Unstable build feedback thread

[Razzoriel]

Can I ask you, Tynan, to make some system to reduce the cover of armor in certain species for the respective body parts? For example, tortoises have their armor like their shell covers their entire body. Makes no sense; if I shoot the paws, the paws are not covered by the shell, so it should have no armor. Revolvers having their shots deflected from a tortoise's shell, fine, I can understand a little that, but even when I shoot their paws or head?

[Madman666]

You've played way too much Darkest Dungeon, man I like it as well, but i really don't wanna see Rimworld turning into grim Dark Souls level suffering simulator.

Also we probably should end this, before Tynan gets rightfully pissed. If you wanna continue - lets make a separate thread, maybe with a poll and also ask others how they feel about it.

[Sirinox]

Nah, not nearly enough. It sure added to the acceptance of sudden pawns deaths as a part of the story for me though.

Ow. I hope it wasn't too much off topic, I sure meant it as an alternative experience about these caravan tweaks. I don't have much to add to what I already said, but I could participate in such thread if there will be one.

[Ser Kitteh]

Unrelated, but smelter doesn't get bonuses from workbenches. Is this intended? I always knew this was the case but don't know if it's intended.

I like the new flak armor visual. When Tynan mentions NECK PROTECTION he means it.

Minor observations living in a swamp for reals this time:

The issue with swamps is no doubt the intense foliage and lack of good ground. This is reasonable and part of the challenge. In most maps I usually use 30% of the map. Here, it's more like 15%. I like that, which brings me to the main method of expansion: moisture pumps.

Moisture pumps take a year plus to expand it's radius and turn marsh/mud/water into normal soil. I don't personally care whether this is realistic or not. What I do care is it takes forever, and it's very much a non-fun method of expansion.

Another thing in regards to pumps is that they require power. Fair enough, but the problem is that you can't ever maximise them because you need to run a wire and that also takes a while depending if you resarch waterproof conduits or not.

You also need to use them on good soil instead of plopping it down in a shallow lake. Doable with bridges but I'm no fan of it. I shouldn't need a tiny one tile bridge to plant it in the first place. Might as well chuck it on the mud in the first place.

So those are the main complaints: the inability to place them directly on marshy soil and needing to play a game of guess the radius plus the extremely long waiting time to clear the area. I wouldn't mind a bigger moisture pump if it means I can pump out the marsh a lot quicker at the cost of more materials and power.

[NoQ]

I can't find my Vent thing anymore, it's not in the Temperature tab. Does it need to be researched? Tribal start.

[Oblitus]

With how wearing armor is now a trade-off, I don't see a reason to wear it anymore. If you need armor, you are already doing something wrong, since it only gives some extra chances in RNGfest, and slowing down pawns is one of the wrongest things you can ever do. 8% slowdown is a disastrous disadvantage. I've seen too many cases when one-two tiles of the extra range were changing the whole outcome. In fact, now bionic legs are effectively a prerequisite for wearing armor.

Threat response for hunting predators still is way too poor. The letter only arrives when the predator is within range of 30 or so, which is too close to escape when happens near map edges even in perfect positioning. Pawns and turrets don't try to attack predators unless they are within range of 10 or so.

Predators are tending to turn manhunter when harmed while hunting, which means that they forget about hunger and just go around attacking humanlikes.

No one cares when predator attacks animals.

So those are the main complaints: the inability to place them directly on marshy soil and needing to play a game of guess the radius plus the extremely long waiting time to clear the area. I wouldn't mind a bigger moisture pump if it means I can pump out the marsh a lot quicker at the cost of more materials and power.

And if they are destroyed - well, shit.

[IndustryStandard]

Okay I have experience on two things. The weaker doors and the early game power setup.

On Cass Hard Jungle, without a river, it feels absolutely terrible getting power early on because I can't rely on that perfectly reliable river power anymore. My options are to rush batteries, but I definitely have more important things that need to be setup early before that, wind power or fueled generators. The problem with wind power is that despite powering 2 lights and a cooler, I can go long periods of time without power and if I have a fueled generator I have to constantly shove wood into it which is a crucial material early on. It's just noticeably more difficult playing now if I don't have a river, my B18 strategy was building a solar generator and battery on day 1 which IMO was overpowered, but the alternatives is to put a torch inside my house for basic light, but those raise temperatures and anger everyone.

I don't know a solution to this, because I don't think having batteries or solar panels at the start would fix it, just make it as easy as B18 is. Maybe add some basic reliability to wind power? The output varies, but I don't think a wind mill ever truly stops completely. And I don't really understand not having batteries at the start, I'm not that hugely bothered by it now that I saw you made the research path to a better research bench less dumb.

And onto the wooden doors, which flat out killed my colony before the first month. Someone went hunting, maddened a group of elephants, elephants wiped her clean and then tore ass after my other 2 folks, shredding the doors like paper and chasing them through 4 different doors in the base not stopping. I tried taking 1 on at a time in the doorway but of course this happened after they got injured the day prior and 1 died and the other downed. Everyone died. This entire series of events just kinda felt unfair to me, because I wasn't even able to just accept heavy losses, I HAD to accept everyone dies from this, I couldn't run anywhere and they all got downed so I couldn't even wait out the elephants maddening status.

I like making that door cheese tactic not work as well, I am guilty of it on a few occasions when the odds are horribly one sided, but currently the better material the door is, the slower they open which seems like an unneeded trade off and makes it hard to stop using wooden doors since those precious seconds add up. IMO all doors should open at the same speed, this makes logically and from a balance standpoint they cost more materials and take longer to build.

Of course that leads to a problem of people never building a wooden door..

