of this.

- Colonists regulary wander in water when doing recreation stuff like walking around or cloudwatching. I also let corpses lying around far away and the colonist walked all the way there during recreation also over the river. Result was full recration and -19 mood which was really dumb.

Otherwise I like a lot of the changes. Especially mood debuffs for turning common colonists into cyborgs and the new recreation system. It feels good to now need more diversity.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 25, 2018, 07:48:56 AM
I can't load the game, screen just turns all black and then I return to my Steam account.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 08:13:37 AM
I agree with using the older names for difficulty. It loses flavour and signatureness for a bit of accessibility that I personally think that's not worth it.

Also ultratech back to glitterworld meds please. Glitterworld, it's super unique. Ultratech, not so much.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: rkade8583 on June 25, 2018, 08:18:22 AM
Can I request a tool to allow me to mine an entire node? Or make steel easier to see? As is, I'm having to dev-mode it to mine full nodes and, frankly, steel is way harder to see than it needs to be (especially around granite and sandstone at least for me. I have the same problem with Uranium and Marble.)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 25, 2018, 08:24:38 AM
I've gotten to bionics in my play through. I respect the -mood for too many attachments. I can easily see getting everyone super human like in a sort time. Now I have to proactively save this to compliment their skills and save spots for injuries.

I would really like some bionic to cure frail. Since the other complimenting old age trait is bad back and can be fixed.

The wake up early on for the crash landing is a great idea. Since it is suppose to be a easier training scenario. This teaches people the huge worth they have for many things and addiction can be managed. For my first 300 hours I just sold all my drugs. But go go juice and wake up is critical for some extreme scenarios and I believe it is what people are lacking when they complain it is too difficult for certain carvan missions.

Seems like you've cured 90% of the communities problems. I bet your to do list for a full release is almost here 😀. There really isn't much to cry about now. Just unique things people prefer that mods can deal with.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 08:26:45 AM
I noticed moving furniture is now under basic, though the tooltip doesn't say it.

Really appreciate that, Tynan!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 25, 2018, 08:37:28 AM
They do welcome being non-crippled; what they don't welcome is turning into an inhuman freak to accomplish that.

Also, many of the implants have nothing to do with curing being crippled.

It only happens if you've got 3 or more artificial parts.

Transhumanist uneasiness with 'loss of humanity' is a common part of many stories. See Deus Ex: HR for one example.

Oh, Deus Ex. "I didn't ask for this." I kind of hate how moping Jensen is, so I hoped things like that won't make an appearance. Now you can get your bionic superdoctor, but at the cost of him being either all whiny, or a cocaine addict. Oh, well. Yayo it is then, followed by exile, once chemical damage settles in.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Antaios on June 25, 2018, 09:08:54 AM
The wake up early on for the crash landing is a great idea. Since it is suppose to be a easier training scenario. This teaches people the huge worth they have for many things and addiction can be managed. For my first 300 hours I just sold all my drugs. But go go juice and wake up is critical for some extreme scenarios and I believe it is what people are lacking when they complain it is too difficult for certain carvan missions.

As someone who sets everyone to 'no drugs', and deletes the other policies at the start of every game, I'm mostly indifferent to this wake-up.
I'll just add "Burn Wake-Up" to the list of drug stuff I do at the start of the game.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 25, 2018, 09:25:07 AM
I found a few problems with work priorities (unless it's intended).

- Pawn with multiple bleeding wounds are getting tended from a medic and stand up (which cancels tending) to go and pick up a meal to their inventory.

- Medic with medic work priority set to 1 prefers eating or recreation instead of tending bleeding pawns (even that their needs aren't empty, just at the edge to the first (smaller) mood debuff)

- Door cheese of melee raids works too good: 1 enemy is fighting 1 or 2 are igniting or destroying something and 10 stand around doing nothing.

I can provide more information if you need.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
1.0 seems to have changed animal vision range for food.  In the winter, this lets every squirrel, rat, and muffalo beeline across the map, through player defenses, and attempt to eat simple meals.

On reflection I'm thinking this is probably not ideal.  While it can be a mild nuisance in some situations, you can just shut the door for those.  In the vast majority of cases, animals congregating into base to this extent makes it open season on very time-efficient draft hunting, complete with access to doors and pathing manipulation to make the odd revenge less threatening.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 25, 2018, 10:37:07 AM
I've never thought of leaving food in an open area.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 10:45:45 AM
I've never thought of leaving food in an open area.

You don't have to, they will target it as long as they have a valid path through open doors, doesn't seem to matter how many doors.

This can of course even be used to "bait" them into freezer since the only time this manifests is winter (herbivores don't have grass to eat).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 25, 2018, 10:49:22 AM
1.0 seems to have changed animal vision range for food.  In the winter, this lets every squirrel, rat, and muffalo beeline across the map, through player defenses, and attempt to eat simple meals.

On reflection I'm thinking this is probably not ideal.  While it can be a mild nuisance in some situations, you can just shut the door for those.  In the vast majority of cases, animals congregating into base to this extent makes it open season on very time-efficient draft hunting, complete with access to doors and pathing manipulation to make the odd revenge less threatening.

Had a raider destroy my fridge the other day.  There's about 9 rats and several squirrels getting into my food inside my base.  I think you're right how players may take advantage cause the thought came across my mind when it happened. At the same time, it's kind of funny to see and appreciate so I hope it doesn't get removed.

EDIT:
---------------------------------

You don't have to, they will target it as long as they have a valid path through open doors, doesn't seem to matter how many doors.

Didn't know it went that far.  Yeah, they probably gonna do something about that. lol
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 11:07:01 AM
You know how during raids, the player has their colonists set up for battle, but then you realise that the raiders/mechanoids are taking too long, and you undraft them, they try to eat their food, but then you draft them again, and you have a bunch of simple meals lying around your bunker?

Would it be possible for the colonist to just ... put em' back in their inventory?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 11:14:00 AM
You know how during raids, the player has their colonists set up for battle, but then you realise that the raiders/mechanoids are taking too long, and you undraft them, they try to eat their food, but then you draft them again, and you have a bunch of simple meals lying around your bunker?

Would it be possible for the colonist to just ... put em' back in their inventory?

This is an interesting point.  I'd lean on suggesting picking up things within weight in general.

My reason for this is that if you want to haul say three stripped outfits from the edge of the map, it is possible to order a caravan with these, then after a pawn picks up 5+ items delete the zone and cancel it.  If we're going to allow this sort of thing it'd be more convenient to skip the pretense and allow inventory pick-up similar to how it works for generated raid encounters.

And actually, right now you can order the pawns into a caravan, draft them and pick up the meals --> cancel caravan...but you can't just do this w/o caravan mechanic.  Meanwhile, that pawn who can't haul will still drag an elephant the length of several buildings by herself to butcher it :D.  It's silly.

You can do some pretty crazy plays with this especially early on if you're up for the micro.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 25, 2018, 11:25:36 AM
Interesting change:  crafting table interaction spots can be blocked by other walk-able objects (tables, shelves, tool cabinets, other workbenches, etc) and still be usable.  If it hasn't been mentioned, workbenches are now movable.

In theory you could pack your workshops even tighter now, as long as you don't desire chairs for the interaction spots.

+1 for 'Glitter'.  Glitter is unique and iconic to RW IMO, and the term is a nice opposite to the grittyness of the rimworlds.  Also, Ultratech already exists in Killer Instinct.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 25, 2018, 11:29:54 AM
I find it weird how tribalwear has superior insulation and similar levels of protection to basic-tier industrial clothing (e.g. t-shirt, pants), but is also cheaper.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 25, 2018, 12:36:17 PM
Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?

You could make your colonists take all the wake-up in the first couple days, and really get a head start on your first structures/mining.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: rdshen on June 25, 2018, 12:36:38 PM
Hey I've been playing with 1.0 and I've noticed a couple things. 2 I would call a bug and 1 is a frustration.

1. Doctors rarely doctor without my prioritizing. Doctors should still doctor even if they're assigned to 'sleep' or 'joy' and even if their needs are below 1/3. As it is right now I have a doctor who watches TV to full recreation and goes to sleep while someone is bleeding out in 6 hours.
2. Patients should also prioritize resting faster. I run into the same issues of someone bleeding out in 10 hours playing with the horseshoe pin for 2 hours.

3. Pawns are often not great about efficiently working on bills. Let me explain.
In a later game colony I've got two primary smiths, two secondary smiths (work after growing/construction are done), two fabrication benches and a machining bench.
Both of the fabrication benches have bills assigned to primary smiths only, and maintenance bills assigned to everyone. (components up to x)
The machining table has maintenance bills only (flak pants, vest, smokepop, shield belts all to 1)

The expected behavior is that the primary smiths work on their assigned bills until those bills are done, and then they move on to the lower priority bills or to the machining bench. The secondary smiths are expected to work on the machining table when possible, and make components when the primary smiths' bills are done or when they're asleep.

The observed behavior contains the two following issues:
1. Primary smiths will choose to work on the machining bench or the wrong fabrication table, despite having half completed bills on the correct bench, or specifically assigned bills on that table.
2. Secondary smiths will choose to work on the fabrication table when the machining table is open, and they will 'reserve' the fabrication table for most of the day. Often times they'll jump in while the primary smiths are eating.

The effect is my important bills don't get done, and without the labor from those bills my primary smiths run out of things to do. Despite having 3-6 unfinished bills on the fabrication benches, the secondary smiths will reserve the entire bench for a low priority bill for days if I don't micromanage. This is very annoying when I'm aiming for 20 smithing. The current solution is to remove 'making components' from the fabrication benches and build a new fabrication bench to handle those. Then assign on a per colonist bases the machining benches' maintenance bills, which is not a good solution because it's not consistent which secondary smith can work when, and because the primary smiths might not have big bills to work on at times, and I want them doing maintenance bills at those times.

Suggested Changes
-Pawns should prioritize bills that they have already started, provided a higher priority bill that they can satisfy does not exist on the same bench.
-Pawns should prioritize bills that have their name attached, provided a higher priority bill that they can satisfy does not exist on the same bench.
-Pawns should be able to preempt other pawns, and boot the other off of a workbench if they can satisfy a bill higher in priority than the bill the other is working on, and that the other is unable to satisfy.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 01:09:00 PM
+1 for the crafting. My best crafter at level 15 I want to focus on crafting stuff with qualities (armor, clothes, weapons) but she runs to and fro the tailoring and the machining bench and the component assembly  despite the fact I assigned her to the machining but seeing as she's only one who can makr advanced components, she goes back and forth on the matter.

"Locking" them to one job even if they can do others would help ensure that other crafters can level up their crafting on non-quality stuff (components, grenades, prosthesis, etc)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 01:22:28 PM
Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?

You could make your colonists take all the wake-up in the first couple days, and really get a head start on your first structures/mining.

Getting addicted to wake-up the first few days make me think twice if it's a good start :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 25, 2018, 01:37:44 PM
There are so many ways to make sure your colonist don't take the wake up drug. Easiest is just to forbid the item. Second if you can't be bothered to destroy the drugs just never un forbid it in the first place and let it rot outside.

Third is setting up no drugs on everyone. But my preferred method is scheduled drugs on everyone for mood drugs and turning off social drugs on anything that is extremely combat/situation specific like wakeup and go go juice.

Drugs are extremely useful in this game if used correctly lead to so many advantages. If used poorly they have the harshest set backs.

You've never been in a raid before that caused you to be low on food needing you to have your cook stay up the entire night. Or a sapper group hits right when everyone is a sleep. Same situations for carvans. Maybe addiction  UI should give a warning so you learn to control its use a little more, but I can use every drug in the game besides luci without any addictions besides on the chemical interest guys.

If I have a chemical interest guy ( I usually don't accept them) I just forbid all my drugs and manually turn them on when I see they are needed.

I do think it is extremely stupid pets can eat your forbidded drugs. Tbh I haven't seen it happen in 1.0 yet so I pray it was just a beta 18 thing.


To also speak on job priority. I'm kinda just biting my tongue on it because I know fluffy's work tab will fix all these issues. To me this game is extremely frustrating to play without every single aspect of fluffy's work tab. I need at the minimum 1-7 job #s instead of 1-4. I need the ability to tell one crafter to do medicine crafting before growing but not make stone blocks until after that. Or simpler things like train a chief by lowering butchering on one of them and making the trainee chief butcher before they do anything.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 01:59:01 PM
In B18 pets would leave their allowed areas to take drugs, very obnoxious.

Haven't had many pets in 1.0 yet, mostly self-tame fodder.  NB type starts don't give you much time for animals initially.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: CrowSR on June 25, 2018, 03:03:53 PM
Anyone noticed the bug where when you try to make a pawn destroy a smoothed natural stone wall, he mines it until it almost breaks and then repairs it to full?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 25, 2018, 03:21:56 PM
Anyone noticed the bug where when you try to make a pawn destroy a smoothed natural stone wall, he mines it until it almost breaks and then repairs it to full?

It has been mentioned a lot of times. Devs are most likely trying to fix it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 25, 2018, 03:23:51 PM
Your existing watermills will be repositioned and stop working - sorry.
Oh no! Goddamn Tynan, I foresee problems, I had my watermill carefully placed in a river cave, tight between cave walls and a narrow path...
Anyway its interesting to see that they require a free river path, I had no clue about that, maybe make it more obvious? But I really think the way to balance them is making a variable output, since they're essentially the same technology as windmills, that is, converting natural kinetic power into electricity. The only reason they were more reliable, is because they could funnel it, since water had no where else to go, where as wind has the whole atmosphere to escape to, so having variable output seems like ideal, something more steady than wind, and that has higher average during rainy seasons than drier seasons.

Also here is another list of pointers, again from the previous build.


On another note, let em share a story, regarding difficulty, on Phoebe Rough (began Randy but changed midway).
Difficulty seems to be much finely tuned now, even if on this mode, there seems problems with actual threats and more difficulty on the survival aspect instead. For example, I'm now at the end of the third year, and every winter is a struggle, barely scrapping by, this third year is the hardest with a toxic hitting it midwinter. So there is no more hunt left on the map, and since most wild animals insta rot there was little use there, I cannot let my (now big in number) herding animals graze outside, so they're on the verge of toxic build-up and starvation, my colonist barely scrapping by with whatever simple meals we have left, if it were not for a stock up stash of pemmican and a indoor growbed. I'm literally counting the hours for toxic fallout to end, hoping that a orbital trader comes by before I need to start butchering my herd.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 25, 2018, 03:26:48 PM
Gotta say it. I expected improvements when it comes to controlling pawns. 
Hopefully there are plans for adding stuff like this at some point.

There's hardly any option to scatter/move colonists efficiently in a game that punishes you for clustering colonists or poor positioning.  It's why I've never blamed other players for relying on killboxes or cluster their pawns.

No hotkey to assign group positions, can't route pawns to take a specific path without using area restriction, etc. Most of the stuff achtung mod did was neat and ideal.

Ordering groups of pawns to perform a single task such as taking drugs, eat a meal etc all has to be ordered individually instead of simply selecting them and click on the job. This alone. Why not add this by now?

I believe A17 is when I started to lose controls on "right click to prioritize" a job as well.  Those are things I thought would be solid in this update, but they're worse than ever in my experience.

Soaking wet debuff is just.... For that to be an ongoing encounter on maps with rivers, it's expected of me to control that situation. I've previously listed in this thread reasons why I don't have control. The mood hit is manageable, it could be reduced to -1 for all I care... The fact it's there with no elegant solution to avoid that debuff makes me question why such things get added to the game as it's tedious to micro and track. (placing bridges in random/unnecessary locations or bridging up most of the river is not ideal, nor setting area restrictions). There are small annoyances like that throughout the game, and it's why I'm complaining about a minuscule problem.

Since I'm on subject of controlling pawns: This bug is infuriating!
[Colonists blocking paths]
Video of bug: https://youtu.be/q097gSySnhk (https://youtu.be/q097gSySnhk)
Post with attachments: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41984.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41984.0)
Some feedback on that bug if it's even being looked into would be appreciated.

Messages:
Awesome it's added! Personally think it deserves one click access.  The notification mod let me archived ALL my notifications, also had search filter. 
Hope that bit gets added some point since that's how I would track things like specific events. Don't wanna pin everything to keep them there.

Deterioration:
Understandable you can't roof trees, but kind of annoying.  Can't simply put a roof over items to prevent deterioration.. Doesn't add a challenge to me or affect me much with resources. 
I like not having to put items in rooms sometimes for aesthetic reasons and convenience.  In previous versions, the option to not store items inside punished me if raiders decided to steal, thought that was fair. 

Zooming:
If I'm remembering correctly feels like we can zoom in closer.  Sweet! Wished I didn't have to zoom in all the way to see progress bar on pawns tho.
Also noticed that it doesn't always display warmup-cooldown time when firing a weapon even if I zoomed all the way. You can see that in the video posted above.

There are definitely improvements/additions to appreciate in this update. I'm not digging the overall experience tho. I keep hoping it will grow on me but.. I want to spend a lot more time with it before commenting on the changes made.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 25, 2018, 03:35:45 PM
Noticed a bug; tamed dromedary did not become listed in animals tab.

Tamed one dromedary successfully.  Tamed two more, and those ones did not appear in the animals list.

I rebooted the game and reloaded the save, and the animals tab would no longer open.   Pressing it would make the view freeze, until I clicked on another menu tab.  The final exception in the log would keep occurring so long as the animals tab was trying to open.

Started with rat pet, then huskies join, then I trained the dromedaries.

(https://imgur.com/j8UWiMH)
(https://i.imgur.com/NIFfnk6.png)

e.  I tamed another one, and the exception that occurs on the tame success is the 'Root Level Exception In OnGUI()' one, with these notes:

Root level exception in OnGUI(): System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RimWorld.PawnTable_Animals.<LabelSortFunction>m__0 (Verse.Pawn p) [0x00006] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable_Animals.cs:15
  at System.Linq.SortSequenceContext`2[Verse.Pawn,System.Boolean].Initialize (Verse.Pawn[] elements) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at System.Linq.QuickSort`1[Verse.Pawn].PerformSort () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at System.Linq.QuickSort`1+<Sort>c__Iterator21[Verse.Pawn].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Verse.Pawn].AddEnumerable (IEnumerable`1 enumerable) [0x0001a] in /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Collections.Generic/List.cs:128
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Verse.Pawn]..ctor (IEnumerable`1 collection) [0x00025] in /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Collections.Generic/List.cs:65
  at System.Linq.Enumerable.ToList[Pawn] (IEnumerable`1 source) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at RimWorld.PawnTable.RecachePawns () [0x0002a] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:243
  at RimWorld.PawnTable.RecacheIfDirty () [0x00019] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:229
  at RimWorld.PawnTable.get_Size () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:50
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.get_RequestedTabSize () [0x0001d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:29
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow.get_InitialSize () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainTabWindow.cs:18
  at Verse.Window.SetInitialSizeAndPosition () [0x00009] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Windows\Window.cs:261
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow.SetInitialSizeAndPosition () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainTabWindow.cs:48
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.SetDirty () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:79
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.PostOpen () [0x00018] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:45
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_Animals.PostOpen () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_Animals.cs:27
  at Verse.WindowStack.Add (Verse.Window window) [0x0003c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Windows\WindowStack.cs:348
  at RimWorld.MainTabsRoot.ToggleTab (RimWorld.MainButtonDef newTab, Boolean playSound) [0x00086] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabsRoot.cs:94
  at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker_ToggleTab.Activate () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonWorkers\MainButtonWorker_ToggleTab.cs:12
  at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker.InterfaceTryActivate () [0x00060] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainButtonWorker.cs:33
  at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker.DoButton (Rect rect) [0x0011e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainButtonWorker.cs:69
  at RimWorld.MainButtonsRoot.DoButtons () [0x000ab] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonsRoot.cs:101
  at RimWorld.MainButtonsRoot.MainButtonsOnGUI () [0x00017] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonsRoot.cs:49
  at RimWorld.UIRoot_Play.UIRootOnGUI () [0x000a6] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\UIRoot_Play.cs:59
  at Verse.Root.OnGUI () [0x0004f] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:164
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.Root:OnGUI() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:169)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheBill on June 25, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
So, you can build watermill generators on bridges... Please nerf
I found out about that when i accidentally hovered a wall blueprint over a bridge and was like "whaaaat you can build on tho- wait...". I tried putting a watermill generator on a bridge and it worked. This allowed me to pretty much fill a river up with watermill generators to get a ridiculous, non-stop power supply.

I think this needs to get nerfed, it's way too cheap (since wood is renewable) for what you get when you fill a river up with them
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 04:13:26 PM
I still haven't 100% worked it out...when is it possible for pawns to traverse between squares diagonally, and when is this restricted?  I sometimes see pawns dart between each other in checkerboard setups, but in others the game insists on pathing them through something that slows them instead or blocking them entirely. 

Even after reloading/replaying some encounters I've not pinned down a consistent model that allows me to anticipate what happens each time I right click a drafted pawn.  Sometimes, they move right past diagonally and sometimes they don't.

