Unstable build feedback thread

[RemingtonRyder]

Is it really worth trying to put a fix in place for every weird exploit? If you're metagaming so much that you're beating up your own pawns, I say fair play to you. I don't think many people are going to play the game like that even if they know about it.

Yesterday I watched someone who drafted a colonist and ran them around a small mountain repeatedly to avoid another colonist who was targeting them for an insulting spree. So yeah, at least some people are going to play the game in a weird way, especially if they hear from someone else that it's a way to cheese the system.

[XghosT7]

Hello, i'm enjoying 1.0 so far and i made a challenging playthrough to test my skills, i went for Naked Brutality Randy Random Merciless at Temperate Swamp (I was rerolling until i got a good pawn).

Day 7 - a wild man comes to map, i manage to tame him the same day with 27% taming chance
Day 9 - i get offered a pirate chase quest, i see that the pawn is 17 years old so i take it expecting a good pawn (and he was decent)

However!, the scale of the raid was insane, before the raid from the pirate chase quest i only got raided once by a guy that had a Steel Mace of normal quality, is this scale of the raid intended or maybe it was a bug?, i have posted some pictures below with my wealth and what happened.

First pic (https://i.imgur.com/icD1hCl.jpg): shows the count of raiders and what weapons they have.
Second pic (https://i.imgur.com/cYwdjQp.png): shows graph and days passed: 9
Third pic (https://i.imgur.com/AzIo6kP.jpg): shows me trying to fight the raiders, i kited a raider to the trap in front of my door and as soon it hit him i got out and bashed him in the face with my mace but he didnt die... (melee skill: 11), in this setup i had lanilor as melee with steel mace and menino with short bow and shooting skill of 7, luke didnt have a weapon yet, i just got him.
forth pic (https://i.imgur.com/eyme8Xn.png): the result of raid.. they decided to kidnap Luke and Menino but they were moving so slow so i went with Lanilor and killed them with my mace.

How this colony ended: At the time of the 4th pic lanilor got infected and i had a doctor with 3 skill so my tending quality with herbal medicine was 0%, then everyone was injured and a wild boar started hunting me, i managed to kill it but it injured menino even more, then i had a problem with food so i sent Luke hunting but he hit the wild boar and all other near wild boars started hunting my whole team so they ate us.

[NagashUD]

Infestation reproduction rate should be reduce a bit imo, insects maybe nerf a little bit ? 10 explosives and incendiary traps, 2 turrets, plus 15 steel traps were not enough to stop the swarm (phoebe hard) ; day 183 (tribe start)

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[dnmr]

I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.

it takes so long to get to turret tech now, why don't traders offer them for sale now and then? Could be an ok way to introduce new players to turrets too

[RemingtonRyder]

Hey Tynan,

I noticed that in StorytellerUtility, the PostProcessCurve isn't very curvy. I don't know whether it no longer needs to be curvy because of other changes (for example, wealth is now curved) or some other good reason. Just making you aware.

[Jibbles]

I've noticed several shots going over a door shortly after it's done closing, at least in the earlier updates. I've assumed players noticed.
But... In this screenshot, "Odette" shoots "Daichi" exactly where he's standing. He hasn't moved recently and Neither has Odette yet she was able to hit him.
To top it off, she's a level 1 shooter :p I apologize if this is well known bug.
Second pic was just to see if it was consistent and it is.

[Tynan]

I've noticed several shots going over a door shortly after it's done closing, at least in the earlier updates. I've assumed players noticed.
But... In this screenshot, "Odette" shoots "Daichi" exactly where he's standing. He hasn't moved recently and Neither has Odette yet she was able to hit him.
To top it off, she's a level 1 shooter :p I apologize if this is well known bug.
Second pic was just to see if it was consistent and it is.

It always worked like this; you can shoot people behind cover if they're on the corner.

The visual representation doesn't exactly match what's being simulated.

[Jibbles]

It always worked like this; you can shoot people behind cover if they're on the corner.

The visual representation doesn't exactly match what's being simulated.

lol my mistake then. It's been some time since I've played b18 so I'm not remembering things correctly. 
I was thinking that only happened if they were taking cover while shooting.
If they weren't equipped then they wouldn't "peak."
So to have a bullet flyover the wall like that at that angle was confusing and can't recall experiencing that.
To make it a bit more clear, I would think either Rafael would have to peak and shoot, or Macer to step aside to the tile on the right to land the shot.
Thanks for the quick response.

[5thHorseman]

Just had a hairy couple days, Cassandra Medium. Day 342 or so, based solely on the last raid in the graph because I was a bit too busy to pay attention. I actually suspect it was more like day 354 and sieges don't count as "raids" for the graph, because I don't think 15 days have passed since the below incident, more like 2 days tops.

