2% chance of muffalo revenge? Really?

[cultist]

I'd like to see a more complex response to hunting from different animal types. It makes sense that a herd of large powerful herbivores like elepthants or muffalo might attack you as a group if they feel threatened, but I don't like that there's always a chance of this response from any group of animals. It's especially silly with smaller prey animals like capybaras. Not all flock animals are equal, so some should be more equal than others or something...

[Zombull]

It's getting to the point where I'll just draft half a dozen colonists and micro the hunting trips. Multiple hunters firing at one critter is reasonably safe unless the whole herd goes manhunter. And in that event, at least my attention is already there and I can handle it.

[Injured Muffalo]

As an injured muffalo, I can tell you that I don't feel an angry vengeance when I am being hunted. It's more of a solemn moral outrage.

Anyway, it sucks to be attacked by prey, but I can see a bull charging at you occasionally.

I'm more concerned with the idea of the whole herd becoming enraged than occasional aggressive individuals.

[Zombull]

My complaint isn't that some animals are dangerous to hunt. It's that 2% does not seem at all accurate. I don't know how the game uses that 2% but it clearly isn't a straight up 2% chance that the animal will go for revenge.

[Ilya]

My complaint isn't that some animals are dangerous to hunt. It's that 2% does not seem at all accurate. I don't know how the game uses that 2% but it clearly isn't a straight up 2% chance that the animal will go for revenge.

I assumed that it meant 2% chance per shot (even missed ones), and with how inaccurate pawns are, this can quickly add up.

I think we can all agree that hunting has been too profitable for too long, but I don't think that increasing the chance of revenge is the right thing to do to balance it. I think that the issue is that animals who are hunted are stuck on the map. They can't flee outside, and even when they do flee inside the map, they don't run very far. This means that the chance of successfully hunting an animal is near 100%. Giving them a chance to actually evade your hunters would increase the value of hunting.

[Ambaire]

Maybe one day using automatic hunting won't be a false choice.

Until that day we're stuck with draft hunting to be safe.

Complete agreement. Also, lol at that mod warning. Completely senseless.

[bbqftw]

Maybe one day using automatic hunting won't be a false choice.

Until that day we're stuck with draft hunting to be safe.

User was warned for this post: There are so many better, more neutral ways to express this (perfectly valid) idea without infusing your message with resentment or a sense of victimhood. Rule 2 specifically prohibits this style of expression.

to be fair,  in what aspect of the game are you not punished massively by not micromanaging? Too many to count, really. I don't think that's a particularly fixable problem though.

Lest some feel I am exaggerating:

You can't cook efficiently without convoluted stockpile / manually set hauling priorities. Even then, without hysteresis mod, a hauling /cook duo will left to their own devices will result in a horrifying loop of the hauler hauling 5x food units at a time, requiring serious manual intervention...

You must watch pawns like a hawk while they do their hauling jobs to construction sites as they love hauling blatantly incorrect amounts of materials, doubling or tripling hauls required. This is even if you correctly prioritize chunk hauling and tree cutting on construction targets..

If you aren't switching up joy schedules manually or forcing pawns to reset their intended joy activities you are losing multiple in game hours because your miner decided to walk half the map to play horseshoes.

[5thHorseman]

You can't cook efficiently without convoluted stockpile / manually set hauling priorities. Even then, without hysteresis mod, a hauling /cook duo will left to their own devices will result in a horrifying loop of the hauler hauling 5x food units at a time, requiring serious manual intervention...

I put my cook in the freezer. The slowdown due to cold is less than due to hauling stuff, and all micromanagement goes away. He hauls his own stuff but it's all super nearby, and then the haulers can haul actual items.

If you aren't switching up joy schedules manually or forcing pawns to reset their intended joy activities you are losing multiple in game hours because your miner decided to walk half the map to play horseshoes.

I set my schedules to joy on wake and before bed, and then work all day, and never see a problem. Miners may come back early to joy or whatever but not 3 hours into the day. Maybe I'm not microing enough to even notice it. I also have never noticed the hauling problem.

[zizard]

Allow Tool mod has a convenient drafted hunting mode where the colonist will shoot at any designated animals in range while letting you decide his position.

[TheMeInTeam]

Maybe one day using automatic hunting won't be a false choice.

Until that day we're stuck with draft hunting to be safe.

User was warned for this post: There are so many better, more neutral ways to express this (perfectly valid) idea without infusing your message with resentment or a sense of victimhood. Rule 2 specifically prohibits this style of expression.

to be fair,  in what aspect of the game are you not punished massively by not micromanaging? Too many to count, really. I don't think that's a particularly fixable problem though.

Lest some feel I am exaggerating:

You can't cook efficiently without convoluted stockpile / manually set hauling priorities. Even then, without hysteresis mod, a hauling /cook duo will left to their own devices will result in a horrifying loop of the hauler hauling 5x food units at a time, requiring serious manual intervention...