Same deal for pawns moving through each other.  As of 1.0 this is much more restricted...but sometimes they still move through each other while usually they can't.  Absent consistency, it would be nice to know what the rules allow in terms of movement since this stuff has a huge impact on raid micromanagement.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tass237 on June 25, 2018, 04:35:01 PM
Several points and thoughts. For reference, I played on Cassandra Rough Crashlanding

-I concur that Glitterworld is a better term than Ultratech.
-I had a colonist get the "Witnessed Ally's Death" mood debuff despite having a mountain between them and the fight. They were both outside though.
-The animal taming/training maintenance is not too bad, and I think it is a good addition.
-I think that the current NOT being able to automatically mine an entire Node is good.
-With 4 sources of Recreation (Takign a walk, chattign at table, chess, horseshoes) the recreation tolerances are sitting around 45-65% for each type. Not a complaint, just providing data.
-There is a B18 mod for Pathing that lets you specify certain areas you want pawns to avoid if possible. I would love to see that or something like it make it into the game. It made the pathing algorithm treat that tile as if it took longer to cross. I would paint the Heavy Avoid zone in the doorway to bedrooms and all doorways to the Freezer, so people wouldn't go through there unless their objective was in the bedroom/Freezer.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 25, 2018, 04:40:24 PM
Oh and I think I've found an oddity, others please confirm on this, it seems like plate armor has actually worse protection overall than a flak vest+pants combo, all of that while overriding clothing as well, even though they cover more body parts. Though I haven't built them yet so I don't know regarding materials costs, but got and excellent plate armor from quest reward. From stats alone I can't see the reason why they would be usable instead. They also don't seem to cause any clunkness/heavy, which is what we would expect.
As a side note, begging reminder to add armor to their own category, and make it smelt-able.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 25, 2018, 04:47:54 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )

In 1.0 you need more than just a horseshoe pin. As your colony grows more and more diverse joy sources reduces their tolerance to joy. My preferred setup is a dining room with a tv, pin, chest table and pool table inside of it. Giving your colonist assigned joy time at start and end of days lets them go watch the sunrise/sunset as well.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: bbqftw on June 25, 2018, 04:58:51 PM
I still haven't 100% worked it out...when is it possible for pawns to traverse between squares diagonally, and when is this restricted?  I sometimes see pawns dart between each other in checkerboard setups, but in others the game insists on pathing them through something that slows them instead or blocking them entirely. 

Even after reloading/replaying some encounters I've not pinned down a consistent model that allows me to anticipate what happens each time I right click a drafted pawn.  Sometimes, they move right past diagonally and sometimes they don't.

Same deal for pawns moving through each other.  As of 1.0 this is much more restricted...but sometimes they still move through each other while usually they can't.  Absent consistency, it would be nice to know what the rules allow in terms of movement since this stuff has a huge impact on raid micromanagement.

I noticed this as well while testing some 1.0 movements.

I think part of it has to do with reserved movement. Even in b18 you could not issue a movement comand to a square reserved for a pawn movement command. However you could achieve fluid control in that patch by undraft draft. Two new changes are that a pawn in a reserved space will instantly try to move off the space at the earliest opportunity where they are not locked by an animation, and second,  is that pawns will now 'reserve' spaces the game is forcing them to move to (this happens a lot with tightly clustered pawns if they are jostling each other).

This causes situations where if you intend to place a pawn in a doorway, while it was reserved by someone currently standing in another tile, the pawn will path through the doorway completely, because the door is reserved by a pawn drafted somewhere else (again, this is very different behavior from b18 as a drafted pawn would never reserve tiles it wasn't standing on, now it can happen)

This can be disaster, since that one tile is the difference between getting hit by 1 or 5 enemy attackers at melee range, not to mention walking into no cover.

I have noticed other situations where collisions during a movement command will cause asinine repathing but this is kind of hard to reproduce.

Again, it can't be overemphasized that during outnumbered fights on extreme where you aren't completely cheesing the enemy, fluidity of control and making sure pawns take the actual paths you want them to take (and not a path the game 'helps' you to take) is of utmost importance.

PS for claims of overpowered or balance it would be helpful for people to state difficulty they play on. Even in this thread there are certain users making wide range assumptions about optimal play / overpoweredness and making passive aggressive 'get gud' snark  despite playing on beginner difficulties.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 25, 2018, 05:06:40 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )

There's a new recreation tolerance introduced in 1.0.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422604646

Colonist schedules: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422601348

The more resources your colony has, the more recreational variety your colonists require. I like this new system, personally.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mirador on June 25, 2018, 05:57:38 PM
Hello Tynan,

Love what you did so far.

As requested, here some feedback after testing a few colonies in unstable version 1.0, Cassandra, Some challenge
(now medium).

Bug/Features I noticed:
- Pawns do not receive any additional moods debuff from banishing a pawn with who he share a relationship with (wife, etc.).
Personally, I would be pretty angry if my wife/son/brother etc. would be banish.
- I cannot prioritize a pawn on an art job when the sculptor table is being used by another pawn. This behavior seem
unique to sculptor table.
- Pawns prefer to eat pemmican over simple meal, even if the simple meals is closer to the dining room. They also often
eat packaged survival meal while I have other meals available. Some control on what pawns are allowed to eat would be nice! =)
- A brawler pawn with no passion in shooting can get a 'shooting inspiration' event. If brawler dislike ranged weapon,
how can they get inspired by it?
- Manage drug policy menu still use Joy wording instead of Recreation.
- You cannot install a cooler or vent over a smoothed wall.
- Raiders will sometimes try to "flee" literally through my base.

Various suggestions/observations:
- It would be nice to have a way to dispose weapons earlier than electric smelting. After all, I can burn a power armor
in a campfire...but not a wooden club. ;)
- When rescuing a pawn that want to join the colony (escape pod or rescue mission), it would be nice to have the option to
"accept/decline" their offer to join. Another idea would be to have a small time period where you can banish him without
consequence.
- "Pause" caravan should be renamed to something like "Rest". Also, it would be nice if it would provide a bonus to healing
speed/immunity gain as getting sick during travels can be really bothersome. As a matter of fact, I did loose a pawn
to infection while having a doctor with 15 medical skill & proper medicines access in the same caravan.
- Infestation can happen in multiple and sometime far away area of the colony. However, the alert message
only show you the main infestation area. Maybe, you could add additional arrows showing where the infestation is, like when
you get raided by multiple groups.
- I do feel that Intellectual skill have a bit of limited use and really don't have much use except drug synthesis once
all tech are finished. Perhaps using it to craft components and advanced component would be a good idea as it's often
a busy job for colonists.
- Speaking of which, there seem to be 4 different "work types" associated to Craft inside the work tab. Drug cooking
(cooking skill), drug synthesis (intellectual skill), crafting spot (crafting skill) and unskilled labor (stone cutting,
chemfuel, smelting). Also crafting a bow from crafting spot and smithy use different priority even if it's the same item.
To make it worse, the work tab say that it's related on crafting skills and passions while it rarely use that skill (only
non drug crafting spot) Maybe it should be renamed and/or split in their proper works assignment. For example, drug cooking
could become a low cooking priority job, crafting tribalwear a tailor job, crafting tribal weapons a smiting job, etc.
- Adding "Force March" option to caravan could be a nice idea.
- It's really minor but it Would be nice to be able to place floor under large furniture, like the electric crematorium,
comms console, etc.
- Speaking of which, pawns can have some difficulty to build corner wall if adjacent walls have been already build.
- While watching the information screen on a pawn, it would be nice if we could switch from one to another.
Otherwise, any way that would allow us to see and compare pawn stats (like Numbers mod) could be really nice.
- Maybe that just me.. but every colony I build end up by being a massive... warehouse. Personally, I would advice to
increase the items stack a bit. Maybe 100 instead of 75 ? ;)

As others already reported/suggest:
- Having medieval helmet that fit with the plate armor would be great!
- I think it would be a good idea to merge meats like what you did for leathers. Another idea could be to add a bill for
"Mixed meat", just like Patchleather is for leathers.
- It would be nice to have an interface to see what is inside a transport Pod when loading. Also, it would be great if
the game would allow more than one colonist to load a transport pod.
- The game slowdown greatly when opening context menu.
- There should be an option to allow time to stop with a popup When a caravan arrive at his destination.
- When undrafting hungry pawns, they immediately start eating a meal even if the game is still paused. Which will be instantly
dropped if I prioritize them on something else. It would be nice if there were a small delay (at least wait until unpause) so
pawn don't carelessly leave their meals on the ground after a fight. Another idea would be that the pawn could put back
the meal in his inventory.

I must admit that I often use a lot of mods (mods junky, heh). However, you really did a great job on the QoL aspect of the game
and I feel like I don't need as many mods as before. This being say, there is still one function that I miss a lot and
it's the ability to mark some items to be haul urgently.

Balances Feedback:
- The game economy is much better than before. It's harder to get insanely rich, which is a good thing!
- Raiding/infestation difficulty curve seem pretty good as well. It's good to feel challenged even in mid/end game where
your base is fully fortified. Combat is more fun in general!
- Also feel like melee fighters are much more viable then early version.
- Caravan traveling is much better! Rewards are often worth it. My only real issues is about infection/sickness
during travel.

Hope this will help!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: MikeLemmer on June 25, 2018, 06:09:45 PM
The issue with Recreation Tolerance is it's really easy to set up a situation where colonists barely do any Solitary Recreation. I had an arctic colony on the brink of collapse (without any set Joy hours) and the colonists only did Solitary Recreation once in a blue moon. It was also extremely easy for a colonist to get "stuck" doing a recreation at just 10% efficiency.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: FrodoOf9Fingers on June 25, 2018, 06:37:52 PM
Enjoying a lot of the changes, though I'm still heavily reliant on mods to tailor the experience to me.

If I may suggest, melee and medicine are the only two skills that don't have a good way of training automatically. Medicine not as much, as the need for medicine occurs regular. But melee is just hard to train without direct control of the pawn, unlike shooting which scales as pawns hunt. Can you make it so that there's a small amount of melee XP given when a pawn does minning? Doesn't have to be large at all, say an eight or a quarter of the XP granted to minning.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ascyron on June 25, 2018, 07:19:16 PM
Hi,

I have been playing 1.0 for a few days now and thought I'd share some key observations, bugs, etc from my colony.

I played the Crashlanded scenario on Cassandra with "Some Challenge", landing on an "easy" year-round growing temperate forest.



QoL Mods I'm really missing in 1.0, and feel could be added to the base game:

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aerial on June 25, 2018, 07:30:55 PM
Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.

Screenshot attached.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
+1 for changing pause to rest. Idk if it's gamebreaking to maybe also give a slight boost to recovery chance (pawns often get infected after their own raids). Perhaps equivalent to staying in bed? Maybe use bedroll qualities? Player inability to control their medicine and their tending is quite frightening to a new player. Again, not a new player, but consider this to a new player's perspective.

Bedrolls are pretty much useless as they were before. You need cotton/leather to make them. The only real reason to use them is if you don't have enough trees around but if you can make bedrolls there's animals around and you can hunt them well enough. Even in the event of players using bedrolls for raids or whatever, it's finicky to set them up to the point I just use sleeping spots. The Use Bedrolls mod lets pawns carry one around in their inventory and places them on the floor when used, quite useful for post battle patch up. Maybe add resting effectiveness during caravan trips?

Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg

Being able to flick a switch while drafted is so useful. I really appreciate this! No more undrafting colonists just to turn on the turrets!

I would be totally fine if, when starting a new game, the priority system is 100% blank. I understand new players may need an idea how to use it, but considering that I've started God knows how many colonists, clicking everything to 0 so I can copy paste each pawn's priority individually is always a pain.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 25, 2018, 07:59:49 PM
I definitely agree that bedrolls need to be adjusted for your new world map. Since we have so much more motivation to explore we should have motivation to pack for the trip properly. I think bedrolls should have quality attached and trying to travel without them is a neg mood. Also an idea that is probably better suited to be a mod, a stretcher to carry allies back home faster.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Diana Winters on June 25, 2018, 08:01:40 PM
<snip>

Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg

<snip>

Really? I was thinking something more Italian (http://www.artizanstore.com/images/detailed/9/A000018_L.jpg?t=1486103740)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 25, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.

Screenshot attached.

Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aszh on June 25, 2018, 08:42:57 PM
Thank you thank you thank you for 64 bit.  Tons of great changes here, but that may be the best one.

Feedback: my doctor went to sleep instead of tending somebody who was bleeding.  I thought that was supposed to change this patch?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 08:57:30 PM
I see you are a woman of taste, Diana. :V

+1 for the stretcher. Pawns don't even need to put a pawn in there, it could be a passive item in their inventory.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Franklin on June 25, 2018, 09:34:00 PM
Can I request a tool to allow me to mine an entire node? Or make steel easier to see? As is, I'm having to dev-mode it to mine full nodes and, frankly, steel is way harder to see than it needs to be (especially around granite and sandstone at least for me. I have the same problem with Uranium and Marble.)
I don't much care for mods, but there's one mod I refuse to not play with and it's that Mine-it-All thing that lets you just select a whole vein and be done with it.

I'd love to see this simple tool get added to the base game. It's such a huge quality-of-life timesaver.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 25, 2018, 09:54:45 PM
Created first masterwork item, Bluefur tribalwear, with lvl 10 in Crafting. If only I was as lucky when it comes to taming animals. :D
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Call me Arty on June 25, 2018, 10:17:11 PM
Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg

Really? I was thinking something more Italian (http://www.artizanstore.com/images/detailed/9/A000018_L.jpg?t=1486103740)

There is only one correct answer. Deus Vult, my brothers! (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/178/214/d99.jpg)

 In all honesty, a barbute (https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-87491460501412/barbute-helm-16-gauge-3.gif) (visorless helmet) might be the wisest choice. If we aren't getting anything on-par with the Brotherhood of Steel for our power armor, I doubt we'd get it for a medieval helmet. Besides, it's that much easier to identify your pawns from each other.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 25, 2018, 10:18:23 PM
Yeeah 1.0!  Guess I can finally go back to modding and actually update them now that it's worth the effort xD

Decided to try a bit of 1.0.  Lots of nice improvements, although I'm not feeling very optimistic about a release any time soon since there's a whole lot that just feels very off. 

Tried a few games this is how a few of them went.

Settings:  Randy extreme, crashlanded.  NB looks a bit too hardcore and Rngy for me, although it looks interesting from a roleplaying perspective I guess, having a completely clean slate.

Game #1:  Went for a mountain turtle town strategy.  Ended up getting a beloved "area revealed" essentially making it a useless town now a target for infestations.  Reminded myself why I don't play that anymore, eventually quit because it wasn't fun. 

One amusing anecdote:  I ended up uncovering an ancient danger.  It was some mechanoids that don't attack the base and just loiter.  The battle music just played the entire game which was annoying.  When some siege dudes showed up, they just threw all their mortars onto the caskets, opening them up and killed the colonists inside.  They then went to the caskets to go attack them.  The mechanoids gave them a nice welcome.

Game #2:  Decided to try out the new autocannons, went in with a strategy of just beelining them.  They're terrible.  A turret and a goliath 500 steel 6 component autocannon... failed to kill a single person in a 5 person early game raid against pistols.  Having put everything into the strategy, it failed miserably. 

It looks like the intention is that these aren't really upgrades so much as turrets you put in back of your main line of turrets for a double amount of firepower.  They'd be pretty terrible at that too tbh.  I suggest either halving their cost, doubling their damage, or doubling their range, making them either super expensive sniper turrets or actually effective at their original goal.  In actual gameplay, turrets usually have a wall between them to bunch them up and prevent explosions, so I'm not sure how these special turrets would perform even as a backline of turrets, though.  If you spread out your turrets instead of block the back ones' LOS, you'll probably just end up with the same amount of firepower.

Game #3:  Decided to play a real game rather than a super cheesy one xD

Things go somewhat normal.  Ended up building on the side of a mountain.  Area had two chokes, so I spammed about 3000 steel worth of deadfall traps into both.  Researched mortars and built a couple of them, used rice to make chemfuel for warheads.  I wasn't going to bother with fighting now that the new armor system doesn't reduce damage.  Deflection is nice, but if one lucky pila is death, uh, no thanks.

First recruits:  Someone addicted to wake-up, which was convenient given the starting 10 drugs, so I kept her for temporary use.  Also, another all around decent grower.

Raids just ran into deadfalls, so that's still effective :D 

Got a quest to save a prisoner, was the wife of one of the recruits.  This turned out to be impossible at this stage of the game.  The husband gets -20 for dead wife and -18 for failed quest.  For 30 days.
that needs working on.

Immediately after that a toxic fallout hits at about day 30.  Since he and the junkie are just deadweight during the event, I banish them both.  Considered executing the husband since he's a frothing pile of depression that will just die anyways, but decided against it.

Both instantly die to my deadfall entrances.  Xom finds this hilarious.

Toxic fallout only lasted about a week, so looks like early fallouts are still not too bad, which is nice.  Another recruits chased by pirates comes along, raiders die to deadfalls again.

I ended up getting a bunch of research done during the toxic fallout and found some weird things.  Multi-anaylzer requires advanced components... but to research fabrication you need... multi-analyzer.  I ended up getting some through an exotic trader, but even towns do not have them nor do caravans or bulk trade ships.  Even then, they were 300 a pop.  This feels too RNGy to me and not at all newbie friendly.

A poison ship lands, and having nothing but deadfalls and a bunch of guys with no shooting, and only 3 people capale of manning mortars, I just let it sit there until a raider comes close.

Either cold snaps got super buffed or the map was just colder than expected, I think winter was only 12C, so I wasn't expecting this.  -20C instantly killed everyone except one recruit which had a parka before I could even throw up a heater when I realized what was going on. 

Decided to keep playing, but immediately after that a power failed occurred right next to some chemfuel, exploding the whole base.

Decided to punch the poison ship out of curiosity at this point.  Only 3 lancers which just died to traps xD

General comments on 1.0

There were lots of nice things.  Like the new art, better trade deals on world map.  A lot of cheesy tactics still work just fine, but ever since alpha 5 bullet sponges went bye bye you have to use some form of cheese anyways xD

Some things, like nerfing animal swarms, just weren't really necessary.  It's a fun tactic that is more talked about because it's amusing that it works as well as it does than it being actually useful, mostly by people who never actually tried it.  Unless you're a tropical tribal, there's much better options.  Fallout and volcanic winter usually means your army collapses, and either you make literally hundreds of boars, or you need like 5 doctors constantly healing them, and even then they turn into mush fast having maybe two or three limbs after a few months.  Nerfing boar hauling I get, but the whole animal upkeep just isn't needed imo.  So for tribals in a warm biome it was about a "7/8" and for everyone else it's about a "6", to use the ratings in your balance thread.  I don't feel like nerfing something that's only powerful in one very specific setting is really worth the effort.

Recreation tolerances are bit out of whack too.  This is something that I can deal with but newbies are going to be confused and annoyed imo.  I needed a mixture of chess, art, recreational drugs, and hoops just to get it down to 50% tolerance, which is pretty high.

Specifically, newbies will probably just have no idea why their dudes are getting depressed, as the tolerances aren't really conveyed very well, you have to know where to look to even find that info.  Iwas actually confused myself at first when I realized after 1 week that my tolerance for private recreation hit like 97% or something.

It was actually worse than being depressed, since my schedules was 4 hour joy, then anything, then 4 hour joy, they just spent all day going for walks and watching the clouds in a vain attempt to stave off depression.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 10:47:01 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )

There's a new recreation tolerance introduced in 1.0.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422604646

Colonist schedules: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422601348

The more resources your colony has, the more recreational variety your colonists require. I like this new system, personally.


Oh thanks for the explainations, i didn't pay attention to this detail !!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 25, 2018, 11:29:48 PM

For tribal starts I consider a siege inside 1st game year to be the single most threatening raid type on extreme.  You're outnumbered, outgunned, and if raiders haven't turned up with a sniper yet, you have no realistic way to lift the siege without exposing multiple pawns to death on biomes that aren't animal-friendly.

LOL, I just outranged raiders with my Greatbows!

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41782.msg413130#msg413130
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 11:32:43 PM
It looks like 1.0 toned down the snipers.  In B18 standard raids would have 2-4 snipers often, and sieges often had that many as well.  Great bows don't outrange snipers.

But I got a siege in 1.0 and nobody in the 15 man siege had one (and I only had one dropped prior), it looks like they're a lot less prevalent now and that affects my grading on siege difficulty a lot in 1.0 if it's really reduced to this extent.  I'm also doing tribal/extreme and I didn't get touched by the siege after using some scavenged bolt actions.

Maybe sappers are hardest now?  They're all doable though.  In terms of tedium mechanoids >> everything though.  Multiple centipedes take a long time to put down still, though it's a lot better than initial 1.0 release.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Rockchecker on June 25, 2018, 11:37:18 PM
I started a new game to check out the latest updates and was reminded of something that's bugged me since it was introduced. The character creation screen has a "Team Skills" section that helpfully lists the highest value your colonists have for each skill EXCEPT animals, crafting, artistic, and social. Why leave those out?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 11:37:23 PM
FYI Nothing changed about pawn movement interactions, it's been the same for years now (since we made it so pawns can't overlap in melee situations, to stop insane imba pile-ups).

It's just called Ultratech because that's the tech level; it doesn't necessarily come from a glitterworld. I've been trying to standardize things a bit towards the RW tech levels (Neolithic, medieval, industrial, spacer, ultratech, archotech).

New build is going up. Raw change list:

------

Fix: Stats window displays armor penetration even for weapons that don't interact with armor (e.g. EMP)
Rebalanced several weapons to increase damage per-shot (and thus armor rating) without changing DPS much: -Assault rifle -LMG -Minigun -Charge rifle
Adjusted mining speed vs walls.
Armor penetration stat now has an explanatory description when you select it in the stats page.
Bloodlust social fight chance factor 2x -> 4x.
Heart attack adjustments.
Remove some erroneous newlines in messages.
Crashlanded no longer starts with wake-up.
Rename SimpleCurve2D -> SimpleSurface.
Reduced soaking wet thought impact to -3. Slightly slowed down movement through water. Marsh now counts as a form of shallow water.
Changed steel graphics to be more visible.
Art cleanup: Ship parts.
Change some armor categories (mainly bomb blunt -> sharp)
Reduces armor penetration on some specific weapons.
Fix: Armor stats’ post-process curves are tuned assuming 100% is perfect protection.
Fix 3444: Wide rivers can spawn with unsupported overhead mountains
Fix 3455: Extreme slowdown while right-click prioritize float menu is open
Implemented three-way roll armor system.
Improved art for dessicated animals somewhat.
Made special dessicated version of thin body type and applied it to female/thin bodies. This fixes a bug where clothed dessicated corpses that are thin or female draw the skeleton past the edge of the clothes. Also refactored and simplified body graphic loading code a bit and adjusted head stump graphics.
Fix: Human skin shader is applied to dessicated skull, making it reddish.
Improved art for dessicated humans.
Transport pods now write their contents on the inspect pane.
Tightened up meal graphics.
Changed letter dismissal option text from “OK” to “dismiss”. Thanks, Apple human interface guidelines.
Inspirations are now associated with skills and are more likely if a pawn has passions in those skills. Reduced inspiration skill level requirements.
Non-tribal colonies start with nutrient paste researched. (this is so tribals don’t get it automatically as well).
Revert "Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research."
Brawlers can no longer get shooting inspirations.
Animal infection chance factor 0.20 -> 0.10.
Watermill generator now requires heavy terrain, so it can't be built on bridges.
Power armor research cost 1600 -> 3000.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 25, 2018, 11:43:44 PM
It looks like 1.0 toned down the snipers.  In B18 standard raids would have 2-4 snipers often, and sieges often had that many as well.  Great bows don't outrange snipers.

