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Author Topic: [MOD] (Alpha 7) Machine Gun Nests  (Read 70312 times)

Girlinhat

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 08:27:53 PM »

That said at this rate why not make this mod mount all the guns and increase their accuracy if you do :3.
A4 had a mod for gun mounts, it would generate an empty mount and then you could mount any vanilla gun, creating a new turret in its place that had that gun template.

I'd LOVE to see that mod, but having to man the guns and they don't explode.
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Psyckosama

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2014, 08:32:18 PM »

Anyone get a real chance to use this mod yet? If so, how did it work out for you and what balance suggestions would you make?
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EBM

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2014, 08:52:29 PM »

I don't find them particularly enticing at present. Too much risk to the gunner for little gain. I'd rather just build an Improvised Turret so the gunner can fire his/her own weapon and move around.

Perhaps they could receive improvements through research, as the turret does?
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Zagrom

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2014, 09:09:45 PM »

I used it the other day. Honestly I dont see the logical reason for it to explode, its just supposed to be a mounted gun, guns dont blow up. I like it but the turret seems like a better option just cause its cheaper, and it blows up the same amount. The benefits are that non-violent users can use it, it doesnt need power and if you don't have a gun for everyone it allows them to do something. All helpful, but seems not worth it considering its likely going to blow up and leave holes in your defenses.

I say it needs some research stuff to make it a bit more worth the effort. One that reduces or removes its blowing up, and one that reduces the cost.

Also would be cool to see a sandbag variant, basically a gun that will form with the sandbags.
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AstronauticalFerret

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2014, 09:15:56 PM »

I've been testing this mod out in dev mode and throwing raiders at my little colonials.

First off I'd like to say good job! I love turrets though a couple of issues.

The turret in my own opinion seems just a little too accurate at medium to long range. A fixed weapon, while seeming like it would be accurate, is not used in an accurate way, machine guns also are not iron sighted in for direct accuracy, they are support fore weapons. The short range is fine for most types. A 50 cal sniper rifle would of course be far more accurate at medium to long range if it was scoped, sighted in, and was an actual sniper rifle put up on a sniper rifle's pod stand/rest. Normal everyday turrets like the  Browning Machine Gun which is also 50.cal, the M249SAW(5.56) and M240Bravo(7.62) are all going to suck at longer ranges due to the way they are operated and used.  Granted a skilled turret gunner can tag a target at long range by using techniques like "Walking it up" with 3 to 5 round bursts  4 to 5 seconds or 4-8 round bursts  with a M249, so take that into consideration if you plan to make different turret types with modifiers which could also use different modes, example

Pawn1 > Go mount turret > (Selects either "Take Precise Controlled Shots" or "Send in the Rain") which I hope are both self explanatory.

When firing it like a sniper rifle you'll increase accuracy significantly. If you use it for support you wont be hitting much unless you're a veteran turret operator or if the enemy is in close range. My pawns are able to hold their own. I tested this out with 21 raiders vs three random pawns put on one turret each.  three raiders got put down (Note I got them using Evul's dummy gun which is 1dmg per hit, If they had actual normal guns we would have been ghosted.) and that is with two colonists alive both at critical help, the raiders apparently hated the guy on the left the most.

That was scenario one. Scenario two:

Popped off the Dummygun for raiders and let them spawn in masse of 21 with normal weapons vs 3 turret operated  colonials. No raiders tagged, all colonials dead in under 30 seconds real time.

A minor fix here would be to up the damage output. A mounted turret is any assaulting force's worst nightmare as even a 5.56 firing SAW can rip through a human body with relative easy even in the hands of a total gun noob. The ability to guard against a mass force should be far more deadly than what it is. Just my own opinion for the mod.

Oh and the last thing, the colonists for some weird reason operate the turret from the front? As in they are standing in front of the barrel  as it fires, it does no damage to the operator, but is jsut a visual *Wut* type of thing xD

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BetaSpectre

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2014, 09:39:51 PM »

Lol the turret is 360 just don't set it up like that.