I got a single notification that there was an infestation, but got 2 actual infestations. Not sure if they can split up like raids do, if you can actually get 2 so quickly that they only get one notification, or if there was a weird bug or something. However, they did spawn very far apart (one in my home zone, the other off in a cave near but not in my crypt). They did not pop up at exactly the same time, but within maybe 10 speed-1 seconds of each other.

I fought off the one in my home zone, and right as we were killing the last couple bugs a siege arrived, quite well decked out though I don't know exactly how many. Maybe a dozen or a bit more than that. I sent my 4 melee guys to the mortars and everybody else to the siege itself. Which, incidentally, had a relationship in it. I generally ignore those warnings. You want to kill me, I'm going to want to kill you first. I don't care whose wife you are.

It was around this time that Vance (who I've actually mentioned twice here, he almost died after eating some questionable dog meat on a caravan and also nearly escaped back when he was a prisoner due to a visiting caravan using his prison door so much) decided that the fact that his room wasn't as nice as someone else's was enough of a reason to become an extreme break risk. I queued up a jade statue to be put in his room after the fight was over, but that didn't seem to placate him. He had actually just gotten back from another caravan, and hadn't eaten so he was pretty hungry. I decided to give him the battle off and let him catch a quick bite. We've got 11 other shooters, 4 mortars, and Fox - our pacifist medic who just loves dragging fallen soldiers to the medbay.

And we didn't need Vance at all. We totally butchered the siege guys, killing about 3/4 of them before they even knew what hit them but right after they'd built a mortar. Free mortar! I queued up all the forbidden stuff to take back to the base, and the sandbags to be deconstructed, and...

...and then I noticed that bugs were running rampant in my combination growing zone/muffalo grazing area, which was just outside that cave that the second insect infestation had spawned in. I kinda figured they'd keep to themselves like natural bugs do, but nooooooo. Vance, the only guy I wasn't directly controlling, was of course there too so I drafted him again and set to work. He had managed to eat but was still a critical risk. I didn't think much of it at the time.

I used the closest colonist to flick on the turret switch, and brought everybody into the zone. I micromanaged like a concert pianist, and managed to not lose anybody (though 3 colonists and all 3 of my muffalo were downed) as we killed the final insect. WHEW.

And then Vance decided he'd had enough. Remember how I said I didn't care whose wife I killed? Well, I should have. It was Vance's.

It took 2 guys to melee him down but only one to drag him to the medbay to sleep it off.

Everything's getting back to normal, but man that was a rough time.

Here's some graphs and a picture of the colony for funsies. The first bugs arrived in the lower left near Sonia, the second way up in the upper right where that glow pod is. The siege was off the top of the map. Don't make fun of my colony it's like the 4th one I've ever had that made it past the first year or two.

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[Sig]

I suggest slowing down the deterioration rate of hay when roofed outdoors. Having elephants entering buildings through doors to eat the hay makes me feel strange things deep within my soul.

[Ser Kitteh]

On hauling:

1. The low-priority "haul to merge" is working just fine. No complaints other than I've seen them stuck in a loop at times like in that one reddit post.

2. Animals haul just enough to make them useful. I think they do it more often too! (Feels, not facts)

3. "Opportunistic" hauling way back in the earlier builds of 1.0 seems to never work ever. You know how you send your builder to deconstruct ship chunks and they do so but never haul back the components but Amy all the way at base decides to do it instead? Yeah, it'd be nice if colonists, after deconstruction or a long period of being draft (i.e battles), they scan around to haul things back to base (weapons, corpses, etc).

4. Colonists still are unable to haul medicine from pack animals to tend to the wounded during raids. Really, doctors should carry medicine by themselves. It's very annoying to find that one muffalo who carries all the meds, at the edge of the map, and you needing to pick them up, draft them to where your colonists are bleeding, and drop it from their gear tab.

5. Despite making bedrolls useful in caravans, colonists insist on putting them on pack animals instead of on their person (sometimes they give other bedrolls to the same person!) and what's the point of having them still if they're not gonna pull them out and put them on the ground when on a map? It'll help them heal faster, instead of needing to do the same song and dance of dropping stuff from the pack animals and choosing to install them one by one. Not as useful during outpost raids because you can claim enemy beds, but a pain nonetheless.

[Emulsion]

4. Colonists still are unable to haul medicine from pack animals to tend to the wounded during raids. Really, doctors should carry medicine by themselves. It's very annoying to find that one muffalo who carries all the meds, at the edge of the map, and you needing to pick them up, draft them to where your colonists are bleeding, and drop it from their gear tab.

+1 for the doctors carrying medicine, I'd like that option even at home. Like the 'take to inventory' option from the drug schedule..

Regarding that: in my old colony I set a schedule for everyone to take pekoe tea and yayo into their inventory, the schedule was set so that they wouldn't consume it by themselves (only under 1% joy and 1% mood) if it wasn't for addiction. I just wanted them to have it at hand if needed.
I experienced that at any given time only one or two of the 12 colonists had any of it in their inventory, I don't know if it's a known 'bug' or why they decided to not follow this order but i'd welcome it if that behaviour changed or if someone could tell me how to set this up the right way if the mistake was on my side.

