To fluff or not to fluff?

[H_D]

The thing about naming equipment is that you name it after something you know. So if those people never heard about Lee-Enfield or M-16, they also probably don't know what Eagle is. We don't know if Earth even still exist. Unless of course it really is Earth and those animals are still there (which is possible since flora and fauna in RW are suspiciously similar to ours) or it's different world, where animals were introduced. So we either separate lore from Earth completely and will be consequent in it, or accept all similarities without cherrypicking those we don't like.

[nyxkin]

We don't know if Earth even still exist.

I agree with your point!
We don't know if the Earth exists OR has it ever existed in the universe of Rimworld; that makes the idea of using a turn of the century rifle against evil cyborgs even sillier imho. Even parallel world anime stories use weird/supercharged twists on classic weaponry. (say Trigun)

So if those people never heard about Lee-Enfield or M-16, they also probably don't know what Eagle is. So we either separate lore from Earth completely and will be consequent in it, or accept all similarities without cherrypicking those we don't like.

But... the humans of Rimworld are swimming drowning in M-16's and Mk1's right now - how could they not know about them?

Seriously, 'cherrypicking' from 'Earth-lore' did wonders for Battletech, Warhammer40k, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Star Craft, Starship Troopers, Alien and: So. Many. More.
I've just pointed out, among some other rambling, that even a generic 'Assault Rifle'
(or even the dreaded 'Rifolo Del assaultero' ) is less jarring then a 'M-16'

[H_D]

I thought your main point was to just change name of weapons because they are from Earth. If you want to redo them completely (art and name, not necessarily stats, they don't and can't represent reality anyway), to add some uniqueness then I fully support that.

[Headshotkill]

I expect in the far future if earth isn't totally destroyed it will likely be turned into one massive boring museum about humans and evolution... which is fine for me.

As for the gun-stuff, I think it's possible we come around many old guns. Think about it even today on this tiny planet there are HUGE differences in technology and use of weapons, a dirty example is the Rwandan genocide not long ago where they used machetes. Not because they like them but because they had little acces to fire-arms. Now stretch this over an entire galaxy, hell there are even mediëval planets! Those that use high-tech weapons will rarely sell them and if they do it'll be at a very high price.
However I'm not saying we could have just a little more sci-fi stuff ingame.

[Cat123]

Think about it even today on this tiny planet there are HUGE differences in technology and use of weapons, a dirty example is the Rwandan genocide not long ago where they used machetes. Not because they like them but because they had little acces to fire-arms

Ugh. Let's skip the crassness of using a real world genocide to make an example for a computer game, and skip past the inherent racism / Nationalism / ignorance about Africa, shall we?

The army began arming civilians with hand weapons such as machetes from 1990, and training the Hutu youth in combat; the official reason for this was a programme of "civil defence" to the RPF threat,[81] but the same weapons were later used in carrying out the genocide.[82] Rwanda also purchased large numbers of grenades and munitions from late 1990; in one deal, future UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali, in his role as Egyptian foreign minister, facilitated a large sale of arms from Egypt...

During 1993 the hardliners imported machetes on a scale far larger than that required for agriculture, as well as other tools which could be used as weapons, such as razor blades, saws and scissors.[86] These tools were distributed around the country, ostensibly as part of the civil defence network.[86]...

The Power leaders began arming the interahamwe and other militia groups with AK-47s and other weapons; previously they had possessed only machetes and traditional hand weapons...

Genocidal killings began the following day: soldiers, police and militia quickly executed key Tutsi and moderate Hutu leaders, then erected checkpoints and barricades and used Rwandans' national identity cards to systematically verify their ethnicity and kill Tutsi. These forces recruited or pressured Hutu civilians to arm themselves with machetes, clubs, blunt objects and other weapons to rape, maim and kill their Tutsi neighbors and destroy or steal their property.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide#Preparation_for_genocide

Yeah, don't be ignorant. In Africa, AK47s are cheap, cheerful and almost as bountiful as the wildlife.

In Rwanda the military had exclusive rights to firearms (to Americans: a majority of the world's governments work like this), and various factions started arming the civilian factions with whatever they could get away with: thus machetes as they could import them as "agricultural tools". (You'll also note that the large scale imports point to this being slightly more planned than is conventionally understood. Follow the money, you'd be surprised at what turns up on those import licenses).

If they could have got away with AK47's, I'm 100% sure that ex-Soviet or cheap Chinese knock-offs would have been delivered the next month; however, you'll probably discover that the "military, police and militia" really did not want an armed populace. Much, much harder to restore "order" post-genocide if there's a chance the survivors are armed (with the added chance that your victims could also be armed).

/history lesson over



@OP - 100% agreement. All the weapons need renaming, currently it's a real "WTF" moment, breaks immersion and is generally out of place.

[StorymasterQ]

To steer things away from over-seriousness, how about helping me with something.

SMG is Sub-Machine Gun, yes? And LMG is Light Machine Gun?

Why can't we have an OMG? For...hmm...Overpowered Machine Gun.

[REMworlder]

On that note, how about a UMP too?