But I got a siege in 1.0 and nobody in the 15 man siege had one (and I only had one dropped prior), it looks like they're a lot less prevalent now and that affects my grading on siege difficulty a lot in 1.0 if it's really reduced to this extent.  I'm also doing tribal/extreme and I didn't get touched by the siege after using some scavenged bolt actions.

Maybe sappers are hardest now?  They're all doable though.  In terms of tedium mechanoids >> everything though.  Multiple centipedes take a long time to put down still, though it's a lot better than initial 1.0 release.

This is probably a good thing TBH.  It used to be kind of pointless trying to research good gear fast when it was more likely that you could get a psychic lance to use on an enemy sniper first.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 25, 2018, 11:51:03 PM
1.0 seems to have changed animal vision range for food.  In the winter, this lets every squirrel, rat, and muffalo beeline across the map, through player defenses, and attempt to eat simple meals.

On reflection I'm thinking this is probably not ideal.  While it can be a mild nuisance in some situations, you can just shut the door for those.  In the vast majority of cases, animals congregating into base to this extent makes it open season on very time-efficient draft hunting, complete with access to doors and pathing manipulation to make the odd revenge less threatening.
I left kibble outside for my muffalos in winter, and exactly as you say, every rodent across the map went right for it. It was great. I just had my best melee colonist club them all to death.

This was silly and unrealistic, but I don't see why baited traps shouldn't be a thing.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 11:54:26 PM
Quote
FYI Nothing changed about pawn movement interactions, it's been the same for years now (since we made it so pawns can't overlap in melee situations, to stop insane imba pile-ups).

Maybe nothing *intentionally* changed, but the difference between B18 and 1.0 is not subtle.  It's not a "oh they might be moving kind of differently", it's "pawns are literally doing things that never happened one time in hundreds of hours of play on the previous build". 

- You can right click a group of 6 pawns and have them bounce into > 3x3 square different from the circles drawn.  If this ever happened in B18, it was near 0%.  I have footage of it happening multiple times in one bout of draft hunting in 1.0.
- 1.0 absolutely introduced pawns blocking other pawns from pathing through, another 0% incidence in B18.
- This cuts both ways.  Load up a B18 vs 1.0 build where raiders or manhunter animals are all trying to beat on one door in a 1 wide corridor.  In B18, raiders/animals could stack as many as 6+ bodies on a tile and all melee the door.  Now, at most one can hit the door as the other one moves away, no possibility for 3 or more attacking from one tile whatsoever.
- Diagonal blocking wasn't a thing in B18.  It is in 1.0.  I used this as part of door micro in both builds extensively.  It's definitely different.

That's not to say the 1.0 concept is worse per se', but there's no question it's different.  Whatever the rules are, it's just nice if they're consistent with the information the game causes players to anticipate.  I would like to see less collision overrides/canceling destination spot reservation though (IE where circles show up = where the pawn stops eventually stops every time).

Quote
This is probably a good thing TBH.  It used to be kind of pointless trying to research good gear fast when it was more likely that you could get a psychic lance to use on an enemy sniper first.

On balance I agree.  It's just that it changes my opinion of what is "hardest raid type" since you're not nearly guaranteed to see 2-4 snipers return fire any time you contest an early-ish sieges before having mortars, and player himself isn't running 6 + normal quality or better snipers at a whim.  I like 1.0's gun progression a little better, though I'm not particular (whatever raids you, eventually this is what you have too).

Quote
This was silly and unrealistic, but I don't see why baited traps shouldn't be a thing.

Bait seems reasonable, but maybe not baiting 2/3 of the fauna on the map into an open door freezer through 4 other open doors :D.  I'm not sure what parameters would work to constrain this somewhat so the player has to actually move a little to get food in the winter from hunting.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 12:13:49 AM
I'll have to look into the pawn movement details. Perhaps we fixed a bug or changed something that had an effect. You're describing pawns stacking up in melee in B18, which would be a bug, so if we did fix that it could have had some other effects as well.

Just as a general note, it's a lot more meaningful to try to evaluate the game as it exists, perhaps in comparison with other games, but not so much in comparison with a previous version. A lot of things can really seem more important or impactful than they are when comparing to how things worked before; I don't want all the oxygen in these discussions to be sucked up by talk about neutral changes from B18. Over time, the B18 comparison will become meaningless and the game will just exist .

After all does anyone care to compare B18 to A17 any more? No, because it's forgotten and irrelevant. What's going to matter is what sticks out in an absolute sense, not what sticks out in comparison with B18. So I'm trying to focus on that.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 12:31:08 AM
Fair enough.  I wouldn't have brought up B18 to quite such an extent, except to note that something pretty significant changed in movement in contrast to what you've stated.  Unit stacking to egregious levels was still a thing before 1.0 (I could get 5-6 on one tile too), so 1.0 is likely closer to the intended functionality.

For 1.0 specific concerns I'd emphasize 3 things:

- Inconsistency with drawn circles vs where pawns actually stand while drafted once they stop moving (most prevalent when right clicking 5+ pawns)
- Inconsistency on when diagonal movement between own-faction pawns is fast vs requires a delay or movement to a side
- Whether or not own-faction pawns blocking others outright is intended.  Example: 3 pawns standing still block a door and you order a 4th through.  I have been allowed to pass through those pawns without them moving in 1.0, only to be unable to return to the spot the 4th pawn started...a one way trip with no other factors.  I'm not sure which outcome is intended, but it's probably not "both" :D.

I wish I could give a detailed description of what orders allows pass through vs not but I haven't pinned down a way to do it consistently.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 12:40:07 AM
Why did the difficulty names get changed? The system in .18 and previous was fun and unique.

(https://i.imgur.com/X5ehs09.png)

Now it gets changed to this boring thing?

(https://i.imgur.com/HNOMOw5.png)

Please consider reverting this change. It wasn't needed...

edit: at the very least, revert it on the English versions. I understand that stuff may not translate well, but that's no reason to change the untranslated version.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: anotherrimworld on June 26, 2018, 12:41:48 AM
When managing drug policies it still uses 'joy' instead of 'recreation'. Loving the update
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 12:49:21 AM
-Revert "Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research."

There's a nutrient paste dispenser-shaped hole in my heart right now, but not in my kitchen; it didn't get wiped from last night's change like watermills have in the past, even though my guys haven't researched it yet.   I'm going to prioritize researching it so I don't feel like I got a freebie.

Looks like goop is still on the menu, boys! 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 12:56:31 AM
Can I request a tool to allow me to mine an entire node? Or make steel easier to see? As is, I'm having to dev-mode it to mine full nodes and, frankly, steel is way harder to see than it needs to be (especially around granite and sandstone at least for me. I have the same problem with Uranium and Marble.)

Yeah, some of the mineable resources are way too hard to see, at least for me. Especially since I play on a 1440p monitor and the default zoom has everything ant-sized. How hard would it to do a graphical mod that would essentially make uranium/compacted x 'pop out' against the background terrain? I'd even consider inverted colors for them.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 01:05:23 AM
A HUGE thumbs up regarding bills, btw:  the "Copy to Clipboard" feature is a major change for the better.  Just had a reason to use it for the first time.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 01:06:58 AM
I can see why the difficulty naming was changed, not sure how I feel about it, though.   Now that the overall game is a little harder, it makes more sense to emphasize that higher difficulties will just murder you.

That being said, perhaps it's best to just retire extreme instead.  I'm not even sure intense is possible using naked brutality on a cold map now, so hardcore dudes still have something impossible to try and win xD
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 01:10:14 AM
I can see why the difficulty naming was changed, not sure how I feel about it, though.   Now that the overall game is a little harder, it makes more sense to emphasize that higher difficulties will just murder you.

Please enlighten the rest of the thread. Especially me.. I can see no possible reason for it beyond anti-fun and dumbing stuff down.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 01:11:45 AM
Possible glitch/bug in the way snow is melting on the map during a change of seasons:

(http://i.imgur.com/YzYuR4T.png) (https://imgur.com/YzYuR4T)

I'm using last night's save with tonight's update, if that has any bearing on things.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 01:13:15 AM
Yeah actually the difficulty menu does have highlight text, so you'd have to be really dense not to understand what you're getting yourself into >.>
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 01:15:36 AM
I can see why the difficulty naming was changed, not sure how I feel about it, though.   Now that the overall game is a little harder, it makes more sense to emphasize that higher difficulties will just murder you.

That being said, perhaps it's best to just retire extreme instead.  I'm not even sure intense is possible using naked brutality on a cold map now, so hardcore dudes still have something impossible to try and win xD

I have a relatively stable cas/extreme NB start with around 8 pawns nearing end of 5501.

I did make one tweak to the starting scenario though.  I switched from "new arrivals" to "new tribe" :).  That said, it took a few failures and re-thinking the opening to get something functional.  First run died to massed sapper tbagging (winnable, but 1.0 changed AI and I hadn't adjusted yet), second to early malaria.  Then I took a break with 3 man tribe start before going back to NB to practice my "open ancient dangers immediately" approach.

After some finagling with that I can handle those pretty consistently now, and thus could play out of most starting positions on NB/extreme (no sea ice, and not having a bow makes ice sheet more RNG, on others you can craft bow to proc cryptosleep at range). 

There are plenty of better players out there than me, so it's a bit early to go retiring extreme difficulty!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Polder on June 26, 2018, 02:13:11 AM
Lost yet another NB attempt due to the mad animal event (which always triggers within a few days), followed by infection that progresses faster than immunity even when resting the entire time in a clean room and bed. There is no healroot on the map and no time to cultivate it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Lost yet another NB attempt due to the mad animal event (which always triggers within a few days), followed by infection that progresses faster than immunity even when resting the entire time in a clean room and bed. There is no healroot on the map and no time to cultivate it.

Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 02:31:45 AM
Lost yet another NB attempt due to the mad animal event (which always triggers within a few days), followed by infection that progresses faster than immunity even when resting the entire time in a clean room and bed. There is no healroot on the map and no time to cultivate it.

Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
A disclaimer might be in order, but I pray you don't change the scenario itself.

"This scenario is meant to be unfair...proceed at your own risk." might be a better choice of wording.  I personally don't find it unfair.  Extremely challenging, but not unfair.  I'm probably having the best time playing this scenario since my first game.

"Unfair" to me implies that you're almost certainly going to die, regardless of what you do.  I don't feel that's the case with NB, at all.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ReZpawner on June 26, 2018, 02:32:15 AM
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:44:34 AM
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?

People keep bringing up cases where they died because of some random event that seemed near-unavoidable.

I think this is fine, given what the scenario is. However, some players may perceive this as illegitimate all the same and this will generate player anger.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 02:56:07 AM
You could always change the description to "I created this scenario for a certain type of person. To hurt them."

Once people get comfortable with a more or less finalized version of 1.0, I think the player anger would dissipate, and playing NB becomes a similar proposition as playing on an Ice Sheet. It becomes a badge of honor/bragging rights to have done it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 03:03:15 AM
I'd go with downplaying it, imo.  If you make it serious, people will take it serious. Possible scenario descriptions:

"You are likely to be eaten by a grue"
"10 out of 10 raiders recommend you choose this scenario"
"Make sure to whine on the forums when you die"
"You wake up with a hangover, and no pants"

Kind of like dungeon of the endless' "easy" and "too easy" difficulties (they're both insanely difficult)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Call me Arty on June 26, 2018, 03:23:00 AM
I'd go with downplaying it, imo.  If you make it serious, people will take it serious. Possible scenario descriptions:

"You are likely to be eaten by a grue"
"10 out of 10 raiders recommend you choose this scenario"
"Make sure to whine on the forums when you die"
"You wake up with a hangover, and no pants"

Kind of like dungeon of the endless' "easy" and "too easy" difficulties (they're both insanely difficult)

 I support this.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Polder on June 26, 2018, 03:27:24 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.

I didn't understand how infection worked and that healroot is basically required unless the treating medic has very high skills. I also didn't know healroot doesn't spawn in all biomes. I kept ending up in what seemed like death due to almost solely RNG due to a preference for arid biome.

(I haven't played Rimworld seriously in years)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 03:35:24 AM
(I haven't played Rimworld seriously in years)

I respectfully suggest you try a non-insanely-difficult scenario in that case :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 03:35:41 AM
I preferred the previous difficulty names over the new ones, which are a bit bland. However, I can understand how some people would prefer simpler terms instead. Either way, it doesn't affect me much in terms of gameplay. I do want to comment on how much I'm loving most of the new changes in 1.0. I bought a male and female panther from a Shaman Merchant that dropped by thinking I'll just train them to release since they previously couldn't rescue/haul in b18. I was pretty happy when I noticed they can now be trained to do both! Silver well spent. :D
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aerial on June 26, 2018, 03:51:37 AM
Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.

Screenshot attached.

Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.

She's a gourmand, so that explains it.  Thanks for the info.

I think it should be removed, though.  The Gourmand already has an increased hunger rate.  It feels pretty unfair from a gameplay perspective because it's something I can't really control except by refusing Gourmands into my colony.

At the very least, the mood tooltip needs to be updated with the exception so players aren't turned off by what appears to be buggy behavior.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: jamaicancastle on June 26, 2018, 04:05:12 AM
I think it should be removed, though.  The Gourmand already has an increased hunger rate.  It feels pretty unfair from a gameplay perspective because it's something I can't really control except by refusing Gourmands into my colony.

At the very least, the mood tooltip needs to be updated with the exception so players aren't turned off by what appears to be buggy behavior.
Well, "ban them from your colony" is pretty much the go-to advice for pyromaniacs, so it doesn't seem amiss here. Although I think that points out a more general problem, and wouldn't be averse to it changing.

What I would like is for trait-related mental breaks to be called out in the letter you get informing you when they strike. That way the player knows that they didn't do anything "wrong" (except allow a pyromaniac/chemical fan/gourmand into their colony) to prompt the break, unlike mood-related mental breaks.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 04:08:52 AM
Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.

Screenshot attached.

Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.

She's a gourmand, so that explains it.  Thanks for the info.

I think it should be removed, though.  The Gourmand already has an increased hunger rate.  It feels pretty unfair from a gameplay perspective because it's something I can't really control except by refusing Gourmands into my colony.

At the very least, the mood tooltip needs to be updated with the exception so players aren't turned off by what appears to be buggy behavior.

I think it works the same with pyros, which is why I never recruit such pawns into my colony. I agree with you and I would welcome a change.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Aerial on June 26, 2018, 04:09:47 AM
What I would like is for trait-related mental breaks to be called out in the letter you get informing you when they strike. That way the player knows that they didn't do anything "wrong" (except allow a pyromaniac/chemical fan/gourmand into their colony) to prompt the break, unlike mood-related mental breaks.

Good point, and I agree that would be a reasonable solution.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 04:28:14 AM
I preferred the previous difficulty names over the new ones, which are a bit bland. However, I can understand how some people would prefer simpler terms instead. Either way, it doesn't affect me much in terms of gameplay. I do want to comment on how much I'm loving most of the new changes in 1.0. I bought a male and female panther from a Shaman Merchant that dropped by thinking I'll just train them to release since they previously couldn't rescue/haul in b18. I was pretty happy when I noticed they can now be trained to do both! Silver well spent. :D

Wait... When did he allow Panthers to haul?! And what other animals had changes like this? Panthers are my fav!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 04:42:43 AM
I would love to see more uses for animals... I currently only use combat animals in "safe" situations(Chasing down fleeing terrorists, engaging targets that wont put them in line of fire, or are weakened) or in emergencies, so they dont get hurt. Taming is absolutely my favorite part of the game. Though the unique feel of combat is pretty close too.

Especially having unique uses for specific animals.. Like beavers cutting wood for you, rams and rhinos charging, arming monkeys with knives, dare i say... Mounts?  ;D
And i know ill get a lot of heat for it.. But putting bombs on animals to remote detonate when they get close to hostiles?

Honestly, if i had it my way, i would essentially add a lot of things from ARK to spruce up animals more and give them unique uses and traits! Like turtles armor or cobras toxic buildup, some of the few with a unique trait currently.

And a greater variety of animals too!! The more the merrier. But i know thats a lot to ask, and balance.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 04:46:21 AM
I preferred the previous difficulty names over the new ones, which are a bit bland. However, I can understand how some people would prefer simpler terms instead. Either way, it doesn't affect me much in terms of gameplay. I do want to comment on how much I'm loving most of the new changes in 1.0. I bought a male and female panther from a Shaman Merchant that dropped by thinking I'll just train them to release since they previously couldn't rescue/haul in b18. I was pretty happy when I noticed they can now be trained to do both! Silver well spent. :D

Wait... When did he allow Panthers to haul?! And what other animals had changes like this? Panthers are my fav!

Yes! I was so excited when I found out. Panthers are so cute! Unfortunately my female panther's life was short lived.
Trained her to release and a poison ship dropped down that had a scyther and two centipedes.

Right before the chaos: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423014453
Rip Nala, she didn't even get to make babies: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423014358

Anyway, panthers have 80% wildness and training decay interval of 7 days. If panthers can now rescue and haul, maybe cougars as well? I'm not sure, I've only had warg, boomalope, muffalo, timber wolf and polar bear so far in 1.0.

Edit: Mounts would be amazing ^.^ I've seen a mod for it on steam, but never tried it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 26, 2018, 04:49:38 AM
I dislike the changes in text, example is hot -> sweaty etc, instead of a nice, clean message.

Sorry, hot is hot. Sweaty is what, hot and wet? Is this supposed to show discomfort? The only discomfort is for the player. New texts not very rimworldish.

Also really dislike the new joy from work and joy in general, either the pawn is working on one assignment or he is somewhat useless and prone to breaking, and the joy gain is on/off. More discomfort to play as one wishes.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 05:18:45 AM
I dislike the changes in text, example is hot -> sweaty etc, instead of a nice, clean message.

Sorry, hot is hot. Sweaty is what, hot and wet? Is this supposed to show discomfort? The only discomfort is for the player. New texts not very rimworldish.

Also really dislike the new joy from work and joy in general, either the pawn is working on one assignment or he is somewhat useless and prone to breaking, and the joy gain is on/off. More discomfort to play as one wishes.

Ya! I am hesitant to use any mods.. I have to be sure they are balanced and dont make the game easier. Just QoL and things i think  the game needs. Mounts would be amazing, but damn hard to balance.

I think cougars and panthers were identical in all but color. While the Lynx is just a fluffier smaller version :P Like Wargs and Labs. I would think Lynx should be able to haul too, just not as much. I really hope panthers hauling isn't a bug! I have wanted it ever since i tamed one. I was really hoping for more animal changes than we got. I have yet to encounter a Warg, muffalo, or bear so far, but i cant wait.

And i love the Simba and Nala! You are damn lucky to find both on 1 trader! :P The game really needs hyenas, Perfect pack predator for several biomes.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 05:39:38 AM
Surprised: No discussion yet about how the armor system has been completely redone with armor penetration, damage diminshment (from gunshot to bruise), etc.

Anyway, quick update going up. Changelog:



-----

Building watermills too close together now makes them less effective (water turbulence).
Adjust naked brutality description.
Reduced “soaking wet” duration and made it happen in rain as well as water.
Fix: Minor issues with time speed slowing in combat.
Autocannon turret is now significantly more powerful and somewhat more expensive.
Fix: Pawns who are incapable of hauling can still do opportunistic hauling jobs.
Multi-analyzer no longer requires advanced components. Plasteel is enough.
Buffed wind turbine power output 15%.
Insect meat is now priced lower than other meat.
Fix: Some text still uses the term “joy” instead of “recreation”.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 05:47:39 AM
On that note Tynan, when I inspected some weapons of caravan guards, I was surprised to see the pump shotgun only having an AP of 5%, which is worse than even a machine pistol. Is this intentional?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 05:51:04 AM
On that note Tynan, when I inspected some weapons of caravan guards, I was surprised to see the pump shotgun only having an AP of 5%, which is worse than even a machine pistol. Is this intentional?

Yep.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 05:51:18 AM
Yeah, I was pretty lucky. The shaman merchant was actually selling two males and one female. I'm waiting for traders to sell polar bears since I'm trying my best to run my colony without alt + f4. lol. There's no point in playing permadeath if I'm just going to alt f4 through the bad stuff, although it's super tempting at times. It took me 17 days to tame a polar bear on my other save and he went manhunter quite a few times so definitely don't want to risk that on this save.

Ohh yeah so cougars can probably be trained to rescue/haul now too. I hope the new panther hauling isn't a bug either as they are large enough to definitely haul stuff around.

I have nothing to add regarding the new armor system because I honestly have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to combat. I hide behind walls, doors, pets and hope for the best. Would be an interesting discussion to read though, I could certainly learn more.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 06:04:19 AM
I think it is more to do with their intelligence and ability to drag things in their mouth,  along with size. Big cats are smart!

I had a few scary run-ins with ostriches, trying to tame them was a nightmare haha. They seem like they would be great at hunting down fleeing enemies and separated hostiles with that speed and damage! But they go Manhunter like crazy.. which I can imagine is pretty realistic haha.

And no point doing permadeath if you are using alt F4:P I'm damn surprised I didn't end up losing anyone before I took a break while I waited for 1.0 to come out.

