Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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gadjung

Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 02:29:27 PM
Was he otherwise healthy? My guess is something else was affecting said infected colonist, lowering his consciousness or something. Infection going extreme lowered it even more, below the death treshold and it killed him. Happens also with some drugs too.
He had some patched wounds/cracks/bruises and another infection on 'Major' with +10% immunity over infection.

Afaik when pawns die due to drugs it's caused by overdose roll and not because consciousness going below 0 (dont know if it's possible)

TheMeInTeam

Consciousness at 0 will kill them.  Reddit has plenty of threads where a weakened pawn smoked a joint, resulting it being the last thing the pawn did.

Madman666

Exactly. Overdose doesn't kill them, it only has a chance to cause chemical damage to the brain or liver, based on drugs used. Consciousness and most other parameters below certain treshold (i think 10%?) kills an otherwise healthy pawn.

TheMeInTeam

I think you need literally 0 to die.  Also only vital parts reaching 0 kill.  If pawn's "head efficiency" hits 0, pawn dies.  If pawn's "shoulder efficiency" hits 0, the arm isn't usable can recover if otherwise possible and the pawn will live.

Same goes if one lung hits 0% but not the other (pawn will survive this if the other lung works), while liver or heart hitting 0% is instant death.

Mihsan

Quote from: gadjung on June 22, 2018, 02:26:18 PMAnother question : why infection killed my colonist before it reached 100% ? Colonist had 'Extreme' 87% (ok he would die since he had immunity  82% but still i had hope...)

I am no the only one? Here is my bug report:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.0
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

Madman666

#335
Yeah you're not the only one, because its not a bug. Combination of blood loss, infection and maybe other stuff like pain, malnutrition, brain damage, drug use, other diseases can really easily lower pawn's vital stats below death treshold. At that point it doesn't matter even if he had already maxed immunity.

Mihsan

Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:27:21 PM
Yeah you're not the only one, because its not a bug. Combination of blood loss, infection and maybe other stuff like pain, brain damage, drug use, other diseases can really easily lower pawn's vital stats below death treshold. At that point it doesn't matter even if he had already maxed immunity.
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

Gfurst

Here I am again with rather lengthy notes, but first I would to counter some of other people's arguments:

  • First and foremost, don't go complaining about a feature/balance without actually playing and testing the game, its pointless if you don't even know how it plays out.
  • Second, I don't get why people play on the worse difficulties and then come complaining about it being unfair, wtf did you expect? Its meant to be unfair...The game offers a good enough range of difficulties and storytelling, stop choosing one to scratch your ego and pick the one you want to play at.
  • Animal training: if any of you actually played, you you find that its actually a minor annoying, painlessly to say the least, as long as they remain ticked you wont even notice, and to "untrain" an animal, you have untick it and wait for long ass while. The only point that needs addressing is picking the most appropriate food while doing so, so using kibble instead of valuable raw food or meals.
  • River crossing: again another minor annoyance, and if you're smart you could use it to your advantage on defenses. The moodlet is high but doesn't even last that long, though I agree a temperature modifier would be nice. The bigger problem I see is pathfinding, because at the moment it only seems to take time into consideration, where as it would be ideal preferred paths, like for example preferring bridges over river, avoiding bug infested caves, poisoned and burning areas. Though admittedly this is much more complicated than what it seems.
  • Item decay: also another minor annoyance people are taking way out of proportion, the system now takes several factors into consideration, if you leave something unroofed soaking in water, its gonna decay much faster than leaving something just roofed. The roofed item decay its actually pretty slow, so its still very viable to make outside sheds for early storage, not so in the long run.
  • Rough/polished stone walls: never really made any sense to me, why have smooth be prettier and take so much more work than actually building stuff. Since in my eyes they were always supposed to be only make-do, bare-bones, make-shift lesser versions than actually building walls and floors, something that you do to survive in caves and mines.The problem with this system, also comes from the fact that walls only have resistance/flammability/wealth parameters, so there isn't really that much meaning to differentiate  between them, and also no space for middle ground "not so bad" walls.

Now that's out of the way, here is a list of minor stuff I've found:


  • For inspiration, currently there only shows an icon on pawn portrait, that you need rover to find out what it is (if you forgot the message), and no mention of it anywhere else, maybe mention it other places and more detail on what they do, I don't think they show up anywhere on the pawn's info panel.
  • Pigs carry 70, while alpacas carry only 35, seems odd.
  • Hearts attack are pretty brutal, possibly going through all you medicine if you're unaware, maybe give more description on the message or more options for how to medicate it.
  • Autovents really should be a thing, making smart use of heat generating stuff is pretty cool, but pretty easy to miss and a hassle to do manually.
  • I don't know if this is the case, but caravans should be able to tend themselves/prisoners, currently I had to create another base (in the desert of all places) to setup a temporary camp so they could heal, so it would be nice if they could heal themselves while in caravan state, by stopping or setting up camp.
  • Some of the crafting benches that use different skills, like for example medicine making, its somewhat annoying that they fit all into the same crafting work order.

Madman666

#338
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:29:21 PM
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.

Are you sure not a single of those stats is below 10%? And no diseases\infections hit 100%? No vital organs badly damaged or something? If so - then yeah, its a bug alright. In that case you should post a screen or a vid in bugs thread, maybe also post your save for devs to take a look at.

Quote from: Gfurst on June 22, 2018, 03:33:13 PM
snip

If something feels minor or doesn't annoy you personally, that doesn't neccessary make it true for everyone else. And i also don't think its right to go assuming people here didn't even try playing, before coming here just to complain. RW offers really different experiences based on both difficulty and person's playstyle.

