More ways to acquire/reclaim metal, and not making everything cost metal.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I'm currently running a rather successful Dwarf Fortress - I mean, accidental colony - on my first try, no less. There's been ups and downs, of course, there always are. However, my main problem at present is the lack of metal.

I've just about excavated the entire bloody mountain! Well, that's a bit of a fib - I've HALF excavated the bloody mountain. The other half is coming soon. What happens when I'm done?

I think there needs to be a way to reclaim metal from "Slag Debris." There's quite a lot of it on the map to start with, and I generate quite a lot more whenever raiders show up. (Well, the raiders generate more.) Far and away my chief problem is the incessant cost of replacing sandbags, turrets, and blasting charges. I don't really mind the cost for blasting charges, you get what you pay for (a line of corpses.)

So, then, my proposals are that any or all of the following would help vastly with the metal shortages.

1: Sandbags should not cost metal! There's literally no reason for sandbags to cost metal. The very name of them indicates exactly what they are - sand in a bag! If you feel it needs some kind of further balancing point (and what with waffles to slow down the raiders, it probably does,) then either make it cost a sand resource, harvested from any sand squares but taking time to haul back to base, or just make them cost a lot more time to build than they already do.

2: A recycler building. Obviously costs metal, and probably should cost someone to operate it while it's running. Colonist collects slag from the dump pile or the area, drops it into the recycler, and out comes metal.

3: Digging deeper: Unless and until Z-levels are implemented, there still needs to be some way of acquiring more metal once the entire map is depleted. I'd propose that you can construct mine shaft entrances, either on the surface or under the mountain. Probably under the mountain. Once this is done, you can send a miner down there to mine. They'll pack up some nutrient paste (one or two days' worth, perhaps,) and head on down. Then you don't see them again for a while, and they can't be called up to fight (or alternatively, it takes them some amount of time to return to the surface level,) but assuming they're left alone, eventually they'll emerge from the mine with a vast stack of metal for the haulers to pounce upon.

4: Stone constructions instead of metal. I'm surprised this isn't already in a game which was greatly inspired by Dwarf Fortress. Let us choose to build certain things out of stone instead of metal, if we please - stockpiles, wall, etcetera. Stone walls should take longer to build than metal walls, be just as durable, probably not flammable, but should not carry a current. The colonists would probably think they don't look as pretty as metal walls, though, which is really their problem. They need to grow beards and suck it up.

Some things, of course, should require metal. You're not gonna build a gun turret without metal, not a communications array!

6: Instead of only random traders, allow you to use the hypercomm to send notice to the galaxy that you're looking to do business with a specific kind of ship. They'll arrive.. Sooner or later, anyway. Unless of course, they get shipjacked by pirates. Then when they arrive, they'll pretend to trade with you, but instead of goods, it's a bunch of bloody pirates that land around your drop beacon!

[maxthebeast11]

Or you could:

Increase map size, therefore increasing the amount of resources, therefore causing your colony to branch out once it has used all of the metal in the immediate area.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Or you could:

Increase map size, therefore increasing the amount of resources, therefore causing your colony to branch out once it has used all of the metal in the immediate area.

And in the process cause people's CPUs to grind themselves into silicon filings.

How about suggestions that (a) don't require starting a new game, and (b) don't destroy people's computers?

[NephilimNexus]

Smelter: Convert Slag into Metal, or any other kind of debris (like those 50+ pistols you have laying all over after your twentieth raider attack).

Forge: Convert metal into melee weapons.

Advanced Forge: Convert metal into firearms.

Chemical Processor: Convert Food into Fuel.  Opens new possibilities for vehicles, flamethrowers, explosives and ammunition mechanics.

Resource Types: Base Metals, Noble Metals, Plant Nutrient (veggies), Protein Nutrient (meat), Water (already mentioned elsewhere), Fertilizer, Rock/Stone (cement/concrete when processed), Chemicals, etc.

[nja]

1: Sandbags should not cost metal! There's literally no reason for sandbags to cost metal. The very name of them indicates exactly what they are - sand in a bag! If you feel it needs some kind of further balancing point (and what with waffles to slow down the raiders, it probably does,) then either make it cost a sand resource, harvested from any sand squares but taking time to haul back to base, or just make them cost a lot more time to build than they already do.

I really hope this is a somewhat high priority, as it's one of my bigger issues with the game at the moment.  All in good time, though

[Renham]

melting slags is an option, but unlimited maps is a good alternative thou, doesnt mean you will load the whole map at once, but, the area you are in, will be operative.
moving your whole colony from one place to another to extract mineral is a good option another is...

the mounted drill: it will pierce thorugh the ground and extract minerals, will use lots of energy... maybe fuel or gas?
may also cause big explotions, you know... gas deposits... sparks... yeah

[Morrigi]

Smelter: Convert Slag into Metal, or any other kind of debris (like those 50+ pistols you have laying all over after your twentieth raider attack).

Forge: Convert metal into melee weapons.

