Unstable build feedback thread

[Greep]

Bah, animal just ate luciferium.  I thought that was not supposed to happen anymore, or did people just say they hate that and nothing changed? 

[Dargaron]

So, Darg's Dregs are plodding along: it's now year 5505, and tech is zooming along now that our resident Depressive Cannibal Misandrist is at Research 19. Going to fulfill my first trade request in the form of 4 Bolt-Action Rifles for 17 Luciferium (read: extra silver).

Some things I've noticed:
-The time to don armor means that there's virtually no reason to ever walk around in civilian clothing. In the time it takes to go through a couple doors and don an Advanced Helmet, Flak Vest and Flak Pants, the enemy has managed to cross about half of a large map. You'd think that armor would be something only worn occasionally, but with the current donning times, that's basically impossible.

-The nerf to door health is killer. My Granite doors are less than half as sturdy as the walls around them, despite costing five times as much material and imposing severe movement restrictions on pawns going through them.

-Raider retreat pathing is kind of weird. I've had pirates try to flee through my base, even when they're outside my perimeter wall.

[Eldarin1]

Two Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.

Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.

For the record it was a crash-landed start, default settings on Cassandra medium. of my 4 pawns, 1 was non-violent. I had a rifle, a pistol, and a knife. It was day 11, so all gear was default as well. Jet the Officer had the rifle and the armor. The scene was a goodie quest, so the scythers were asleep on arrival.

I tried several save scums to win the day, and nothing worked. The scythers were both melee and very fast. No amount of kiting could overcome their speed advantage, and no amount of damage ever downed even 1 scyther before all 4 pwns died. in the end i continued my run without the quest, as I'm trying to give a noob perspective of 1.0

[ZE]

Soaking Wet is a strange debuff...

lemme gather my thoughts....

i posted this before

"shallow water - wet
chest-deep water - soaked
deep water - drenched

drenched - lowers personal temp by 10 fades to ;
soaked - lowers personal temp by 6, fades to ;
wet - lowers personal temp by 4

shade also lowers personal temp by 6
and wind multiplies these by up to 200%, so a pawn can seek cooler temp in shade and in water, and the breeze too can lower your temp, so extreme desert survival can be possible but also ice sheet survival can be even harder"

perhaps what we need is a wetness counter, getting a little wet in the rain can turn to soaked and drenched over an hour in addition to what i said regarding the water depths, counter decreases over time depending on heat, a drenched colonist in 30c can dry in an hour, a drenched colonist in 0c will stay wet and die of hypothermia.

naturally wetness temp is like -10 / wetcount * windspeed

light > 50% increases drying speed, as well as temp

mood debuff should only count for clothed people, or cold people, nekked people in the sunshine love water, save for those with traits that tell them they dont like water, they should love it.  you can even include a trait for weirdos who love soggy underwear perhaps on a spectrum. 

soggy undie lovers
normal
aquaphobes

+++

swimming as a stat and a trait to match

fishlike - 100% ignores water speed reduction
olympic swimmer - 50% ignore
normal
sinker - 50% increased water reduction

oh maybe muddy should be a thing from soaked + walking through dirt and/or mud

also maybe quicksand, u dont want your pawns standing in that
on the same thought, tarpits...... u def dont wanna stand in that

...... falling asleep......... goodnight

[Call me Arty]

...... falling asleep......... goodnight

Goodnight, sweet prince. Your ideas are neat, though perhaps too complicated and niche to earn priority over what's currently being developed.

[Cocco81]

So here's s my experience (just registered to post this).

NOTE: I was used to having quite some mods, but for my playthrough that should be irrelevant.

Phoebe chillax, base builder.
Crashlanded on a temperate forest coast, because I like having one side less to care about. Probably the most defensible layout ever, since I had a sort of smile-like mountain enclosing a beach and some fertile soil, except the sides and a front canyon.

I claim a neraby structure, fill the holes and add a door, here's my stock warehouse.
I start building my settlement and sowing the seeds of love, ehm rice.
By the time summer turns in, I already had a manhunter raccoon (easily dispatched) and a lone attacker (captured, 99% recruiting difficulty).
I still have no fridge as my initial 3 pawns have too low construction skill, so no power for me.
I decide to try and tame an alpaca, just in case I need wool. Second attempt fails badly and the alpaca and friends turn mnhunter. The tamer has a knife but goes down almost immediately.
Rifleman (fully armored) and gunman join the fight, they go down as well.

Ragequit.

Probably I could have included at least one good fighter in the original pawns, but still losing a colony to enraged alpacas felt so sad, considering how in my last b18 I was having a full military dept armed to the teeth

[bbqftw]

Two Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.

Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.

