Unstable build feedback thread

[iamomnivore]

The reactive slow-down speed changes are making me want to punch a baby. Sitting and watching any events that cause this, go on long-term, is painful. Please, give us an "override" option to speed up combat and negative events if we so choose.

Or, just allow the speed to go to whichever we manually choose (I mean, we chose it right? Can't get upset if something bad happens.) We used to be able to speed it back up after a short, set period -- regardless of dangers. This is missed.

[m44v]

Regarding chemical interest, a pawn at 50 mood will have a drug binge randomly once per 50 days. So slightly more than once per year.

With chemical fascination, it's once per 25 days.

Unless there's a bug, of course. Also, the chance is higher at low mood and lower at high mood. In future I want the game to report the cause of mental breaks so it's clearer what's going on.

I know you made some changes in the last built, I just want to add that this wasn't my experience. It isn't uncommon for my chemical fascinated pawn to go into a drug binge 1 or 2 days after the last one (see images), I can't put it in a single screenshot but it had 3 binges in the span of 6 days once. I don't remember the pawn's mood at the time, it's usually over 50 but I can't say at the moment of the mental break.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[gadjung]

i don't have that kind of op raids yet, but fighting in a choke-point, having 3 guys with emp granades/emp mortars, and rest with normal ones usually solves problem (no loot though)

[EvadableMoxie]

i don't have that kind of op raids yet, but fighting in a choke-point, having 3 guys with emp granades/emp mortars, and rest with normal ones usually solves problem (no loot though)

Tried that, doesn't work.  Even with 6 pawns firing with pulse weapons and 2 spears they adapt and go EMP immune.  The one behind the one in the choke fires at the melee from behind the one at the choke. Eventually the melee go down even fighting 2v1.  And the fight takes so long that everyone's food, rest, and recreation goes to 0 and the break.

I did manage to win, barely, because I got insanely lucky and 2 centipedes died to traps.  Half of them I managed to kite around and the others I just let wreck my base while I waited for the ranged to finish off the ones they were kiting. Then it was a rough battle in the middle of my colony but I won again because I got lucky and the one inferno cannon centipede left didn't get any shots that landed before I focused it down.

I don't think there is a way to handle it consistently short of a ton of turrets, but I'm trying to avoid doing that.

[Razzoriel]

Only Charge Lances can reliably (and even then, centipedes will ding ~15% of the shots) pierce the centipedes' armor. Scythers have very close armor values, but their HP is only a fraction, so people don't feel the battle lingering too much against them. Either Tynan needs to tinker around armor penetration values for some weapons or their armor will ding a lot of the shots. Danny's stats show now that longswords are the best weapons post-new internals, and maces are not as viable, still. A warhammer/sledgehammer of sorts that can deal immense damage with a long cooldown could solve this, penetrating by default the armor more reliably.

[fritzgryphon]

+1  Never use pyros or chem-int/fasc.  Their market value is the same as a pristine pawn, but they have no upside to balance their massive negative trait.  One random break at an inconvenient time can wreck you.  No reason to develop and equip them when the pyro will die by blowing up a mortar shell, and the chem-int/fasc will get banished when you get tired of drying them out, or they get brain damage.

Many of the negative traits are like this. There's no reason to tolerate flawed pawns once you find better ones.  It's fun to prune your colony to fit your vision of a master race, but I'm not sure if that's intended.

I like the idea of traits being balanced, like how 'sickly' gives the pawn better medical.  The pyros and junkies might be worth it without the high mood breaks, and special powers. 

Pyro -  Immune to fire stagger.  +X% accuracy with fire weapons.
Chem Int. - Improved resistance to tolerance and addiction.  Manufacture drugs faster.

[Dargaron]

Yeah, I'd have to say that Centipedes are still way too durable: especially in melee. On Darg's Dregs, I just got a Poison Ship w/ four Centipedes, two lancers and one scyther. The Lancers/Scythers together managed to tank 20-some Steel Deadfall Traps, but I managed to lure one of the Centipedes into a solo engagement w/ one power-armored melee pawn (Melee 14, Excellent Steel Longsword, Masterwork Power Armor Helmet, Good Power Armor), backed up by a Chain Shotgun (Shooting Skill 10, Excellent Chain Shotgun, Bionic Arm) at point blank range. The one(!) centipede managed to walk right through the remaining 2 Steel Traps, down the Power Armor pawn, and still get a Minigun volley off at the Chain Shotgun pawn before finally going down. I ended up going back to good-old door kiting to take out the other centipedes, because that was still the best option.

A centipede should never be capable of taking on two fully-equipped lategame pawns when it's locked down in melee. Otherwise, you're basically forcing the player to use mass Autocannons, which is both 1: counter to the current design idea of expanding tactical options and 2: forcing yet another steel tax onto the player. I invested 190 Plasteel, 5 Advanced Components and 10 regular components (not counting the cloth and steel involved in full Flak for the shotgun pawn) in order to take down one(!) centipede.

[Kalre]

Game is not enjoyable at all on Extreme now, recruitment is super hard, eye scars anyone ? brain damage anyone ?, run wild cause of darkness ?, slaughter ?, food poisoning simulator ?

[Greep]

Regarding chemical fascination guys, it's counterintuitive although very thematic, but I've actually found an insanely good use for them:  many of the threats you face on caravan sites are all melee, so if you down some go-juice you can take everything out very easily before you get bionics.  Normally a bad idea for a pawn you care about in the long term, but this is great for someone you're just going to banish after a certain point anyways.

