Unstable build feedback thread

[Greep]

Eh, I don't really see a need to mess with research points.  Not everyone starts with an industrious nerdy guy or plays new arrivals, in which case it's very slow.  I personally already feel the need to do this if I want to embark with colonists->turrets rather than mercenery types.

[Madman666]

Thats also true. If you don't have one, or aren't lucky enough for storyteller to toss you one - you can get real stuck on research.

[Tsunami]

Hi. First post here, I'm a bit confused about DPS figures.

I just started a new game, Naked Brutality on a Boreal Forest Map. Initial Colonist has brawler so I crafted her a wooden club, and then as soon as I'd mined my first steel, a steel club.

I looked at the stats on the two weapons:

Wooden Club:
  Tool: Handle (Poke)
    8.1 Damage
    2.00 seconds per attack

  Tool: Head (blunt)
    12.6 Damage
    2.00 seconds per attack

  Final Value: 5.42



Steel Club:
  Tool: Handle (Poke)
    9 Damage
    2.00 seconds per attack

  Tool: Head (blunt)
    14 Damage
    2.00 seconds per attack

  Final Value: 4.52

Why is the final DPS figure for the wooden club higher when the individual attacks on the steel club are higher?

[I Am Testing This Game]

Research is frankly not a strong point of this game.

It must be hard to balance, because the situation changes quite a bit during the game.

At first, you are using a primitive research bench in the dark in a cave, high penalties, with a non-specialist pawn whose labor is valuable; high opportunity cost to research, you could be doing something vital to survival instead.

But relatively soon thereafter, you are going to have a specialist pawn in a specialized, bonus giving environment, who can research full time with a low opportunity cost. And you can feed him pretty easily. And he may still be useful for defense, so he's good to have around.

Some aspects of early game research might be fun, but late game research is awkward. I often research many tiers of weapon at once, before I begin the process of manufacturing them.

Research: low opportunity cost, as described above.

Making guns: high opportunity cost, master crafters are harder to find than research slaves. You could be making clothes or items to sell. Also they need their manipulation stat intact, unlike researchers.

Solution: Research several tiers at once, make good stuff that will last a long time, especially as item condition no longer matters as much. Build it once, build it to last.

This is doubly true in 1.0 as you will capture many perfectly functional low tech firearms from enemies... no need to make new ones with perfect durability. In earlier betas, the weapon system was much more complicated, as damaged guns from raiders were less effective.

When research has a high opportunity cost, it's more of a decision; weigh the tradeoffs between researching or doing some other labor.

By the mid game though, it's just a thing that happens passively in the background, not much gameplay involved. And... that's what you're working towards. You want to get a research slave set up ASAP... to trivialize the research mechanic.

Also, maybe it's just me, but if you are going to code little additions into the game, they should be used. Right now the research trees put many items behind little stub research paths. You'd only research them if you were playing a mode where you don't really care about winning.

I preferred a more conventional tech tree, in earlier betas, where you had to go through pre-reqs to get important techs. It's not realistic, but it gives steady progress and it brings interesting items into the game. Items you won't see otherwise.

I won't go into suggestions because that's theorycraft, but basically, a conventional tech tree like in other games, taking into account the MASSIVE disparity between early and late game research efficiency.

[sylasha]

I've been playing quite a bit, and without using mods, I am unable to sell any meals to anyone, even when it says the trader will buy them.

[Serina]

The resurrector serum says "Outcomes are better when the mechanites are administered to a fresher body. Well-preserved bodies can be resurrected , even long after death".
You can resurrect bodies so long as they're merely Rotten, not Dessicated.

Depending on the environment that the corpse is left in it can last a surprising amount of time in the Rotten state. And they won't rot at all if frozen.
I'm not totally sure what would happen if you buried someone in a sarcophagus in a freezer, I -think- the game handles it correctly and the corpse is preserved but I haven't tested it personally. I have vague memories of digging up graves in polar environments and discovering they were still fresh.

Geez, this thread moves so quickly. Anyway, thank you for the clarification. After reading about Sapper, I tried to revive an old colonist but unfortunately she was already desiccated. Next time I will try the sarcophagus in a freezer and see if it works.

[jchavezriva]

Another issue regarding hypothermia is that when a pawn is unable to walk, he just wont put on a parka as he should. I need to build a room, and make sure the inside is warm so he can survive.

Just as we have an option to strip them, can we have an option to clothe them while unconsious?

[Teleblaster18]

Eh, I don't really see a need to mess with research points.  Not everyone starts with an industrious nerdy guy or plays new arrivals, in which case it's very slow.  I personally already feel the need to do this if I want to embark with colonists->turrets rather than mercenery types.

Just as part of my ongoing ridiculous wishlist: 

I'd love to see the possibility of a Research Table randomly catching fire or disintegrating during research.

Great discoveries aren't without some element of risk.  Just ask Marie Curie about that one.

[Madman666]

Yeah, why not. 250 steel and 10 component cost, pfe, who cares. Maybe even have it evaporate along with Multi-Analyzer. Or even better - have it blow up like a mortar shell on a critical failed dice roll. Seriously, aren't "Zzzt" events you can't counter with anything at all enough?

