Wild herd of pen animals joining is annoying

[mlzovozlm]

if a bunch of ducks or chickens join the colony, it's extremely annoying having the pawns taking >10 round trips just to take them all into the pens, even if you already ordered for all of the animals to be slaughtered, because leading animals to pen takes priority over killing them
you're lucky if those ducks bunch up in a corner close enough that the pawns wraggle multiple of them at once
pen animals upon joining should make their way up to the pen by themselves even if the pen is not enclosed, they can then wander everywhere if they want to

[zgrssd]

The problem with "Auto walk to Pen" is that most of times, they will not be able to go to the pen.
Because it is enclosed by fences or walls, that they can not cross.
And if you think "just use the gates then", consider that the pen gates might be behind walls and doors as well.
They need a human to guide them through doors.

So the pathfinding would have no target point.

I looked at the list of "Handle" subtasks:
Rope roaming animal
Feed animals
Rope Animals
Slaughter Animals

So it is possible that a slight reordering could do this. Meaning it would be relatively easy to mod.
But it might also be that that being inside the pen is a requirement for the slaughtering to work, in which case no simple fix is possible.

[GoblinCookie]

The game really needs to treat herdable animals as well herds, with those join events giving you a already set-up herd.  We could use the social relationships panel to track 'herd-mates' of an animal, with animals becoming herd-mates if they spend enough time together. 

[zgrssd]

I recently learned that apparently animals that are tamed produce more meat when slaughtered (as opposited to hunting and killing their wild counterparts).
For Pen Animals, that bonus might require them to be inside the pen.

So actually changing the order of operations might be a problem.

The game really needs to treat herdable animals as well herds, with those join events giving you a already set-up herd.  We could use the social relationships panel to track 'herd-mates' of an animal, with animals becoming herd-mates if they spend enough time together. 

While the theory of the "Alpha Wolf" was pretty much a bust, a concept like that is part of many herd animals - you capture the matron/leader of a herd and the rest will kinda just follow.
Like chicks follow a mother duck.

One of the big reasons not to ride on Zebras? They got no social structure like horses, cows or sheep you can use to get a decent group into your pen. You have to tame then one after the other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmjnioNulo

[top2000]

they are troublesome even if you don't want them, that the pawn still has to walk to them to release them to the wild, even though they're already in the wild. And if you simply don't do anything and let them wander round, if they lay eggs/ produce milk or wool, your pawns will still travel all the way to collect products.

[GoblinCookie]

I recently learned that apparently animals that are tamed produce more meat when slaughtered (as opposited to hunting and killing their wild counterparts).
For Pen Animals, that bonus might require them to be inside the pen.

So actually changing the order of operations might be a problem.

I know and don't care, I still won't be keeping animals except to haul stuff or fight.  If I need a special pen with lots of grass to raise meat-animals, I might as well simply eat the animals and then plant crops in what would be their pen.

The whole meat amount thing was a dumb hack which was a desperate attempt to make herding viable without addressing the actual problem, which is that creatures that behave like Rimworld animals are not viable candidates for herding.  We don't herd cats and all Rimworld creatures are atomised individuals rather like those proverbial cats.  They are even more catlike than actual cats (I released a pregnant cat into the wild and she then ate all her kittens!). 

While the theory of the "Alpha Wolf" was pretty much a bust, a concept like that is part of many herd animals - you capture the matron/leader of a herd and the rest will kinda just follow.
Like chicks follow a mother duck.

One of the big reasons not to ride on Zebras? They got no social structure like horses, cows or sheep you can use to get a decent group into your pen. You have to tame then one after the other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmjnioNulo

What is it however with this game and it's apparent aversion to modelling social relationships among animals? 

Really we need three kinds of relationships among animals.

1. Family relationships.  This is an obvious addition that somehow is barely in the game.  Offspring animals need to have a defined relationship to their mother, their siblings and in a few cases their father (dogs and geese) as well.  Juvenile animals need to follow around their parent(s) if they can.  Creatures avoid breeding with their known relatives unless they have no other choice and offspring born of incest can get interesting deformities.  They also avoid eating their relatives unless they have no other choice (including leaving the map). 

2. Herd/Pack relationships.  This is better modeled by having a herd modeled as entity, formed when two or more suitably social animals have socially interacted a number of times.  Once a certain % of the total animals in a herd/pack have been placed in a pen, the others will automatically follow. 

3. Dominance relationships.  Depending upon species there is a fixed number of dominant animals of a given gender within each herd/pack.  This number fills up 'first' as the herd forms.  Once this quota is filled, all subsequent 'recruits' join as subordinates, subordinates unlike other animals are prohibited from reproducing.  Subordinates follow the closest dominant animal in their herd/pack around, using the same mechanics as juvenile animals do their parents.  Some creatures have a maximum herd/pack size mechanic that limits how big their groups can get. 

All animals in the herd/pack have a 'social power' mechanic, which combines their physical prowess, their age (older is better) and the number of known children they have.  Incumbents get a bonus to their 'social power' but if a subordinate animal in the same herd/pack exceeds them in this value they will usurp the slot for the relevant gender.  Creatures do not usurp their own parents however in this way, though they may usurp their siblings. 

Lastly, subordinate animals do not like being subordinates that much.  They will eventually attempt to wander off map if the environment is viable for their creature and they can get to the map-edge.  Dominant animals on the other hand do not wander off, which takes the burden off the penning mechanic since we can have a small herd of herd animals wandering the map without worry. 

[zgrssd]

I recently learned that apparently animals that are tamed produce more meat when slaughtered (as opposited to hunting and killing their wild counterparts).
For Pen Animals, that bonus might require them to be inside the pen.

So actually changing the order of operations might be a problem.

I know and don't care, I still won't be keeping animals except to haul stuff or fight.  If I need a special pen with lots of grass to raise meat-animals, I might as well simply eat the animals and then plant crops in what would be their pen.

I run out of worktime for plantworkers long before I run out of plantable space on any halfway decent map.
So if I can turn a lot of grass that needs no pawn time to plant or harvest into food? All with minimal work for slaughtering or milking? That is already a good deal.

The increased meat amount is merely the icing on the cake.

[Bolgfred]

A simple solution could be, farm animals join wildlife. most of them need animal 0, and further are easier to tame than regular animals.

[GoblinCookie]

I run out of worktime for plantworkers long before I run out of plantable space on any halfway decent map.
So if I can turn a lot of grass that needs no pawn time to plant or harvest into food? All with minimal work for slaughtering or milking? That is already a good deal.

The increased meat amount is merely the icing on the cake.

You don't want to use most of the map, only the center of the map.  Stay away from the map edges whenever possible. 

The old idea was to have animals wander into less secure (map edge) areas and then have them immediately be able to go inside in case of danger.  Now we cannot simply rezone our animals but instead have to actually go through a laborious process of moving them between pens, one which puts our pawns in mortal danger.

In any case, I feel to further clarify how my previous herding idea would work.  Say I have a herd of 10 horses, horses are set up so that a horse herd contains 1 dominant male and 4 dominant female.  The key thing here is that a horse herd is also set up to have a 20% herd move threshold, meaning that if you can move 2 of those horses towards a new pen, the other 8 will automatically follow behind but if you move 1 of them it does not.  This is quite separate from the mechanic about dominance, the subordinate horses will follow the closest dominant horse so you can sometimes get extra horses by moving a dominant one, allowing you to complete the move with less labour. 

You can move the herd by simply moving 2 subordinate horses, but if you grab one of the dominant horses you would run the change of getting extra subordinate horses tagging along, allowing you to complete the move with half the work.