Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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Tynan

New build! Raw log:

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Text adjustments on prosthetic appreciation/disgust (since prosthophile/phobe was renamed).
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected apparel. Also resized some oversized art and made minor art fixes.
Wild men now show up in the Wildlife tab.
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected bodies.
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected head and hair art. Also made some minor art corrections (some fuzzy/bright pixels around hair edges).
Add ProstheticAppreciation/Disgust thoughts for Transhumanist/BodyPurist.
Reduce PSD size: Tribal headdress. Centered it (I intend to center the rest of the character art so we don't need a weird offset forever).
Fix: Stuff offsets not applied if stat value is zero or below because of accidental interaction with applyFactorsIfNegative. Also, moved stuff stat offset application after stat factors, since there's no sense in multiplying a stat's offset but its own factor. Adjusted gold, and silver beauty stat offsets. Result: Walls made of super expensive materials now have beauty.
Resized ship AI core building (3,3)->(2x2) to make symmetrical ships possible. Resized art to standard size per cell as well and cleaned it up a bit.
Reduce centipede health, armor, and melee attack power. Increase scyther armor.
PointsPer1000Wealth 7.8 -> 7.5
Fix: Shooting small-size targets makes people spray bullets more widely.
Fix: Shot spread suddenly becomes a lot wider if the target lays down (this problem still exists for target size).
Allow multiselect of wild healroot.
Tuned shooting spread curves. Moved shooting spread curves into ShootTunings.
Allow running conduit through smoothed walls.
Set a minimum aimon chance at 2%.
Refactor some shot accuracy code; moved accuracy variables into ShootTunings.
Remove meleeshoot functionality.
Add debug output to tune wild miss results.
Implement new wild-miss behavior.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

ReZpawner

For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?

Jstank

#377
outside temp 49 Degrees F and snowing?

I also noticed that the new crafting benches are not increasing crafting skill
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

             - Bernard of Clairvaux

desedse

Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What's the bug? That's not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I'm not sure if it's the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it's a quirk? No clue.

Edit: I've been playing in 64bit, I haven't checked to see if I'd have the same problem I'm 32bit though. I'll check when I get home from work

Bowman

#379
Great improvements so far, I registered just to help with some feedback on playing the unstable build - I've been playing for a long time but never posted...

Here's my feedback after putting in quite some time with the new build. For reference, I started alone and naked in a temperate forest with a river and a road on a coastal tile. I am now almost starting to build my spaceship with 10 colonists. I