[Ser Kitteh]

Pawns are able to use drugs and food from their Inventory. Why not medicine?

And yes, I have Smart Medicine installed because it's such a QoL improvement.

[zizard]

I don't like how mechs become the most common raid in late game. They are very tedious and unforgiving compared to pirate raids. Even if they were made more fun, I think their probability should be at most 40%. I think it would help a lot to have some mech types that are less extreme with their roles, compared to the current super sniper, super amputator, and super tank. Perhaps something around 4 speed with a mid-range burst fire gun and claws for melee.

In general enemy variety is a problem for non-human raids. This is a shame because the main thing distinguishing RW from similar games is the shooting and cover system; but in late game, between insects and mechs, most enemies are best destroyed with as little interaction with that system as possible.

[Broken Reality]

Cass - rough, tribal, temp forest, year round growing, large hills.

Posted a couple of times about this colony. Got to the end of year three and things have started to get rather hectic. Back to back mech drop pod raids landing inside my base, I managed to get one of my colonists to grab the EMP grenades just in time but it still turned in to a bit of a cluster ****. Another mech pod raid this time landing outside my base. I decided to try a trap maze and nothing would come near it even when it led to an open field of crops and I had colonists near the maze. Unless directly aggroed the mechs (and all other raiders) will happily wander about and then pick a wall and attack it, doesn't matter what raid type you get they are all sapper raids now.  A 31 man tribal raid followed this up, I got sloppy and lost some animals (a recurring theme towards the end was animals not moving to safety fast enough when told and dying) also a few colonists got downed.

Then came the psychic ship. While I was preparing (and recovering still from the tribal raid, wounds are taking a long time to clear so bad fights snowball the amount of injuries as you will be wounded for the next fight) I got an 18 man pirate raid with 3 Doomsday rockets and a triple rocket. They drop pod in just south of my base so I have little time to prepare and i mess up and take the doomsday rockets to the faces of three of my colonists who somehow survive with no permanent damage though they were all downed (and one of their chain shotguns got vapourised). So now I have a bunch of critically injured people and the psychic ship has ramped up and everyone is going mental. So I have to deal with the ship before everyone starts chaining mental breaks. 2 centipedes, 2 lancers and 6 scythers. The centipedes and lancers decide to take a daytrip to the north side of my base while the scythers run around to the bottom of my base to kill my boomalopes and then headbut walls.

The mechs at the top of my base break in and I meet them with my colonists, a couple of melee, 2 chain shotguns, several assault rifles and some snipers. At close quarters the chain shotguns shred the mechs, then I just have to deal with the pack of scythers to the south. Once the dust was settled everyone is bleeding, I just about get everyone bandaged up before a dozen or so mental breaks occur and i don't have people free to arrest anyone so my rec room gets trashed (two different people decided to tantrum breaking my masterwork marble pool table and masterwork marble poker table, tantrums seemed to be the theme and a bunch of other things got broken as well). At this point I'm too tired to play and making mistakes as well so i came to post instead.

I did do some caravanning and missions but only a few times. My first quest was for a techprof subpersona core, as a tribal start I jumped at this. The timing lined up nicely and I get the reward just as I finish researching electricity so I get microelectronics for free. I didn't do any more quests for a while (I forget quite when it was, but the other quests didn't have rewards that interested me or were too far away to be worth the risk) and a quest for 2 techprofs and 29 glitterworld meds for taking out a bandit camp guarded by 8 people. This got me multi-analyser and fabrication and a third quest got me power armour research. All in all quests saved me 34000 research which helped rather a lot as a tribal start.

This colony reinforced on me that killboxes and trap mazes don't work and that after you get walls up all raids are sapper raids (even if they aren't) or drop pods. I'm not sure what to change defense wise about my base. I have finished researching all the turrets but I don't honestly think I would use them much except for some mini-turrets to try and deter sappers from certain areas (though I don't know if this still works like it did in B18). This run I've had raiders ignore a direct open path to my crops (before I had a perimeter wall) and instead break down the wall to a bedroom and try to go through it rather than walk 20 tiles to the gap.

Thinking more about why I'm not using turrets and it isn't the cost to build them. The upkeep cost is not something that bothers me in principle but I dislike that no matter how many shots are left it always costs the full amount to refill a turret. If you want to be combat ready then you will waste steel otherwise you will have turrets run out of shots mid fight. Also with the way raids are now, how they spread out, ignore killboxes and randomly break through walls, turrets are a hindrance not an asset. You can't reposition a turret to drop aggro or pull raider closer to your defences. Turrets also shoot your colonists with friendly fire and turrets are best used to defend set hardpoints but raids don't like attacking down set routes now so turrets lose effectiveness as you cannot concentrate them like in the past and spread out they don't do enough for how inflexible they make your tactics and combat. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this or getting my ideas down right (I am very tired lol)

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