Advanced Forge: Convert metal into firearms.

Chemical Processor: Convert Food into Fuel.  Opens new possibilities for vehicles, flamethrowers, explosives and ammunition mechanics.

Resource Types: Base Metals, Noble Metals, Plant Nutrient (veggies), Protein Nutrient (meat), Water (already mentioned elsewhere), Fertilizer, Rock/Stone (cement/concrete when processed), Chemicals, etc.

This. All of the this. Air as well, if that gets re-implemented.

[Sundaysmile]

I think Stone will easily become one of the next available building resources in the game, after all we're chipping through a tonne of the stuff to get to the metals we need.

Stone could easily be used as a resource for constructing walls and sandbags which should take some of the burden away from metal consumption.  I mean metal is pretty much a universal resource for simplicity's sake so yeah, we should be able to expect more variety as development occurs, that's just common sense.  (What isn't common sense is making a carpet out of steel )
And of course, we can already make Concrete flooring, so yeah, something for later.

There's also all that slag debris and rubble laying around, which at the moment is just considered trash, though perhaps you could open up a Scavenging skill or class which allows a colonist to reclaim materials from these objects as well as destroyed or deconstructed buildings/facilities etc. 


I'm honestly not sure what the developer intends to do with this game.  Some want it to be a Dwarf Fortress game, others want tower defence.  But it's been mentioned that Z levels are difficult to input into the game, and that other franchises have already done it before, so it might not make it into this game.  That would probably mean acquiring a renewable source of metal would be done through trading, or recycling existing structures into newer ones.

[starlight]

I'm currently running a rather successful Dwarf Fortress - I mean, accidental colony - on my first try, no less. There's been ups and downs, of course, there always are. However, my main problem at present is the lack of metal.

I've just about excavated the entire bloody mountain! Well, that's a bit of a fib - I've HALF excavated the bloody mountain. The other half is coming soon. What happens when I'm done?

I think there needs to be a way to reclaim metal from "Slag Debris." There's quite a lot of it on the map to start with, and I generate quite a lot more whenever raiders show up. (Well, the raiders generate more.) Far and away my chief problem is the incessant cost of replacing sandbags, turrets, and blasting charges. I don't really mind the cost for blasting charges, you get what you pay for (a line of corpses.)

So, then, my proposals are that any or all of the following would help vastly with the metal shortages.

1: Sandbags should not cost metal! There's literally no reason for sandbags to cost metal. The very name of them indicates exactly what they are - sand in a bag! If you feel it needs some kind of further balancing point (and what with waffles to slow down the raiders, it probably does,) then either make it cost a sand resource, harvested from any sand squares but taking time to haul back to base, or just make them cost a lot more time to build than they already do.

2: A recycler building. Obviously costs metal, and probably should cost someone to operate it while it's running. Colonist collects slag from the dump pile or the area, drops it into the recycler, and out comes metal.

3: Digging deeper: Unless and until Z-levels are implemented, there still needs to be some way of acquiring more metal once the entire map is depleted. I'd propose that you can construct mine shaft entrances, either on the surface or under the mountain. Probably under the mountain. Once this is done, you can send a miner down there to mine. They'll pack up some nutrient paste (one or two days' worth, perhaps,) and head on down. Then you don't see them again for a while, and they can't be called up to fight (or alternatively, it takes them some amount of time to return to the surface level,) but assuming they're left alone, eventually they'll emerge from the mine with a vast stack of metal for the haulers to pounce upon.

4: Stone constructions instead of metal. I'm surprised this isn't already in a game which was greatly inspired by Dwarf Fortress. Let us choose to build certain things out of stone instead of metal, if we please - stockpiles, wall, etcetera. Stone walls should take longer to build than metal walls, be just as durable, probably not flammable, but should not carry a current. The colonists would probably think they don't look as pretty as metal walls, though, which is really their problem. They need to grow beards and suck it up.

Some things, of course, should require metal. You're not gonna build a gun turret without metal, not a communications array!

6: Instead of only random traders, allow you to use the hypercomm to send notice to the galaxy that you're looking to do business with a specific kind of ship. They'll arrive.. Sooner or later, anyway. Unless of course, they get shipjacked by pirates. Then when they arrive, they'll pretend to trade with you, but instead of goods, it's a bunch of bloody pirates that land around your drop beacon!

Give the option to create things made of different kinds of material:
Earth/Sand:
Sandbags, walls, mud floors, plus later on exotic stuff like pottery, etc

Stone:
Walls, stone floors, embankments for taking cover behind, watchtowers, pottery, chairs

Metal:
This should be the last stage in the progression.

This removes the need to dig for a minerals from Hour 1 and makes it more realistic.

It also allows for an upgrade cycle: dig earth, then stone, and finally metal.

I know this is a pre-alpha build but when it gets more developed I would like to see a:
mine > smelt > forge  > use  workcycle with blacksmiths and everything.

Maybe even multiple types of metal........