- Rivers feel great now, they are interesting, as problems and as support. Make the map much more interesting.
- Related to that, bridges are really cool and fun to play around with - for chokepoints, and balancing them with walking needs to access the other part of the map.
- The coastline looks cool! In effect it makes my map a bit smaller but I like it. In the long run a harbor for building boats to sail around in would be interesting (I am on an inland sea with big islands and camps on them that I cannot reach I think).
- I really struggled because I couldn't build a campfire to cook at first, that was rough. I saw that the crafting requirement was removed, that is really better that way.
- I saw infections were scaled down a little but not too much. Good - they should stay menacing! They're annoying and at the wrong moment can be very scary. I actually got a gift of some ultratech medicine from my first caravan, and most of that was used over time fighting infections until I had trade and medicine up, as well as a backup medicine expert.
- Nitpicking: why is it "ultratech" medicine but "archotech" arms etc? There's a reason I suppose but it's confusing a bit.
- My colonist got her foot shot off, and there wasn't even a wound on the leg. Was that because it was a laser weapon? Still felt weird that she needed less attention than someone scratched up by a squirrel, and she was up and running instantly as well. Furthermore: There's no mood debuff for losing a limb in combat! I was almost excited when I checked her tab to see what that would be called and how bad it would be when it happened - but there was nothing. Feels like getting your foot shot off should have a debuff, they whine about everything else...
- Fires seem less crazy now, which is good. Still, dry thunderstorms happen quite often and they are just annoying. All I end up doing is manually fighting fires with my guys in draft mode until it's over, which is click-intensive but not fun. There's not really a challenge there any more either, especially with fires scaled down a little. I would reduce their occurence and/or replace them with flashstorms - they're over quickly at least.
- Difficulty: Distress call quests (helping out someone) are very tough to completely impossible to do at first. I twice had someone sad for 20 days for losing a loved one because I didn't rescue them. I did go to the place, but the bandits I faced were absolutely overwhelming. First one was my first survivor finding her father surrounded by 8 guys with guns, while she was in her first shirt and pants with a short bow. It does add to the story in a way, but it felt unusually hopeless.
- Difficulty: I got Poison Ship earlier than I would have expected - without knowing exactly what to expect and how to fight centipedes they are a death sentence.
- Difficulty: Some of the quest rewards helped me jump ahead just way too much. One of my very first quest rewards was a legendary chain shotgun that is still one of my best weapons all this time later. Going from short bow to chain shotgun, and then seeing an excellent sniper rifle in the first town I visited, took a lot of interest away from crafting. Maybe a few easier quests with less rewards could be introduced, some sort of scaling progression on them?
- I do like the world and how it feels. The mix of hostile and neutral places and the new goodwill system are great, they feel really interesting and organic. A minor nitpick: the peace talks feel too powerful. I got something like 70 goodwill out of them (with a 14 or 15 social skill, so I know I got lucky there). Working towards peace would be cooler if it were a process. In this case it was waiting for the event and then boom - over. Or maybe the event could be a reward for something?
- The world is great but it feels a little empty still. More towns or locations would make the realistically reachable parts of the surroundings more interesting. Maybe they have less to offer per store then... It's a problem though - you want the world to feel large, also for the trek to the ship, but then it would be swamped with locations. More quests maybe. They are really nice and make the neighborhood interesting, and give a reason to travel.
- since I'm at it: new caravan system is great!
-*Edited in: food poisoning has a problem: I know it's coming but the colonist is not considered sick. I can't just send them to a hospital bed or to their own bed even. Would be great if I could do that once they have the initial effect. What I do now is I draft them and have them waiting next to their own bed - in parts because they also drop their weapons and if I don't manually track a poisoned colonist their weapon ends up in the river and loses 10% before I can get someone to pick it up... Frustrating.

I didn't tame any animals but I don't mind the change in taming at all. All in all a great experience, even after way too many hours playing it's still a ton of fun and generates some crazy stories. 

Jaredmatt200

How do you register this game with this steam if you already have the owned from the website.

ReZpawner

Quote from: desedse on June 23, 2018, 09:17:55 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What's the bug? That's not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I'm not sure if it's the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it's a quirk? No clue.

Edit: I've been playing in 64bit, I haven't checked to see if I'd have the same problem I'm 32bit though. I'll check when I get home from work

That's the one, yes. It happens with small colonies too.

Polder

#382
I tried the Naked Brutality start several times and infections are often a death sentence. There is very little that can be done to avoid death from infection. The barrier to managable infections is high: either skill 8 in growing and a lot of time, or lots of silver and a lucky trade.

The way I'm adjusting to this is to start only with a super-immune colonist. Decent combat skills are also required or they will die to the first pirate raid. Which then leads to a lot of rerolling colonists until a suitable candidate is found.

BlackSmokeDMax


Venatos

Quote from: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 08:14:24 AM
Quote from: Venatos on June 23, 2018, 08:04:36 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!

this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?

We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.
the problem seems to be that the special case of *if the person would die soon* somehow put the other medical issues below basic needs, which makes for insane behavior:
"man im bleeding all over the place" somehow leads to: "i still have a few hours before im in any real danger, lets play some hooprings and eat dinner"  which usualy ends in: "what do you mean my arm is infected and you have to take it off?"
doctors seem to have a similar problem with priorities aka "going to sleep while patients need tending"

i understand that doctors take care of themselfs before feeding patients etc. but pretty much anything that isnt a bruise has preority over selfcare.

Flacwby

Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: desedse on June 23, 2018, 09:17:55 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What's the bug? That's not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I'm not sure if it's the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it's a quirk? No clue.

Edit: I've been playing in 64bit, I haven't checked to see if I'd have the same problem I'm 32bit though. I'll check when I get home from work

That's the one, yes. It happens with small colonies too.

The frames dropping on right click starts from the beginning, however the larger your colony grows the worse it becomes. It actually gets to a point where you can't control the colony once you get down to 1-2 FPS. As soon as you release the right mouse button, it's back to normal.

