Unstable build feedback thread

[Greep]

Electricity maybe.  In any case, I was about to write a rant n research but I think we're getting a bit off topic, this sounds like it's own suggestion thread at that point xD

Anyways, started over my boreal mountain base as a boreal caves base for a variety of reasons.  One thing I noticed is that a lot of cave starts don't really have much caves.  I think most people go into a specific map type with a specific strategy in mind, so this is a little disappointing having to pick some colonists that aren't braindead only to find you want to reroll the map.  Less bad than finding out your map has a hidden pocket midway into the game though.  I ended up just getting a little less picky with starting colonists, and ended up settling on my third map which had a decent cave network.

Another thing I noticed is that pretty much my all encompassing strategy for killboxyness is to get allied asap and start pumping in steel and only steel.  I used to take maybe a psychic lance or a doosmday rocket, maybe a sniper rifle, but none of that now really.  That's one pitfall to adding steel maintenance of turrets.

[Syrchalis]

Electricity maybe.  In any case, I was about to write a rant n research but I think we're getting a bit off topic, this sounds like it's own suggestion thread at that point xD

Tynan asked specifically for research experiences. My experience was that early game you "have to" rush for the big advancements just to get all the bonuses. Detours to things you would like to have, but aren't as important (Devilstrand, Long Blades, Smithing, Recurve/Long Bow, Plate Armor, Tree Sowing) are a waste, because for just one or two of those you might as well get Electricity.

That's why I think Electricity should be much more expensive and the other research cheaper. This way you actually have a choice: Get all the tiny research projects first OR rush for the big jump in tech OR pick the few tiny research projects you need most, then go for the big one.

Right now it's pretty stupid to do anything but rush the "big" one, because it actually isn't big at all.

[Fritigern]

I'm on year 10 of my colony with over 30 pawns, and I can officially say I have begun cheating to survive mechanoids in 1.0

Psychic ship landed just outside my defensive line at the front of my base (Ideal, right?) which consisted of a long sandbag and granite wall line designed to act as the main ring for my defenders from which I could pivot all other defensive measures around. I had several sniper and autocannon turrets and 6 EMP mortars.

6 well trained melee fighters in good-legendary power armour with excellent-legendary plasteel longswords. Everyone else was fully kitted out in either full flak gear or with dusters made out of some kind of exotic material like thrumbo fur which gave them superior armour to flak. Excellent assault rifles were abound, had a legendary mini-gun and several lances on top of a nice collection of masterwork sniper rifles.

I didn't stand a chance at all.

I spent 3 hours reloading the fight over and over again, changing everything about the fight from positions to weapon loadouts. I threw everything I had at them right off the hop, I retreated into the very center of my base and tried to let the turrets whittle them down. I threw every dog and chicken I had at them. Nothing.

I just gave up after a while when I realized I wasn't enjoying myself anymore. Centipedes are anti-fun, and fighting 14 of them on top of 20 lances and 20 scythers is just cancer on wheels. So I just used the console to kill every centipede on the map at spawn and had myself a great shootout with the scythers and lancers. Bunch of turrets got destroyed, two people died and I lost a heap of arms and legs, but it was a fun fight.

Mortars suck. Even with 6 of them shooting EMPs I was very lucky if even 1/4 of the mechanoids got stunned at the start of the fight. Once adaption kicked in I just took them off the guns entirely, because trying to hit them with high explosive shells is a joke and they do no meaningful damage either way.

Turrets evaporate under lancer fire and centipede combined fire, to the point that they aren't even a speed bump in their advance.

I have 2 legendary charge rifles and I'd trade them in for 2 excellent assault rifles any day. Their range is too low to be of any use and their damage isn't meaningful enough to try and force an entire fight to work around them. It's not like they could do anything anyways since a scyther would just tank their first burst and be in melee range right after.