And that bruising mechanic sounds awesome! Just like using a Kevlar vest in real life. I would maybe even say a few broken ribs if you get hit by something hard enough! I didn't see the full details of that change to damage and armor, but melee could always use a little love also! That sounds like it could potentially give melee a few interesting uses with those mechanics.

It would be great if colonist could hold a melee weapon on their person along with a ranged, that way they could have the option to just switch to melee easily once the enemy gets close enough. Or possibly even a bayonet?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NeverPire on June 26, 2018, 06:06:40 AM
So much translation errors with this update.
The most difficult to fix.

Hopefully, backstories are finally came back !
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 06:09:08 AM
So much translation errors with this update.
The most difficult to fix.

Hopefully, backstories are finally came back !

Sorry about that, we changed a lot but it needed to be done. Thank you for the help!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 26, 2018, 06:11:29 AM
I am really really liking current armor system. Though, i also really miss assault rifles firing quick 3 shot bursts. Can you consider adding old 3 weak shorts long range assault rifles as a separate weapon intended for taking down unarmored targets? Like a better version of machine pistols, with lower armor piercing value and better range.

Either way, good job on armor overhaul. Feels a lot more interesting to see it proc, than it was in alphas.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 06:21:04 AM
I did see a bit of a potential to abuse the removal of penalties to Armor and weapon effectiveness at lower durability. Now that there are no penalties, you can let your gear degrade to a very low percentage, to make your net worth far lower than it actually is and therefore make raids much weaker. Especially early game, even the reduced price doesn't matter that much when compared to staying alive. Such as on NB.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 06:25:07 AM
to make your net worth far lower than it actually is and therefore make raids much weaker.

Wait, raids are based on net worth? Is that current, or reported? As in, how do the raiders magically know my colony is 'worth raiding'?

It should be based on visible net worth. If a trade caravan visits and sees a bunch of fancy stuff, that gets added to the raiding net worth. If visitors come and just see some ramshackle huts and a hole in a mountain, that shouldn't be worth raiding much at all.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 06:31:37 AM
Maybe that last recruit of yours that ran into your base being chase by Raiders, was actually a spy!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding mechanics. Why did you remove that penalty Tynan? It also makes the weapons you get from Raiders far more valuable to you now. And you get quite a lot of them! I rather liked that they were situationally a good addition to Your Arsenal, but now, functionally, aren't they all much stronger? Only being weaker based on build quality.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: FlameBlood on June 26, 2018, 06:39:32 AM
Multi-analyzer no longer requires advanced components. Plasteel is enough.

NOOOOOOOO! :(
That was so nice, so well-placed requirement. Many high-end techs depend on the analyzer, so it was a great addition to both challenge and story. Colonists should have actually achieved something, proved that they are ready for the late game.
Yeah, adv.comp. is still needed for a Fabrication, but it does nothing with techs unlocked by the analyzer.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 26, 2018, 07:05:13 AM
Did some testing on how quality stuff works for furniture assembly. A legendary master in Construction skill failed to a produce a single legendary bed in 200 attempts. He did dish out about 10 masterworks, but not a single legendary.

A conclusion i came to:
1) Other than beds and furniture we can forget about having anything masterwork, as resource costs in anything other than wood make it wasteful and pointless - stat difference between regular excellent stuff and masterwork just isn't nearly worth the time and resources. Legendary master builder (lvl 20) only has about 4-5% chance to produce a masterwork.

Stats comparison: masterwork bed vs. excellent
Immunity gain: 110% vs. 110%
Rest effectiveness: 125% vs. 114%
Surgery success chance: 69% vs 61%

2) Inspiration just gives your +2 quality levels once. So first you have to win one lottery and get exactly creativity inspiration, second lottery - get it on exactly your best builder. And third lottery - get at least excellent quality item, so it gets +2 and becomes legendary. And it works only once, so if you failed 3rd lottery - you're back to step one. Considering that first you need to make those whiny aristocratic frontier-hobos ultrahappy - good luck with that. I think player has better chance of pulling off a jack pot at a casino.

Verdict: I guess this idea goes quite well with "memorable storytelling" route RW is going. It makes legendary items truly legendary rare and you probably won't forget obtaining such a thing anytime soon. As you either need to be a god of random, or a master tactician to pull off a tough fight and get it as a quest reward. On one hand, I can't say i am fond of this change, since compared to B18 its a massive nerf to having lvl 20 crafters trained. On the other hand it makes colonists more expendable, since you don't really need to fear losing that god-like builder anymore - a pawn of skill level 10 can produce those excellent items and thats optimal.

I wonder if those quality chances can be tweaked via xml? If they are, i would really like to know where to look.

P.S. Thank god, multi-analyzer no longer needs adv. components, since you have to rely on luck to get those prior to fabrication. Never did dig progression locked by RNG.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 07:34:53 AM
Shouldn't the workLeft for smoothing stone walls (and floors if possible) be stored in the Things themselves rather than the JobDrivers? It seems odd that interrupting somebody's smoothing job just magically reverts all of that person's progress on smoothing stone stuff.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NeverPire on June 26, 2018, 07:35:06 AM
That was so nice, so well-placed requirement. Many high-end techs depend on the analyzer, so it was a great addition to both challenge and story. Colonists should have actually achieved something, proved that they are ready for the late game.
Yeah, adv.comp. is still needed for a Fabrication, but it does nothing with techs unlocked by the analyzer.
There were too much RNG needed to get them. An opening of an ancient danger room could be enough to find them (that's the case in my current game) or in the opposite you could just stay stucked due to the lack of advanced components. I prefer the new recipe.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.

You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.

Steam only tells a player how many hours someone has played. I wish Steam could also record how many hours a player has dedicated to each difficulty level... then people like me could print screen a screenshot to show to the world how many hours we played on the basic levels...BEFORE jumping to the higher difficulties. Remember that turtle always wins over rabbit. It's a pity there's no way I can show that to everybody else as example myself.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Adamiks on June 26, 2018, 07:46:25 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.

You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.

Steam only tells a player how many hours someone has played. I wish Steam could also record how many hours a player has dedicated to each difficulty level... then people like me could print screen a screenshot to show to the world how many hours we played on the basic levels...BEFORE jumping to the higher difficulties. Remember that turtle always wins over rabbit. It's a pity there's no way I can show that to everybody else as example myself.

That is a terrible idea. Some new players might have seen gameplay of it, a lot of it perhaphs, or are just naturally skilled players and find easier difficulties straight up boring.

Eh, i'm sidetracking from the topic... Sorry, won't do that again.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 26, 2018, 07:48:38 AM
You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.

I already see a massive problem this can cause. You do know, not everyone plays to win right? I for one don't even wanna go for shipping off of planet. I like playing to play. To see how long i will last and what will ruin me in the long run. Enforced playing difficulty order isn't a right solution for games such as this one.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 07:56:18 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.

You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.

Steam only tells a player how many hours someone has played. I wish Steam could also record how many hours a player has dedicated to each difficulty level... then people like me could print screen a screenshot to show to the world how many hours we played on the basic levels...BEFORE jumping to the higher difficulties. Remember that turtle always wins over rabbit. It's a pity there's no way I can show that to everybody else as example myself.

That is a terrible idea. Some new players might have seen gameplay of it, a lot of it perhaphs, or are just naturally skilled players and find easier difficulties straight up boring.

Eh, i'm sidetracking from the topic... Sorry, won't do that again.

I agree. New players can decide for themselves if they wish to lower the difficulty, it shouldn't be mandatory to play a specific difficulty/map first. Also, hours played in a game means little compared to the skill of the player and their understanding of game mechanics. Some people are naturals, while others may take a bit more time than others. Some people also enjoy digital suffering and enjoy playing on harder difficulties even if they're new in order to challenge themselves. It really just depends on the person.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ChJees on June 26, 2018, 07:59:35 AM
"This scenario is only for the most masochistic and\or skilled. It is unfair." is what i would have as the difficulty text for Naked Brutality :P.

Requires a ton of game knowledge in order to survive.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 26, 2018, 08:03:46 AM
Shouldn't the workLeft for smoothing stone walls (and floors if possible) be stored in the Things themselves rather than the JobDrivers? It seems odd that interrupting somebody's smoothing job just magically reverts all of that person's progress on smoothing stone stuff.

Terrain doesn't have Things or a class instance in general to store this data, it's just the terrainGrid. It was the same problem in earlier versions. Now with smoothing walls it would be possible for the walls to store the data in the Thing but still not for terrain.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 26, 2018, 08:14:55 AM
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?

People keep bringing up cases where they died because of some random event that seemed near-unavoidable.

I think this is fine, given what the scenario is. However, some players may perceive this as illegitimate all the same and this will generate player anger.

Label it appropriately, but PLEASE keep it intact!

This is similar to scenarios I was setting up, I'd not even mind a bit less research known. Not losing all research perhaps, but of course I can prob change the scenario or make that a mod if you don't want to mess with that.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: FlameBlood on June 26, 2018, 08:23:51 AM
P.S. Thank god, multi-analyzer no longer needs adv. components, since you have to rely on luck to get those prior to fabrication. Never did dig progression locked by RNG.
There were too much RNG needed to get them. An opening of an ancient danger room could be enough to find them (that's the case in my current game) or in the opposite you could just stay stucked due to the lack of advanced components. I prefer the new recipe.

Fair enough. But guaranteed adv.comp. in ancient shrine will mitigate that.
But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 08:24:39 AM
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...

The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.

So you don't "max" and "legendary" and "epic" things in real life, which is how I want it in RW, because it leaves open space for truly exceptional things to happen instead of cheapening them by ensuring them in every game.

I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?

People keep bringing up cases where they died because of some random event that seemed near-unavoidable.

I think this is fine, given what the scenario is. However, some players may perceive this as illegitimate all the same and this will generate player anger.

Label it appropriately, but PLEASE keep it intact!

This is similar to scenarios I was setting up, I'd not even mind a bit less research known. Not losing all research perhaps, but of course I can prob change the scenario or make that a mod if you don't want to mess with that.

Not planning on nerfing Naked Brutality, don't worry.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 08:32:38 AM
The graphic representation isn't really "that" much important to me but, the steel image of square plates made more sense to me than just the rock type which I see was reverted but never mind to me. I do however find it awkward the representation of silver.

Silver is the game currency right? Now imagine yourself as a RW pawn in real life, would it really be practical to count "Stones"? Make silver look like casino chips at least, you know, the rectangular ones if not coins. How do you carry 1k in rocks?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: lwki on June 26, 2018, 08:34:44 AM
Some feedback after a couple of playthroughs
The new recreation system feels too overtuned, colonists are spending hours and hours switching between joy sources. It feels like i need to make a disneyland for them to start working. They ignore incapacitated colonists for the sake of joy. They even go back to joy even at 90%.
This new system would be okay for colonists under age of 15.

You are a 50 year old castaway sitting alone on unknown planet?
Better play the shit out of them horseshoes for the next 10h.

And another thing, were centipedes buffed?
Had mechanoid raid, 3 minigun centipedes. Ally caravan pops at the same time. I think 'cool they will kill them for me'. Caravan got anihilated. Then 3 almost unscratched centipedes vs my 5 colonists with bolt action rifles/shotguns. Colonists behind sandbags got shred to pieces. For sure old miniguns werent that accurate. Colonists killed one mechanoid and mechanoids killed all colonists.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 08:39:50 AM
If you're fighting 3 centipedes with bolt-action rifles something has gone very wrong somewhere.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Adamiks on June 26, 2018, 08:42:09 AM
You are a 50 year old castaway sitting alone on unknown planet?
Better play the shit out of them horseshoes for the next 10h.

Shush Rachel! I don't care that you're sick from malaria and your ninth and eleventh ribs are gone and your arm is infected after that darn mad squirrel! I have a game of chess to play! YES WITH MYSELF, RACHEL, AND I AM GOING TO ENJOY IT

Damn women... Always interrupting me. Ah, so where were we? Right, right. I knocked out my horse, it's my move now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 08:46:16 AM
I just loaded the latest build, and my game had just overcome a Toxic Fallout, so there's lots of bones here... Honestly, I don't like the new images. I liked much more the bigger squeletons. Why? Because I love playing Ice Sheet, in that biome, tribals like the Thule People used whale bones as roof tops, so the older representations we had made fair representation of real life.

Not to mention that Ice Sheet tribes relied heavily on...FISHING!

But talking about the new bone images... I prefer the older ones...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 26, 2018, 08:50:53 AM
The graphic representation isn't really "that" much important to me but, the steel image of square plates made more sense to me than just the rock type which I see was reverted but never mind to me. I do however find it awkward the representation of silver.

Textures are minor to me too. Steel looks good to me either way but the silver is awkward.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: GlitchKs on June 26, 2018, 08:58:33 AM
I already see a massive problem this can cause. You do know, not everyone plays to win right? I for one don't even wanna go for shipping off of planet. I like playing to play. To see how long i will last and what will ruin me in the long run. Enforced playing difficulty order isn't a right solution for games such as this one.
EXACTLY
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bones on June 26, 2018, 09:02:31 AM
Has cleanness and how pawns produce dirty changed? Loaded a save on the last version and now everything is really dirty, can't clean it as fast as it becomes dirty and even when I clean the whole room manually it still says it is dirty even if there is just one hospital bed and the floor is made from silver.

EDIT: It seems there was some dirty under the bed and I could select it.

EDIT2: One suggestion would be to have an option to 'clean the room', so the pawn won't stop until the room is really clean, it would even be better if their work would prioritize that, instead of cleaning single patches of dirty, try to clean a room and then move to another.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: rkade8583 on June 26, 2018, 09:06:07 AM
Please, Tynan, don't forget about us low vision folks. Please allow us to mine an entire vein rather than having to spend too long with too much of a headache finding each individual tile... or make them easier to discern (steel and granite are particularly close together.)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Antaios on June 26, 2018, 09:08:01 AM
in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...
If you do you'll pay no more mind to it than any other piece of furniture or sculpture or whatever you make, because having one of such an item is reasonably insignificant in it's bonuses and effects.

It means nothing in terms of real game effects and just becomes a label you see sometimes, incredibly rarely.

It dangles like a carrot infront of every player, knowing it's there, it's possible - but when they get it, the one Legendary item they finally craft or get, what do they get?

A label, mostly. Maybe they can have one less piece of furniture in their rec room now, since the beauty is offset.

Decking out the entire colony with legendary beds is an event the colony specifically sets out to do. It takes days, and a ton of rebuilds, that builder works tirelessly to produce their best. Bedrooms are a mess, there's beds in the hallways and scrap wood everywhere. I'm much less likely to forget this, and I feel a lot more accomplishment for it, than if I got lucky on the rolls and managed to eek one out some day - promptly not knowing which pawn to give it to.

Having a crafter who practiced their craft for most of their life rightfully know their sh**, and create exceptional pieces of furniture for the entire colony? now that's interesting and meaningful. You'll remember that crafter, you'll be sad when you have to train up a new one (or you'll prepare an apprentice in advance).

Having one they're-currently-our-best crafter get lucky with an inspiration someday and create one legendary piece of furniture?
Eh, give it to Joe Shmuck, he's usually a bit sad, or sell it, it's worth a pretty penny.

Even if the bonus wasn't negligible enough that you'd need to outfit your entire colony with the item to make an impact, I always try to get rid of such one-shot items, one-use items, that one super crafted item. I'll be selling Legendaries frankly. I want a colony that doesn't depend on a random item I can't replace - the best way to ensure that, is to never use it in the first place.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 09:14:58 AM
I'm having trouble with the "Toggle visibility of roofs" since placing new structures are green and the already built roofs are also colored green, it makes it hard to place columns on rooms that have roof opening due to terrain obstructions, marsh soil, water... and I'm currently at night with half my colonists with Fibrous Mechanites... so don't ask me to wait until daylight for clarity.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 26, 2018, 09:20:34 AM
I have no issues with the Legendary items stuff. I've got a masterwork end table, bed, charge lance, and plasteel plate armor. Masterwork is fine for me. Legendary should be well, legendary as Tynan puts it.

As for the new armor system, I noticed that instead of deflection regarding my plated melee fighters, most of it translated to bruises and such. I suppose this is the point of the whole balance, but now I barely see any deflection! Surely my power armored soldier should have deflected some bullets. Bruises, that makes sense for flak vests. But short of a charge lance, a raider's dinky machine pistol should bounced a good chunk of the rounds off.

Difficulty: Cassandra Rough. +1 for the old names. It gave flavour, and that's fine. People learned what "rough" meant just fine before.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bones on June 26, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
Just noticed this now, I got plague and the letter told me so that it affected one colonist.

Later I noticed one of my huskies was not moving from the rest spot, it got plague as well, it would be nice if the letter informed affected animals.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
Just noticed this new problem:

Characters are now self-overdriving my own player command "Rest until healed", I got Lercha, both with Fibrous Mechanites & Malaria, he is 48 years old and my main builder, I watching him like a pro-stalker. He is also one of my medics, he just got up to try to patch up another colonists...this is worst than auto-undraft. Which still wasn't completely removed from the game...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Jibbles on June 26, 2018, 09:32:12 AM
Just noticed this new problem:
Characters are now self-overdriving my own player command "Rest until healed"

Good luck.  Most of the commands ordered through right click isn't working out for me.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bones on June 26, 2018, 09:39:02 AM
Just noticed this new problem:

Characters are now self-overdriving my own player command "Rest until healed", I got Lercha, both with Fibrous Mechanites & Malaria, he is 48 years old and my main builder, I watching him like a pro-stalker. He is also one of my medics, he just got up to try to patch up another colonists...this is worst than auto-undraft. Which still wasn't completely removed from the game...

My plague guy stayed at bed all time, my rescued from a pod guy kept getting up all the time.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 10:24:09 AM
Definitely against a difficulty curve.  I've never played below intense, have spent almost all of my time on extreme and wouldn't have it any other way.  I know at least one other player who followed the same progression.

I don't like outcomes purely RNG determinant as a design concept, player agency is crucial to games like this.  That said, after the food poisoning change there are tools in the game right now which allow tribal tech NB to survive nearly every possible sequence...the biggest threat is initial mood management.  Once the mechanics themselves stabilize (pawn movement, AI reactions, etc) I expect there will be plenty of players out there who can survive NB pretty reliably on extreme.

Quote
If you're fighting 3 centipedes with bolt-action rifles something has gone very wrong somewhere.

Bolt action has 37 range, 5 more than miniguns (which take ages to wind up) and 10 more than inferno cannons/heavy charge blasters.  Centipedes aren't fast enough to close on that.

Once you've cleared out scythers/lancers, how is this not a solid choice for kiting centipedes?  Unless you want to spam door peek and kill them with stuff like revolvers (or whatever has armor pen now, need to test newest updates once I can), have a few snipers on hand, or can isolate them with EMP + maces/clubs I can't think of a more straightforward way to kill them than simply shooting them from out of their range until they die.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 10:32:46 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 10:55:54 AM
Just a quick thought: Shouldn't prioritising snow clearing actually prioritise all designated cells in an area in a similar fashion to how prioritising cleaning cleans other nearby dirty cells?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 11:15:42 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...

Quoted statement doesn't indicate coherent rationale - what "basic level problems" justify locking players out of high difficulties arbitrarily?

Most of my complaints have been about one of two things:

- Inconsistency in implementation
- Lack of agency in rare cases (Most events in Rimworld have solid agency, and it has on average gotten better with time)

Some of these have been shared by others players and already addressed as 1.0 continues to be updated.

Quote
Just a quick thought: Shouldn't prioritising snow clearing actually prioritise all designated cells in an area in a similar fashion to how prioritising cleaning cleans other nearby dirty cells?

Manual cleaning is a bit of a problem in 1.0 too.  I can see that the room impressiveness is down.  I can turn on beauty and see exactly where the dirt is.  However when I try to right-click someone with cleaning allowed to clean it the game won't show "clean dirt" consistently in the drop down menu.  Usually this is because the dirt is under a bed or other piece of furniture.  Happens in a doorway sometimes too.

Considering this is important for both tend quality and cooking it's one of those times you really need the right click menu to display it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 11:17:18 AM
Just a quick thought: Shouldn't prioritising snow clearing actually prioritise all designated cells in an area in a similar fashion to how prioritising cleaning cleans other nearby dirty cells?

Technically speaking, the game is incorrect. When you "remove" snow, you are actually piling it up elsewhere. So if applied to the game "correctly" we should have something like a "small hill of snow" at a place designated by the player, and pawns would be "hauling" the snow there. Like making snow "stones"...

...and that would lead us to...igloo building in Ice Sheet!!! Oh ... I'm touching myself now...
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ramsis on June 26, 2018, 11:18:41 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...

Kenji just know if you keep being overly hostile to folks this will be your third ban, and that carries a cozy month or so. You need to chill, everyone is invited to play how they please at any skill level.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
I think tynan can do without the "lol ur n00b" comments in this thread xD  'Sides I've totally taken out two centipedes with survival rifles.  3 is a bit much, though >.>

Anyways, going to test out the armor/general combat on randy intense, no security buildings.  Probably going to die horribly xD

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: klun on June 26, 2018, 11:29:20 AM
Personally I think that the the difficulty tune up is and was necessary, specially at very hard/ extreme.

The armor penetration/reduction is a nice addition to that, Im still digging into that but overall feels like is balanced. The only issue that Im seeing is how useless are some weapons with that new system (grenades for example)

And I also like the other names better for difficulty rather than the usual hard, very hard.

On another note the reason why I always ask if its possible to throw an "endless mode " option when you launch "finish" the game to jump to another world, is because it would be real interesting specially now with this new armor / difficulty spike  to have some kind of new game+

With scaled enemies perhaps a randomly generated more  aggressive planet and so on

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:29:51 AM
Anyways, going to test out the armor/general combat on randy intense, no security buildings.  Probably going to die horribly xD

Hoping someone will test the autocannons now too!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 11:34:26 AM
I did!  It was not a thorough test, though.  I can maybe do that later.