[jamaicancastle]

Yeah, why not. 250 steel and 10 component cost, pfe, who cares. Maybe even have it evaporate along with Multi-Analyzer. Or even better - have it blow up like a mortar shell on a critical failed dice roll. Seriously, aren't "Zzzt" events you can't counter with anything at all enough?

Perhaps a fixed recharge cost per time spent, like fueled stoves or turrets.

Put coffee in your game and require it as upkeep for tier 2+ techs. Ask any mathematician, nothing gets done without coffee!

[dritter]

"Made smelting slag yield more steel."

Before this patch, smelting slag yielded 10 steel right?  It still yields 10 steel right now.

[Serina]

https://imgur.com/a/Ky2u5UH

Odd behavior from "predator" pets. Midnight was hungry so she decided to go out and hunt an ibex. Ibex becomes maddened and strikes back, Midnight flees (?) instead of finishing off her meal. The ibex are now manhunter status and heads towards the colony. I found it a bit odd/funny that predators flee from their prey after it gives them a couple of bruises. lol.

Also, I've already mentioned this twice before but never got a response. My last raid was day 157, it's now day 311. I've continued to play this save in hopes that I'd eventually get a raid with the new updates, but so far no luck. I can understand the friendly/neutral factions not attacking, but there's no reason the pirates haven't come to pillage my booty after 154 days. Imo, this should be looked into because it's quite game breaking for raids from pirates to cease after you've become friendly/neutral with the other factions. This save file feels so stagnant and boring now, knowing I don't have to worry about raids. I've started several other save files since I've started having issues but I continue to come back and check on this colony after every patch just to see if the raids were "fixed". I have no idea if it's broken, but it sure feels like it to me.

[Nitrovore]

So here's a funny story for you. I started playing 1.0 pretty much when the dev first dropped. Lots of things looked cool, excited to see where these changes went and how they influenced gameplay, but after a couple quadrums I noticed something - the game was definitely easier than I remembered. Raids were smaller, I didn't suffer a single permanent injury for 3 years (though a lot of this is due to the new armour system which I LOVE), and generally I was starting to lose interest due to lack of challenge.

Then I noticed I misunderstood the new difficulty names and was playing on a lower level than I was used to. Guess I play Rough so often I just assumed it was the medium one!

Anyway, W.R.T. more specific things with this build;

-New river stuff is cool, they now feel like more than just obstacles.

-More developed lategame is a big plus, no longer are all useful techs done in three years, have yet to launch ship so can't comment on the endgame rush

-I already mentioned the new armour system, the whole "fewer but more significant wounds"  is interesting, but what I really like is the new dimension it adds to weapon choices. Once, when those psychotic non-fleeing tribal sappers were charging, I put my only power armour on my Tough colonist and put her in the front as a decoy - then, when they were all over her, had a bunch others open fire with shotguns and machine pistols. None of those weapons had any chance of penetrating her armour and she got out with a few bruises while the raiders were shot to pieces.

- I'm a little iffy with the new art TBH. It's not that it's bad, so much as that a lot of it doesn't fit well with existing graphics. Even just adding a few graphics that are sort of inbetween the old and the new in style would do a lot to bridge the gap. Right now the difference is kind of glaring tbh.

- Shooting in melee changes threw me a bit. When I started 1.0  it was still a thing, and now the raiders could do it too. Had some serious trouble meleeing a early raider with my brawler (though that *may* have also been due to said raider's surprisingly good armour, Tough trait AND Painstopper  ). Then point blank shooting went away, and predator attacks got much harder. I would actually quite like this IF undrafted pawns reacted instantly (shooting or running) rather than the second or two delay we seem to have at the moment. That's probably the one change I'd like the most at the moment; with ranged pawns now doing worse in melee there needs to be better reactions to the threat of melee.

- (Slightly theorising, but based on past experiences)  Just saw that you nerfed the greatbow a fair bit, kudos for that. That damn thing was too out of league with the other neolithic ranged weapons. I'd like to see a bit more rebalancing with pre-gun ranged weapons, currently there isn't the same level of "what's the best for this situation" decision making  you get with all the other weapon classes (guns, melee, grenades, spacer).   Making the greatbow no longer be a bolt-action rifle in disguise is a step in the right direction IMO

That's about all that springs to mind at the moment. There's obviously a bunch of other changes/new stuff / rebalancing I didn't mention for brevity's sake, but in general I am a big fan of 95% of this update, this'll be a hell of a game when it's finally done

[Teleblaster18]

Yeah, why not. 250 steel and 10 component cost, pfe, who cares. Maybe even have it evaporate along with Multi-Analyzer. Or even better - have it blow up like a mortar shell on a critical failed dice roll. Seriously, aren't "Zzzt" events you can't counter with anything at all enough?

Not for me.

I'm only half-kidding with that suggestion, but in truth - by the time I've ever had Advanced Research Benches, steel and components are generally not in anything near a short supply.

Live a little, Madman666.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Syrchalis]

Eh, I don't really see a need to mess with research points.  Not everyone starts with an industrious nerdy guy or plays new arrivals, in which case it's very slow.  I personally already feel the need to do this if I want to embark with colonists->turrets rather than mercenery types.

Well, that was the whole point. I said that early on research is really slow and everything should be cheap, except for the big advancement (aka electricity). Later research can be more expensive than right now, because by then you have all kinds of bonuses stacked up.