Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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NagashUD

#555
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )

ashaffee

Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )

In 1.0 you need more than just a horseshoe pin. As your colony grows more and more diverse joy sources reduces their tolerance to joy. My preferred setup is a dining room with a tv, pin, chest table and pool table inside of it. Giving your colonist assigned joy time at start and end of days lets them go watch the sunrise/sunset as well.

bbqftw

#557
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 04:13:26 PM
I still haven't 100% worked it out...when is it possible for pawns to traverse between squares diagonally, and when is this restricted?  I sometimes see pawns dart between each other in checkerboard setups, but in others the game insists on pathing them through something that slows them instead or blocking them entirely. 

Even after reloading/replaying some encounters I've not pinned down a consistent model that allows me to anticipate what happens each time I right click a drafted pawn.  Sometimes, they move right past diagonally and sometimes they don't.

Same deal for pawns moving through each other.  As of 1.0 this is much more restricted...but sometimes they still move through each other while usually they can't.  Absent consistency, it would be nice to know what the rules allow in terms of movement since this stuff has a huge impact on raid micromanagement.

I noticed this as well while testing some 1.0 movements.

I think part of it has to do with reserved movement. Even in b18 you could not issue a movement comand to a square reserved for a pawn movement command. However you could achieve fluid control in that patch by undraft draft. Two new changes are that a pawn in a reserved space will instantly try to move off the space at the earliest opportunity where they are not locked by an animation, and second,  is that pawns will now 'reserve' spaces the game is forcing them to move to (this happens a lot with tightly clustered pawns if they are jostling each other).

This causes situations where if you intend to place a pawn in a doorway, while it was reserved by someone currently standing in another tile, the pawn will path through the doorway completely, because the door is reserved by a pawn drafted somewhere else (again, this is very different behavior from b18 as a drafted pawn would never reserve tiles it wasn't standing on, now it can happen)

This can be disaster, since that one tile is the difference between getting hit by 1 or 5 enemy attackers at melee range, not to mention walking into no cover.

I have noticed other situations where collisions during a movement command will cause asinine repathing but this is kind of hard to reproduce.

Again, it can't be overemphasized that during outnumbered fights on extreme where you aren't completely cheesing the enemy, fluidity of control and making sure pawns take the actual paths you want them to take (and not a path the game 'helps' you to take) is of utmost importance.

PS for claims of overpowered or balance it would be helpful for people to state difficulty they play on. Even in this thread there are certain users making wide range assumptions about optimal play / overpoweredness and making passive aggressive 'get gud' snark  despite playing on beginner difficulties.

Serina

Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly

( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )

There's a new recreation tolerance introduced in 1.0.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422604646

Colonist schedules: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422601348

The more resources your colony has, the more recreational variety your colonists require. I like this new system, personally.

Mirador

Hello Tynan,

Love what you did so far.

As requested, here some feedback after testing a few colonies in unstable version 1.0, Cassandra, Some challenge
(now medium).

Bug/Features I noticed:
- Pawns do not receive any additional moods debuff from banishing a pawn with who he share a relationship with (wife, etc.).
Personally, I would be pretty angry if my wife/son/brother etc. would be banish.
- I cannot prioritize a pawn on an art job when the sculptor table is being used by another pawn. This behavior seem
unique to sculptor table.
- Pawns prefer to eat pemmican over simple meal, even if the simple meals is closer to the dining room. They also often
eat packaged survival meal while I have other meals available. Some control on what pawns are allowed to eat would be nice! =)
- A brawler pawn with no passion in shooting can get a 'shooting inspiration' event. If brawler dislike ranged weapon,
how can they get inspired by it?
- Manage drug policy menu still use Joy wording instead of Recreation.
- You cannot install a cooler or vent over a smoothed wall.
- Raiders will sometimes try to "flee" literally through my base.

