Will colonists ever look different/more detailed in the future?

[skullywag]

But the names.....i do get what people are saying and im one of those people who has a "uniform" i work towards for my colonists but ive never had confusion over whos who even when theyre all dressed the same, with that said I CANNOT play without EdBs interface now. I will literally wait for him to update before playing the next alpha (bar my playtime as a tester), so perhaps this is the key, does anyone using EdBs interface get confused?

[Naraku]

Normally, I only lurk the forums. I've always wanted to participate, however I never really knew what to say, because most of my opinions are well voiced. However I haven't seen many people (if at all) defend the armor ordeal. Now again, this is just my opinion, but to me Rimworld isn't one of those very micro-managing games like Starcraft, or your other RTSes in the genre. While I realize this isn't really an RTS, let me tell you where my fear is coming in at.

People keep saying, "Nerf the power armor to the ground, to the point that anyone who wants to wear the armor wants them to be on guard duty 24/7, (the NPC in question has only combat related skills) or has to micro-manage their butts off every time an attack comes, and is defeated/left, (having to take the armor off so that they don't suffer huge demoralizing penalties)" basically. There are two skills in this game which is involved around fighting.

Shooting and melee alone determine how well they will fight in combat. (along with your micro-managing skills and base set up, but that's not a skill the NPC can level up) I would hope that this colonist is good at /something/ else, otherwise they aren't a really good colonist, unless you truly have the extra food to feed this NPC who becomes more of a burden then an actual benefit. While it is wonderful to have a hunter and fighter who is exceptional at what they do, but in the end if they haven't anything else at all, then they aren't a benefit. My point is, that after an attack, in the situation where this power armor is nerfed as heavily as people seem to want it to be, they'd be forced to micro-manage the armor of their colonists on and off for attacks.

I don't know about the rest of you, but sometimes I'm left without an attack for quite some time, but sometimes I'm with /a lot/ of attacks.. In another recent Randy Random game I actually have only been attacked /three/ times. But in my last one, I was attacked nearly immediately, and consistently every three days for almost a month. (I didn't think it was possible for them to attack in one or two days) So in this case scenario, you would force me to put my colonist in and out of all his armor every time they attack, and are defeated, simply because it's most beneficial to wear it in combat? A /very/ repetitive task, especially for something as simple as, "I don't want all of my colonists to look like troopers." However, I didn't come here just to rant, but also to offer an additional idea.

Perhaps instead of nerfing the power armor to the ground, how about buffing other 'armors'? It should satisfy both sides in this case. Have a worker's outfit, perhaps different kinds for different temperatures, which was made to aid colonists who focus on work. Say a Devilstrand worker's outfit which gives (as a full set, meaning all the pieces) 20% global work speed? (-10% for power armor, 20% for worker's outfit means a 30% difference) While you still could micro-manage the armor off and on for attacks, (and put on the worker's outfit) however it still provides a benefit for keeping the power armor on to your expertly trained warriors even in times of, 'peace'. (when you're not being attacked or suspect you're going to be for at least a bit) The benefit for your 'troops' in wearing the power armor in times of peace is because... you're always prepared for immediate attacks, or enemies who fall down on you while also satisfying the need for people not wanting all of their colonists to be wearing heavy armor when they're primarily workers.

That's my two cents! Heck, while we're throwing out ideas, the worker's outfit could also give a movement speed increase. Mainly this is so that some skills aren't left out of the loop. For example cooking is about 50% walking, so with the movement speed increase, you're also affecting the side of work where you're walking, and not only the side which is creating/destroying items/constructions. (or cleaning/hauling!)

[GlassDeviant]

Is it really necessary to make anything permanently set in stone? I mean, it's not as if anyone is asking for Skyrim-level graphic detail with hair and cloak blowing in the wind, highly detailed Daedric broadswords with 40 spikes growing out of every surface, amulets that prismatically refract light in every facet and dragonbone helmets that show detailed wear and dirt.

The pants request for example just asks for some simple way to recognize that a colonist is not partially naked without having to check his inventory. Being able to, at a glance, tell whether a colonist is fully clothed seems to be a worthy change, without sacrificing the simplicity of the original design.

To put another slant that may also hit home, being able to identify with and uniquely distinguish each and every colonist creates an emotional connection with the characters, so that what happens to each one (or at least some when we're talking large colonies) matters more to the player. (yes, I read at least part of your book Tynan).

[OldVamp]

these 3 mods have helped me a ton with differentiation and status

EdB Interface
Icons for each person
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=5258.0

pawn state icons
hot, cold, naked, sleepy
(would be nice if it integrated with EdB Interface)
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9163

Snappy Dresser
Recolor outfits
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9279

[GlassDeviant]

Do you know of any problems with running EdB Interface and EdB Prepare Carefully along with the Epyk Pack (a collection of 44 mods ordered and tested to work together).

