How RimWorld has lost depth/immersion and became bland and simple

Started by Yoshida Keiji, February 08, 2019, 09:15:12 AM

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Limdood

Quote from: LWM on February 27, 2019, 01:25:59 PM
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=48120

Lo.

Yep.  Some people get so butthurt about how other people play that they have to complain about things that improve the game for those people even when they themselves have the option to turn a given setting off.

It's even funnier, because its a game meant for pure single player, so they can't even claim unfairness that other people can do things easier than they can.  It's like they need to complain about features that make a game more convenient or easier just so they can rehash how amazing they are that they don't need it, and how all of us plebs are pure trash.

Bozobub

ONCE AGAIN:

Consistent UIX is not a freaking flaw in a game.  Period.  In fact, it's considered a selling point for any game, when it has a good, consistent user interface.

Yes, you CAN argue (*cough* and easily set for yourself) the parameters used to trigger a given alert, if you don't think the current settings are appropriate.  No you CANNOT, however, argue that having the alerts, themselves, is inconsistent with the game design, common sense, or logic. 

Get a grip.  Lose the drama.
Thanks, belgord!

LWM

Seriously, tho.

OP:  You're clearly passionate about this.  You're clearly articulate and can lay out your thoughts.  Why not work on a mod or two to support your view of the game?

You'd have to learn some C# (if you don't already know it), but that's not insurmountable.  There are some mods out there you could look at to give yourself a starting point - for example, there's some mod that splits each pawns awareness to what it sees or what another pawn tells it.  Whatever they do to split attention could be used to warn of predators, if that's what you want.  Etc.

--LWM

Yoshida Keiji

<--- <--- <--- <--- <---


I like it when people really pay attention a lot too.

There are many things in v1.0 that I find very disappointing at to have enough incentive. Something Tynan has never been good at is exactly consistency and balance. Every time people would complain whatever scale is too high, for example: relationships across all pawns to the point that in a 2 million population it seems everybody is related to everybody, Tynan would then try to "adjust scales" and take it to the other extreme opposite and the next patch, no more relatives at all would appear.
Among the many other disappointing points: gathering resources and work speed had been reduced, but the game became disproportionated as the storytellers would throw you too many pawns, like old times and now we all end up with a high population way too soon but with slower colony building pace.

v1.0 has made Extreme difficulty change to Unfair difficulty instead, where areas I played all my games in old Extreme, in the past, the only difference was in an increased number of raiders only. The most difficult setting now is about your pawns "unfairly" losing limbs to simple attacks instead.

The story teller for Lost Tribes will now throw you Crashed Ship Parts or any Mechanoid event way too early too before you even get a chance to properly protect yourself with armor, and if you are a true Lost Tribe player, nobody rushes to Electricity first, we stay longer on the neolithic phase.

Not only gathering resources is way slower but also... now everything requires Components... What part of Flak armor is "Electronic"?...

Basically there's too much "Non-sense" around to compel me to play v1.0 as I used to play all previous Alphas/Betas... Note: My Steam counter is at 5.585 hours played Rim World but I hardly play this game anymore... Unless a new build comes around...

LWM

Ah, so you are ...hoping Tynan reads this and will listen?  Whinging?  What?

If you are so willing to suggest how the game //should// be, please do not be offended if others suggest you change what //you// do.

But it does seem to me your choices are 1) stop playing, 2) decide to use mods, or 3) pay the developers buckets of money to do things your way.  I suppose there's threatening family, blackmail, etc, but that's all beneath us.  Am I, perhaps, missing something?

--LWM

Yoshida Keiji

I'm not offended, nor I know what makes you think that about me.

Bozobub

Then you're obtuse, intentionally or not.

You are claiming specific expertise in the game, then insisting everyone else needs to play to your standard.  Simple answer:  NO!  In fact, the current alert behavior for animal attacks was *demanded* many times by players, until it was finally added.

Stop whining.  You simply are not as special as you think you are.
Thanks, belgord!

Yoshida Keiji

This topic is about what expectations everyone else and myself had for v1.0.

The void in the last third of the game was largely reported much extensively than the predators, I was thinking Tynan would be adding more content in the late game as there's much lore background in the Universe quick primer, as he stated v1.0 was meant to close the development for a complete full production, however, we only got "mods". To the point that we call it B18-part 2.

The minor issues were priorized over the bigger issues that needed more attention, and that is what I consider a derailment.

Like I said many times before I'm not playing RW that much as before and I only come to double check wiki edits

The misunderstanding many people make when reading my comments is that I'm not suggesting anything "new" to require buckets of money, I'm talking about "adjustments" for most of it.

If your misinterpretation is that I want "new content" based on personal preferences, then I would have written other kind of threads of the like:

* the Firefly TV series had Western and Asian features, can you add more oriental content?

But clearly that is not what I wrote down here.

I'm not telling anyone to play my way. I am showing people that there has always been many methods to overcome adversities but "cheesy" players had chosen to complain about it first before considering ways to solve the problems nor doing proper research in the wiki to find out solutions. As a Vanilla player, I can clearly see how weak "mod" users have grown in comparison of people who don't depend on "cheats".