Various suggestions/observations:
- It would be nice to have a way to dispose weapons earlier than electric smelting. After all, I can burn a power armor
in a campfire...but not a wooden club. ;)
- When rescuing a pawn that want to join the colony (escape pod or rescue mission), it would be nice to have the option to
"accept/decline" their offer to join. Another idea would be to have a small time period where you can banish him without
consequence.
- "Pause" caravan should be renamed to something like "Rest". Also, it would be nice if it would provide a bonus to healing
speed/immunity gain as getting sick during travels can be really bothersome. As a matter of fact, I did loose a pawn
to infection while having a doctor with 15 medical skill & proper medicines access in the same caravan.
- Infestation can happen in multiple and sometime far away area of the colony. However, the alert message
only show you the main infestation area. Maybe, you could add additional arrows showing where the infestation is, like when
you get raided by multiple groups.
- I do feel that Intellectual skill have a bit of limited use and really don't have much use except drug synthesis once
all tech are finished. Perhaps using it to craft components and advanced component would be a good idea as it's often
a busy job for colonists.
- Speaking of which, there seem to be 4 different "work types" associated to Craft inside the work tab. Drug cooking
(cooking skill), drug synthesis (intellectual skill), crafting spot (crafting skill) and unskilled labor (stone cutting,
chemfuel, smelting). Also crafting a bow from crafting spot and smithy use different priority even if it's the same item.
To make it worse, the work tab say that it's related on crafting skills and passions while it rarely use that skill (only
non drug crafting spot) Maybe it should be renamed and/or split in their proper works assignment. For example, drug cooking
could become a low cooking priority job, crafting tribalwear a tailor job, crafting tribal weapons a smiting job, etc.
- Adding "Force March" option to caravan could be a nice idea.
- It's really minor but it Would be nice to be able to place floor under large furniture, like the electric crematorium,
comms console, etc.
- Speaking of which, pawns can have some difficulty to build corner wall if adjacent walls have been already build.
- While watching the information screen on a pawn, it would be nice if we could switch from one to another.
Otherwise, any way that would allow us to see and compare pawn stats (like Numbers mod) could be really nice.
- Maybe that just me.. but every colony I build end up by being a massive... warehouse. Personally, I would advice to
increase the items stack a bit. Maybe 100 instead of 75 ? ;)

As others already reported/suggest:
- Having medieval helmet that fit with the plate armor would be great!
- I think it would be a good idea to merge meats like what you did for leathers. Another idea could be to add a bill for
"Mixed meat", just like Patchleather is for leathers.
- It would be nice to have an interface to see what is inside a transport Pod when loading. Also, it would be great if
the game would allow more than one colonist to load a transport pod.
- The game slowdown greatly when opening context menu.
- There should be an option to allow time to stop with a popup When a caravan arrive at his destination.
- When undrafting hungry pawns, they immediately start eating a meal even if the game is still paused. Which will be instantly
dropped if I prioritize them on something else. It would be nice if there were a small delay (at least wait until unpause) so
pawn don't carelessly leave their meals on the ground after a fight. Another idea would be that the pawn could put back
the meal in his inventory.

I must admit that I often use a lot of mods (mods junky, heh). However, you really did a great job on the QoL aspect of the game
and I feel like I don't need as many mods as before. This being say, there is still one function that I miss a lot and
it's the ability to mark some items to be haul urgently.

Balances Feedback:
- The game economy is much better than before. It's harder to get insanely rich, which is a good thing!
- Raiding/infestation difficulty curve seem pretty good as well. It's good to feel challenged even in mid/end game where
your base is fully fortified. Combat is more fun in general!
- Also feel like melee fighters are much more viable then early version.
- Caravan traveling is much better! Rewards are often worth it. My only real issues is about infection/sickness
during travel.

Hope this will help!

MikeLemmer

The issue with Recreation Tolerance is it's really easy to set up a situation where colonists barely do any Solitary Recreation. I had an arctic colony on the brink of collapse (without any set Joy hours) and the colonists only did Solitary Recreation once in a blue moon. It was also extremely easy for a colonist to get "stuck" doing a recreation at just 10% efficiency.

FrodoOf9Fingers

Enjoying a lot of the changes, though I'm still heavily reliant on mods to tailor the experience to me.