Scythers die fast. I have had a starting melee pawn one shot a scyther with the starting jade knife. As a starting tribal colony I have taken out an AD with 5 scyther variants with 3 clubs and 2 bows. Mechanoids suck vs melee specifically blunt. The only ones that are scary at all are the melee ones and they still die fast (this is on close range fighting, long range lancers are nasty unless you line of sight them, which you should be doing). Crack an AD and you can normally equip your melee pawns with power armour or at least flak. Tribal you have 5 people you can send v 2 scythers, crashlanded you even get a set of armour to protect your melee pawn to start off with.

What specific constructions do you want? Are you talking about tactics? Things I build? Skills and equipment? From your post it sounds like you are not using terrain to your advantage possibly. (to crack AD I don't build any walls/doors or traps, just use positioning and the chokepoint that is the hole I just made in the wall)

My latest run on the last patch I did a tribal start, 3 melee pawns and 2 ranged, cracked the AD and killed the scythers/lancers, healed up and then popped the 6 caskets and got 3 sets of power armour and 3 full sets of flak (pants, jackets and chest) and 3 chain shotguns (at some point in these two fights one of my pawns lost a leg lucky there was an archeotech leg in there for me). Set up nicely for the rest of the run. Tunneled in to the mountain through the AD (which is now my new base, lots of free space) and found a second AD while mining for rooms.

You said you had 4 pawns. Even if one cannot fight they can be bait / kite the enemies to give you flanking or advantageous shots. Unless you pick pawns with no combat skills at all it should be doable. Worth risking a caravan for? Possibly. Don't forget you have quite some time before the mission expires (had 20 day + timers IIRC on missions like that). Use that time to prepare armour and weapons (hope for more pawns to join as well).

I wouldn't crack an AD as crashlanded early personally as you already have decent weapons ( and now armour) but as a tribal start it is well worth it as you won't get gear that good for a long time and you have the manpower to handle it.

out of curiosity, I tried your 2 bows / 3 club setup with decent tribal pawns (6-12 in melee, with one 11 shooter) vs solo scyther - notes are documented on damage to my pawns, as well as relevant factors in the fight. Since you mention day 2-3, I assume you use wooden clubs. Bows typically got one~ shot on approach, afterwards they are positioned at close range to avoid friendly fire.

significant damage
no damage - first club brain destroyed
no damage - early stun
one hit
4 hits, one downed - almost guaranteed death if neck infection reaches extreme
1 hit
3+ hits, 1 downed - ear lost
no damage - first hit stun
no damage
3+ hits

so overall, it can work, but it might not. Surprisingly no amputations, though scyther at ~17-19 damage hits just needs to hit the limb twice to cause this.

5v2 scyther with optimized focus firing (4v1 one scyther while melee screening the other) results in following:

2 downs, one would die to a torso infection almost certainly
1 down with lots of damage taken on the other two meleers

In any case, enough damage for me to tell that 5v2 is not typically advisable, unless I am doing something quite different from you. Of course, the equation changes if you are able to strip some power armor before you start fighting mechs, but that's hardly going to be the probable scenario when cracking ADs.

[Tynan]

New build. No huge changes. Still processing a lot of feedback.

---

Fix: neurotrainers use wrong label for FloatMenu option.
Fix 3484: Major food poisoning doesn't actually affect eating capacity
Fix 3480: 'ProgressToNextPortion' on deep drill's inspection panel is untranslated
Pawns can now use bedrolls while caravaning.
Darkness debuff now longer applies to night owls.
Site letters now mention how many turrets there are.
Site letters now mention how many sleeping mechanoids there are.
Site letters now mention how many manhunting animals there are.
Mini-turret range 22.9 -> 24.9.
Fix: Autocannon turret radius mismatch with placing display radius.
Adjusted training decay rate a bit; slightly harder for low-wildness animals and slightly easier for high-wildness animals.
Adjusted nutrition of grass.
Reduce disease incidence overall ~10%.
Death on downed chance for non colony humans now relates to population intent.
Letter close button text "dismiss" -> "close" for clarity in case of quests. e.g. it's not "dismissing" the quest.
Watermill generator 1200W -> 1100W.
Fix: Assault rifle description mentions three-round bursts.
Fix: Kick dirt in eyes freezes pawn in place for 15 seconds.
Wimp effect is a bit softer.
Fix: Mismatch between the reported reason for a social fight and the social log text of the interaction leading to the social fight.
Fix: Food poisoning cause is almost always unknown.
Increase explosive radius of EMP and firefoam artillery.
Standardize plant immature graphic paths. Change raspberry bush to berry bush and made it blue (for color-blind visibility).
Adjusted mature cocoa tree graphic so it doesn't look like it's blighted. Cocoa trees now have an immature graphic.
Impacting drop pods now awaken animals.
Reduces size of hilliness overlay images (512->128).
Tending with tend time left now extends the old time instead of replacing it. Refactored how tending time is managed a bit.
Text: Failed -> Botched

[Madman666]

Cool changes. Finally colonists learned to scout! Yay.
Night owls no longer scared of nighttime lack of light. Another solid yay.
Less diseases is always a good change. Finally.

