Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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Boboid

Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 01:39:14 AM
I have an idea. I can give you the decompiled formula if you want. But it won't be a piece of information, it would be a piece of data. And information derived from that data is - overall armor rating is an abstract number that has little to do with actual efficiency.
If only we were all capable of providing decompiled formulae while simultaniously quibbling over irrelevent definitions to help obfuscate our ignorance and unwillingness to contribute to a discussion usefully.
What a world that'd be! - One I'd immediately set fire to obviously.

Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 02:26:20 AM
in low arpen regime -  say, something like normal  autopistol with 15 arpen - power armor provides 123 effective armor, or 61.5% deflect, 38.5% mitigate, or 1/.192 = 5.2x  EHP
Thanks for the test - useful information to have.

Where are you deriving that ratio from though? It's my understanding based on the description of armor in game that the deflection and mitigation chance of a strike affected by armor is a flat 50/50 respectively.

Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 03:09:54 AM
By the way, is it actually intentional that 0% part efficiency for the neck begins at 3/30 health?
This seems a bit inconsistent, because for the case of all other vital organs that I tested (heart, stomach, brain), part efficiency scales linearly from 0/X to X/X health.
Seems a bit odd that 1/10 brain is survivable while 3/30 neck is not.

I can't have a look right now myself but is there any chance that they're dying at 3/30 neck health because their eating % is dropping to 0% due to a combination of neck damage and consciousness, due to breathing reduction + pain?

Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 17, 2018, 03:16:30 AM
Then, when was on my way back to the colony the 3 of them got ambushed... by 2 Labrador retrievers.  Yes, two of them, against 2 melee in power armor and a third in flak with a pulse rifle.
I think the random encounters in stashes and caravans still needs some tweaking.

The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
A prison yard is certainly a slightly more elegant solution to Cabin Fever than mine...

I just chop their legs off... legless prisoners don't suffer cabin fever

Tynan

New build! Nothing too crazy, mostly balancing. Ison is working on some localization system improvements so he's off the main game development atm.

A lot of bugs and other changes are being held off just because I want to get the balance in place first so there's time to test it.

Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.

Thank you to all those who gave feedback! I can't reply to each case but I'm certainly reading them all carefully.

---

Spine can now get permanent injuries.
Adjusted tundra and arid shrubland plant and tree density up. Slightly reduce saguaro cactus wood amount. Made tree sand cactus lifespan much longer. Increased all plants' lifespan.
Prisoners now have expectations the same way colonists do.
Increase "wild man wanders in" incident chance. Textile stuffs now have HP modifiers. For faster plasteel mining, changed mineable from 10,000HP to 8,000HP. Put watermills behind research. Removed waterproofing research. Allow making simple helmet at smithy. Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Storyteller refinements: -Adjust points per pawn based on wealth. -Adjust adaptation. -Adjust Randy pacing. -Adjust popultion intent curve. -Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
Misc text changes: -Fix typo: "repeated use will produce and addiction" -Fix typo: "Make sure that they get the best medical possible" -Fix spelling: "Commitment mode" -Reload anytime mode tooltip adjustment. -Relabel button: "Choose storyteller" to "Storyteller settings". -Fix: Resistance broken message reverses prisoner and warden. -Wanderer joins letter notes that you can banish sell or kill the joiner if you don't want him, but your people will be disturbed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now handles def injections.
Cleaned up keyed strings formatting.
Refactored MissingInjections() so its def-injections traversal can be reused. Added TranslationFilesCleaner (wip).
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

Tynan

Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.

On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

bbqftw

#2913
QuoteI can't have a look right now myself but is there any chance that they're dying at 3/30 neck health because their eating % is dropping to 0% due to a combination of neck damage and consciousness, due to breathing reduction + pain?
Breathing stat is identical to neck part efficiency if no other breathing maluses exist. If other breathing maluses exist (e.g. asthma) they appear to be applied multiplicatively.

Eating stat, if both consc and breathing are impaired, appears to be consc*breathing, which means that it can only drop to zero if one of the two drops to zero. And breathing would only drop to zero at zero neck efficiency, or zero lung efficiency.

If you have a 5/30 neck, this will have 7% efficiency. If you introduce a hediff that reduces part efficiency by 10%, then it immediately kills the pawn. Thus we know that 0% part efficiency neck is fatal.

QuoteWhere are you deriving that ratio from though? It's my understanding based on the description of armor in game that the deflection and mitigation chance of a strike affected by armor is a flat 50/50 respectively.
From what I understand, the deflection chance is effective armor / 2. But I did not empirically test this, and its not like we can find 200% sharps armor sitting around..

Oblitus

Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
If only we were all capable of providing decompiled formulae while simultaniously quibbling over irrelevent definitions to help obfuscate our ignorance and unwillingness to contribute to a discussion usefully.
What a world that'd be! - One I'd immediately set fire to obviously.
Our definitions of "irrelevant" and "usefully" are obviously different.