Alenerel

its saturday and you still updated it omg

gadjung

I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.



[attachment deleted due to age]

Polder

My colonist fought a rat bare handed, and several times during the fight had abnormally slow recovery time after performing an attack (looking at the log, this could be "kicking sand in the target's eyes"). It seemed to be about 2-3x slower than normal.

Nightinggale

Quote from: Gfurst on June 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM

  • don't remember if already mentioned earlier, but watermills are pretty OP, being an obvious choice early on an unparalleled power source despite its wood requirements, maybe make water flow variable like wind turbines
We could add a power factor to the water as a multiplier between 1 and 0. It goes up during rain and drops without rain. We can then make it depend on all the river areas upsteam and rain there as well. RimWorld doesn't use all the CPU cores, meaning it would be possible to make rainfall simulations on a different core, hence adding the feature without slowing down the game. We can even go extreme and make those points flow, meaning there will be benefits from placing wheels at narrow locations, even throwing rocks into the water to make even more water flow through the wheel. The wheel then eats up flowpoints, meaning you will not get twice as much power from having two wheels in a row.

The question is if it's worth the coding time.

One interesting fact to add is that the industrial revolution didn't start with water wheels. Water power have existed for ages (even the Romans used it), but it has reliability issues as it depends heavily on rain. In the 18th century, all the water wheels stopped in England due to lack of rain. A factory owner named Charles Bolton happened to come in contact with an unknown and penniless man called James Watt. Watt converted the factory to steam power, Bolton made a fortune by not relying on weather and they started Bolton & Watt, a steam engine production company. Watt later invented a method of making steam engines constant rpm engines, changing steam usage automatically to match the workload, something waterwheels can't do. This allowed the cotton industry to produce way more with significantly less workers. Those workers then went out to look for new jobs and became the workforce to really start the industrial revolution. Waterwheels became niche, but never died out because they work without fuel. Some factories used until electrification and even today waterwheels are in use. Go to youtube and you can see people making their own. I saw one, which pumps water from a river to some nearby cows while a fence prevents the cows from falling into the river. Yes, it's primitive and looks somewhat crude, yet it works, is cheap/free and is used in commercial production, meaning waterwheels aren't dead.

Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 07:21:08 AMSomething that seemed a little odd was that a river affected me the same in boreal forest when it was -17°C as in arid shrubland when it was 34°C. What I think would be really interesting and made the gameplay more engaging would be if the soaking wet debuff gave a debuff to cold resistance (perhaps even negate cold resistance of clothes).
An interesting fact to add here is that Japan has summers around 40°C and plenty of rain/water. Traditionally they took a bucket of water and a big spoon like thing, walked down the street and threw water around them. This made the stones wet and the process of making the water vaporize takes up energy, meaning it actually cools down the stones, making the temperature on the streets more comfortable. Now with indoor climate control, it's not as widespread anymore, but it haven't died out completely.

Water spraying cooling could be used in RimWorld, not as a freezer, but more like lowering indoor temperature from 40°C to 30°C. Add a new job, which goes to the river, goes inside, work quickly on a tile to lower heat energy on it and repeat. It does take up colonists to do so, but it could be a way to prevent heatstrokes during early/mid game during heatwaves.


Reading this thread gives me plenty of ideas, which would be cool to have ingame. However this thread is about core, which is aimed at new players. It should be well balanced, easy to understand and not bloated with ideas and concepts. We can all add mods if we want. Because of this I see two main tasks right now:

  • Figuring out game balance.
  • Locate all issues, which can prevent mod creations.
Lot's of people talk about #1, but somehow I have the feeling I'm the only one using ILSpy and Harmony to examine the code for modability at the moment. If it turns out that 1.0 is indeed the final version, now is the time to detect and correct issues for mods where we get the idea for the mod in 2020. I consider this issue to be way more important than details, which can be modded anyway.

Quote from: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 07:30:29 AMDon't worry, every message gets read.
I had the feeling of being ignored as well. Nobody replied and page after page were added until suddenly a reply stated the issue was fixed. I'm now once again able to mod the mod loading code  :D

Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.
ModCheck - boost your patch loading times and include patchmods in your main mod.