[Sky_walker]

IMHO we definitely need some additional types of materials. At least one more for the start.

And recycling Debris would also be great thing to have.


Another idea I might suggest is obtaining metal through trade. Imagine that you have colonists with arts skills - allow them to... say: manufacture sculptures or jewellery consuming 1-2 metal units that can be sold to traders for ~5 metal units. Proper balance of time would be required, but if colony got enough members - it could allow it to sustain itself without endlessly digging through all of the mountains. Of course this can be expanded to a whole crafting system and live supply/demand economy (more you buy = higher prices. More you sell = lower prices).

[Sundaysmile]

IMHO we definitely need some additional types of materials. At least one more for the start.

And recycling Debris would also be great thing to have.


Another idea I might suggest is obtaining metal through trade. Imagine that you have colonists with arts skills - allow them to... say: manufacture sculptures or jewellery consuming 1-2 metal units that can be sold to traders for ~5 metal units. Proper balance of time would be required, but if colony got enough members - it could allow it to sustain itself without endlessly digging through all of the mountains. Of course this can be expanded to a whole crafting system and live supply/demand economy (more you buy = higher prices. More you sell = lower prices).

At present you can already buy metal through trade. 

Food and captives seems to be the main currency to acquire cash, and whenever i'm stumped for metal, trading to a ship has been one of the main methods of acquiring it.

You could argue that you shouldn't have to rely on traders and there needs to be more options to acquire it, but in reality, ore is a finite resource.  To make it infinite without trade might make things too easy.

[Sky_walker]

At present you can already buy metal through trade. 

Food and captives seems to be the main currency to acquire cash, and whenever i'm stumped for metal, trading to a ship has been one of the main methods of acquiring it.

ok, what I mean is more elaborate trade system (I'm sure it will come sooner or later though)

You could argue that you shouldn't have to rely on traders and there needs to be more options to acquire it, but in reality, ore is a finite resource.  To make it infinite without trade might make things too easy.

Totally agreed.

[ShadowDragon8685]

At present you can already buy metal through trade.

Really? I haven't seen a trader for about 40 cycles, and I've completely tapped out my map's mineral wealth.

Food and captives seems to be the main currency to acquire cash, and whenever I'm stumped for metal, trading to a ship has been one of the main methods of acquiring it.

Which would be nice, if I had anyone to trade with.

You could argue that you shouldn't have to rely on traders and there needs to be more options to acquire it, but in reality, ore is a finite resource. To make it infinite without trade might make things too easy.

Citing "Reality" as regards what makes good gameplay is always a losing argument. For one thing, in "reality," you're not limited to a one-story slice of the mountain, you can mine up and down as well. You can also pack up and move elsewhere in the search for more metal, but I don't think either mechanic is going to get implemented any time soon.

[Wopian]

Or you could:

Increase map size, therefore increasing the amount of resources, therefore causing your colony to branch out once it has used all of the metal in the immediate area.

And in the process cause people's CPUs to grind themselves into silicon filings.

How about suggestions that (a) don't require starting a new game, and (b) don't destroy people's computers?

It barely affects my cpu on a 250x250 with far too many solar panels. Runs at just 1°C warmer than idle tenperature (26°C).


The option for larger maps should still be included. Users that can run the game well should be allowed to play the game to its full effect and not be limited by computers that choke on the game.


Also note that this is (pre)alpha and highly unoptimised.

[Sundaysmile]

At present you can already buy metal through trade.

Really? I haven't seen a trader for about 40 cycles, and I've completely tapped out my map's mineral wealth.

Food and captives seems to be the main currency to acquire cash, and whenever I'm stumped for metal, trading to a ship has been one of the main methods of acquiring it.

Which would be nice, if I had anyone to trade with.

You could argue that you shouldn't have to rely on traders and there needs to be more options to acquire it, but in reality, ore is a finite resource. To make it infinite without trade might make things too easy.

Citing "Reality" as regards what makes good gameplay is always a losing argument. For one thing, in "reality," you're not limited to a one-story slice of the mountain, you can mine up and down as well. You can also pack up and move elsewhere in the search for more metal, but I don't think either mechanic is going to get implemented any time soon.

A lot of folks have had complaints about lack of trading ships, personally I haven't had that issue.  Luck of the draw I suppose. 
Hopefully a patch update will have you sorted out.  Preferably soon. 

And yeah, yeah.  It's a game afterall.  But citing that reality has absolutely NO requirement in it's development is silly. 
Since the dev stated that he's unlikely to pursue opening up different elevations and just stick with what's on the map, trading for more minerals is the only way I can see to get MORE minerals than what's available on the map at generation.

Sure you could recycle, but metal doesn't grow on trees.  Neither does rock for that matter.  Both are finite resources, and that's the reality of the situation.

Unless of course you wanna go full star trek on the game and make things like replicators that magic the metal into existence through the power of rainbows and dreams

Anything's possible I suppose, i'm just trying to think of it logically is all.