[Sirinox]

Yeah, I'd have to say that Centipedes are still way too durable: especially in melee. On Darg's Dregs, I just got a Poison Ship w/ four Centipedes, two lancers and one scyther. The Lancers/Scythers together managed to tank 20-some Steel Deadfall Traps, but I managed to lure one of the Centipedes into a solo engagement w/ one power-armored melee pawn (Melee 14, Excellent Steel Longsword, Masterwork Power Armor Helmet, Good Power Armor), backed up by a Chain Shotgun (Shooting Skill 10, Excellent Chain Shotgun, Bionic Arm) at point blank range. The one(!) centipede managed to walk right through the remaining 2 Steel Traps, down the Power Armor pawn, and still get a Minigun volley off at the Chain Shotgun pawn before finally going down. I ended up going back to good-old door kiting to take out the other centipedes, because that was still the best option.

A centipede should never be capable of taking on two fully-equipped lategame pawns when it's locked down in melee. Otherwise, you're basically forcing the player to use mass Autocannons, which is both 1: counter to the current design idea of expanding tactical options and 2: forcing yet another steel tax onto the player. I invested 190 Plasteel, 5 Advanced Components and 10 regular components (not counting the cloth and steel involved in full Flak for the shotgun pawn) in order to take down one(!) centipede.

Why shouldn't they? Aren't they like crawling tanks? Large, heavy and slow plasteel armored heavy war machines. Why should they be reliably downed with just two pawns fighting them in such straightforward way? I recall in earlier versions to fight them unstunned in melee with even larger squad was a way to get at least few casualties.
Even their description mentions that they are vulnerable to mobile hit-and-run tactics, not to be casually downed by two armored pawns.

I suggest instead of massing autocannons you supposed to stun and/or outrange them.

[Crow_T]

I don't deal with pyros, the chemical thing it really depends on stats. My issue is you can't lock them out of the drug stash, I'd be fine if they had to break down a wall or door to get to drugs but as it stands they can access the stash at will.

[Greep]

Re: centipedes.  Well in previous versions they also had 2 weaknesses:  slower movement and they got seriously shredded by explosions.  So early game it was easier to pot shot them, and late game you could go to town on them with your rocket launchers or grenades.  Both are still an option, just not quite as good anymore.

[iamomnivore]

Game is not enjoyable at all on Extreme now, recruitment is super hard, eye scars anyone ? brain damage anyone ?, run wild cause of darkness ?, slaughter ?, food poisoning simulator ?

I can somewhat agree. Last several runs have been ... interesting. Slaughterer mental break is way too common. Lost all my animals, multiple times. I finally started beating the breakee down (chancing permanent damage and death, each time.) Eye scars have been common. Recruitment is a joke -- 99%, anyone? Does another percentage even exist? Run wild is very difficult to manage, in some games. Didn't grab a real Handler? Well, you may have just permanently lost a colonist (probably to a minor break )

Food poisoning can get out of hand but, I do find that keeping the kitchen very clean prevents much of this. The slaughterer and Murder mental breaks are very different with this not-so-interesting thing where they ignore anyone attacking them -- to get to their target. Lost an animal while beating the pawn down. Had a pawn nearly beat his Murder target to death ... while getting pummeled by the rest of the pawns.

It's just ... I love Extreme. Love it. Love the challenge and the brutality. However, there are several factors that I no longer feel I have control over or simply cannot withstand (with every bit of planning and shoring up weaknesses.) These don't tend to create stories but, slaughter my colonies outright.

I don't know what should change, though ... it's a delicate balance. I do feel that 'Extreme' is as close to perfect as it's ever been. Only minor adjustments would be necessary (if at all -- maybe I just need to 'git good' ) The best feedback I can give is: The early difficulty is where much of this seems to kick in. Seems like the beginning phase is taking notes from the mid-game.

A final thought: Is it normal for a 14 skill Handler to break into Slaughterer over and over? It was like this guy went Slaughterer every time he broke (multiple times) and every time he went for the animals -- his furry buddies!

[Dargaron]

Why shouldn't they? Aren't they like crawling tanks? Large, heavy and slow plasteel armored heavy war machines. Why should they be reliably downed with just two pawns fighting them in such straightforward way? I recall in earlier versions to fight them unstunned in melee with even larger squad was a way to get at least few casualties.
Even their description mentions that they are vulnerable to mobile hit-and-run tactics, not to be casually downed by two armored pawns.

I suggest instead of massing autocannons you supposed to stun and/or outrange them.

Because if you recall, the reason that the door opening speed and hit points were nerfed was because popping in and out of doors to shoot was seen as tedious micromanagement. However, that's exactly what I did to deal with the other three centipedes: I had my Chain Shotgun pawn pop out of a door, shoot the centipedes, then run back inside before it could fire. It took FOREVER, and on a larger colony (such as the 11 centipede raid that EvadableMoxie screenshotted on the previous page) would be mind-numbing tedium.

Centipedes without Scyther support should be vulnerable to melee, or else what's the point of scythers at all?

EDIT: Also, they aren't being "casually" taken out by two random pawns. This is a master at melee combat, wearing the most up-to-date Spacer armor available, backed up by the most deadly close-combat weapon available. I'd expect such a team to take out at least one primary ranged combatant when attacking from ambush, in close quarters.

[KnewOne]

Think it already was mentioned, but can smoothed wall, that are designated to be mined , be ignored from repairing ?