Centipedes are just too tanky and too destructive. They absorb a huge amount of damage and blow up a huge amount of shit. Why don't we split them up like we did with the scyther/lancer? Can we have a tanky centipede with a boring ol' mini-gun on its noggin and then have something smaller and less tanky setting shit on fire and shooting laser blasts all over the place? It'd really do a lot to help, I think. At least then I could have the option of focus firing high threat targets.

Overall I'd say killboxes are less of a requirement to get through the early stages of the game, but if this is going to be near the final balance we'll see in 1.0 official then I see no alternative but to keep building them. I would rather be outnumbered 10 to 1 by raiders, or a 100 to 1 by tribals than have to fight an equal force of centipedes.

Some other things that are pissing me off on year 10 are resource shortages. Steel is a constant struggle and plasteen can now only be acquired through trading or the EXTREMELY rare resource lump quests. Mechanoids aren't even a good source of it anymore which removes the reward for beating them lol.

Speaking of trading, I used to maintain a year-round trade caravan that would go around fulfilling trade requests and doing faction missions, but with the latest updates this has pretty much ground to a halt. I haven't had a faction mission in 3 years and I am lucky to get a trade request every 1 year, and when I do get them they are almost always of no value to me. To top it off the prices and selection aren't much better when I take the effort to go to the towns in the first place so I have really run out of reasons to justify a never ending caravan, which is a shame because it was where I was deriving the most enjoyment from the game.

[Lanilor]

Electricity maybe.  In any case, I was about to write a rant n research but I think we're getting a bit off topic, this sounds like it's own suggestion thread at that point xD

Tynan asked specifically for research experiences. My experience was that early game you "have to" rush for the big advancements just to get all the bonuses. Detours to things you would like to have, but aren't as important (Devilstrand, Long Blades, Smithing, Recurve/Long Bow, Plate Armor, Tree Sowing) are a waste, because for just one or two of those you might as well get Electricity.

That's why I think Electricity should be much more expensive and the other research cheaper. This way you actually have a choice: Get all the tiny research projects first OR rush for the big jump in tech OR pick the few tiny research projects you need most, then go for the big one.

Right now it's pretty stupid to do anything but rush the "big" one, because it actually isn't big at all.

For a tibal start I think you are right. It's weird that one can instantly research electricity. There should be some form of prerequirements.

In general I think research is going in the right direction. Like you said, some of the key-researches could be a bit more important to ffel more impactful, but I wouldn't increase that too much. On harder difficulties you can't research that much because of less colonists, more death/injuries and others, so it shouldn't be that much harder.

A small thing: I would like to see the researches that require the high-tech-bench move more to the right (x + 1), so they are behind microelectronics. That would make the dependecy a bit clearer. (And also reduces the huuuuuge gap to the final charge weapons a bit.)

In my current naked survival run I am really slow with research. Part of it because I did focus on other things of cause, but mainly because I had no colonists for research. They all had no passion, low skill and died quickly and the colonists that were alive needed to do other more important stuff. I got my first (and only) colonist with int passion on day 109 and before that I only had researched a few really needed things like power and machining.

Edit to hop on the topics of the previous post:
I agree with the trade stuff: While I wrote for the patch before that, that I got way to many offers, I now got only one world event in a year or even longer. Could just be back luck, but I think this is too rare.

With centipedes I didn't have problems at all. The times I fought them, my melee just engaged and tanked the centis while the shooters  focus on scythers and lancers first and then help with the centipedes. They didn't even do much to the melee guy, only a few bruises (no power armor, just duster and flak and the good ol' bowler hat).

[Greep]

Ah if he asked for it then, I was about to say that the biggest issue is just the early game crunch for defense.  Unless you're using animals, deadfalls, or extreme tactics, you've got to have some sort of way to even up the odds against against the raiders because they outnunber you very quickly.  The first raid is a dude, the second raid already outnumbers you, and that third is just crushing. 

Without research, you're likely fighting like 7 guys with 4 colonists with T-shirts, jeans and whatever you picked up from raiders which is like a few pistols.  So you can go for turrets, heavy armor, or precision rifling, and all of these require a high level dedicated researcher, which I don't like.  It used to be this was unnecessary because I think there was just one research called "guns" and autoturrets was also a single cheap research. 