On topic, I don't mind having the specifically-named weapons. With some of the changes being introduced, like quality-based weapon crafting, I'm excited to see where combat's headed and figure more cosmetic stuff can come later.

[Kagemusha]

There is the situation that the weapon art looks like the weapon named though...I personally find it far more immersion breaking when what is clearly an 'M-16' is called something like a 'CAR-61' for instance.

Playing Payday 2 I endlessly have this minor irritation that somebody asks me what weapon I have equipped and I tell them and they can't find it and then I remember that it has a different name in the game.

Hence, I would say that generic naming would be perfect right now.

We already have: short bow, pistol, pump-shotgun, et cetera.
Just change the real world named weapons to generic terms.

Uzi - Sub-machine gun (SMG)

Lee-Enfield - Bolt-action Rifle (even just Rifle would be ok)

M-16 - Assault Rifle

M-24 - Sniper Rifle

L-15 - LMG

Molotov Cocktails - I think if Earth That Was is within the Lore then we would still be calling it this but the generic term could be Petrol Bomb or Fire Bomb.

T-9 Incendiary Launcher - Could become 'Incendiary Launcher'

R4 Charge Rifle - I would prefer to just see as a 'Charge Rifle' since being a South African and having used an R4 Rifle I get a small disjoint when I equip my colonists with R4's.

I think those are all the non-generic weapons.
Whilst doing this I was reminded that we do have a preference for shortening weapon designations whenever we can. Some generic names like 'SMG' are quick and simple but calling it an Incendiary Launcher instead of simply a T-9 does get more complicated. Then again we are just reading it most of the time.

On a linguistically philosophical level it is impossible for us to completely remove any naming system from the naming systems we know already. Unless we call it something that has no connection to anything we know...which is rather difficult to say the least and merely an exercise in abstraction.

If looks like a gun, and shoots like a gun, then I don't care if it's called a schnoobil, I'm still gonna call it a gun when I see it and that abstraction is wasted.
We are using weapons that are extended from an Earth naming system and more specifically an English (and maybe even more specifically a North American English) naming system. We use 'gun', 'pistol', 'rifle', et cetera so it's not really the end of the world if we use naming systems like Combat Assault Rifle 52 (CAR-52) for the generic Assault Rifle...then again calling it an M-52,  STG-52,  AK-52, or AR-52 is just as standard a naming system in different military naming systems.

I think so long as the name is not directly connected with a currently existing firearm we can at least abstract it to being a similar weapon manufactured later in time.

TL;DR
Pistol, Shotgun, SMG, et cetera. Generic names for place holders until The Lore dictates a naming system for fluff. If ever. Whether it's called a Pistol or it's called a SAG9 (just made that up and it is in fact a pistol) POH10 it's still a small firearm that shoots a projectile.

[fraz]

Here's a reason to favor generic ("Assault Rifle") over fictional ("CAR-61") names: it allows us to assume that a given weapon designation includes a variety of different models. Based on the lore of Rimworld, there should be a huge diversity of weapons. Colonists, pirates, and traders would have brought weapons with them from numerous far away worlds. Other weapons may have been manufactured in the Rimworld's distant past, or scrapped together in the current hostile environment. I certainly don't want Tynan to create 20x as many weapons to reflect this diversity; in fact I would prefer that he keeps the list approximately the same that it is now. Instead, generic names can be used with an understanding that the names represent a category, not a specific model. Perhaps the new "quality" metric (mentioned in the change log) could further reflect this diversity within each category.

[Kagemusha]

Here's a reason to favor generic ("Assault Rifle") over fictional ("CAR-61") names: it allows us to assume that a given weapon designation includes a variety of different models. Based on the lore of Rimworld, there should be a huge diversity of weapons. Colonists, pirates, and traders would have brought weapons with them from numerous far away worlds. Other weapons may have been manufactured in the Rimworld's distant past, or scrapped together in the current hostile environment. I certainly don't want Tynan to create 20x as many weapons to reflect this diversity; in fact I would prefer that he keeps the list approximately the same that it is now. Instead, generic names can be used with an understanding that the names represent a category, not a specific model. Perhaps the new "quality" metric (mentioned in the change log) could further reflect this diversity within each category.

Perfectly put. Agree on every level.
There is no way we can name all the variants in a category so we should just use a generic blanket category like 'Assault Rifle'.

[skullywag]

Just rename pistol to something else...ive modded it locally but it bugs me that its got the  name as its type of weapon whereas all the others have a proper name. Needs to be beretta or something.

[nyxkin]

Why can't we have an OMG? For...hmm...Overpowered Machine Gun.

Or a OMFG: OP/MG with flamethrower and grenade launcher?

Here's a reason to favor generic ("Assault Rifle") over fictional ("CAR-61") names: it allows us to assume that a given weapon designation includes a variety of different models. Based on the lore of Rimworld, there should be a huge diversity of weapons. Colonists, pirates, and traders would have brought weapons with them from numerous far away worlds. Other weapons may have been manufactured in the Rimworld's distant past, or scrapped together in the current hostile environment. I certainly don't want Tynan to create 20x as many weapons to reflect this diversity; in fact I would prefer that he keeps the list approximately the same that it is now. Instead, generic names can be used with an understanding that the names represent a category, not a specific model. Perhaps the new "quality" metric (mentioned in the change log) could further reflect this diversity within each category.