Gfurst

Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:29:21 PM
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Is it though, you'd need to review the save and pawn conditions just before he died, what exactly did he die of?
It could just be that he reached 0 healthy (maybe its conscious, the first bar down left). And from what it seems, if he had two infections, he was in a pretty bad shape.

Mihsan

Quote from: Gfurst on June 22, 2018, 03:36:01 PM
Is it though, you'd need to review the save and pawn conditions just before he died, what exactly did he die of?
It could just be that he reached 0 healthy (maybe its conscious, the first bar down left). And from what it seems, if he had two infections, he was in a pretty bad shape.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:33:55 PM
Are you sure not a single of those stats is below 10%? And no diseases\infections hit 100%? No vital organs badly damaged or something? If so - then yeah, its a bug alright. In that case you should post a screen or a vid in bugs thread, maybe also post your save for devs to take a look at.
I literally put a link of my bug report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.0 . All information is there.
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

TheMeInTeam

QuoteSecond, I don't get why people play on the worse difficulties and then come complaining about it being unfair, wtf did you expect? Its meant to be unfair...The game offers a good enough range of difficulties and storytelling, stop choosing one to scratch your ego and pick the one you want to play at.

"Challenge/difficulty" and "unfair" are distinct concepts.  It has already been pointed out that lack of agency = skill equalization of outcome, quoted paragraph is disingenuous.  If perfect prep/execution doesn't solve an encounter, the encounter is not "difficult".  It's anti-gameplay and should be removed for the same reason meteors falling on people and killing them was removed.

Speaking of vents, where are they?  I looked under temperature and there was no option to build vents.  I had steel.

PhantomFav

Honestly, I have found the "Forageability" and the "Forageability Rate" pretty pointless. When food is over, berries (100%) sustain the caravan for only few hours, meanwhile agave fruit (25%) is so slow to increase, that doesn't affect the durability of a caravan in any way. I think this part need a rebalance. In any case, you can't administer this scarse resources, for the the most needy pawns.

Serina

Quote from: Dargaron on June 22, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
I just noticed: chat and recruit got significantly creepier with the 1.0 update. So far, my colonist has tried to recruit a tribal by... (not all at once)
-talking about his sexual prowess
-asking about her pubic hair
-promising love
-discussing his genitals
-and encouraging Bat to talk about 'lovin.

When did my colonist become such a skeeve-ball? Is it because they're the same age and compatible genders, or because he has Creepy Breathing?

Lol! It would be funny if the creepy breathing trait influenced what the pawn said. Although not as creepy, I had a male colonist with Tunneler and Nimble behave as though he was Abrasive. Was pretty annoying to have him harass and insult the other two female colonists that I had. He was negative social with my female pawn but he kept trying to romance her by "playfully" making fun of her in some way or another and she wasn't having it. It would be ideal if romance attempts were tweaked a bit more, imo. Such as if the pawns are negative social at that time, no romance attempt will be made at all until their social is increased to a certain amount first. I definitely miss Psychology mod in 1.0.  :P

On a side note, just lost a colony in Phoebe rough (permadeath naked brutality) due to "random" events that didn't feel so random. Had about several days left in fall but it was already negative degrees outside. The pack of alphabeavers that came through completely devastated what little trees I had left on the map (tundra). I couldn't really kill them with my pawns before they ate all the trees because my pawns were pretty much naked and caught hypothermia pretty quickly. Keeping an eye on my remaining wood supply, I kept the campfire running for warmth while I scrambled to research solar panels. Was able to build the solar panels and heaters just as my campfire dies, I breathe a sigh of relief. I think to myself that I'm going to be okay. Suddenly, eclipse. My best hunter, Aster, catches frostbite to her fourth toe or something like that and quickly loses it before my other colonist, Jasper, can tend to her. My third colonist, Bella, was out fulfilling a trade request caravan (they wanted two dusters for masterwork flak pants and an excellent gun :D) got food poisoning (thanks, berries!) about a day and a half away. She manages to survive the food poisoning but is malnourished. I keep an eye on her and she almost makes it back to the colony. Her caravan was literally touching the home tile when she falls due to malnutrition. I send Jasper to help Bella because he was somewhat healthy and wasn't missing any body parts, yet. Bella dies as Jasper carries her back to their frozen home. I said goodbye to Snowflake, my polar bear before exiting the game and shaking my head at disbelief.

I was only able to tame and somewhat begin training one polar bear before my game ended. I don't mind that the animals now lose training over time, but I feel as though it's a bit excessive at the moment. I don't know if the animals lose training by failed training attempts or only if the handler isn't able to train an animal for a day but I was at 2/3 Obedience training on Snowflake and she ended up going back to 0/3. Training success was between 27-30% but I failed to train her daily for about 5-6 days straight, sometimes training her twice per day. I think I missed her training one day when her handler was incapacitated from being attacked by a hungry warg. I feel like I lost those two obedience points way too quickly on an animal that's already a bit harder to tame and train, although I don't quite fully understand the new training mechanics.

Diana Winters

I'm liking 1.0 so far, but there are a few things relating to rivers I am concerned with

1. Getting wet in freezing cold temperatures aren't taken into account for
2. Pawns won't swim for recreation
3. Sometimes thick roofed mountains/hills spawn over rivers and will immediately collapse upon map generation (see attachment)

While #3 isn't a huge issue, it does look funny, especially since if you break any of the collapsed rocks, there will just be water under them. (Note: this was generated on a "flat" map)

[attachment deleted due to age]