Please explain a bit more about this one:
- Death on downed chance for non colony humans now relates to population intent.

Does that mean raider death chance scales with the amount of people you have or with how close you are to your storyteller's population limit. On Randy you can have a lot of people, up to 50 correct?

And i d also like to know how much it actually does scale. Whats the chance for a raider to survive when you're at 13 colonists on Cassie? Since it does affect diplomacy part of the game.

[zymex]

hi tynan, glad to finally see 1.0, looking foward to play it when fully released.

any chance temperature overlay will be implemented to main game? i always missed that feature, in game

[Tynan]

Damn, that door change is just atrocious, 140 hp on steel door is bad enough, but wood ones are just a decoration. 56 hp on a door. Like seriously. A bush (!) has twice as much hp. I am quite tempted to just wall myself in completely and only dig out a way outside when i need it.

I appreciate feedback, but just calling something "atrocious" is dragging down the constructive atmosphere here. There's no design content to this post. It's pure complaint and pure theorycrafting. Don't do this please.

Write about an experience you had, or some logical thoughts about why the design makes the game better or worse or how it could be changed, please. Simply having to change strategy doesn't mean the game is worse. Are the new strategies more or less interesting/cheesy/varied? Etc.

Above all, speak of experiences not theories. Reactions to changelists are not useful; experiences and thoughts based on experiences are.

And btw door HP relates to building material so if you want stronger ones use steel or plasteel.

[robno]

Hi, I have a quality of life suggestion. I've been playing tribal and I put down a game of Ur board, but for ages nobody used it and I didn't realise it needed chairs next to it (don't think this requirement is listed anywhere in game). I suggest showing faded chair outlines (like for the workstations) either side of the board, where the players would actually sit. I looked up the game of Ur and players should sit perpendicular to the length of the board, on either side.

[Madman666]

I appreciate feedback, but just calling something "atrocious" is dragging down the constructive atmosphere here. There's no design content to this post. It's pure complaint and pure theorycrafting. Don't do this please.

Write about an experience you had, or some logical thoughts about why the design makes the game better or worse or how it could be changed, please. Simply having to change strategy doesn't mean the game is worse. Are the new strategies more or less interesting/cheesy/varied? Etc.

Above all, speak of experiences not theories. Reactions to changelists are not useful; experiences and thoughts based on experiences are.

And btw door HP relates to building material so if you want stronger ones use steel or plasteel.

Yep, i admit, this is more of a complaint and I guess this is theorycrafting, since this exact comment is based on my previous experience not current one. Doors always were weakest link in player's structures. Either they are too weak (wood, steel) or they are too slow (stone). Now they are twice as weak. So i'll have to either use stone doors for houses, construct double\triple doors, which is kind of silly, or i ll have to rush plasteel, to use it for doors, so that it won't fly away from couple deer kicks, which is wasteful and aren't really viable early to mid game.

Sorry for not offering anything more deep. I am starting a new run, so next time, i ll properly tell a story, about how weak doors lead to mahunters eating my face off and offer some thoughs of why doors shouldn't be so weak.

[Tynan]

I have purchased Rimworld for many, have encouraged the game.  I have been silent in the forums forever but as this is your final product and desire you to succeed I now write.  Please forgive me for my candor.

Hey I appreciate all the feedback! From you and everyone else who takes the time.

[East]

It was updated and I enjoyed the game for a while.
The door was very weak. In the early game, when the pirates started attacking the door, they were instantly destroyed.
Even animal door attacks are threatening.

The enemy's reaction is really fast.
And the move locking in reloadtime was lengthened, which made control difficult.
Because it is possible to cancel the attack during the warm-up time, but it can not be canceled at the reload time and can not respond quickly to changes in the situation (for example, if the enemy approaches).
If you were trying to help a ranged weapon against melee, the result was totally the opposite. melee will avoid shooting at long distances and easily catch distances that do not move long reload time.

Personally, it is fun to have some balance between warm up and reload.

In early games, wooden doors(56HP) are an inevitable choice.
The entrance is not the only one, and a lot of iron needs to be consumed in order to build many entrances with steel.
In a late game, even the pre-patch killzon's plasteel door does not guarantee safety.
In my last fight video I see the doors and stone walls destroyed. This is based on my experience, not my simple theory or complaint.
Both the experience before the door patch and the experience after the door patch have been considered.

Manhunter packs often attack specific doors during initial entry.

Even the steel doors before the door patch were easily destroyed in the Manhunter pack. The health of the door patch is really low.

This video is the manhunter pack before the patch when the door was 250. In this video you will think again about weakening the door. Look until the ostrich is all caught.
https://youtu.be/Isi0s_yed0k?t=4h11m59s

It's not just the Manhunter Pack. The door to most raids is a weakness. As battle gets longer, it will inevitably depend on the durability of walls and doors.

For reference, I think i'm a very hardcore player. For starters, this door patch will be too difficult. I am also difficult.