Unstable build feedback thread

[Polder]

Okay, the reasons I never built wood armor is simply that I never researched the plate armor tech in any of my games. My thinking was that machining would let me craft armor anyway and would unlock other techs that I wanted. I did not notice the wood armor bit in the description, and plate armor refers exclusively to medieval metal armor in my mind.

[Perq]

Plate armors are a great addition, imo. Bridges the giant gap between technological levels we had - in most colonies I simply skipped most armor until I got power armors. Now they are harder to make, but there is also an alternative.

Wooden plate especially - easy to make, resources are usually available. But there is one problem, still - usually.

I still think that once you make some sort of armor, there should be a way of (at least partially) repairing it. Thematic reasons also apply here, too - in situations where resources are scarce, you'd make some sort of make-shift repairs to your armor (akin to armors seen in post-apo games like Fallout 1/2), so that it still offers you protection and doesn't fall apart.
Making whole new armor and throwing old one away seems kinda counter intuitive in such situation.
Thematic reasons aside, I think it would give people more incentive to make there armors, as they could be used for longer (but not repaired indefinitely, as it also doesn't make sense, both thematically and mechanically - some sort of repair limit, say 4-5 full durability values of new armor until it stops being repairable).

[ashaffee]

Personally the door thing is kinda good and bad in my view. As an extremist player I can develop doors that are meant to break to basically feed into a semi kill box (unintentionally). The ai can be manipulated to cross into my bunker rooms after breaking a door and funnel a little. They actually spread out more so each bunker has only a few guys that can safely be picked off. I never thought about this strategy until I saw the walls break so fast.

On the flip of the coin. New players are going to feel defenseless. Without researching guides on how to defend their base. The progression through the difficulty levels have changed a lot with the doors. There is a weird dynamic about how safe you want your base to be and how much time you want your pawns to navigate to the outside or even around your base.

A simple thing would make auto doors much cheaper and don't break down. Alternative would be allow me to do a close all function on my doors so I can hold some open without having to insanely micro manage to close them all afterword.

Personally I am stating I can easily get use to the new wall dynamic even though my previous strategy was to cheese doors. I strongly believe this change hurts your casual base heavily though.

Edit: My least favorite part of this change is the fact that I feel compelled to micro even more because the best strategy now is constructing and deconstructing walls instead of building doors. Since the price is cheaper and they are more sturdy.

I've read almost all the content on these forums since 1.0. My smoke break reading material lol. It is heavily saturated by veterans and extremist. I was in a thread on steam forums and many many casuals for 1 don't want to give up their mods and two don't like the idea of unstable. So the higher attraction of extremist means more theorycrafting to understand what a new player experiences. Their issues are  a lot of the time caused by lack of knowledge but sometimes it is extremely viable things that are just a little unwelcoming for new players. Ex. Manhunters relationship to doors.

[I Am Testing This Game]

Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug). Typically this happens when people are trying to have their colonists pop out to take potshots at the manhunters, which is intended to be non-viable as a strategy because it's micro-y and boring to execute and I don't want the game pushing players to engage boring activities.

Tactical combat in this game is inherently very fiddly and micro-y and based on trying to mess with the AI in order to gain an advantage through tactics instead of math (having more / better DPS, shooters, armor than the AI)

Doors are one of the relatively few interesting options we have in Rimworld tactical combat, which are interactive and allow for us to set up and execute strategies.

The alternative to high micro strategies is kill box like strategies, where you just set up in advance and win through math advantages, rather than micro.

Or just standing in field shooting at the enemies, which is a pure math check.

Despite the micro, tactical combat vs raiders is (usually but not always) fun, rather than boring, because raiders are interesting opponents with many different capabilities that are somewhat hard to predict.

Example from my 1.0 play: when raiders drop inside your base, using doors and small tactical movements to contain them, keep them split up, take out the guy with the moltoovs, assemble a defense and cleanse the base room by room is fun. Even though it's very high micro and any little mistake will cost you.

But manhunter packs are almost always boring, because they are predictable and always do the same thing and have very limited capabilities.

If the alternative to door cheese is just to have your melees hold a choke point while 6 people shoot over their shoulders, it's still boring. It's just a boring gear check / fingers crossed for luck moment, rather than a boring tactical combat.

Kiting them around is also boring.

Manhunter packs should be de-emphasized in favor of more tactical and interesting opponents (notably, over use of  pure melee raids risks making them manhunter-like aka boring at times). Manhunter packs don't show the strengths of this game. Trivializing manhunter packs is better than making them into gear checks, although I guess people can just zone themselves inside their base and wait them out. But that's a lot of boring micro to set up the zone.