Make it so raiders target the gun first, and maybe have a repair man beside the gunner. Make me feel like he's reloading the gun xD.
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Girlinhat

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2014, 10:08:50 PM »

A mount would aid the long-range accuracy of a machinegun.  Guns are accurate devices, the problem is human error.  With sniper rifles, the error is that the user can't achieve a tight angle of fire because the human hand tends to shake slightly.  Mounting a sniper gets you a more accurate shot.  With a machinegun, the biggest problem is recoil.  The impact of the bullet leaving the barrel jars the weapon and the second bullet is less accurate.  Mounting a machinegun reduces the recoil, which improves the cluster of the burst.
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anarky321

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2014, 03:49:30 PM »

1) increase rate of fire - it fires way too slow as it is now
2) increase bullet travel speed - they fly unrealistically slow
3) there is no reason it should explode, in fact i modded it not to myself
4) up the hitpoints to 500 - its a metal gun on a metal base, the operator should be dead far before the gun itself is destroyed

i wish there was some way to implement limited ammunition into the game, it would make the whole setup much more realistic if you had to have an assistant run for ammo belts to the stockpile

a cool example of what im talking about is the game Soldiers: Heroes of WW2, where the machine gun nests run out of ammo and realistically mow down anyone stupid enough to get within range
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 03:51:11 PM by anarky321 »
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lazerlogic

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2014, 06:12:32 PM »

Uhm it shoots aburst of 5 bullets with very litle spread  and do serious damaged .
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anarky321

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2014, 10:32:08 PM »

i did some mods on the weapons_guns def file , upped the bullet travel speed, the cooldown time between bursts and upped the amount of bullets fired in a burst by 30%, also halved the time between each bullet fired in a burst......the results are very impressive imo and much closer to what a heavy machine gun would be like...i can upload the 2 files if someone wants them?

i also took out the explosive effect of the improvised turret and the machine gun nests so they just disintegrate when destroyed and your men can fall back instead of being instantly annihilated

also made the rest of the weapons fire more realistically (imo) by changing bullet speeds and cooldown times, making combat much more deadly and tribals assaulting machine gun nests head on with bows just suicidal
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 10:49:56 PM by anarky321 »
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Zagrom

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2014, 10:56:44 PM »

Its not just about making it realistic, its about balance. With those modifications it seems like it would be massively overpowered. If it works for you that's great, but I'm pretty sure those modifications should not be applied to the primary mod, at least not without having some kind of research to upgrade them to behave like that. I do thing the exploding is a bit much though, as I have previously mentioned.
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anarky321

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2014, 01:44:46 AM »

i think simple balancing fixes would be sniper rifles, fixed sector of fire for the machine gun that can be flanked, and grenades that can be lobbed over obstacles (should've been done from the start), i think in the end it would be much more immersive and you shouldn't need more than one person on a heavy machine gun and maybe 1 with an m16 for support and one medic/repairer, also positions like prone and crouch behind obstacles that would protect AI from getting shot up with the machine gun

obviously keeping in mind the game is still in alpha stage many of those things may or may not still be included but most certainly will be modded in somehow regardless
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Zagrom

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2014, 02:20:49 AM »

Well, you would need more then a 3 man army to ward off 20-40 raiders, and this is never going to be an ARMA simulation game. But I understand what you mean. You can only balance a game verses its core gameplay, if your trying to balance it to be realistic then you have a realistic gun and an unbalanced game. But once this game gets in beta stages there will be all sorts of rebalancing mods I'm sure.

And Im not against realistic gameplay and making games harder on a survival level or anything like that, I just think your trying to overbalance it, however if you for example made the gun better via research or something which makes it more expensive and time consuming then having a high-powered gun in the mid to late game makes sense and makes it more valued to position a guy on a mounted gun the a turret. Just my perspective.
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Zagrom

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2014, 12:34:53 AM »

I made a sprite for this is your interested



If it needs edits it can be done.
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BetaSpectre

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Re: [Mod] (Alpha 5) Machine Gun Nests
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2014, 12:42:13 AM »

If it doesn't explode then I think it'd be pretty rad, also it should take up only one square if you ask me, but well code is code.
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