Then that changed with the idea that you had a longer progression, because people just researched guns and went specifically for assault rifles immediately.  Unfortunately, now you research guns, and have nothing worth building because the initial stuff is still expensive, doesn't give you an edge which you need, and gets almost immediately outclassed.  Same with flak gear, you build a few bits of armor which simply will not cut it against the odds.

So things like increasing the cost of machining, or anything on the early offensive line, just means wanting to embark with an even more dedication research guy    I think this could be alleviated by simply making the early game even easier raid points wise and further reducing the cost to build early game gear, giving your colony a whole 2 months or so to prepare yourself and have things like smgs cost like 30 metal and a component, but some may not like that.

[Jstank]

Now that you introduced craftable chocolate, and considering that nobody ever makes lavish meals and nobody seems to be planting coa-ca trees atm, wouldn't it be a good idea to make it so that a lavish meal includes just one piece of chocolate and .25 veg and .25 meat! A dessert with the meal would make the colonists very happy and certainly lavish!

[Lanilor]

Now that you introduced craftable chocolate, and considering that nobody ever makes lavish meals and nobody seems to be planting coa-ca trees atm, wouldn't it be a good idea to make it so that a lavish meal includes just one piece of chocolate and .25 veg and .25 meat! A dessert with the meal would make the colonists very happy and certainly lavish!

That would make it even worse to cook lavish meals. I think adding a small value of th food recreation type to lavish meals would be good.
I mean the idea with the dessert is quite nice, but needing chocolate makes it even harder to craft and even less worth imo.

Without research, you're likely fighting like 7 guys with 4 colonists with T-shirts, jeans and whatever you picked up from raiders which is like a few pistols.  So you can go for turrets, heavy armor, or precision rifling, and all of these require a high level dedicated researcher, which I don't like.  It used to be this was unnecessary because I think there was just one research called "guns" and autoturrets was also a single cheap research.

You don't really need research to fight raids. Get a few sandbags or even stones and a good position for fighting with your weapons against the enemies weapons and it should be fine. And if you think raid sizes are too large, you can also lower the difficulty. Raid size is a large part of what difficulties are.

In my current game I'm 2.5 years in and I haven't even researched guns or armor. Weapons and stuff from raiders and quests work well enough and I can focus on other researches or just use the time to build, plant and craft. It's also part of the fun for me to equip my colonists with what the game provides and make the best out of it, instead of just crating the same perfect set for everyone.

[Greep]

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, if you make early research harder, I'm just going to research harder    Sure I could lower the difficulty, but the difficulty works out nicely after that initial hump and you have something the raiders don't have.

[Syrchalis]

And if you think raid sizes are too large

You're asking me to do it... you're ASKING ME TO DO IT.

Note, this wasn't on extreme (very hard).
Double Note, that isn't rich soil, that's just the shadow of the drop-pods.


~200 Scythers. Instant game over.

Might be related to the 5,5mio colony wealth

[Lanilor]

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, if you make early research harder, I'm just going to research harder

Nobody said you were complaining. That is a valid point and important when balancing the research. making something more expancive doesn't make it balanced. That's already too common in rimworld mods.
I think the costs are ok in general. Some minor researches could be a bit cheaper. Like I feel devilstrand isn't really worth researching anymore. I haven't tested it, but it works fine without. Also mortars are really weird since I usually get enough from sieges to not need to research mortars at all. Same with the TV researches. There will always be a quest, an ancient danger or a trader that has one megascreen TV, so when I could research the cheap TVs it isn't needed anymore.

I would like to see more complexity, but I think the focus of rimworld isn't that much on research to invest much in it. Like the research boost in Civ 6 was a nice idea but turned out too much micro grinding for objectives.

I'm currently at a point where I need many components and crafting them still takes a lot time. It maybe could be a bit faster, but not much.