"
Game #2:  Decided to try out the new autocannons, went in with a strategy of just beelining them.  They're terrible.  A turret and a goliath 500 steel 6 component autocannon... failed to kill a single person in a 5 person early game raid against pistols.  Having put everything into the strategy, it failed miserably. 

It looks like the intention is that these aren't really upgrades so much as turrets you put in back of your main line of turrets for a double amount of firepower.  They'd be pretty terrible at that too tbh.  I suggest either halving their cost, doubling their damage, or doubling their range, making them either super expensive sniper turrets or actually effective at their original goal.  In actual gameplay, turrets usually have a wall between them to bunch them up and prevent explosions, so I'm not sure how these special turrets would perform even as a backline of turrets, though.  If you spread out your turrets instead of block the back ones' LOS, you'll probably just end up with the same amount of firepower."
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 11:38:01 AM
Quote
The armor penetration/reduction is a nice addition to that, Im still digging into that but overall feels like is balanced. The only issue that Im seeing is how useless are some weapons with that new system (grenades for example)

I have a lot of theorycraft I really want to test out in practice and am not sure I can manage to test it all in the next few days.  What's the issue with grenades?  Not enough armor pen?  Maybe they could deal sharp (shrapnel) and blunt (concussion) damage, mostly the latter?

Wiki of course can't keep up with 1.0 changes so it's hard to visualize the specifics on how weapons interact with armor w/o trying it out.  By the sound some weapons will basically be dealing no damage to end game armor.  That's an interesting scenario, makes me wonder how stuff in raider's hands scales to it too.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 11:40:37 AM
Another option would be to perhaps give autocannons a higher per-tile accuracy than mini-turrets (maybe 97% instead of 96%), since it isn't implied to my knowledge that autocannons have the same sort of potato AI that mini-turrets do. On the other hand, that could make them quite OP since 97% is a significant step up from 96%.

Also, isn't the autopistol almost all-round inferior to the revolver at this point, despite being the higher-tech gun? It has a slightly higher base DPS, true, but it has inferior range, is unable to stagger people unlike the revolver, and also has a worse DPS at longer distances. Not to forget the worse AP makes them less viable too.

Also, a bit of theorycraft, but with the linear nature of the armour system, isn't armour piercing's role as it stands fairly minor, with perhaps the exception of comparing extremes (e.g. machine pistol/shotgun vs charge lance/autocannon).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: DariusWolfe on June 26, 2018, 11:41:01 AM
Greep: I think he means the autocannons which have been changed since you originally posted that.

Autocannon turret is now significantly more powerful and somewhat more expensive.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Julia on June 26, 2018, 11:43:58 AM
"Reduced “soaking wet” duration and made it happen in rain as well as water."

I don't think he plays the game anymore outside of the developer mode, he doesn't understand ^^

Let's craft umbrellas, and equip them instead of weapons. And when it rains, just block all doors and keep your pawns indoors for the next 2 minutes so they don't get a debuff. Don't worry it's just another useless micromanagement that should not be in the game. Or just get a free -mood because why not.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...

Kenji just know if you keep being overly hostile to folks this will be your third ban, and that carries a cozy month or so. You need to chill, everyone is invited to play how they please at any skill level.

Don't worry, Version 1.0 didn't bring me anything new...and half a year wait was too long for little, I'm already buying other games and soon you won't see me again anyways.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:50:17 AM
~

Please don't just copy paste your old posts; the balance changed since then which is why I'm looking for play reports.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 26, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
Put me on the list of folks who've killed (2) Centipedes with (2) Bolt-Action Rifles: admittedly, they were Good Bolt-Actions, one of which was in the hands of a skill-16 shooter. But hey, you go to war with the army you have.

Just a note: eye injuries still cause the "disfigured" social malus, even though they're treatable now. Not sure if bugged or WAD (since there's probably a chance of scarring if they aren't treated well enough, in which case, the malus makes sense).

Question: Do happier pawns play better together? I finally recruited Bat to my colony (literally trained social up from 2 to 10 with no passion), and all that my pawns did was chitchat. I looked in dev mode and found that she had a 0.10% chance per interaction for a Deep Talk w/ my primary colonist. If not, would it be too much of a pain to make social interaction chance influenced by mood? E.g. the Hard Worker can put up with the Lazy pawns if everyone's fed and entertained, but if the colony hits a serious rough patch, you just won a free subscription to "Social Fighting Monthly."
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: wastelandr on June 26, 2018, 11:53:58 AM
The latest build you posted this morning seems to be broken on Mac
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tass237 on June 26, 2018, 11:54:47 AM
I support reverting the difficulty levels to their previous terms.

I support the current rarity of Masterwork and Legendary qualities.

I think the soaking wet debuff in rain is fine, and it makes jungle biomes tougher, which I like. But I do think a Pluviophile/Hydrophile trait is in order though that gets a mood buff from being wet instead of a penalty.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Adamiks on June 26, 2018, 11:55:24 AM
Just a quick question @Yoshida
"* 50% Killbox players
* 80% Casual players (with Over Powered Mods)"

Do you mean 80% of 50% or 50% of that 80% or 50% of the remaining 20% (making 90% of the player base casuals % killboxers, HMMM) or 80% of that 50%
Or is it just 130%..

I'm trying out Naked Brutality on extreme and not randomizing colonists + random landing, failed 2 times so far, the struggle is fun though

First thing that stands out to me, though, is that steel looks more like bags of something rather than steel plates, a really minor thing, but the old one was a lot better and clearer imo
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.

We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.

Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: East on June 26, 2018, 12:06:06 PM
When a centipede equipped with an inferono cannon drops, you will see hell. It does not die horribly. Even if the colonist has enough firepower with the EMP, it is strong enough to make it into the fire.
I had a brick wall and a fire extinguisher, but all the warehouses burned.

Those at 1.0 against b18 were more than twice as strong.

I hate them.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Kuranu on June 26, 2018, 12:11:33 PM
I went through the effort of researching the entire path towards autocannons and then building one and was terribly disappointed. I was fighting a 6 man raid, 4 of them were with guns and so didn't ever go past the minimum range, meaning that the autocannon could shoot them at all times. During the fight it shot 45 shots and hit 1 shot which didn't have any impact on the battle. Afterwards it needed 200+ steel to reload despite not being useful at all. I am just absolutely done with autocannons forever unless something is changed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 12:17:57 PM
Still trucking on armored warrior fort:

One thing that definitely needs to change is the effort needed to research plate mail.  Going head on to fight the enemy and take hits without cheesing is already reckless, so if someone wants to go that route it should be accessible. 

Right now, with a 9 researcher with industrious trait going full time in a clean lab, I was not able to get plate researched until day 10.  This also delaying general research because I'm needing to skip microelectronics to get there.  And I still need machining to research helmets xD  So as it stands, the second raid, the first real one, you may not even have been able to build any armor!

The actual material cost to build, 210 metal + 600 work, feels fine, though.  Being able to have more than one heavy by the first real fight might be too good.

Will update as I go to battle :D
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.

We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.

Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.


Countering against theocrafting, it is untrue that in less than a year's time Sieges will be bringing Snipers.

(https://i.imgur.com/n3kNqZh.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/muJLlKJ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WdQexyr.png)


People here like TheMeinTeam can come and make false statements and then "edit" them out when they realized they had no real back up in their comments before Ramsis see them.

But based on authentic experience, I tell you again, Sieges are not hard even in Extreme difficulty, and also notice, I had zero pets in combat as opposed to the other's response saying so.

Any tribal colony CAN beat a Siege with Great bows, the largest range the enemy had was "1" single Bold action rifle.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 26, 2018, 12:30:53 PM
My impression about new armor system:

- It is not intuitive and I wasted more time on understanding it than I am ready to admit. Even "three-way roll armor system" forum post did not helped much at first and I had to return to it couple of times. The system itself seems very simple, so I blame it on explanation that could be made much better, especially in the game itself (ingame info made me more confused really).

- In general I liked it and how it affected my gameplay. It allowed some more brave moves w/o fear of losing my soldiers to extreme bleedings and blown out brains/hearts/livers.

- I liked how some weapons changed damage to more reasonable (IRL-comparable) values. I did not liked how assault rifles now shot slow two bullet bursts (it should be 1 shot or 3 shot burst - just pick one and stick with it).

- What is the design idea behind 50% blunt damage? Why not 33%, 25% or some variable? After some tests I feel like 50% is too much damage left.

And unrelated note - what's up with switching graphics on machine pistol and heavy SMG? I dont like it. Before I could imagine that "heavy SMG" is just some weird upscaled TEC-9'ish SMG with big bullets... now I straight know that they both fire 9mm pistol ammo and there is no explanation to why they deal 2x different damage. Current stats of heavy SMG is definitely not Uzi - it heavily damages my suspension of disbelief inside of this game. Those stats are for FN P90... can we has it? Please?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 26, 2018, 12:34:02 PM
Question: Is there a way to remove/mitigate Soft Sand at the moment so that you can build on it? Or am I stuck with that space being unusable?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 12:40:23 PM
Question: Is there a way to remove/mitigate Soft Sand at the moment so that you can build on it? Or am I stuck with that space being unusable?

Moisture pumps.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 26, 2018, 12:57:00 PM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.

Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.

This happens for any iterator method (methods returning IEnumerable). I'm not sure why, but I can imagine the annotation is there to make clear that the method displayed has a hidden object inside it.

@Nightinggale The problem of not being able to patch the method is ...
Oops. Seems like it was an issue with my Harmony skills rather than RimWorld. Sorry about sending you searching your code for a problem, which isn't there  :-[

I have to say I'm fairly impressed with your new patching code. I tried reimplementing B18 patching and it turns out that applying an empty sequence takes 5 times as long as a 1.0 patch, which changes construction cost of a building. I assume this has to do with the loop overhead (it can't really be anything else) and I have to admit that I did not predict that to be slower than xpath searching since xpath searching is the performance killer in B18. You truly came up with the right design for patching. Good job.

I have to admit I had a moment of feeling obsolete, though that's not really the case. I can still mod to patch faster than vanilla as well as all the other features, like patching profiling. It's just not as much of a notable performance boost as it was in B18.


And I will like to repeat that it's annoying having to pick 64 bit each time the game starts from steam. It would be nice to have it pick for you without the window. Factorio managed to pick 32/64 automatically without asking, meaning it should be possible to do so. Admittedly Factorio dropped 32 bit support due to technical (memory?) issues, but it was picking automatically at some point.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: bbqftw on June 26, 2018, 01:00:56 PM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.

We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.

Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.


Countering against theocrafting, it is untrue that in less than a year's time Sieges will be bringing Snipers.

(https://i.imgur.com/n3kNqZh.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/muJLlKJ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WdQexyr.png)


People here like TheMeinTeam can come and make false statements and then "edit" them out when they realized they had no real back up in their comments before Ramsis see them.

But based on authentic experience, I tell you again, Sieges are not hard even in Extreme difficulty, and also notice, I had zero pets in combat as opposed to the other's response saying so.

Any tribal colony CAN beat a Siege with Great bows, the largest range the enemy had was "1" single Bold action rifle.

in b18 month 3-4 siege would typically bring snipers/multiple BAR. Do you realize that sample size = 1 means very little?

Its possible that 1.0 changed raid point generation and scaling so it is less likely to happen. But you can make the point in much less hostile terms, and your single sample doesn't mean everyone else is a liar.

It is funny, you post with assumption that you are the best player around. And yet you have much to learn (as do must of us).

(Incidentally, I started playing extreme/tribal 3 weeks into playing this game, with some games taking zero sharp hits for several years, and I am awful player, don't bring it up as an end all be all argument. It certainly doesn't connote full game mastery and the right to bypass making actually good arguments.)

PS you take a siege that literally sets up at top 1% RNG position in range of your high cover and you claim all sieges are easy? Surely you have to be trolling right? Instead of bragging I would analyze whether I made any mistakes in taking a hit.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 26, 2018, 01:02:14 PM
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...

The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.

I can fully support this. Please keep it this way!

I'm playing only naked survivor for testing. I really like the start with an absolute minimum.
My last playthrough went pretty far (extreme, permadeath) until I got massacred by 4 scythers. It all started with 1 or 2 weak raids early, then I got a second colonist and the next raid was 4 pirates with knifes and pistols. Afterwards the raid sizes really went up, but I wouldn't say it is too difficult as it was manageable without a killbox or any gun research. Only the scyther raid was really strong and killed everyone. But I think I could have prepared better with a few traps so nothing that would really need more heavy adjustments.

Besides that the 4 scythers killed 6 colonists (greatbow, revolver, chain shotgun, maces) easily (despite door cheese), I can't give much feedback to the new armor system. I will do so later when I have some experience with it.

Watermills now are more fair. I started around 10 river maps and checked building spots and played two short games with them. Most of the time there are still enough building spots to get really good power and to even rely only on them. This limits the fun for me a bit, since it should be more like recreation where a good mix of sources is what to aim for, but I can live with the current way. It just takes the reason to research batteries and removes the threat of the battery shortcircuit event.

It does only make limited sense that the soaking wet mood is applied to naked colonists. Even more when it is 30°C and irl they would be more happy for the refreshment. It doesn't really affect gameplay anymore since it is only -3 mood for a few hours, but it feels weird, so I thought this is worth mentioning.

Anyway, great work so far! Also a lot of the code changes make modding life easier. Updating all the smaller changes in old mods is a necessary pain and it's fine for me. I heard complaints about it but as a programmer I understand the reasons behind it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: wad67 on June 26, 2018, 01:06:16 PM
I recently had a drop pod raid, right in the middle of my underground base, Cassandra rough.
Was this prevalent in previous releases? I found it peculiar that the drop pods were able to penetrate through overhead mountains on some tiles.
Granted, there was a few rock roofs(thin) and maybe a couple of constructed roofs.

Not sure if this was intentional or already present in previous versions.

EDIT:

Apologies, I had already asked this question a few years ago.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tass237 on June 26, 2018, 01:14:24 PM
(played in the last few hours, Cassandra, Rough, Crashland)

Regarding Autocannon turrets, it seems to me they are more effective than two miniturrets, both in range and stopping power. 
I tested in both open fields and in a "killbox".
I haven't had that many tests yet, and mostly against few targets, so it may go the other way with massed opponents, but autocannon > 2 miniturrets. This makes sense with the cost ratio. I think I would use them in a more normal play-through, though I may have to figure out the best arrangement.

I like that the rain causing a debuff makes roofing exterior walkways and bunkers useful again, as I haven't bothered since darkness stopped being a defense buff.

I also quite like the reordering of the skills. It makes it easier to figure out how useful a pawn is.

Unlike animals, there is no stat on a "wild man" (or woman) that tells you how likely they are to become hostile on a failed taming attempt (Unless I missed it). It only tells you in the alert when you first mark them to tame.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
First battle with plate result (vs 6 tribals):

On the one hand, my guy in plate mail, advanced helmet, and plasteel gladius got downed (not killed).  On the other hand, he repelled the raid mostly by himself as I did not have the time to properly gear everyone else.  It feels like it's working well.

The bruising mechanic feels like it needs some tuning.  Even though he ended up with only 3 cuts, he ended up with 8 bruises, which is why he got downed fairly quickly.  I think successful deflections should have a chance of no bruise, like maybe 50/50, possibly even as high as 2/3.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 26, 2018, 01:22:54 PM
My theory is that the new armor hit graphics and sounds are sweet, especially on mechanoids.  It's really clear when shots don't penetrate.  The stagger on hit is a nice touch, too. 

Was avoiding autocannons because of the min. range.  Built one outside, with some sandbags around it for troops, and it got directly attacked by a small group of tribals.  It fired 8 shots before the tribals could get in range.  A total of 14 shots, of which 2 hit.  One hit destroyed torso/heart and the other blew off a foot (probably overkill for shooting at humans).  When the tribals took cover to use bows, they conveniently stayed outside of the autocannon's minimum range.  Would be great on Scythers and snipers since the range is roughly the same.

First impression is that the range and the fire rate is pretty strong, and finally gives some reason to make outdoor combined arms strongpoints as opposed to killboxes.  The steel cost is heavy, and autocannon turrets cannot be relocated, so I wouldn't consider building these until all my pawns are fully equipped.  Maybe as a late-game way to reduce mechanoids at a distance, before you have to engage with pawns and start risking injuries.  Definitely want to make combined autocannon/mini-turret/soldier fort later on.  It would be nice if the min. range would be shown when going to build it.

e.  Just noticed that mortar and mini turret have their own storage tab now :D
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zajedac on June 26, 2018, 01:27:46 PM
Hello friends!

I've been playing RimWorld for a while now, but only now did I get around to making a forum account.

I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.

I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.

I would also like to see map overlay which would show ground fertility, as distinguishing between fifty shades of brown is sometimes quite hard and difference between stony soil and soil (and the border between rich soil and soil) isn't always obvious.

Thank you for reading this and sorry if my english is bad, it is not my first language.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Nightinggale on June 26, 2018, 01:28:40 PM
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...

The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.

I can fully support this. Please keep it this way!
Some people like it and some people don't. However everything mentioned by Tynan in this quote was modded in B18 and odds are that they will be in 1.0 as well (if not already without me noticing). All the "I want for my playing style" arguments are rather pointless. The real question is how it should work for new players, who haven't played enough to start looking through mods.

Another question is the part about features for modders. For instance the question about not being able to perform surgery on Mechanoids. Apparently it's disabled/removed in the code, making it extra work for modders to enable again. Why isn't it simply disabled in xml? It would have made sense considering it's something, which is modded for B18 and odds are that most B18 mods will be converted to 1.0 mods.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.

I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.

If something like this is changed, please do it as a pre-game choice in the options, maybe require a custom scenario option, 'simple leather', 'simple meat', like Masterwork Dwarf Fortress does.

I like the variety, and the different types of leather and so on. I like the blue fur flavor.. homogenization is anti-fun. I like having a large stockpile and seeing all the different material types.

Also, perhaps let pawns use multiple leather types for one clothing piece?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 26, 2018, 01:47:00 PM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
LoL, its called naked brutality, not naked "walk in the park". Forgive me the off topic and if I might seem a bit blunt, but allow me to draw a parallel here.
In fitness there is something people call "ego lifting", that is the act of lifting more weights than you should, while sacrificing proper form and repetitions, possibly leading to injury. This is kinda the same as "ego playing", that is to play something on the hardest difficulty just because you think you can do it. There is a lot of people that just got used to harder difficulties by just using cheezy techniques, and you know they are cheezy, any raider with more than a peanut for a brain would know not to walk in a suicidal killbox. Regardless don't go playing the game, with a naked start on a freaking frozen wasteland where life indeed shouldn't be possibly, and thinking you are in for fair challenge, because literally it shouldn't be.

I usually like to play on rough chillax, even though there are much less threats in between, its still pretty hard, because believe it or not, I can't rely on raider loot that often, I can't rely on trading either, so year after year I'm counting my food towards starvation by the end of winter. So in turn I get more difficulty in the environmental and survival aspect of it, which is how I like to play. So forget about playing for a difficulty label, and just fucking play the game how you want to play it.

Same deal regarding legendary items, I barely got in +10 skill on some things and I'm seeing some masterworks left and right, not all the time mind you. But why the fuck would you want to fill your base solely with legendary items, like literally, why would that even matter, since people said themselves, there is but a little additional buff to these items. Why people so hung up on using exclusively just prime art work like they live in a freaking museum?

But anyway, sorry if I went blunt off topic.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zajedac on June 26, 2018, 01:50:13 PM
^It could also be a recipe which changes the multiple leathers into light, medium and hard. I understand that some people like the different colours and it may seem nice to them. I dont see a reason why not do this to meat, though.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: drunetovich on June 26, 2018, 01:51:37 PM
Few latest beta run impressions:

1) New armor system seem nice and fair, shotguns now feel kind of weak though, maybe they need to land a longer stun or something
2) There are still too many leather and wool types, and crafting patchwork stuff feel counterproductive
3) Predator hunt for pawns is annoyingly sneaky, early warnings would be welcome
4) Delivery quests are quite perplexing, most of the time asking for things I don't have and not going to have anytime soon if ever. Other times asking 12 cotton t-shirts in exchange for high end unique and powerful items.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 02:03:25 PM
Just got an event for an arcotech legs that is reported to be "unguarded"

:O

:O :O :O :O :O

Increase rewards for trading is great, but for items lying around unguarded, that feels pretty high.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 02:07:07 PM
First battle with plate result (vs 6 tribals):

On the one hand, my guy in plate mail, advanced helmet, and plasteel gladius got downed (not killed).  On the other hand, he repelled the raid mostly by himself as I did not have the time to properly gear everyone else.  It feels like it's working well.

The bruising mechanic feels like it needs some tuning.  Even though he ended up with only 3 cuts, he ended up with 8 bruises, which is why he got downed fairly quickly.  I think successful deflections should have a chance of no bruise, like maybe 50/50, possibly even as high as 2/3.

How do you decide how much bruising is "too much"?  I like the idea that there is a state between "bad/infection-prone injury" and "no damage whatsoever", still with at least some consequence if you soak in "too many" hits. 

Or put another way, on average how many hits would be reasonable to take before bruising/pain downs based on your estimation?  Knowing that this has to scale onto both player armor and raider armor, I'd rather see the game err on the side of doing more damage than less on grounds that each movement choice matters more and battles are less of a grind, but you can take damage too far too.

But what criteria decides how much is too much or too little?  I ask because I struggle to conceive it.  Broadly speaking, Tynan could pick anything in the range where the weapon variants are still relevant and I wouldn't have a basis for preferring a 25% bruise rate to a 95% bruise rate...what makes one "better" than the other?

Also how did you fight the tribals?  Constantly fighting 3v1 in a doorway 6x is very different from "6 tribals surround and pound one guy in plate armor".

Quote
In fitness there is something people call "ego lifting", that is the act of lifting more weights than you should, while sacrificing proper form and repetitions, possibly leading to injury. This is kinda the same as "ego playing", that is to play something on the hardest difficulty just because you think you can do it.