The Caravan user interface is a clear example how spending development time on aesthetics added very little to the game considering that all the information it provides, can already be acquired from the "Caravan forming window", making the data redundant.

I really don't think anyone enjoys the "industrial " last phase of the game. And I strongly believe there should have been more focus in that area of the game.

I totally believe the expectations for a 8 months long development of a new build were not reached, as I stated many times, no "new" content was created but basically minuscule improvements of unnecessary aspects of the game. As currently I can totally prescind QoLs and still complete the game anyways.

To close this response, Predators "ALWAYS" had plenty of solutions, people were just lazy and stupid about it. I could give you validation to your comment if only Predators..."NEVER HAD A WAY TO COUNTER" but since I numbered 11 myself, I can't agree with you.

LWM

Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on March 01, 2019, 11:06:17 PM
This topic is about what expectations everyone else and myself had for v1.0.

Ah!  Venting!

QuoteAs a Vanilla player, I can clearly see how weak "mod" users have grown in comparison of people who don't depend on "cheats".

And on an insulting spree?

QuoteThe misunderstanding many people make when reading my comments is that I'm not suggesting anything "new" to require buckets of money, I'm talking about "adjustments" for most of it.

Just BTW - "adjustments" are also v expensive in time to make, as well, you'd have to convince Tynan that your vision is the right one for the game - hence buckets of money.  Buckets.

QuoteThe Caravan user interface is a clear example how spending development time on aesthetics added very little to the game considering that all the information it provides, can already be acquired from the "Caravan forming window", making the data redundant.

I admit, I am no longer an old-school gamer.  I don't use paper and pencil to write down game stuff to refer to later ;_;

--LWM

Shurp

Quote from: LWM on March 02, 2019, 01:23:51 PM
I admit, I am no longer an old-school gamer.  I don't use paper and pencil to write down game stuff to refer to later ;_;

Funny, that reminds me, I used to play computer games with pencil and paper:

http://www.digibarn.com/collections/books/basicgames/

Grab some DnD dice for the RAND function and off you go!
If you give an annoying colonist a parka before banishing him to the ice sheet you'll only get a -3 penalty instead of -5.

And don't forget that the pirates chasing a refugee are often better recruits than the refugee is.

argusthecat

Sorry, hang on.  Did you just say no one enjoys the industrial mid game, but then complained that the game lacks depth now?  Personally, I think the game only really gets interesting once you hit the spot where you're actively choosing research to improve your colony, and you have the sustainable base to be deploying multiple caravans at a time.  Sure, I'd love for some more interactive events in the late game, a higher density of choices, but that's a criticism, not a complaint.  Please don't act like you speak for, you know, the *entire player base*.

bobomite

Not everyone wants to play the game zipping around the map watching every colonist all the time.  The predator notice was a very good thing in general.

TheMeInTeam

Quote from: argusthecat on March 03, 2019, 08:44:53 PM
Sorry, hang on.  Did you just say no one enjoys the industrial mid game, but then complained that the game lacks depth now?  Personally, I think the game only really gets interesting once you hit the spot where you're actively choosing research to improve your colony, and you have the sustainable base to be deploying multiple caravans at a time.  Sure, I'd love for some more interactive events in the late game, a higher density of choices, but that's a criticism, not a complaint.  Please don't act like you speak for, you know, the *entire player base*.

There are two ways do deal with games that have extended "won" late games.  You can add a lot more game, which is expensive and difficult to manage, or you can shorten the end game.  IMO Rimworld didn't need advanced components or extra techs near the space ship.  By the time colonies can sniff that stuff they're established and stable.  Even on merciless game over is very unlikely at that point.

When you think about what makes Rimworld interesting to play, it's tough to reconcile that situation into something that matches the early-mid game.  I'm not sure why the slowest part of the game was extended without a substantial overhaul to the decision-making and pacing of it.

Limdood

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on March 05, 2019, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: argusthecat on March 03, 2019, 08:44:53 PM
Sorry, hang on.  Did you just say no one enjoys the industrial mid game, but then complained that the game lacks depth now?  Personally, I think the game only really gets interesting once you hit the spot where you're actively choosing research to improve your colony, and you have the sustainable base to be deploying multiple caravans at a time.  Sure, I'd love for some more interactive events in the late game, a higher density of choices, but that's a criticism, not a complaint.  Please don't act like you speak for, you know, the *entire player base*.

There are two ways do deal with games that have extended "won" late games.  You can add a lot more game, which is expensive and difficult to manage, or you can shorten the end game.  IMO Rimworld didn't need advanced components or extra techs near the space ship.  By the time colonies can sniff that stuff they're established and stable.  Even on merciless game over is very unlikely at that point.

When you think about what makes Rimworld interesting to play, it's tough to reconcile that situation into something that matches the early-mid game.  I'm not sure why the slowest part of the game was extended without a substantial overhaul to the decision-making and pacing of it.

A huge huge portion of the playerbase doesn't aim to get off the planet.  We build and establish a base, strengthen and perfect the base, steadily build onto it, all while not aiming for the ship at all.  We make an amazing base, and then we KEEP PLAYING.  adding in that endgame content, such as the advanced components or the near-spaceship tech was a very educated and aware decision by the developer to cater to the huge percentage of players that just keep playing into eternity.