You're asking me to do it... you're ASKING ME TO DO IT.

I have no idea how that is useful here but I guess you just wanted to show off. But well, that should be moderators problem ...

[Greep]

Blegh, trade requests can get a bit hardcore if they ask for raw materials.  I want that serum sooo much, but there's no way I'm getting that in year 1 xD



[attachment deleted due to age]

[Jstank]

Now that you introduced craftable chocolate, and considering that nobody ever makes lavish meals and nobody seems to be planting coa-ca trees atm, wouldn't it be a good idea to make it so that a lavish meal includes just one piece of chocolate and .25 veg and .25 meat! A dessert with the meal would make the colonists very happy and certainly lavish!
That would make it even worse to cook lavish meals. I think adding a small value of th food recreation type to lavish meals would be good.

I mean the idea with the dessert is quite nice, but needing chocolate makes it even harder to craft and even less worth atm. At any rate, it would be a pretty simple mod to replace the recipe. I'm sure someone will think of it!


Honestly, I don't think there is very much use for either chocolate or lavish meals right now. Lavish meals are too wasteful for the benefit and chocolate is barely worth keeping around. Combining them would make them both useful. I could be wrong, but I don't think many people go for lavish meals. They stick with fine meals because it costs twice as much. However, if all you have to do is mix a little chocolate into your meals to make them lavish, then it would be worth actually going for the lavish meals as a sustainable end-game meal choice, as it should be.

[Greep]

Lavish/chocolate can be useful if you want to make a separate freezer with a forbidden door just for mood crises.  Chocolate should really be considered a drug, though.  it's not but at least it would have a useful management in vanilla.

[Grimelord82]

I also like the idea of making chocolate part of a lavish meal. Or beer!
With hunting being the only meat source, even a well to do colony is hard to keep in Fine Meals. So yeah, I've never made Lavish except to check the buff. Reducing cost of a lavish meal would also make me consider it more. Maybe .8 total nutrition ingredients?

Normally, if a pawn is quite upset, it's from a stack of things like tired+hungry+psychic drone. Another +5 mood going from fine to lavish doesn't help if it means I have to make simple meals the next day.

[East]

It feels a little strange, Late game has changed easily. In the past, the Dropford attack was very difficult and happened very often. Now, however, only a few troops have begun to drop, and centipede is especially rare when managing property. I got the impression that the last space ship Turn on attack was easy. Of course, this also requires the opinions of others. In the past, centipede was very difficult and difficult. But they disappeared and the difficulty dropped a lot.

Speaking of scyther, they are weak. Of course, alone. They are stronger when combined with other Lancer and centipede. They assist each other well, When fitghting them, the approaching centipede emits a firepower. The EMP has to choose where to throw the enemies apart from the near(scyther) or far(lancer)

But scyther alone falls and falls. If they hit the EMP, they are even weaker and it is easy to get distance because of weapon stop power.

The Lancer sometimes thinks it is the right balance, except for the lucky head shot. (Brain destruction)
However, when it is a small number, it is very weak against melee attack. So the Lancer needs support from scyther.

So it is scary to come in combination with the mechanoid. Of course, centipede alone is strong against its tremendous HP.  Since the point nerf of the mechanoid, it is easy for mechanocides not to come in combination.

Also, power armor enemies feel very few. It was very difficult to wear a power armor enemy before. They are less than before.Maybe it's because of the addition of new armor. There is a place to consume the appropriate points, so the storyteller seems to send less power armor.

The Sniper Turret I personally would like to enjoy and test more, but I was impressed that it is very powerful now.

The speed of research I feel very fast. I had never thought that my research was slow as I was doing a rim world. If it is slow, just increase one more person. If the game is destroyed due to the lack of research, the tribal people can not play the game.  If you become accustomed to playing tribal people, Even if it is delayed a little, it does not matter much.

In Rim World, only time and researchers are needed. This is a very low condition. Research tables are also very cheap.  I think research is fast unless you need resources or special things to study like any other game.