Unstable build feedback thread

[5thHorseman]

While trying to recruit a prisoner, "Ian told an old story about rethinking his loyalties to Breila."

This sounds totally normal except Ian (in spite of her name) is female.

[jchavezriva]

This new stun time from EMP blasts on mechanoids is unnaceptably low.

How is a shot that takes 28 seconds of warmup + time it takes to get to its target, going to be of any help when its effects rougly 30 or maybe less seconds?

WIth these stun times, a fight with 70+ mechanoids will always be a colony wipe unless there are 6+ mortars with 100+ rounds.

[Greep]

Anyways, just screwing around at this point.  Apparently I managed to kill like 100 bugs in my living room so I just decided to go attack the hives before I quit.  For whatever reason the insect A.I. just completely broke and they're always fleeing.  Not really worth playing it out, but I found that funny

[attachment deleted due to age]

[Broken Reality]

Cass, rough, large hills, temp forest.

So far this patch I'm finding recruiting people far more frustrating. Half the time I forget to select recruit as you have to wait till the guilty has worn off to select what you want to do with them. This includes selecting execute and release. Also prisoners always have low mood and mine are in a nice room, table, proper beds etc, fed fine meals (because you can't stop your wardens feeding them your best food).

I've noticed a marked increase in one shots and limb loss seen several neck shots removing heads. My colonists are also often still hurt from the previous raid when the next one happens or a manhunter pack. Any damage taken now feels like a real setback, either the pawn sleeps to heal or you can have them work and be more likely to die next raid.

A bunch of little things are making combat less enjoyable and I am feeling pushed more and more towards killboxes and trap mazes. Not looking forwards to any drop pod meccanoid raids. Melee felt useful as a tool v mechs and these changes make it far less viable (even ignoring the spear change). Spart from holding a choke point against melee raids and manhunter packs melee feels kinda out of a job and slow kiting with a sniper rifle back to being the main viable anti-centipede tactic.

[Crow_T]

Mitigated charge lance to the liver is no fun at all, from an enemy that the game is allowed to spam in the dozens.

Charge lance has always been a weapon capable of one-shotting, that's what makes it scary. You have to be surgical and patient when dealing with them, any bit of recklessness can lead to a lot of punishment. Scythers are really weak vs traps, just get them near your traps and they'll be way easier to deal with.

Drop pods and their contents should take damage when landing on explosives, that seems fair.

I too miss the old prisoner UI, friendly chat was even sort of useful for building up some social before a release. IMO it even fits into the story aspect, showing empathy to your attackers. Rimworld is a game of moral decisions, I think the chat works in that regard.

[bbqftw]

The amount of charge lance one shot kill scenarios was increased about 2-3x against normally armored opponents, and about 5-6x against highly armored (high quality power armor / helmet opponents) relative to 1.0.1967

Also, if you're going to passive aggressive call people bad you should at least have courtesy to make sure you are better than them.

[Crow_T]

The amount of charge lance one shot scenarios was increased about 2-3x against normally armored opponents, and about 5-6x against highly armored (high quality power armor / helmet opponents)

Yes, numbers matter.

Not being snarky- can I see those numbers?

[fritzgryphon]

Wall your pawns in with food and wait until it gets better.

[seerdecker]

I'm also having difficulties recruiting prisoners. I don't mind the resistance system. It's sensible and it makes the game harder.

However, I currently have a prisoner with mood 59, my recruiter is healthy and has social skill 8, the recruiting difficulty is 84, and I only get a 0.73% chance to recruit. It seems like the recruiting difficulty, mood and social skill now have little effect. You don't get much better than the baseline chance 0.5%.

I'm playing on Cassandra extreme.

[Sirsir]

Okay I didn't know this could happen, there should be SOME restrictions on when they are allowed to break. Like not literally the hour they land. Thats just silly... forced breaks should wait at least a week

[Greep]

Getting a heart attack 1 hour in is funnier

[bbqftw]

The amount of charge lance one shot scenarios was increased about 2-3x against normally armored opponents, and about 5-6x against highly armored (high quality power armor / helmet opponents)

Yes, numbers matter.

Not being snarky- can I see those numbers?

ok main changes to vitals in recent patch version

Neck 30->20 - not very important for charge lance numbers since infamous neck shot still instant kill even if one hit protected.
Head 30(?)->25
Heart 20->15
Liver 20->15

the last two are the big ones, since they drop armor-mitigated charge lance shots to lethal range.

Typical charge lance instant kill scenarios in 1.0.1967 - brain shot (any), neck shot (unmitigated), unmitigated stomach, liver, heart

Typical charge lance instant kill scenarios in 1.01969 - brain shot (any), neck shot (unmitigated), ANY stomach, liver, heart shot, head shot (there used to be a one-hit protection on head, but it appears gone now - it used to be that overkill on head took it down to 1/30). Liver hit chance also appeared to jump from 1.5->2.5, though not sure if that happened in 1.0.1968.

So for regular armored scenario, you are looking at maybe flak vest (lets pick excellent vest at ~120%) / plast helmet (sharps ~100, I am super lazy with math). As sad as it is, dusters and jackets are practically useless since they all fall under the charge lance's armor penetration unless you're using amazing materials like thrumbofur for the duster and have amazing quality.

You can use debug mode to see the chance of hitting a part, and armor formula you should be familiar with if you are going to teach people how to play, so I assume you know it. Clance arpen is 48%.

In such situation, brain shot about ~0.4%, neck about 2.2%, but flak vest will mitigate or deflect most vital shots, which is sufficient to avoid one hit kills (however, some unmitigated shots slip through since charge lance arpen is just that high, so about 2%~ for this range of possibility)

Now its brain 0.4%, neck 2.2%, unmitigated head shot 0.9%, but now that mitigated liver and heart also kills, AND the liver is larger you're looking at closer to 5% contribution from the torso vitals since now only a deflection will save you.

So about 4.6% -> 8.5% chance for instant kill against respectable midgame armor. So I guess closer to 2x.

The higher armor values, the worse it gets in terms of lethality increase. With legendary power armor (200 sharps), and legendary power helmet (~194 sharps), basically only a brain shot could kill you (about 0.2% chance of happening overall) since mitigation was effectively guaranteed. Now a brain shot and mitigated liver and heart shot also kills, at about 0.2 + 1.25% possibility overall (5% hitting these organs, 25% to not deflect)

For a more reasonable power armor scenario in lategame, try good power armor - 128 sharps / good power helmet - 118 sharps

Pre patch, brain is 0.54% here, unmitigated neck 0.4%, unmitigated heart, stomach, liver 1.25%~.
Post patch, brain is 0.54%, unmitigated neck 0.4%, unmitigated head .5%, any heart / liver shot 4%, stomach 0.4%.

2.25 -> 5.8, so about 2.5x more lethal shots for reasonable lategame armor.

[Tynan]

Recruitment chances are broken, it will be fixed.

Also a general note - rule 2 on this forum may be worth reviewing for some participants. You're welcome to give feedback that you don't like something (in fact, I very much need to know this information) but this is not a place for anger venting or resentment venting. It really makes the whole discussion unpleasant. Just say what happened and give your thoughts on what should have happened instead. We're here to improve the game, not to commiserate and rage and vent.

Also a lot of this stuff is experimental, things can be broken, and so on.

[seerdecker]

Save the panther!

The poor panther is dying to the animals it preys on. It happens fairly systematically. I'm playing in a jungle biome (not swamp).

[Kalre]

The faction spawn system should be left randomized as it was before, having 1 outlander, 1 pirate and 1 tribals as a default its a huge difficulty multiplier for tribal runs, even with fixed recruit %.