You must watch pawns like a hawk while they do their hauling jobs to construction sites as they love hauling blatantly incorrect amounts of materials, doubling or tripling hauls required. This is even if you correctly prioritize chunk hauling and tree cutting on construction targets..

If you aren't switching up joy schedules manually or forcing pawns to reset their intended joy activities you are losing multiple in game hours because your miner decided to walk half the map to play horseshoes.

There are two ways this particular interaction differs from typical non-micro punishment:

1. Scale of punishment between "less stuff getting done" and "pawn is killed".  How much different depends on which inefficiency is in question.
2. This particular mechanic is a noob trap per most interpretations of the concept.  It is risk asymmetric with reality in a way unique amongst work tasks, is the only task that typically carries a risk of game over if unprepared, and the game's presentation does not align with threat level (on many difficulties, an aggro herd is more dangerous than any year 1 raid).

For hunting, inefficient micromanagement is a penalty *additional* to existential threat (to pawn or if unprepared to the colony).  Draft hunting removes just about all of this risk.

It's true that Rimworld is inconsistent with its representation of utility and reward for micromanagement over simulation-level choices.  However, when the utility of an automated mechanic veers into false choice territory, the reason for including the automated mechanic in its present form is in question.  Hunting isn't as egregious as the battle planner in HOI 4 or something (it would take banning draft hunting somehow to accomplish that), but this topic and a reaction like OP's isn't new or uncommon.

[mndfreeze]

You are supposed to be afraid of hunting these animals. It's a risk. You get food/leather for little effort, and you pay with risk.

There are also no-revenge animals, farming, foraging, trading for food, etc.

My issue really lies with how often its occuring.  For a listed 2% chance at rifle range it sure seems to happen far far far to often.  If I'm using a survival rifle it should be 1 in 50 hunts that are revenging, but I'm getting far higher than that.  The hunting revenge chance always felt fine before and while yes some specific creatures needed it to be fixed like the megasloth it didn't need to be blanket hit across the entire animal spectrum IMO.

Maybe the math is goofy on the back end. I can't say for sure as I don't dig into issues that much, only adding in my experience that lines up with others here that it seems off. 

[bbqftw]

I assume it meant 2% per shot, so unless you are getting heart and brain shots every time it might be confirmation bias.

[mndfreeze]

I assume it meant 2% per shot, so unless you are getting heart and brain shots every time it might be confirmation bias.

Yeah I assume the same thing but even still, the rate its occuring to me seems far higher.  I lost 2 new colonies (not colonists) back to back, to Ibex's.  If the rate was 2% per creature hunted, not per shot, that wouldn't be as bad as it feels now, but 1% for most prey/herd animals seems a lot more fair. 

Basically it turned new game core survival into something too risky.  If this was the kind of thing that modified the mid or later game it wouldn't be as big of an issue since by then you usually have multiple ways to figure out a problem and deal with it without losing your colony,  but for a fresh game you are very limited in your options.  I personally don't find a bad RNG dice roll at the very start of a game enjoyable as my game ending story, especially when the numbers popping up make it seem small but it somehow happens so often.  It reminds me very much of when infections were so ugly and I'd spend an hour worth of time just restarting game after game of a naked or tribe start because I'd get an infection at such an early point it was impossible to deal with.

For creatures that have major benefits like bears or megasloth because of their hide it makes sense that there is higher risk.  IMO I would be fine with the numbers for all the leather/fur bearing creatures that have higher quality hides, but for all the animals that just give plainleather the numbers should be smaller / attacks less frequent. 

There needs to be a balance in the game that appeals to both the new player and the seasoned vet and starting out a new game with punishing numbers will discourage people I feel. 

[MajorFordson]

I had a Tribal game today where hunting was my only food option until the farms started producing... and my game ended after 30 minutes because the Elk went on a murderous rampage and killed everyone.

Herd animals going bezerk and killing the hunter would be a geat compromise, as currently a herd of animals that in reality would feed a human settlement can turn sentiently evil and murder their way through your entire settlement.

A hunter getting gored to death or near-death when hunting large herbivors is a good story, a herd of animals ending your game by becoming human seeking missiles is not.

Also - Is the emu "high aggro" thing real? If it is, Tynan allow me to say as an Australian who lives on a farm - Emus have two abilities. One is to run directly away from anything that remotely offends them, the other is to get through fences by falling over them. This concludes the list of an emus abilities, please note it doesn't not include them being aggressive badasses in any way. Cassowaries are more dangerous by far, and mostly because they live in the jungle where you can surprise in the undergrowth them and force them to defend themselves.

[Zombull]

This would also "feel" better imo if the animals attacked the hunter then either went back to grazing or fled the map. The animals downing the hunter then charging for the colony feels unnatural and annoying. Especially when it's the whole herd.