That's pretty disingenuous.  There's a difference between loading one plate too many and the machine electrocuting you when you sit down.  If the game is lifting weights, you expect to lift weights, not to wear insulation/run a marathon/engage in underwater horseback riding.

Same goes with Rimworld.  Events that are the gym equivalent of a dude running up and belly flopping onto the bar while you're trying to do bench press are out of place.  That's not the kind of game Rimworld is :).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bones on June 26, 2018, 02:12:53 PM
Also, perhaps let pawns use multiple leather types for one clothing piece?

But you can, there is a bill to patch different leather together, it's called make patchleather, requires 50 if other leather types of I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 02:18:18 PM
Nothing fancy.  Just set up some defenses around some rocky areas so at the very least I can turn a corner into their faces behind some sandbags.  No door games, though, so it's not "perfect play".  but most people going for heavy armor before deadfalls probably aren't going to be playing perfectly either.

As for how much bruising is good.  That's a tough call to say without doing another battle.  Less than what it currently is, as even when you hit power armor, you will get downed very quickly, since bruising was what mostly caused my being downed.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 26, 2018, 02:22:27 PM
Now for a more objective post about actual issues. and sorry for double post, but I like to keep them separate

Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.
I've also been noticing this, mental brakes seems to be happening a lot more like random events now, I usually have near full mood bars and yet some mental brakes happen there, which is somewhat nonsensical. I though I had a picture of this as well, but unfortunately I can't find it.

Quote
Multianalizer now doesn't need advanced components
I dislike that, in fact I think there are plenty of opportunities to get advanced components before hand. It felt as good tech divisor. You can easily get adv components from mechanoids, and I even get a trade quest with x19 adv components as rewards, which seems crazy really.

Quote
You shouldn't been facing Mechanoids with bolt rifles
I've faced about tree fallen mechs so far, with rifles because I just ain't at that tech level yet. It was alright even though centipedes are such brutal damage sponges, one time it spawned three centipedes which felt unreasonable, however scyther and lancer are a dangerous though manageable opponents. Thing is, it would make sense if its because of their high armor rating, which I didn't know if it was in the game already. Making use of EMP grenades is a good tactic, though unreliable since they can gain immunity back. And also if they have a rocket launcher in between its pretty devastating.

Quote
Armor rating/piercing
Again, would make a lot more sense, as I've said earlier, the place armor didn't seem to have any advantage over regular flak vest/pants, I haven't tested the latest builds so I won't comment on it.
Though I have to ask once more time, to move armor into their own category separate from clothing, so you can, you know, smelt and recycle. Also only a nut would wear plate armor without any clothing underneath, it would also make sense so they can have some sort of insulation.

I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.

I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.

I would also like to see map overlay which would show ground fertility, as distinguishing between fifty shades of brown is sometimes quite hard and difference between stony soil and soil (and the border between rich soil and soil) isn't always obvious.
The way its going I really that's how it will end, but with a difference between light/medium/heavy and regular/furry/scaley(?) leather, it seems though a lot of the conventional leathers are still in the game for compatibility purposes. They are also likely to make the same change for meats since so many people are asking.
Regarding ground fertility, I would also think its a good idea, to have a visual overlay for when making growing zones, it would a huge QoL thing but may not be so easy to implement.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 02:25:15 PM
Update on armor:


Crafted a plasteel plate armor out of curiosity and that is... some pretty crazy protection.  A normal set was 94.5% sharp protection, and even 80% blunt.  With current bruising, that is somewhat balanced, but I'm guessing this is not intended.

Edit: Actually 40% blunt, that was heat.  Still, pretty crazy stuff.

Edit:  Also side observation:  Just noticed plate covers the neck.  That does make going against tribals somewhat less suicidal than I was expecting.  So that's good :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 02:26:14 PM
Quote
Multianalizer now doesn't need advanced components
I dislike that, in fact I think there are plenty of opportunities to get advanced components before hand. It felt as good tech divisor. You can easily get adv components from mechanoids, and I even get a trade quest with x19 adv components as rewards, which seems crazy really.


Not sure where you're finding all these advanced components. I've never seen a single one even on my colonies that have made it an entire year ( I restart a lot, trying different stuff.) I think that was a good change.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 02:28:46 PM
Nothing fancy.  Just set up some defenses around some rocky areas so at the very least I can turn a corner into their faces behind some sandbags.  No door games, though, so it's not "perfect play".  but most people going for heavy armor before deadfalls probably aren't going to be playing perfectly either.

As for how much bruising is good.  That's a tough call to say without doing another battle.  Less than what it currently is, as even when you hit power armor, you will get downed very quickly, since bruising was what mostly caused my being downed.

Perhaps, but the ability to get downed via bruising (less infection risk, reliable survival as long as you survive the raid ultimately) is by itself a BIG deal, especially since raider ignore downed pawns.  Even with 100% bruise rate, this is still a substantial benefit.  I'd suggest quite a lot of playing around with this before making too many conclusions, even as a player, even if we assume it will never change.  It's a meta-shifting design concept. 

If my old save works I'll give it a good spin since I still have multiple power armors from my early run on ancient dangers, and enemy raids are also starting to scale into armor so I can give these a good stress test on both sides.

Quote
Not sure where you're finding all these advanced components. I've never seen a single one even on my colonies that have made it an entire year ( I restart a lot, trying different stuff.) I think that was a good change.

Most typically you'd get one within 1-2 years since mech ships drop them, so it wasn't a big deal.  I still think it's a good change as it would be problematic for people playing phoebe on lower difficulties (mech ship might not happen/be delayed a lot).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 02:34:34 PM
Regarding the multianalyzer, remember that this is something unaffected by difficulty settings, and so you have to treat this in a more casual way.  It is a bit too hardcore to lock out someone playing on basebuilder from most of the research tree for a potentially very long time.  So I consider it a good change.

Edit: blugh, ninja
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 26, 2018, 02:45:25 PM
Regarding the difficulty. You need a game mode that is close to unwinnable because it adds a skill cap. It definetly by far isn't unwinnable. I survived an entire first year without any healroot or meds for anything besides what I got from traders and it was just for infections. After the first year I finally had a real grower. There isn't anything unfair about anything. The biggest things that were unfair are gone.


There are plenty of things that are stupidly difficult. But that is what you sign up for on naked brutal extreme in a cold biome. Personally even though I can do that... I prefer the tribal colony on rough difficulty. Lets me watch tv and play and go for more design over functionality decisions. Plus I can explore things like caravan. If I feel like getting my ass beat in I like the fact that I might loose a naked brutal in the ice sheet 10 times over before I figure out how to win. Adds to the satisfaction of victory.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 26, 2018, 02:51:45 PM
Regarding the multianalyzer, remember that this is something unaffected by difficulty settings, and so you have to treat this in a more casual way.  It is a bit too hardcore to lock out someone playing on basebuilder from most of the research tree for a potentially very long time.  So I consider it a good change.
Not sure where you're finding all these advanced components. I've never seen a single one even on my colonies that have made it an entire year ( I restart a lot, trying different stuff.) I think that was a good change.
Like it was said, you can get one easy from mechanoids ships (and maybe disassembly). One year is indeed way too early, unless you're beelining for the higher techs. Besides mechs, I'm pretty sure you can get them other ways, like trades and quests.

Quote
In fitness there is something people call "ego lifting", that is the act of lifting more weights than you should, while sacrificing proper form and repetitions, possibly leading to injury. This is kinda the same as "ego playing", that is to play something on the hardest difficulty just because you think you can do it.

That's pretty disingenuous.  There's a difference between loading one plate too many and the machine electrocuting you when you sit down.  If the game is lifting weights, you expect to lift weights, not to wear insulation/run a marathon/engage in underwater horseback riding.

Same goes with Rimworld.  Events that are the gym equivalent of a dude running up and belly flopping onto the bar while you're trying to do bench press are out of place.  That's not the kind of game Rimworld is :).
But it is, you shouldn't be going into the higher difficulty expecting to have a grand'ol time. People playing on normal difficulties are already under constant threat of something going awfully wrong, and not only that there are degrees of difficulty, but you shouldn't be going into the worst possible difficulty settings, on the worse possible biome, with the worse starting conditions, and expecting anything but dread. And I can see how some people will like playing the game this way, but just don't go higher difficulty just because its there, pick something you will actually enjoy.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: x7GoSu on June 26, 2018, 03:13:20 PM
On my current start of naked brutality day 6 of Cass/Hard a refugee was chased in incapable of violence. Raider spawned in with a normal flak vest plainleather pants and patched leather cowboyhat/buttondown shirt. I had a short bow and some regular clothing taken from a previous raid. Took close to 20 mins IRL of kiting trying to kill this guy. The flak has 100% sharp protection. I'm assuming that's what kept this guy alive for so long. I saved before the raid and replayed it a 5 times. Each time taking roughly the same amount time. Although I lost once due to a misclick and another time due to hitting an emu and it going manhuter on me lol. Some other things I've noted is that the passive cooler still says it will vanish after several days which is no longer the case. None of the power generators list their output. As a "new player" I would like to know their output w/o having to build each one. Also with gutworms (or any disease) possibly showing the info about treatmeants until healed, so new players don't feel like "is this crap ever going to go away" and they have a sense of making progress toward it.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Lanilor on June 26, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.

I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.

If something like this is changed, please do it as a pre-game choice in the options, maybe require a custom scenario option, 'simple leather', 'simple meat', like Masterwork Dwarf Fortress does.

I like the variety, and the different types of leather and so on. I like the blue fur flavor.. homogenization is anti-fun. I like having a large stockpile and seeing all the different material types.

Also, perhaps let pawns use multiple leather types for one clothing piece?

You can craft patchwork leather (or how it is called now) at the tailor bench. Using multiple leathers would be too complicated and negates the use of patchwork leather as a mixed but weaker type.

Otherwise I agree with you. A bit abstrahation like the lightleather and plainleather are nice to keep quantity down, but variety is nice and gives it more depth. I think the current leather system is ok It could be a few less, but it doesn't have to. Something like this for meat would be nice. Like we have birdmeat and in addition to that there could be a meat type for small game like squirrels and rats, maybe even raccons and so on. Just to get a number of roughly around 10 or 15 different type sounds fine.

Btw, I like the new fixed faction colors on the world map. It's just a minor detail, but it was a bit annoying when the random generator picked almost similar colors for different factions.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 03:43:44 PM
On my current start of naked brutality day 6 of Cass/Hard a refugee was chased in incapable of violence. Raider spawned in with a normal flak vest plainleather pants and patched leather cowboyhat/buttondown shirt. I had a short bow and some regular clothing taken from a previous raid. Took close to 20 mins IRL of kiting trying to kill this guy. The flak has 100% sharp protection. I'm assuming that's what kept this guy alive for so long. I saved before the raid and replayed it a 5 times. Each time taking roughly the same amount time. Although I lost once due to a misclick and another time due to hitting an emu and it going manhuter on me lol. Some other things I've noted is that the passive cooler still says it will vanish after several days which is no longer the case. None of the power generators list their output. As a "new player" I would like to know their output w/o having to build each one. Also with gutworms (or any disease) possibly showing the info about treatmeants until healed, so new players don't feel like "is this crap ever going to go away" and they have a sense of making progress toward it.

Yeah, I was surprised after crafting my first pieces of flak armor. Didn't expect it to have so much sharp armor %. Of course after crafting 3 sets, I got a pirate raid of 18 people vs my 5 guys. I kind of chose to get raided since I gave safe haven to one of my colonist's mother (she was a refugee asking for help through the radio). No casualties, so the flak vest and pants seem pretty useful. I only had to kill about 8 raiders before the rest ran away, which was nice. I chased down 2 more raiders out of spite and killed them before they ran off the map.  >:(

Lol, you hit an emu during fighting and it went manhunter? That's pretty funny. Power generators listing their output before it's built would be very handy. Same with gutworms treatment info. When I first started playing rimworld, I had quite a few browsers opened for rimworld wiki and alt tabbed a lot during gameplay just to search for something that didn't have the info I was wondering about in game. It's not too big of a deal for me since I'm used to doing so from previous games anyway but it would be a nice addition.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ReZpawner on June 26, 2018, 04:00:32 PM
Can we get like an animal shrink or something to stop by? Every two minutes, another animal goes nuts. I'm starting to get worried about their mental health.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 04:03:55 PM
Had another raid, 8 gun raiders vs 4 my guys in steel/plasteel with plasteel gladiuses.  Repelled, but two guy kidnapped.  I didn't really use any strategy other than surprise jumping them, although it was raining.  I think crafting uber plasteel armor made the raid unusually big, though.

It still kind of feels like bruising is too strong: You're going to be dumping 2k+ steel/plasteel into gear, which means you're not going to have much in the way of security or tech.  I think at the very least you should be able to easily repel the first couple raids thrown at you, even using no strategy at all, snice you're set back a lot.

Upon thinking about this further, I think a good balance would be to have the adjusted armor after weapons subtract from bruising chance.  Something like, 100% - the adjusted amount/1.5

E.g.  if you have 90% sharp resist, and someone attacks you with something that has 30% piecing, you'd have a 100 - (90-30)/1.5 = 60% chance of bruising on deflection.  This counters the somewhat silly situation of revolvers bruising you always with high end plasteel plate.  Or perhaps just reducing said bruising damage rather than as a chance of bruising or not.

Ultimately a more effective strategy is having enemies shoot at a turret while you snipe them at range and repair your turret behind a wall, so it's not like this would be powerful anyways. 

Plate with current bruising balancing would probably just have a niche role of repelling melee tribal swarms or something, although they tend to have a lot of blunt.  And probably decent for early caravans.

Anyways, I think I've got a good feel for banzai attacking.  I'll check out the autoturrets now.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Robc on June 26, 2018, 04:07:51 PM
@1.0 standard scenario, Cassandra "rough"  re: taming regression experience

Had a polar bear and wolf go wild on me in tundra in middle of first winter, ok, those little emergencies are exactly what keeps this game interesting.  I applaud that the animal tame regress mechanic now provides for overall better game balance. I thought perhaps rescuing and then feeding them after I downed them would give me a chance to retame.  No luck.  Two less mouths to feed and a little more meat on the table then I guess. 

The sad part was that before going feral they were very well fed in an otherwise completely barren environment.  After going wild they were starving and stalked my pawns rather than take a little hand out food.  I never had a chance to even try to tame them again, they were too ravenous and just attacked the nearest pawns.  I think a higher chance to revert back to tamed should be considered after going wild.  If they keep their per pawn social preference stats after reverting to wild then a previous well loved master approaching with food should quickly bring them back into the fold imo.  Next time I might also try leaving some meat on the doorstep until they are less ravenous and less likely to attack first... learning by experience, the gold standard for RW.  I still hope the animals retrain somewhat easier then a fully wild animal, perhaps that is already incorporated and working as designed.  I thought the story worth relating.

Love the game, particularly the difficulty, don't love everything about 1.0 but on whole it is going in right direction, same comment on recent adjustments.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 04:11:24 PM
Quote
But it is, you shouldn't be going into the higher difficulty expecting to have a grand'ol time. People playing on normal difficulties are already under constant threat of something going awfully wrong, and not only that there are degrees of difficulty, but you shouldn't be going into the worst possible difficulty settings, on the worse possible biome, with the worse starting conditions, and expecting anything but dread. And I can see how some people will like playing the game this way, but just don't go higher difficulty just because its there, pick something you will actually enjoy.

Always good advice to play where you enjoy...but I actually *like* playing around raid sizes of 15+ by 5501, or floundering trying to live 3 vs 8.  The complaints in this thread weren't about that, but rather about pure RNG death...which has subsequently been largely mitigated in the 1.0 iterations following.

In essence, it's fine to punish someone for loading too many weights, but that game should still be about lifting.  In Rimworld, your outcomes are almost solely contingent on how well you prepare before events and how well you execute during them.  Even when it's unfair.  Even when the smallest mistake can end your run. 

In this regard, stuff that TRULY kills you or punishes you without counterplay is extremely rare and runs counter to 99% of what makes up playing Rimworld.  There is almost always a way out, had you prepared in advance.  The argument before was more "the game tells you not to push for the ideal pawn, but some of these new implementations require that"...Tynan acknowledged this and tuned the game.

Basically, if you die it's your fault again, and that's the way it should be :D.

The principle misconception is that lack of agency = challenge.  It's the opposite: lack of agency is a skill equalizer and antithetical to challenge.  Challenge arises when the agency you do have is non-trivial to identify and/or execute.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: fritzgryphon on June 26, 2018, 04:17:34 PM
Bug:  Turbulence penalty from other watermill persists after the interfering watermill is removed.


(https://i.imgur.com/6IT7Jj6.png)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 04:37:52 PM
Subjective impressions of last night's gameplay (NB/Boreal Forest/Cassandra Rough - completed game Year 1 into Year 2):

-Having Non-Tribal Outlander factions being Hostile with each other is great for memorable events in a way that I don't remember B18 being;  I had two factions with Caravans show up almost simultaneously, and had an unexpected firefight with each other.  One faction guard was toting an Incendiary Launcher, and lit parts of my 2-Pawn Base on fire...hilarity ensued.

The final casualty toll was 7 dead Faction members from both sides, 2 wounded (who were from the same faction - these were patched up, and faction relations improved), with tons of dropped loot from both caravans. 

A note about this: grabbing the dropped weaponry they left upgraded my ranged capability in a way that I probably wouldn't have been able to do for at least another 2 game years at my current tech/research rate.  I went from 2 Short Bows to enough Chain/Pump Shotguns, Machine Pistols and Incendiaries (Molotovs and Launchers) to equip an 8-Pawn Colony.  I'm not complaining, and will happily accept the upgrade...it just felt like something for nothing:  I saved my wooden base and crops from burning down, and got an unexpected and significant windfall of material and weaponry.



-The map on my biome is *loaded* with predators...more than I've ever seen in B18: I love this. At one point, I think there were 3 Grizzlies, 2 Wargs, 2 Lynxes, and at least another 2-3 Wolves on the map (a Warg and a Lynx both attempted to hunt my colonists when I got careless, and forgot to check the map beforehand for danger).

An observation: it feels like Predators are dying of infection too easily.  I just completed my first game year, and didn't have to hunt for food once:  I scavanged the dead bodies of animals exclusively to survive the first winter, and a significant, maybe even a majority amount were large predators who died of infections from their hunts.  The result is that I have a substantial surplus of meat, and a surplus of leathers/furs for extreme temperatures.  Even if my colony size increases from 2 to 6 very rapidly, no one is going to starve for a while...and, most significantly, there was very little to no risk involved.

None of these are complaints in any way: just observations about how gameplay feels up to this point.  I'm having a blast with this current game.  And I still have only 4 Herbal Medicine. :)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: klun on June 26, 2018, 04:39:18 PM
Randy/extreme swamp biome - Rich explorer

hostiles Pawns moving at same speed no matter the tile /marsh - Even when I was walking for the path and they were chassing me

Ancient cryptobasket with a hive inside  megaspider pretty much ignored the slaves pawn inside (1 was dead ,1 downed the other one escaped)

Since now we have the armor system / it would be kind of nice to have a more dynamic stats for weapons/armors defletc- perhaps as your shoooting skills advance or with some advance helmets

so far 3 raids and Im still alive,I report later perhaps with some new armor/turret feedback.




Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 04:40:55 PM
Hmmmm my dog got the plague, and i can't use first aid until the dog goes to the animal bed; what i mean is it loses so much time before i can treat the dog. Maybe  an action "goes to your bed" (being the owner of the dog could be an idea) could fix some pets problems ?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 04:49:27 PM
Hmmmm my dog got the plague, and i can't use first aid until the dog goes to the animal bed; what i mean is it loses so much time before i can treat the dog. Maybe  an action "goes to your bed" (being the owner of the dog could be an idea) could fix some pets problems ?

I've yet to tame my first animal in 1.0, but the old solution to this was to set up a medical bill for that animal (Anesthetize), and then order a pawn to take it to an Animal Bed/Sleeping spot so the animal would stop walking around.  You'd then cancel the "Anesthetize" order on the Medical Bill, and order a colonist to treat the now-stationary animal.  My guess is that this would still work with 1.0.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Crow_T on June 26, 2018, 05:19:29 PM
Some random thoughts:
Legendary/Masterwork change is good IMO, logic behind it is sound.

Animals: I feel as though the different training categories could have different variables. Obedience could fade away slowest and/or only require trainer time* as opposed to food. The other categories would require food/ more upkeep. Perhaps a system where animals with multiple skills, or each more important skill, requires a higher level trainer.

* have animal play time as both a joy source and obedience recharge.

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Crow_T on June 26, 2018, 05:30:33 PM
Some random thoughts:
Legendary/Masterwork change is good IMO, logic behind it is sound.

Animals: I feel as though the different training categories could have different variables. Obedience could fade away slowest and/or only require trainer time* as opposed to food (play experience- early food going to starting animals for training is a bit rough). The other categories would require food/ more upkeep. Perhaps a system where animals with multiple skills, or each more important skill, requires a higher level trainer.

* have animal play time as both a joy source and obedience recharge.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: cactusmeat on June 26, 2018, 05:35:10 PM
Shouldn't the workLeft for smoothing stone walls (and floors if possible) be stored in the Things themselves rather than the JobDrivers? It seems odd that interrupting somebody's smoothing job just magically reverts all of that person's progress on smoothing stone stuff.

with how long it takes to plant trees also, this would be nice
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: PatrykSzczescie on June 26, 2018, 05:53:02 PM
Has anyone tested if caravaning gives more food than staying in the base?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 05:55:19 PM
Hmmmm my dog got the plague, and i can't use first aid until the dog goes to the animal bed; what i mean is it loses so much time before i can treat the dog. Maybe  an action "goes to your bed" (being the owner of the dog could be an idea) could fix some pets problems ?

I've yet to tame my first animal in 1.0, but the old solution to this was to set up a medical bill for that animal (Anesthetize), and then order a pawn to take it to an Animal Bed/Sleeping spot so the animal would stop walking around.  You'd then cancel the "Anesthetize" order on the Medical Bill, and order a colonist to treat the now-stationary animal.  My guess is that this would still work with 1.0.