If I may suggest, melee and medicine are the only two skills that don't have a good way of training automatically. Medicine not as much, as the need for medicine occurs regular. But melee is just hard to train without direct control of the pawn, unlike shooting which scales as pawns hunt. Can you make it so that there's a small amount of melee XP given when a pawn does minning? Doesn't have to be large at all, say an eight or a quarter of the XP granted to minning.

ascyron

Hi,

I have been playing 1.0 for a few days now and thought I'd share some key observations, bugs, etc from my colony.

I played the Crashlanded scenario on Cassandra with "Some Challenge", landing on an "easy" year-round growing temperate forest.


  • I'd forgotten there was so much micro-managing you need to do for Toxic Fallout! During the TF I think I found a bug: Colonists don't respect allowed areas when a marriage is happening. Of course they chose the middle of a toxic fallout to go get married out in a field!!
  • It seems a bit unfair that the "kibble only" insect meat is priced the same as all other animal meat. I think that's a change from previous?
  • Wind turbines are even more of a pain in the ass now, and I don't think I'll be using them in my next colony.
  • You can't place a growing zone on constructed floors, but if one's already there, it's not destroyed when you build floors over top.
  • Pawns can play horseshoes with a closed door in between them and the shoepin.
  • Pawns who are incapable of dumb labour can still do opportunistic hauling jobs.
  • You can "deliver resources to grave" even though graves require no resources.


QoL Mods I'm really missing in 1.0, and feel could be added to the base game:


  • Urgent hauling. I really want a way to say "hey this is important, take it first before you do anything else" without micro-managing every colonist/item.
  • Stockpile % refill: Being able to control that colonists will only refill a stockpile after it gets below x% really helps with efficiency and avoiding micro management. For example, having a single stack of corn in my kitchen, which only gets topped up when below 33%, saves running back and forth to the freezer for every meal. (or smokeleaf when making joints, cloth/herbal/neutroramine when making medicine, etc)

Aerial

#563
Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.

Screenshot attached.


[attachment deleted due to age]

Ser Kitteh

+1 for changing pause to rest. Idk if it's gamebreaking to maybe also give a slight boost to recovery chance (pawns often get infected after their own raids). Perhaps equivalent to staying in bed? Maybe use bedroll qualities? Player inability to control their medicine and their tending is quite frightening to a new player. Again, not a new player, but consider this to a new player's perspective.

Bedrolls are pretty much useless as they were before. You need cotton/leather to make them. The only real reason to use them is if you don't have enough trees around but if you can make bedrolls there's animals around and you can hunt them well enough. Even in the event of players using bedrolls for raids or whatever, it's finicky to set them up to the point I just use sleeping spots. The Use Bedrolls mod lets pawns carry one around in their inventory and places them on the floor when used, quite useful for post battle patch up. Maybe add resting effectiveness during caravan trips?

Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg

Being able to flick a switch while drafted is so useful. I really appreciate this! No more undrafting colonists just to turn on the turrets!

I would be totally fine if, when starting a new game, the priority system is 100% blank. I understand new players may need an idea how to use it, but considering that I've started God knows how many colonists, clicking everything to 0 so I can copy paste each pawn's priority individually is always a pain.

ashaffee

I definitely agree that bedrolls need to be adjusted for your new world map. Since we have so much more motivation to explore we should have motivation to pack for the trip properly. I think bedrolls should have quality attached and trying to travel without them is a neg mood. Also an idea that is probably better suited to be a mod, a stretcher to carry allies back home faster.

Diana Winters


Dargaron

Quote from: Aerial on June 25, 2018, 07:30:55 PM
Is this a bug or intended?  A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood.  The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that.  The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.

Screenshot attached.

Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.

Aszh

Thank you thank you thank you for 64 bit.  Tons of great changes here, but that may be the best one.

Feedback: my doctor went to sleep instead of tending somebody who was bleeding.  I thought that was supposed to change this patch?

Ser Kitteh

I see you are a woman of taste, Diana. :V

+1 for the stretcher. Pawns don't even need to put a pawn in there, it could be a passive item in their inventory.