Perfectly put. Agree on every level.
There is no way we can name all the variants in a category so we should just use a generic blanket category like 'Assault Rifle'.

Agreed, with new mechanics introducing factors like gunsmith skill and material, you could certainly see a difference of a +Pistol+ and a ☼Pistol☼ 

Whether you prefer a plain format ie: 'Assault Rifle' or an embellished 'Carbine/Compact/Whatever Assault Rifle' I'm still relieved to see that people find M-16's out of place on a supposedly alien world in the supposed future; and with that in mind: http://youtu.be/SZa3Y1tcKJ4

So, as Simon would point out; renaming an M-16 would not magically fix the absence of say: 'Plasma Rifle', 'Longlas', 'Magnetic Accelerator gun' and so on.

Just rename pistol to something else...ive modded it locally but it bugs me that its got the  name as its type of weapon whereas all the others have a proper name. Needs to be beretta or something.

Skully would suggest that it's easily moddable, and that's absolutely correct, hell I've added more then name changes for my local. And it's an amazingly different experience when flashy energy rafale start flying (and shredding tribals) all over the place; or when somewhere in the distance, plasma beams light up the night; or if something shuts down turtling behind walls faster then handheld sonic artillery that bypasses them, and goes straight for the poor, poncho clad bastards cowering behind...

But let's be honest, there's only so much a modder can do before he hits a wall in what he (or she) can do in relation to game mechanics or what he can be allowed to do in relation to his own limits; either how much time he can put aside even for development, let aside maintenance updates or say learning how to sprite.

Just consider that if we can get some frankly amazing mods from the currently (and I'm sorry to say) halfased base of 'Lee-Enfield' how higher the ceiling could be if there was a "proper base" to go from?

And again, I could just be an unreasonable ass: but are guns so low on the list of priorities? 
(and that's not even mentioning the different topics like most environments on Earth being more hostile then the supposeldy alien one of Rimworld, but one step at the time  )

[H_D]

 

And again, I could just be an unreasonable ass: but are guns so low on the list of priorities? 

I suppose that yes, they are pretty low now, because combat system itself is already done and you can mod basically any gun you want. I think that adding new mechanics is priority now.

[ToXeye]

And again, I could just be an unreasonable ass: but are guns so low on the list of priorities? 

I suppose that yes, they are pretty low now, because combat system itself is already done and you can mod basically any gun you want. I think that adding new mechanics is priority now.

I second this.

Also

On that note, how about a UMP too?

Or a "HUMP" and a "BUMP" and a "HUMBUG" for Hyper Uber Mega Big Unbalanced Gun : )

HUMP could be Harvesting Utilizable Mono Projectile, and is used for killing monkeys (Monos) for butchering.

BUMP could be Badass Ugly Motherload of Poo, and is a captured pirate that you put in a catapult.

Or just make up random stuff that is fairly vague, such as the "lasgun" is a laser gun and still not shooting lasers (pretty vague connection to laser, if you ask me). The point is not to take the lasgun, but that names would only serve to fit a certain kind of variety, and if that variety does not exist in the game engine then what's the point of adding it to the list of available names?

*edit* One idea of what the lasgun is, is that it shoots short but strong pulses so basically a projectile, not a laser. It's vaguely connected to laser, but just to give an idea of what it is.
*edit* And if you would make some thing that is completely vague, such as "pistol" and then slap a string to it "A232B" then it becomes "pistolA232B" so that you can add variety without making it less vague.
*edit*of course, things like "Heckler & Koch Assault Minigun" would not work with the above method. Just stick to having generic descriptions, such as "This is a weapon that resembles a world war weapon, and has similar qualities. It is good in mid-range but lacks in the long and short ranges."
*edit* The lee-einfeld is very vaguely connected to any space game. Especially since it's a standard weapon and not a "relic"! Please add relics to the game! A relic system, that keeps track of where each unique item is on the planet, or if it's floating around in space. Because a lee-einfeld is a relic even today.
*edit* And that way, you could get weird stuff that you only get one of each time you play, so that you still can have the lee-einfeld without it being the most common weapon in space.

[Wex]

What I would like to see are other kind of weapon damage.
Right now we have piercing and burn.
A grenade launcher could throw all kind of grenade; toxic damage (acid splash, gas grenade poison splash) and some kind of "electric discharge grenade" could be feaseable. The same goes for hand grenade.
For bullets: Electrolaser: low powered laser, ionizing the air and releasing a electric discharge along the beam.
Microwave weapons: to burn the enemy from the inside out
The good old flame thrower paired with a liquid nitrogen thrower (doing frostbite damage, I guess this will be a thing now, with temperature)
Standard laser and plasma weaponery, doing energy damage.
I guess there's ,ore room for expansion towards different kinds of damage.