Greep

#2915
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM

Where are you deriving that ratio from though? It's my understanding based on the description of armor in game that the deflection and mitigation chance of a strike affected by armor is a flat 50/50 respectively.

It's a little more complicated than that, the 50/50 rule is only really accurate if you have exactly 100% armor fighting exactly 0 penetration.

Edit: basically what bbq wrote is correct, effective armor/2.  So if you had 200% armor and enemy had 0 penetration, you would never take any damage at all.

Edit: Removed the code, no reason to get too nerdy :D
1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

EvadableMoxie

Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:22:15 AM
Oh come on, this sounds adorable.

Oh, no. I know your tricks.

"Oh, a mad rabbit how adorable!"  Yea, right. Next thing you know, 2 colonists are blind and the third is dying to an infection.

...I may be a bit bitter.

Boboid

Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 03:34:05 AM
Breathing stat is identical to neck part efficiency if no other breathing maluses exist. If other breathing maluses exist (e.g. asthma) they appear to be applied multiplicatively.

Eating stat, if both consc and breathing are impaired, appears to be consc*breathing, which means that it can only drop to zero if one of the two drops to zero. And breathing would only drop to zero at zero neck efficiency, or zero lung efficiency.

If you have a 5/30 neck, this will have 7% efficiency. If you introduce a hediff that reduces part efficiency by 10%, then it immediately kills the pawn. Thus we know that 0% part efficiency neck is fatal.
Hrm.. that all makes sense. Makes 3/30 neck death even stranger.
It's also just occurring to me that necks are apparently tougher than limbs and skulls.
Quote
From what I understand, the deflection chance is effective armor / 2. But I did not empirically test this, and its not like we can find 200% sharps armor sitting around..
Judging by Greep's code dump it looks like you're right. Curse all mildly inaccurate tooltips!
That really makes the theoretical toughness of a Tough colonist in power armor quite whacky.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.

It was certainly more memorable than being attacked by 2 generic tribals that's for sure!


Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 03:38:52 AM
Our definitions of "irrelevant" and "usefully" are obviously different.
A-yup!
A prison yard is certainly a slightly more elegant solution to Cabin Fever than mine...

I just chop their legs off... legless prisoners don't suffer cabin fever

Greep

#2918
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
-Adjust animal contribution to threat points.

I think you added a decimal place on accident in this build  ;)  Unless it really was meant to go from .09->.1
1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

JavaWho

Transhumanist trait is not giving a mood buff for a bionic body part.
Sarcophagi no longer gives mood buff to burying a colonist.

Are these intended?

Broken Reality

#2920
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.

On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.

Please keep them. The sense of dread of "Oh shit an ambush" to "Awwww it's a frail, asthmatic chicken with a missing beak I'm fine" is too storyful to go. "So lads how did the trip go anything nasty happen are you all ok? ..... Yeah we got attacked but it was just a chicken and we had it for lunch.... So you had chicken dinner while we faced off raiders ok I'm going on the next caravan for sure!"

About "commitment mode" I'm fine with it and all but maybe add a warning that if your save gets corrupted you have to start over. It is the reason I don't use it having had saves get corrupted before so even if that's the style I want to play then I can't and won't if i want to keep my colony safe from corruption.

Sirinox

#2921
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.

That's interesting.
It wasn't that purposeless for me. I used it widely, especially in mid-late game with bigger and better populated prisons, to be on good terms with prisoners in case I choose to recruit them before slaver arrives, and mostly to train social skill. Since it doesn't raise from trading and casual colonist chatting gives pretty negligible amount of social experience, it was the most logical to practice one's persuasion skills chatting with captured members of other factions, even if I don't want to recruit them, before trying full-scale diplomatic attempts with them as caravaning for peace talks.
I'd not call it confusing, but if it was, maybe it could be just explained better instead?

Well, now I recruit-arrest-recruit people for that. Feels weird, but negotiator's skill won't grow on it's own and amount of prisoners to recruit is already scarce enough.

Polder

#2922
Some observations based on playing a lot on swamps:

Planning designations do not visually stand out enough relative to the dense vegetation found in swamps and probably jungles.

It is tedious to place growing zones on rich soil or plan around unbuildable terrain because it's very hard to see the terrain. What I have to do is check each tile individually to see the fertility, or attempt to place floor tiles everywhere to know where I can actually build. There should be a view mode for terrain type similar to the one that shows where roofs are.

It would be good if there was an option to set the usual bills on growing zones ("harvest if less than x in stockpiles"), so that we can avoid harvesting more than needed, or at least have a checkbox to toggle harvesting on and off. The reason for this is because it is hard to calculate how many tiles of growing zones I need per colonist, and crops can be accidentally destroyed, so it is wise to overproduce a lot. Overproducing has downsides though and the workaround to prevent overproducing involves removing the growing zone and manually marking plants for harvesting. Which means that I then have to redo growing zones, which is tedious if I want to keep them on fertile soil for the reason mentioned in the previous paragraph.