Yup seems like it still works, thanks for the tip !

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 05:57:26 PM
Well about quests, isn't that too much requests ? i mean it feels like i get some every rimworld days . Is that intentional or still require some balance about ?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ardshael on June 26, 2018, 06:01:58 PM
Resurrector serum should remove "witnessed allys death" as well as resurrecting the pawn. After all, the pawn is no longer dead. Heck, if anything they should get a slight happiness that they aren't dead anymore.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Gfurst on June 26, 2018, 06:10:55 PM
Well about quests, isn't that too much requests ? i mean it feels like i get some every rimworld days . Is that intentional or still require some balance about ?
Yeah it feels like they're too often, even though don't have to fulfill them at all. It add to variety, but I've guess it could be tuned down. Maybe a countdown?

Has anyone tested if caravaning gives more food than staying in the base?
I highly doubt that's the case, but someone could do the testing with high skilled growers. Thing is, the "days of food" stat seem to account for foraging capacity, so in most of cases even when there was high foraging we would still run out of food eventually.

Animals: I feel as though the different training categories could have different variables. Obedience could fade away slowest and/or only require trainer time* as opposed to food. The other categories would require food/ more upkeep. Perhaps a system where animals with multiple skills, or each more important skill, requires a higher level trainer.
It may be only my impression, but it seems that the higher training decays first. And it feels pretty low too, I stopped training one of my fully trained dogs (wildness 0), for a like a year already and its training barely dropped at all.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mihsan on June 26, 2018, 06:57:27 PM
I greatly underestimated how awesome this new armor system. At first I was sure that anything from flak vest to power armor will work exactly the same with constant 50% blunt damage... And then I see this manhunting event with 11 alpha beavers whille I have only 2 brawlers and 1 charge rifle on an open field. My fear was that I will get overrun in no time. Pawn in flak vest gets downed very fast with a lot of bleeding wounds. Two pawns in power armor get decent number of zero damage hits and some light bruises w/o going above medium pain. My skepticism is gone: love this new system and how power armor works in it.

Another note: I saw penetration stats on tribal weapons and they are disturbingly high. Is this for balansing reasons?

Also: how about armor on walls and turrets?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: wastelandr on June 26, 2018, 07:04:59 PM
Played v .1946 with NB on Randy Hard
Picked a random starting location (Arid Shrubland, permanent summer) with small hills. I got a Wanderer joins on the first day. The 2 pawns complimented each other nicely. I decided to not act like tribals and instead get electricity up and running asap. I was short on components but the next day a chased refugee that was a Digger appeared and I took him. He mined the components well and constructed and planted decently. Unfortunately he was a drug addict. We got a windmill generator, a cook stove and even a freezer running with a nice plot of rice in rich soil near the base. We were working on building separate bedrooms from scavenged slate blocks when things took a turn for the worse. A heat wave hit and the original pawn died of heatstroke after several mental breaks and long wanders out in the heat. The second pawn was killed in a fire fight versus a raider with a revolver. She had a machine pistol that she had walked in with but the range and accuracy on the revolver was too much better than her weapon and down she went. The drug addicted digger died last, downed by withdrawal with no one to care for him. He starved to death.

It was a good play experience although short. I think the resources and animals and plants on the map were well balanced. There were some but not too many, resources really mattered but were manageable, which is exactly what I would expect on a resource constrained biome. I don't think I could have managed the outcome much better though. The odds were stacked against us pretty hard from the start and my goal wasn't to win (escape) but rather to see how long I could survive.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Alenerel on June 26, 2018, 07:17:16 PM
Since you added that feature where if you select several raiders it shows what weapons they have, it would be nice if it also showed how many of them there are. For example, if there are two pistols, show a x2 in the pistol icon.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 07:55:12 PM
Well about quests, isn't that too much requests ? i mean it feels like i get some every rimworld days . Is that intentional or still require some balance about ?
Yeah it feels like they're too often, even though don't have to fulfill them at all. It add to variety, but I've guess it could be tuned down. Maybe a countdown?

Well B18 quests were perfect for the timing imo, making each one of them important;
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Bones on June 26, 2018, 08:03:40 PM
I'm on Cassandra Hard and 17 raiders just came from pods, 15 of them have either grenades or molotovs. Bye bye colony.

EDIT: Got it somehow, they spent more time blowing up my wall rather than trying to attack my pawns.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: quattheduck on June 26, 2018, 09:39:29 PM
First Post: Came here hoping Tynan would read this.

I think that Thrumbo Rates should be adjusted.  As it stands, Thrumbo Farming is nearly impossible.  For a few patches I've tried it for fun, and it's just not really doable, unless you want to play a 25+ year game.

With recent increases to gestation period, and severe increase to the time it takes to plant/grow trees, keeping thrumbos, and trying to breed them is indeed difficult.

I understand you want the game difficult, but I feel that breeding thrumbos should at least be possible, within 5 years or so, instead 15 years.  I understand you want to add to the mystique of them by making them hard to breed, but I think it would be more fun if they were REALLY DIFFICULT to breed, but not 15 years difficult. 

Thrumbos already have a massive appetite(which makes them not profitable already... but that's fine), and are nearly useless in battle, because they quickly accumulate long term injuries(which makes them weak, even if they survive).

I just think the gestation period, and more importantly, the time it takes to reach adulthood should be tweaked a bit.  The addition of animal hormones(with side effects... that would really fit in with the game). 

I think that having some Thrumbos breeding could be the equivalent of making 30 Gold Large Legendary sculptures.  They could be a symbol of wealth, and another "END GAME" option for players.  As you know, most players don't even finish the game.  Allowing players to create thrumbo farms would be a MUCH more entertaining end game, and resource sink than building gold statues, or floors.  Minimally, it offers diversity, with no real drawbacks(besides slightly demystifying the Thrumbo... but I think the benefits outweigh the costs).
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 26, 2018, 09:51:39 PM
In regards to mood buffs that should be applied, with only the first two being repeats:

1. Colonists that are saved do not get a "IM SAVED" moodlet despite their family members do.
2. Colonists should be totally be happy when their dead friend/family gets revived. I have like, four resurrect serum ready to be used if needed.
3. Colonists should be somewhat psyched if their "pained" part of their body gets fixed. A scar on a limb should get like a +2 whereas someone that's been blinded should be psyched for a quite a while.
4. Colonists that get rif off their addictions should also be somewhat glad they kicked the habit.
5. Considering the recreation drain for caravans, a simple, like 3 day "went travelling for a while" would also be nice.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 10:00:21 PM
It seems that my game has changed difficulty from "Rough (the new Hard)" to "Medium (the old Some Challenge) sometime during the last update, possibly when the game difficulty terms were changed;  I just noticed it by accident.

Others may wish to go in and check their difficulty level, as well;  I'm positive I didn't change this on my own.

Has anyone noted this happening in the forum previously?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Awe on June 26, 2018, 10:07:04 PM
With recent increases to gestation period, and severe increase to the time it takes to plant/grow trees, keeping thrumbos, and trying to breed them is indeed difficult.

Feed them with simple meals, not trees.  :P 4x rations compared to pawn not that difficult.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Boboid on June 26, 2018, 10:23:49 PM
Just my 2 cents worth of gameplay story since I've finally something moderately interesting and different.
---
Decided in a brief moment of insanity to try a Naked Brutality, Transhumanist-only game in a desert, 30/60 growing period, average temp of 12.3 (-4C-29C) (Cass, rough/hard when the change was made).

Early game:
First few months were fairly expectedly brutal but manageable so long as I kept my one colonist inside her tiny room every time an Ostrich or similar decided to take exception to me attempting to shoot it to death with a short bow. More than a few times I was forced to hide inside and repair the door until the manhunting status wore off. The risk of infection was simply too great to be less cautious.
Obtained clothing(Parka included) during my first winter when an escape pod landed nearby with a filthy body-purist in it who clearly deserved death by exposure in the desert and being eaten by megascarabs >.>

Only one point required a piece of divine intervention *coughcheatingcough* when a "pack" of manhunting chickens (one rooster) happened to appear just as my only colonist was rendered incapacitated by food poisoning... from eating raw ostrich for about the 80th time in a row, wood being something of a premium.

Pure luck lead to about my.. 4th? wanderer being a Transhumanist on day 30(Up to this point I'd banished every one as they weren't transhumanists).
Two Revolvers were obtained from banished wanderers ( Quite the stroke of luck frankly as they're reasonable all-purpose weapons) made the transition from naked insanity to standard rimworld fairly smooth.

Checking most incapacitated refugees since it generally required less than a day round trip due to flat desert and a nearby road.
---
Mid-game:
Rushed up to Gunsmithing pausing only to get Batteries along the way, made two bolt-action rifles and some flak vests/pants. Obtained 2 more transhumanists ( One via incapacitated refugee(day51), one via a raid(105-111) during my 2nd year and with that finally had the manpower to really build up a proper base and eventually a wall.

Went straight to Autocannons (After double checking the new armor system and their stats) and well.. They're certainly expensive but you get what you pay for. I was actually ridiculously impressed with the Autocannon as in practice they have few -if any- serious flaws.

https://imgur.com/a/NvBxehI

Image is a little old but shows the basic situation.
My setup is deliberately open but in spite of that the autocannon fairly trivially crushes most opposition. It would certainly be a different story on a higher difficulty but as it stands at 28,000 wealth that thing is going to require a serious fiasco to be overwhelmed. Wealth was admittedly low due to the general lack of manpower and emphasis on researching.

General plan from here on out is to progress towards Bionics and see if the wealth buildup from doing so becomes overwhelming due to artificially low population count.. I don't think it will however because of -surprisingly- autocannons.
---
Autocannon rambling:

I expected the 2-steel-per-shot maintenance on the Autocannon to be prohibitive but after another 40 days worth of raids I can't say that it is. To be perfectly frank given the fragility of mini turrets, their short range, tendency to explode, and general lack of lethality I'm not sure I'd ever go back to using mini turrets personally unless it's in some ridiculously contrived murder-zone.

Autocannons aren't even particularly expensive to replace if they're somehow destroyed, given that they drop half the materials used to construct them irrespective of their barrel status. If their barrels require replacing at the time of destruction then you're really only paying 120 steel and 3 components.
Sure there's a bit of manpower involved in smelting the slag and creating the components but ultimately it's just not a huge deal.

They're tough as nails when made out of just steel so using them to absorb incoming fire is not only practical it's downright silly not to. Given that plasteel versions have an extra 755 health I imagine I'll be using those whenever possible in the future.

---
Armor system:
First impressions weren't great but that was mostly down to how currently there's almost no in-game description of how the new mechanics actually work. 
Assuming that the system works as follows:
Quote
1. We subtract AP from AR.
2. We generate a random number from 0-100.
   2a. If it’s over the AR, the damage applies directly.
   2b. If it’s under AR but over AR/2, damage is diminished. This means:
      2b1. Damage amount reduced by 50% (rounded random; if this round to zero we treat it as a deflect).
      2b2. If damage is sharp, it converts to blunt.
   2c. If it’s under AR/2, damage is deflected entirely.

I'm fine with this system, it's fairly robust and moderately intuitive (Someone in high quality clothes might mitigate a shotgun blast or machine pistol but not a bolt-action rifle) but I can see how people would make ridiculously inaccurate assumptions based on the current description of mechanics in-game.

The only description currently is under a weapon's Armor Penetration stat and it doesn't accurately communicate the entire mechanic, only (1.).

There's an entire discussion to be had about how transparent game mechanics should be for various audiences but I think everyone can agree that misinformation is probably worse than no information and the current description of armor/armor penetration is bordering on misinformation.

---

On the subject of lackluster tooltips (Though it's nothing to do with changes in 1.0)- Ranged Cooldown, Warmup, and Trigger Happy/Careful Shooter, aren't very clear.

Trigger Happy/Careful Shooter refer to Aiming Time which is Warmup on a gun's statistics(Insofar as I can tell)
Warmup doesn't have a description at all.
Aiming Time isn't listed on weapons - only Pawns and it's not very clear which stat it's interacting with when comparing guns.

For example a Trigger Happy pawn with a Revolver only shaves 0.15s off the normally 1.68s firing time. (~8.9%)
That same pawn with a Minigun however shaves a whopping 1.55s off the 4.8s firing time. (~32%)

But how would a person know that from looking at any of the descriptions of the mechanics?
I know that the process is Warmup+Cooldown and Trigger Happy reduces Warmup but the only reason I know that is testing.
I hope I'm not coming across as a condescending asshole here :/


Anyway that's it for now, will hopefully have some information about late game robo-colonist-colonies next.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: JavaWho on June 26, 2018, 10:31:21 PM
This visual glitch happened in 1.0 today and it appears to be 34x34 tiles wide on most of the squares  ... link posted, not sure how to post a pic https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251198249493/31366AE9364C17B88C56D86611C850CABD674BC7/
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Serina on June 26, 2018, 10:41:34 PM
TL;DR: The difficulty of the second poison ship event felt right to me, maybe even a little easier than my first poison ship.
First poison ship - 2 centipedes, 1 scyther (around 42k colony wealth) against 5 colonists with steel clubs, a bolt action rifle and one revolver.
Outcome: 3 dead pets - 2 wargs and a panther. No colonist death.


Second poison ship - 4 lancers and 1 inferno canon centipede (62.4k colony wealth) against my team below.
Outcome: 1 dead colonist.



(Naked Brutality - Phoebe - Hard)
This is my second poison ship event, didn't really think about taking notes of the first one, but here's the second.

My team and their equipment:

Kent: Steel club, Steel simple helm, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. His main job is to carry downed colonists to safety and tend to them since he's my highest doctor (medical 11).

Serina: Assault rifle, Steel advanced helm, synthread pants and shirt, power armor. My best shooter w/ 16 in shooting. I had her targeting the centipede.

Cedric: Steel longsword, Steel advanced helm, t-shirt, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Shield belt, Flak pants. With 13  in melee and super-immune + tough traits, he's my favorite melee/tank colonist right now. I've grown quite attached to him.

Michelle: Bolt-action rifle, Steel simple helm, Heavy fur tribalwear, Bluefur parka. 12 in shooting, Cedric's wife. Pretty much the only things that stand out about her.

Yoshi: Steel club, Steel advanced helm, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. He only has 7 in melee, I brought him as back up EMP grenade thrower in case something happened to Loreen.

Blanca: Heavy smg, Steel simple helm, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. Trigger-happy with only 6 in shooting. Saved refugee. I wouldn't have accepted her into the colony if she wasn't Michelle's mother. Another shooter doesn't hurt I suppose but she's not very good at much else.

Mitsuya: Chain shotgun, Steel simple helm, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. Only 6 in shooting but skilled in social and intellectual. She joined the colony after I rescued her from an ancient danger. Abrasive Cannibal.

Loreen: EMP grenades, Steel simple helm, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. Was in the same ancient danger as Mitsuya, also joined the colony after I healed her up. Unfortunately, she's a body purist gourmand. She helped Kent cook meals though, which was good.

Maid: Bluefur tribalwear, Muffalo wool parka. Her job is to carry downed colonists/pets back to safety before they bleed out. She's not good at combat.

Pets: Shadow the timber wolf and Chaos the panther. They are good boys and have served the colony well thus far.

---

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423782309
Start of the fight - built some granite walls for cover. I wish I had constructed cover for Loreen and Mitsuya.
I guess I figured I didn't mind if I lost them during the battle. I shot the ancient ship with Serina and out pops 4 lancers and 1 centipede with an inferno canon. I targeted the centipede with Cedric and Serina. Mitsuya bravely tanked the centipede's inferno canon with her face while Loreen used her EMP grenades on the group. Michelle and Blanca target the lone lancer to the right.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423787635
Loreen's death, Shadow carried off - Loreen successfully stunned the mob of lancers with the centipede but she got gunned down by the lone lancer. First shot was to her torso, the second destroyed her heart. Rip Loreen. You did well. Yoshi runs over and picks up Loreen's dropped EMP grenades and stuns the lone lancer to the right.
Chaos and Shadow work together to take out a lancer (I told you they are good boys) while Serina and Cedric continue working on the centipede.
Unfortunately the stun wears off and a lancer downs Shadow. Chaos finishes off the lancer that downed his wolf friend and starts attacking the next lancer. By this time, their stun immunity wore off so Yoshi was able to stun the group once again, allowing Maid time to run over and rescue Shadow away to safety.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423821614
Centipede down - Mitsuya, Cedric and Serina spam everything they have on the centipede and it eventually succumbs to a crack.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423825408
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423827491
Last lancer and Last hit - Chaos bravely charged at the remaining lancer. Cedric came over for the kill steal. :D

I tried to attach the photos, but I exceeded the maximum total size.

Thoughts: I'm very proud of Shadow and Chaos. I think I will try to buy/tame other attack animals from now on and allow these two good boys to retire. Time to patch up my colonists and haul these mech bodies back to base. ^.^
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Rockchecker on June 26, 2018, 10:43:15 PM
I had an escape pod drop containing a person who was faction-aligned. I rescued her and patched her up, and she started leaving as soon as she was able to walk. However, she was still badly hurt, so her movement speed was very low. She ended up going berserk near the edge of the map due to minor starvation kicking in on top of all her pain. She tried to beat a tortoise to death with her bare fists, died, and I lost faction rep.

Suggestion: It would be great if people rescued from escape pods would wait until they are fully healed before trying to leave the map.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 10:46:36 PM
This visual glitch happened in 1.0 today and it appears to be 34x34 tiles wide on most of the squares  ... link posted, not sure how to post a pic https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251198249493/31366AE9364C17B88C56D86611C850CABD674BC7/

I posted a similar glitch last night;  the glitch disappeared this afternoon, testing it with a save game from the exact point where I noticed it.  I'm guessing the latest update today somehow addressed it, but that's only a guess.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Revshawn on June 26, 2018, 10:46:50 PM
I'm really sorry Ty! You simply patch the game so quickly that I don't have time to test every feature in the game! I've got this thing where I'll always do the butt naked start, so it takes me a lot of time to get my colonies off the ground! I really want to give this 3 tiered armor system a try though. I'll post my thoughts in the next day or so if I get a chance to give it a rollthrough tomorrow. Depends on how tired I am after work. ^_^
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Revshawn on June 26, 2018, 10:49:58 PM
I had an escape pod drop containing a person who was faction-aligned. I rescued her and patched her up, and she started leaving as soon as she was able to walk. However, she was still badly hurt, so her movement speed was very low. She ended up going berserk near the edge of the map due to minor starvation kicking in on top of all her pain. She tried to beat a tortoise to death with her bare fists, died, and I lost faction rep.

Suggestion: It would be great if people rescued from escape pods would wait until they are fully healed before trying to leave the map.

Another victim from the mighty tortoise. Clearly one of this game's finest contributions. I love watching colonists try to punch through the armored shell and get a finger bit off. XD! It's hilarious. Please never change this.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Injured Muffalo on June 26, 2018, 11:11:07 PM
Random interface comment: The ellipses after items which can be built from more than one material seem pointless to me. Everyone who plays sees the menu when building anyway, and the ellipsis to imply it could be made from other materials just seems to clutter and get in the way.

Yes it is trivial, but it bugged me.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 26, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Haven't been able to test the autocannons much, randy's sent literally nothing for half a year, and then pretty much everything but a standard raid.  I think I'll have to do cassandra for future playtesting, but I suppose someone has to test randy once or twice xD

One interesting tidbit, a psychic ship enraged nearby animals, and the animals then attacked the mechanoids.  Not sure that's happened in previous versions. 

Additionally, not sure if it's something that you want fixed for 1.0 but it's worth mentioning that the "leesh" method for doing early psychic ships still works:  Snipe the ship, run away, and hit the mechanoids as they walk back for a free shot.  Tedious, but effective for the first ship.

Edit:  Pyromanics.  I feel these still aren't in a good state for release.  So far I've had one singular pyro go nuts 5 times this year, and just now he's gone pyro twice in the same day.  No mood problems, he's happy even -___-  The story behind this was pretty funny, though.  He went pyro, proposed to another colonist, and then went pyro again a few hours later.  Guess he's pretty hot.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: JavaWho on June 26, 2018, 11:42:06 PM


I posted a similar glitch last night;  the glitch disappeared this afternoon, testing it with a save game from the exact point where I noticed it.  I'm guessing the latest update today somehow addressed it, but that's only a guess.


I logged out of steam, restarted the game and it seemed to fix it currently.  Good to know I am not going mad ... thank you
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: IndustryStandard on June 26, 2018, 11:47:12 PM
Okay three issues with newest

 1. I had someone become catatonic, a week later, she got up from bed, walked a few feet, and then was back in bed for several days catatonic again. She had the catharsis mood boost and everything. Very annoying.

 2.  When a colonist goes on a walk, can they be made to not path into rivers? Kind of annoying to get the mood debuff because the moron decides to walk in a river.

 3. We got a mission to rescue one of my colonists mother, I lost faction relations when she died, seems really unfair that they would give a crap or blame us for that.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Greep on June 27, 2018, 12:41:14 AM
Had a manhunter deer pack which was fully repelled on randy extreme by 5 autocannons and a miniturret, which exploded.  Usually can't quite beat manhunter packs at that stage with turrets so on extreme so that's different.  I think this actually has less to do with the cannon firepower, so much as the lowered power requirements.  Pretty easy to spam turrets when a single geothermal vent supplies all of them.

It does feel like however you balance it, autocannons are either a replacement for miniturrets, or end up being just not worth it.  Currently they're better than miniturrets, so I think it's now always build all autoturrets after you can afford them.  I can confirm as a user posted above, that because they're quite tanky, you can even put one or two ahead to just take hits and maybe later on make it plasteel.

They are initially weaker than miniturrets, however, which probably explains why one of the users above said they were bad even after the update.  But their tankiness imo makes them superior in the long run.

One interesting note:  Because they're quite tanky and actually useful now, it makes sense to just spam them everywhere rather than worry about explosions, so it will probably just end up being one giant ball of death.  With miniturrets, you can only fit so much in an area due to explosive death, but with the cannons, even though they're 3x3, you can just fill most of the area with them.