Idk, I wanted to give some experience feedback, this is all from the last 2 hours of playing on the newest version.

[mlzovozlm]

with bridge being a thing, i just out right use bridge instead of pump unless what i need is room with some flooring or heavy stuff or growing ground

and does waterproof conduit actually needed? i remember i just used bridge+normal conduit instead,  cheaper in all way

edit: yes, checked, an across-water conduit can either costs 8 steels+research, or it can just be 12 wood+1 steel, wood is basically free, so the waterproof conduit only pays off if u 're hit >8 times with lightning, fire, or zzzt at the same spot
i think the waterproof conduit should costs 2 or 3 steel or even 1, as it already required research

[DubskiDude]

Been really loving the game so far, but there is a single brick wall I've run into - how crazy deadly the new melee Scythers are around the mid-game. They absolutely shred my colonists, especially now since pawns with guns can't shoot back if the enemy is in "touch" range (I don't get why that nerf was added). Plus Scythers have about 76% armor against guns, which is almost as much as Centipede armor vs guns, and they down or kill colonists in about 3 hits or less.

[Syrchalis]

with bridge being a think, i just out right use bridge instead of pump unless what i need is room with some flooring or heavy stuff or growing ground

Well, most water dries to gravel and that can't support heavy structures. So the pump is really useless. Only marsh dries to dirt.

[Greep]

Regarding power, the way you want to do it is mix all of the power generator types, use batteries, and flick on your wood generators when your battery is low.  Chemfuel generators are just a straight upgrade to wood later on, though, due to the drilling and refineries.  Turbines eventually just take up too much space and should be completely replaced with solar, but they're pretty good early on if you have enough batteries. 

Usually I go 1 full time wood generator, then add a geothermal, then start using batteries with unreliable energy and wood generators as backup.

As for scythers, yeah they're pretty hardcore.  I've mostly been nuking ships with mortars, which usually kill everything that isn't a centipede, though 

[Dashthechinchilla]

I can't find my Vent thing anymore, it's not in the Temperature tab. Does it need to be researched? Tribal start.

complex furniture. I use doors held open until I get it. Slight risk of disturbed sleep but not bad if you put the bed away from the door.

[Snafu_RW]

My pawns won't prefer power armor to devilstrand duster + flak jacket/pants. I understand the armor might be similar over chest but coverage is far different. They also prefer advanced plasteel helmets to power armor helmets. I get if the power armor helmet is low hp it makes sense to prefer, but even fresh good power armor gets ignored.

In my previous power armor ready game, I didn't have devilstrand, and when I would set a persons outfit to allow power armor they would go swap it out first thing even with flak.

IME pawns prefer apparel value over anything else, hence they're dropping high-HP/quality better protection to wear high wealth stuff. This has been the way for quite a few versions now..

[DariusWolfe]

Well, most water dries to gravel and that can't support heavy structures. So the pump is really useless. Only marsh dries to dirt.

You can build flooring on gravel, which allows it to support pretty much anything; at least that's been my experience. I can build stone walls and wind turbines that way, at least.

[dearmad]

Okay I have experience on two things. The weaker doors and the early game power setup.

On Cass Hard Jungle, without a river, it feels absolutely terrible getting power early on because I can't rely on that perfectly reliable river power anymore. My options are to rush batteries, but I definitely have more important things that need to be setup early before that, wind power or fueled generators. The problem with wind power is that despite powering 2 lights and a cooler, I can go long periods of time without power and if I have a fueled generator I have to constantly shove wood into it which is a crucial material early on. It's just noticeably more difficult playing now if I don't have a river, my B18 strategy was building a solar generator and battery on day 1 which IMO was overpowered, but the alternatives is to put a torch inside my house for basic light, but those raise temperatures and anger everyone.

I don't know a solution to this, because I don't think having batteries or solar panels at the start would fix it, just make it as easy as B18 is. Maybe add some basic reliability to wind power? The output varies, but I don't think a wind mill ever truly stops completely. And I don't really understand not having batteries at the start, I'm not that hugely bothered by it now that I saw you made the research path to a better research bench less dumb.

And onto the wooden doors, which flat out killed my colony before the first month. Someone went hunting, maddened a group of elephants, elephants wiped her clean and then tore ass after my other 2 folks, shredding the doors like paper and chasing them through 4 different doors in the base not stopping. I tried taking 1 on at a time in the doorway but of course this happened after they got injured the day prior and 1 died and the other downed. Everyone died. This entire series of events just kinda felt unfair to me, because I wasn't even able to just accept heavy losses, I HAD to accept everyone dies from this, I couldn't run anywhere and they all got downed so I couldn't even wait out the elephants maddening status.

I like making that door cheese tactic not work as well, I am guilty of it on a few occasions when the odds are horribly one sided, but currently the better material the door is, the slower they open which seems like an unneeded trade off and makes it hard to stop using wooden doors since those precious seconds add up. IMO all doors should open at the same speed, this makes logically and from a balance standpoint they cost more materials and take longer to build.

Of course that leads to a problem of people never building a wooden door..

Idk, I wanted to give some experience feedback, this is all from the last 2 hours of playing on the newest version.

I really don't understand any of this complaint. All that you describe is the half the fun of playing the game. Go play on a river map if you want river power... I mean "balancing" the game to take out differences in difficulties due to terrain and other start situations seems like trying to tilt windmills ala Cervantes. Poor Tynan, I hope he sees this and just ignores most of this.

Overcoming "problems" is what this game is about, and none of what you describe is anything to do with tedium or busy work.

And yes windmills DO stop (we have farms of them out here).