There are too many "animals join" and "animal self tamed" events (is the latter more common on maps with many animals such as the swamp?). Speaking of animals, I have not tested this so won't say much but I suspect that the choice of keeping animals for food and money (especially cows and pigs) is a rather poor one compared to simply growing crops.

Hunting on maps with a lot of medium and large animals can be excessively profitable under certain circumstances. One can quickly make thousands of silver if there is a town in range that will buy meat before it rots, and one has an effective hunter (it just takes a bolt action rifle and good shooting skill). Elephant tusks add even more value.

I noticed that the electric smithy not unlocked when the player has electricity and smithing. It made me think that there was no electric smithy and seems like an oversight.

Penoxycycline on swamps is definitely useful, but perhaps only on pawns that fill key roles. The name makes me think it's an antibiotic since tetracyclines is a widely used class of antibiotics. Sleeping sickness and malaria are caused by parasites, while the plague is caused by bacterial infection. It's no wonder that people are confused about what penoxycycline actually does.

Syrchalis

#2923
Quote from: Sirinox on July 17, 2018, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.

That's interesting.
It wasn't that purposeless for me. I used it widely, especially in mid-late game with bigger and better populated prisons, to be on good terms with prisoners in case I choose to recruit them. [...]

Same, it's actually a setting I use as often as release. You basically prepare the prisoner, but don't actually recruit them. Then later you can always choose to still go for the recruit or instead release him.

So purposeless? Not at all, not to me at least.

Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Spine can now get permanent injuries.
Adjusted tundra and arid shrubland plant and tree density up. Slightly reduce saguaro cactus wood amount. Made tree sand cactus lifespan much longer. Increased all plants' lifespan.
Prisoners now have expectations the same way colonists do.
Increase "wild man wanders in" incident chance. Textile stuffs now have HP modifiers. For faster plasteel mining, changed mineable from 10,000HP to 8,000HP. Put watermills behind research. Removed waterproofing research. Allow making simple helmet at smithy. Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Storyteller refinements: -Adjust points per pawn based on wealth. -Adjust adaptation. -Adjust Randy pacing. -Adjust popultion intent curve. -Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
Misc text changes: -Fix typo: "repeated use will produce and addiction" -Fix typo: "Make sure that they get the best medical possible" -Fix spelling: "Commitment mode" -Reload anytime mode tooltip adjustment. -Relabel button: "Choose storyteller" to "Storyteller settings". -Fix: Resistance broken message reverses prisoner and warden. -Wanderer joins letter notes that you can banish sell or kill the joiner if you don't want him, but your people will be disturbed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now handles def injections.
Cleaned up keyed strings formatting.
Refactored MissingInjections() so its def-injections traversal can be reused. Added TranslationFilesCleaner (wip).

I'll give my feedback based on my 1.0 experiences before this patch. More vegetation = definitely great, felt a bit low here and there. Especially arid shrubland often felt desert-like.
Hehe the wild man wanders in thing... as I said, never got the event in like 100 hours played or more in 1.0.
Plasteel being a bit less ridiculously slow in mining is surely appreciated.
Rest seems reasonable too. I am excited to try these out and provide my experiences once I've played - especially if they are very different from my expectations.
For mod support visit the steam pages of my mods, Github or if necessary, write me a PM on Discord. Usually you will find the best help in #troubleshooting in the RimWorld discord.

Uruk Ragnarsson

Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
New build! Nothing too crazy, mostly balancing. Ison is working on some localization system improvements so he's off the main game development atm.

A lot of bugs and other changes are being held off just because I want to get the balance in place first so there's time to test it.

Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.

Thank you to all those who gave feedback! I can't reply to each case but I'm certainly reading them all carefully.

---

Spine can now get permanent injuries.
Adjusted tundra and arid shrubland plant and tree density up. Slightly reduce saguaro cactus wood amount. Made tree sand cactus lifespan much longer. Increased all plants' lifespan.
Prisoners now have expectations the same way colonists do.
Increase "wild man wanders in" incident chance. Textile stuffs now have HP modifiers. For faster plasteel mining, changed mineable from 10,000HP to 8,000HP. Put watermills behind research. Removed waterproofing research. Allow making simple helmet at smithy. Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Storyteller refinements: -Adjust points per pawn based on wealth. -Adjust adaptation. -Adjust Randy pacing. -Adjust popultion intent curve. -Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
Misc text changes: -Fix typo: "repeated use will produce and addiction" -Fix typo: "Make sure that they get the best medical possible" -Fix spelling: "Commitment mode" -Reload anytime mode tooltip adjustment. -Relabel button: "Choose storyteller" to "Storyteller settings". -Fix: Resistance broken message reverses prisoner and warden. -Wanderer joins letter notes that you can banish sell or kill the joiner if you don't want him, but your people will be disturbed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now handles def injections.
Cleaned up keyed strings formatting.
Refactored MissingInjections() so its def-injections traversal can be reused. Added TranslationFilesCleaner (wip).

Ha - love the Luke reference on the Commitment mode tooltip!
What did the hat say to the scarf? You hang around and I'll go ahead.