Edit: 4th pyro attack in two weeks.  Just banishing him.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Teleblaster18 on June 27, 2018, 01:11:51 AM


I posted a similar glitch last night;  the glitch disappeared this afternoon, testing it with a save game from the exact point where I noticed it.  I'm guessing the latest update today somehow addressed it, but that's only a guess.


I logged out of steam, restarted the game and it seemed to fix it currently.  Good to know I am not going mad ... thank you

Glad it worked...you're quite welcome.  And in turn, thank you Tynan.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: NiftyAxolotl on June 27, 2018, 01:14:37 AM
(Previously: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg413243#msg413243)
I'm nearly at the end of the second summer on this run. I just realized that the Volcanic Winter that had started in early Decembary is still going. Over 40 days! My crops are coming in, but I think too slowly for me to prepare for the coming winter. All of my muffalos lost their obedience training, and two scyther raids have shredded my boar corp. I may be able to get my muffalos back into fighting discipline, but this takes a lot of colonist time during harvest season, and doesn't even guarantee colonist safety since I have to let the training lapse for so long. I almost never do caravans, but I think I'll use my otherwise idle muffalos to sell some trash for grains. This feels difficult, but fair. There are a lot of ways this colony could go wrong, but I have options.

Here's my summary for animal swarm strategies on 1.0:
- Animals on permanent summer maps are cheap. Animals on colder maps are expensive. Herbivores on very cold maps are probably not viable at all.
- If you can train a lot of animals for release, combat becomes trivial. If you can't, then the animals are still helpful, but combat remains dangerous.
- Alpacas are an outlier in terms of power. Tame, herbivorous, releasable, and woolly.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ardshael on June 27, 2018, 02:55:42 AM
I've made it to the hidden ship to discover there are only 18 cryopods. Nooooo!!! I refuse to leave a pawn behind (other than the several incapacitated ones). I hadn't researched any ship items yet so I set up a base.

Now, I'm not sure if this is a bug or designed but my wealth is at zero. Considering the strength of my crew, any raids, poison ships, etc that have been sent are a piece of cake to take out. Additionally, visitors have taken pity on me because "I'm having such a hard time" so they give me gifts. Perhaps setting up a base here should count towards wealth so the events scale and I won't receive gifts.

(https://www.screencast.com/t/7FisLrv9OVyh)

https://www.screencast.com/t/7FisLrv9OVyh

Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 27, 2018, 04:03:58 AM
New build going up! I did a pretty heavy rework to how recreation is handled, I hope it'll be a lot more understandable as well as less failure-prone from here on. Specifically, recreation requirements scale with expectations, the player gets a useful alert if he needs more recreation, and pawns won't spend a ton of time on recreation types they're already bored of.

Raw change log.

Added cocoa tree, for growing your own chocolate. This is a useful recreation source at high expectations levels. It takes a lot of grower skill and sowing time, as well as research.
Explain armor system better in armor rating stat.
Adjusted population intent balance slightly to not be so aggressive about adding people at very low populations.
Increase shotgun stagger, slightly buff autopistol and slightly debuff revolver.
When a recreation tolerance hits 50%, we now disable taking job of that recreation type until it falls to 30%. "Bored". So instead of endlessly doing the same recreation activity which they aren't getting anything from, pawns will have an unfulfilled recreation need instead until more variety of recreation is available.
On recreation tooltip, we now mention the recreation types available current expectations and tolerance fall rate.
Need recreation variety alert now lists kinds from items (chemical, gluttonous).
Added more detail to “need recreation variety” alert. It mentions current expectations level. It lists the recreation kinds extant on the current map, and which building they come from. It says you can check a building’s recreation kinds in its stats.
Expectations and joy tolerance rework. Recreation tolerance drop per day now varies based on expectations. "Need recreation sources" alert now activates whenever there are not enough recreation sources for the specific expectations level on any PlayerHome map. Expectations levels are now defined by defs and queried from a central utility class.
Adjusted quest reward item quality generation.
We explain how to reorder colonist bar in a tooltip now.
Increase centipedes points cost (since their weapons are a bit better now). Sped up centipedes a bit.
Bomb explosion now has stopping power.
Fix 3460: Doe graphics look unusually big
Fix 3462: Watermill generator 'turbulence from another watermill' updating issues
Added flak jacket. Still using jacket art.
Refugees now get "Rescued" thought on rescued.
Reduced frequency of family members of colonists by 50%.
Trade quests now only accept normal or better quality items.
Fix: TryAppendRelationsWithColonistsInfo() doesn't append newlines correctly (no newlines before relationship info).
Bomb and Flame now have defaultArmorPenetration 0.05. Added DamageDef.defaultStoppingPower.
Animals tab now accepts nameless animals as a workaround for nameless animals bug.
Fix 3452: Memory leak detected: map (Map-0) is still live when it shouldn't be; this map will not be mentioned again
Caravan interface: "pause" -> "rest".
Overall armor calculations now correctly handle >100% armor ratings.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 27, 2018, 04:40:34 AM
FYI Build is taken back for now, there's a few errors I need to fix. Will be back up soon.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: FrozenSnowFox on June 27, 2018, 04:56:13 AM
Well I managed to check the update out before you reverted it.  While I absolutely love the fact that we can now get our own chocolate its a bit weird to harvest trees and get ready to eat chocolate.  I think you should make it work like drugs so it needs to be refined into a usable product.

The flak jacket is a nice addition but with the introduction of all these flak protection items devilstrand has become largely useless.  The only item worth making now is a button down shirt, everything else has better protection items.  With devilstrands minimum plant skill of 10 and the 22.5 growing days its a very difficult crop to get grown.  I think most people will just go for flak items immediately and ignore devilstrand entirely.

One thing I noticed is the flak jacket is under tailoring but the flak pants are under machining.  So I imagine the flak jacket is most likely wrongly categorised.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 27, 2018, 05:08:35 AM
Error fixed, new build is up again.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 27, 2018, 05:21:00 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone, especially hero first-time posters giving in-depth play reports. This kind of thing is extremely useful. I can't reply to each one individually but I am definitely reading each one carefully.

---

Also reminder, there is still a moratorium this thread against:

-Theorycrafting - Please write things related to specific up-to-date play experiences, pure theory is no good
-Open-ended ideas - Put em' in Suggestions please, especially if they don't relate specifically to 1.0
-Bugs - Please post a thread in Bugs forum

Posts of any of those three may get removed or moved to another forum. Thanks.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: XeoNovaDan on June 27, 2018, 05:59:42 AM
I feel that the gold cost of royal beds should be increased; I'm only mid-game and I already have more than enough gold to give everybody royal beds, and then some (19 beds for 7 colonists). Granted, I did crack an ancient danger which contributed largely towards that, but this is still somewhat reasonably achievable.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: biship on June 27, 2018, 06:29:49 AM
64 bit - nice. When work isn't looking I'll give it a go!
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: ashaffee on June 27, 2018, 06:41:12 AM
I feel that the gold cost of royal beds should be increased; I'm only mid-game and I already have more than enough gold to give everybody royal beds, and then some (19 beds for 7 colonists). Granted, I did crack an ancient danger which contributed largely towards that, but this is still somewhat reasonably achievable.

I actually couldn't afford them in almost every game because I spent all my gold on boinics. I even had a quest that rewarded 320 gold.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Pope on June 27, 2018, 08:02:21 AM
To be brief:
Thanks a lot for the 64 Bit version. This helps a lot.
A lot of improvements, which i am positive about. Some negative things as well.
BUT: I can't wait for stable release and my mods to be updated to have my personalised version of RimWorld again.

My Feedback based on topics:
Caravans:
- UI changes are good.
- Choosing a destination during planing helps a lot.
- Like the Caravan Forage abiliy.
- Information about terrain is good.
- Information during planing is very good.
- Traveling seems to be faster now.
- I have now more reasons to create trade caravans on my own in order to make some silver.
- Haven't tried pods yet.

Colony:
- Several Icons and objects look diffrent now. Visibly they fit all together ( like refinery and com station as example ).
- New Stack icons ( beside steel temporary change ) are nice too look at. The "shadow" 3d style on plasteel or silve as example.
- While on this topic: The new Silver icon is confusing. Got to get used to it..
- Production Objects ( tables ) are looking diffrent, but i still mixed up artistic table with stone block table.
- Reason for item deterioration helps to identify missed roofs.

Food:
- Food rot timer showing days instead of quadrums helps my plan and decisions on harvesting.

Crafting:
- Workbills changes are going good forward, but i will still prefer "Better Work Management Mod".
- Tailoring objects can be produced quicker as in B18.

Pawns:
- Intelligent hauling and clean up of stacks. solves the need for 2 mods.
- Recreation: Noticed too late, that i need at least 4 activies to have a happpy pawn. Solution: 3 items can be build quite fast and dont need high quality. Pin(dex), table/chair(social), chesstable/chair (Celebral), Automatic: wandering/pray(meditative).
- Clothing change time makes sense.
- The new "Timeframe" to treat diseases is good. Finaly a doctor can have his morning coffe.

Animals:
- Animal care is now a full time job, once over 30 Animals, for 1 Pawn. ( 5 haulers / 22 Milk animal jobs, 18 wool animal jobs )
Half of the doing is somehow to re-train all animals. Dont know if this is a feature, that animals loose memory or if it's a bug.
- I dislike that my Animal care taker uses chocolate for training.

Combat:
I haven't expericed anything extraordinary.
But i will switch to Combat Extended Mod as soone a Version is released. Sorry Tynan !

Economy:
The Economy statements are based on how hard it is to get the resources to produce 1 item and how much it is worth while selling.
- Creating normal and below qualtiy items for sale ( weapons, art and furniture ) is not worth it.
- Weapons are only worth selling if they are master quality.
- Art, especialy with marble, makes some good cash with exceptional or higher quality.
- The need for advanced components creates a new step / milestone for a technology access.


/Pope

Edit: No end-game 1.0 experience yet.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tynan on June 27, 2018, 08:09:59 AM
Thanks for the feedback Pope.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: nowise on June 27, 2018, 08:24:21 AM
I wish the predators would look a little farther for a meal. My rich explorer's cat got eaten by a wolf when there was a herd of pigs right around the corner. Later in the game my rich explorer got mauled by a different timber wolf when out on a recreational walk. I like how predators can be dangerous but I wish they wouldn't hang around our colony and eat our pets.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: BlackSmokeDMax on June 27, 2018, 08:27:51 AM
I wish the predators would look a little farther for a meal. My rich explorer's cat got eaten by a wolf when there was a herd of pigs right around the corner. Later in the game my rich explorer got mauled by a different timber wolf when out on a recreational walk. I like how predators can be dangerous but I wish they wouldn't hang around our colony and eat our pets.

I like that they take the opportunity of the closest animal, pet, or human. However, I do agree they should maybe at least try to stay a little further from the activity of the base itself when possible. Seems more wild-animal-like to avoid contact until required.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 27, 2018, 08:43:52 AM
I too must wonder the need for flak jackets considering that devilstrand since forever has been the go to over-armor set that players invest in. What is then the point of devilstrand clothes?

While I appreciate the pod saying what's inside it, it needs a lot of work. I put a ton of pemmican and it keeps repeating pemmican like 5 times before getting to the meds. I was expecting something like the caravan window, but overall it's an improvement.

As for autocannons, the biggest factor of me not building them is my inability to see the "too close" radius. It gives me an overall radius sure, but not the smaller one that raiders can pass by. As for their effectiveness, they're good! I tested this by shoving 8 centipides in a big ol box and have four turrets shooting them at optimal range. The cannons eventually blew up, but they took down 6 of them quite handily. Their health is high enough to tank.

However this was a different case with enemy pawns that took cover. I put a single mercenary-heavy with a minigun behind some rocks and the man shot the cannon 8 times before nailing him twice. They hit HARD, taking off two limbs, but they're too inaccurate to be reliable. In short, I think their accuracy needs buffing, not their damage.

Also, double shots from both the charge rifle and assault rifle is very sad. Players I think prefer that burst shot, and seeing that go away hurts. I know balance and all that, but I wonder if both the AR and charge rifle can keep the three shot burst.

I am unsure about the chocolate. It's a late game snack, but at this point I might as well brew pekoe. Chocolate grows on trees whereas both hops and psychoid plants can be made inside an indoor greenhouse. I really have little reason to make chocolate considering tea gives a good enough buff and can be done easily and beer has the social interaction stuff. If it were cocoa on the other hand, I can see players doing them because players do love making rec rooms and serving warm cocoa.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Madman666 on June 27, 2018, 08:50:00 AM
Yeah, with flak pants\jackets, there isn't much point in growing devilstrand. Well unless you wanna make money via clothing trade, i guess..

It'd be nice if devilstrand and especially hyperweave clothing could substitute for a decent light armor, without having to be at least masterwork to have some effect on survivability.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: evilgiraffe666 on June 27, 2018, 09:19:36 AM
Not sure if this is a bug or not, call it a suggestion.
Deer (doe/buck) don't have a stat for revenge chance on harmed/on tame fail. Is this because those stats are 0%? If so I think it would be clearer to show the 0% than have no stat.

I know in previous versions I've lost colonies to deer revenge, so I'm wary.
Although I did see this:
Quote
Adjusted chances of various animals going manhunter on failed taming attempts and on being harmed.
so they might genuinely be nicer.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Tekuki on June 27, 2018, 09:28:35 AM
Been enjoying 1.0 alot of loving all these changes, even if the change get change in the next build but I just notice some thing, we don't have a axe weapon and I think it would be pretty cool to have a axe, maybe it do have brunt and half sharp depending on which axe it is. Just a random idea honesty cause I feel like I'm missing at axe to complete the weapon triangle (now i think I play too much fire emblem)
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: EdgarDruin on June 27, 2018, 10:14:28 AM
So, played for ages, never really posted, but I've grabbed the unstable 1.0 and played on cassandra rough using the single pawn start on a year-round growing site, further south.

Just to get this out of the way, I'm having a great time.  I love the game ... every time I come back to waste a few hours over the years I end up going down the rimworld rabbit hole and play for a few weeks again.

On to the other stuff ...

I've found it nearly impossible to keep standings up and have pretty much let all factions slide.

I couldn't start close to other factions due to the standing loss of doing that, I don't see many trade caravans making it hard to get standing, and the ones that did come have a *very* limited selection on what they offer and what they'll buy.

Every time I tried a caravan early, my pawns died of malaria.  Eventually I moved the slider to allow for more than one base and sent them with medicine along the way and save scummed a caravan to success.

The rain soaking wet debuff just sort of gets annoying, even at reduced level of 6 vs 10.  And it lasts 6 hours?  I went out in the pouring rain this morning to change a car seat, it's been an hour, I'm over it.  Maybe dusters could prevent that for rain, or duster + hat?  I went through a rainy period, it got pretty old, pretty fast.

The soaking wet debuff for pawns is also annoying when you plant next to a river.  If they hate water so much, maybe don't stand in it to harvest.  There is dry ground right over there, stand there to harvest.  I gave up and  built bridges around my growing area.

They also seem to give up on the bridge if the path takes them too far from it.  Again, if they hate water so much, the path over the bridge I built to get to the other side of the map should be super important to use for path finding.  I gave up and built more bridges on the map.

The wildlife tab is great, but led to the 'why are you soaking wet, I guess I'll build more bridges' when they'd go off to hunt things I selected from that tab and insisted on going through water to do it.

Rain and the soaking wet debuff has also expanded my use of roofs, which in turn forced me to expand my use of lights.  Can't have a roof over every outside path between buildings and no lights, then they're in the dark. :)

Cleaning is annoying.  I have to switch to manual priorities and set everyone to 1 on cleaning, let them deep clean the whole base, then switch back to the checked box priorities.  I typically do this after everyone has recovered from a raid or large fight where they track blood and dirt everywhere, then don't want to clean up.

I've tried to use manual priorities for everything, but it never seems to work out very well.  Odd things don't get done, so I switch back to check boxes, but then no one ever gets around to cleaning.  It seems odd that I have to have a pawn that only has that checked, a maid, that's all you get to do.  Don't get distracted, you clean.

If you walk into an area that's filthy, and you have clean ticked, tidy up a bit before moving on to the next thing maybe?

During my latest non-1.0 playthrough right before 1.0 came out, I'd learned how aggressive the insect infestations had become.  I used to build exclusively in mountains after my initial small wood house, but it seems an intentional decision to make that non playable or at least very risky.  You can cheese it with deep empty rooms, but even then, they'd instantly appear where you least want them to and kill someone before you could do something about it.

So, I like the indication of where they'll appear even if I dislike the change that makes mountain bases unplayable for me.  I get it, too easy to defend, and having a base in the open has made combat more interesting.

Anyhow, I was surprised to see them appear on my current playthrough, since I'm building out in the open this time, but then noticed that 2 or 3 tiles from a small hill I mined out have the 'under mountain' roof type.  That was all it took.  Was disappointed.  At least I was given a few seconds to evacuate before my first infestation ...

I have tons of world events I just ignore, rescues, trade, peace talks ... malaria and other diseases wiped out everyone, every time I tried to do anything on the world map early, other than one caravan I save scummed back far enough to avoid malaria, so yah, not sure how to travel more than a day away and not die unless I stop to build a base to deal with the constant threat of disease.  Maybe I was just unlucky.

I feel like the world map and events are an awesome addition but are so incredibly risky at this level that they aren't worth going for them ... I always look at them and think, well, maybe when I have a few more pawns, or more pawns that don't have a movement debuff on them.

One last thing, so many conditions, so many pawns that move slower and slower.  I have 11 at the moment, only 3 move at full speed.  Sending the only 3 healthy pawns I have out on a caravan that will likely die of disease so they move faster and have a higher chance of success ... one last reason not to use the world map.

Honestly, I risked those three last night to go get some mechanite serum, see if I can't fix a few of those movement debuffs, it was 5 days through mountains to get there ... chickens ambushed them, was a hard fight, but they prevailed, now to build a fire and roast some chickens for food before they head home (and likely die of malaria along the way!)

Thanks for the game, too much fun.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 27, 2018, 10:34:24 AM
Diseases are a pain, especially infections, but that's why you send a pawn with good meds and good doctoring skill. I always send one medic out for caravan. Once my caravan runner got the plague halfway through his route, but seeing as he had 8 doctor and 30 medicine, he was able to get home safely and heal.

Caravans are very much a mid-game thing. Early game if you know what you're doing. Buying some medicine from traders and keeping them for emergencies I find is a way to ensure safe caravan runs.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: EdgarDruin on June 27, 2018, 10:41:15 AM
Quote
Diseases are a pain, especially infections, but that's why you send a pawn with good meds and good doctoring skill. I always send one medic out for caravan. Once my caravan runner got the plague halfway through his route, but seeing as he had 8 doctor and 30 medicine, he was able to get home safely and heal.

Maybe I don't understand this mechanic and caravans well enough, but will medicine get used as they travel if they have it and have someone good at medicine or do I need to stop somehow and treat them, then continue?
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Ser Kitteh on June 27, 2018, 10:55:04 AM


Maybe I don't understand this mechanic and caravans well enough, but will medicine get used as they travel if they have it and have someone good at medicine or do I need to stop somehow and treat them, then continue?

Yes they will! I'm not too sure who tends who, but medicine does get used. I assume the one with the highest Doctor skill does so.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Trallhatt on June 27, 2018, 11:14:22 AM
Cleaning is annoying.  I have to switch to manual priorities

Spot on for me in real life :D everything is automatic except for boring shit like cleaning, i have to switch to "manual mode" and give an actual damn... It's mostly boring in the early game, now that i have 10+ colonists i think it works pretty well with a few that has cleaning on 1.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Mistrornge on June 27, 2018, 11:22:36 AM
A couple of things noted:
I had an animal trainer with a Labrador on follow.  Somehow the dog went through the intended door first and was running around in circles just outside the door while the pawn stalled and just stood.  Like he was waiting for the door to be clear.  I have only seen it twice (may happen more but I am unsure).
On the big map when moving caravans the "developer console" could not be cleared.  Had to increase the UI to 1.25 to be able to click buttons.  I attempted to clear, close and save (I think that is the third choice) but none removed it. 
Infection does seem pretty nasty all of a sudden.  As others mentioned I wait until late to travel, take a medic and good medicine.   Had some very close to death (and die as well).
My faction standings are going badly also.  If there is way to being them up other than selling items to towns one at a time it should have a tool tip.
I will keep plugging away. 
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Zombull on June 27, 2018, 11:43:15 AM
I started a colony next to a huge river, planning to use watermills for power. However, the roughly 45 degree angle of the river made it very difficult to find places I could build them. Please consider allowing more of the building to be placed over water so they're a bit less frustrating to use on rivers that don't play by strict cardinal direction rules.
Title: Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
Post by: Dargaron on June 27, 2018, 11:50:31 AM
Time for some synthetic impressions with the 1.0 unstable:

Cassandra Rough (Sorry, I also prefer the old designations.), spawning on an Extreme Desert w/ a modified Rich Explorer (Charge Rifle, 40 Survival Meals, 450 Steel, 300 Wood, 30 Glitterworld Medicine, 30 Components and 30 Gold), and Refugee, Chased Refugee and Drop-Pod Refugee disabled.

Dargs the Prodigal Student landed on Wilfred's World in the year 5500 as part of a reality TV deal back home: get shot at a Rimworld with a generous supply package and a recorder implant, then get back home or die trying.

In the spring of 5501, a wild man wandered into the desert near Dargs' stronghold. Dargs was shocked when the man, who was clearly incapable of violence, decided to hunt The Most Dangerous Game!

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/946202030215924158/24C007BB8FFA5F8E5845A23F9184742E5EDA413C/)

Midway through year 5501, Dargs' Charge Rifle stopped firing in three-round bursts, and he was forced to rely on the two-shot setting. Dargs was sad: even though the two-shot burst did more damage per shot, the three-round burst had become like an old friend to him. (OOC: I much preferred the three-round