Doors should be an interesting and viable part of tactical combat, but should be tuned so strategies like door peak shooting don't become overpowered. Tactical combat is frankly one of the strengths of this game. Don't ruin it.

[Wild_Cake]

What's happen from 1.051 to 1.053? I have seen some problems in the gebug window

[Yoshida Keiji]

I have always thought about uniforms for outfits, as Doctors having the medic clothing with the typical Red Cross sign, but that would probably not happen.

We do however have a new indicator at the Colonist Bar for inspirations which is a light bulb. Based on that, I think more additional icons could be included based on their current action.

* If a pawn is Building ---> Display a hammer.
* If a pawn is Cooking ---> Display a frying pan.
* If a pawn is Hunting ---> Display a bull's eye.
* If a pawn is Growing ---> Display the grazing icon, same for animals at caravan window.
* If a pawn is Mining ---> Display a pickaxe.
* If a pawn is Researching ---> Display a chemistry glass.
* If a pawn is Hauling ---> Display a wheelbarrow.
* If a pawn is Cleaning ---> Display a broom.
* If a pawn is Doctoring ---> Display a stethoscope.
* If a pawn is Wardening ---> Display a dialogue bubble.

Also, about the pawn icons...can we have their Health Points bar like most strategy games?

[Oblitus]

in most colonies I simply skipped most armor until I got power armors. Now they are harder to make, but there is also an alternative.

Yes, there is alternative. Devilstrand. Devilstrand set with optional flak vest (I want devilstrand flak vest!) can offer more or less the same level of protection as power armors, while being cheaper in research and production and offering much better insulation. In fact, I see no reason to switch to power armors even when I can afford them. Combat protection difference is non-existent (a pack of manhunting hares would tear you apart in a second anyway, so why to bother).

[Tynan]

What's happen from 1.051 to 1.053? I have seen some problems in the gebug window

Can you be specific? Is the build crashing?

[XeoNovaDan]

Could possibly be referring to the defName change from Plant_Raspberry to Plant_Berry, which would naturally affect back-compat. I've noticed that likes to spew out errors.

[Teutorix]

in most colonies I simply skipped most armor until I got power armors. Now they are harder to make, but there is also an alternative.

Yes, there is alternative. Devilstrand. Devilstrand set with optional flak vest (I want devilstrand flak vest!) can offer more or less the same level of protection as power armors, while being cheaper in research and production and offering much better insulation. In fact, I see no reason to switch to power armors even when I can afford them. Combat protection difference is non-existent (a pack of manhunting hares would tear you apart in a second anyway, so why to bother).

Heavyfur is better than devilstrand, just keep hunting those megasloths.

[Razzoriel]

Razzoriel, t-shirts won't deflect bullets, there's an armor penetration system.

Ok, so if you play the game of "i'm not posting how mechanics work", don't come to the community asking for feedback, because if you won't let us datacrunch the things you code, it's impossible to give accurate thoughts.

[Syrchalis]

Heavyfur is better than devilstrand, just keep hunting those megasloths.

I was under the impression devilstrand is superior. However, before it is grown, hunting megasloths is a good idea anyway since Heavy Fur is the best "leather" (aside from thrumbo fur) and megasloths don't fight back, so it's low risk. Plus you get tons of meat too.

[XeoNovaDan]

...

You've clearly missed the 'The balancing process' thread, where Tynan did indeed post how the new armour system works. Exact post, which is still relevant to the current implementation: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41839.msg412205#msg412205

[Teutorix]

Heavyfur is better than devilstrand, just keep hunting those megasloths.

I was under the impression devilstrand is superior. However, before it is grown, hunting megasloths is a good idea anyway since Heavy Fur is the best "leather" (aside from thrumbo fur) and megasloths don't fight back, so it's low risk. Plus you get tons of meat too.

Last i looked devilstrand only has 40% sharp armor, heavyfur is 46%

[Crow_T]

regarding manhunters and doors, my experience (mostly pre-1.0) is that the initial round always had animals giving up before a door was close to being broken- granted I use at least steel on exterior doors. I also use at least steel on prison doors, wood doors are for interiors use only, basically for privacy or temperature needs. Harder difficulties could have more persistent animals who will break down doors or walls, that would be interesting to say the least. I watch a couple of youtubers and mid game manhunters for better players are just a meat delivery, how to make them more challenging? Multiple points of break in? More vicious damage? That would be scary haha.

It seems some players want a guaranteed formula that always works, IMO that is boring once you have it figured out. Hopefully the game can retain a sense of some chaos and insecurity from beginning to end.