[StorymasterQ]

Do you know of any problems with running EdB Interface and EdB Prepare Carefully along with the Epyk Pack (a collection of 44 mods ordered and tested to work together).

Pretty sure the Epyk Pack actually includes EdB Interface and Prepare Carefully...

[GlassDeviant]

Ah, you're absolutely right, they are under EdB alphabetically. I didn't look through the list thoroughly enough. Thank you.

[Mikhail Reign]

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I think that power armor should be pretty much nerfed (and buffed) to were it is something that is only worth wearing during a fight with the additon of a automated way to have colonists change between pre selected sets of clothing which would also have a wide range of additional buffs and nerfs. I commonly do recruit pawns who are only useful at combat, as long as they are VERY good at it. They hunt, and with the training mod, train all day. They form my assault squads and my vanguard.

I believe that if 'worker' pawns were far better off in 'worker' gear - preferably gear that buff/nerfs specific thing, but could also be quickly (but not instantly) changed into pre selected combat gear, it would go hand in hand with the 'everyone has a story' idea that this game is built on. We would more more reliably get 'Grizzled Joe, the hardass marine, who spends all day shooting' actually looking like his story AND standing out because 'Rose Lilly, the sweet talking cook, who spends her day talking to prisoners and prepairing food' is wearing a chef hat (for the +2 levels in cooking) and a sundress (+20% to talking), and not his power armour.

I acknowledge that changing pawns clothing and weapons before each battle, which is why I suggested a locker system as well as a 'action stations' button. Each pawn would 'own' a locker like a bed. They would also have 2 different loadouts: a standard loadout, and a 'action station' load out. When pawns were called to action (different to enlisting them - think of that more as direct control) they would go to their locker, deposit their standard clothes, equip their action loadout and then move to a dynamically selectable rally point. 'Action stations' could even be a job - click the button and the 'fighting' colonists load up and rally. To prevent people storing combat gear right on the line without thought, make lockers a possible target of raids. 

[Naraku]

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The advantage I mentioned, would then be swiftly departed. While the locker idea is all good for your standard attacks, but what if they /fall on top of you/? Of course this situation varies, but it's safe to say that it has a good chance to disrupt that. They'll either be in the way, on top of your colonists, etc. Especially later game when it can be Mechanoids.

You mentioned nerfed AND buffed, but didn't really explain what it should be buffed or nerfed at. You talk as if it's providing freedom, but I don't want EVERYONE to be wearing worker's gear. Especially if that colonist is only combat oriented. It should be viable to wear on your combat colonists 24/7. Meaning their work speed should be affected, but not severely to the point that you feel forced to take it off if they are going to do anything else.

I still think the locker idea is a good one. Technically speaking it is already /only/ worth wearing during a fight, because it reduces work speed by 10%. People only wear it because either one, they are too lazy, or two, they want to be prepared for further fights which may surprise them. A buff to other/new gear would make the difference significant enough to choose in between. Never the less, I like your idea, but if the power armor honestly receives much more of a nerf, I'd probably drop it all together.

TL;DR, the locker idea is good and I'd like to see at least something like it implemented, but in the end, it wouldn't fully prepare you for enemies dropping on you. So again, the power armor doesn't need to be nerfed anymore then it already is, just simply buff up other/new gear.

[Mikhail Reign]

That's sort of the point. You wold be force to choose between: taking the efficiency hit and having everyone 'ready to rumble' all day everyday, risk being caught unprepaired but get more done, or recruit colonist specifically to be armed guards who hang around in full combat gear all the time and deal with the extra mouths.

[Eleazar]

I think that power armor should be pretty much nerfed (and buffed) to were it is something that is only worth wearing during a fight with the additon of a automated way to have colonists change between pre selected sets of clothing which would also have a wide range of additional buffs and nerfs.

I strongly agree.  If the game is going to significantly penalize the player for not constantly changing his pawns outfits, then the game should provide an easy way of doing that.  And by "easy" i mean automatic or semi-automatic. Trying to be "realistic" or "balanced" or whatever is never a good reason to put together game mechanics where optimal play is tedious.  You shouldn't have to choose between succeeding and having fun.

But obviously if we have such a system we can't rely on outfit at all to identify pawns, since that will be always changing.

[GlassDeviant]

I've always subscribed to the idea that if "realism" gets in the way of gameplay, it's not a good thing, but if it enhances the gameplay, it's a good thing. Making colonists have to run to get into their armor to be able to fight would be great for realism, but would detract from the game a little, so it puts me on the fence (much good, a little bad); however I'd probably end up not liking it in the end.

[CrazyTalk]

I've always subscribed to the idea that if "realism" gets in the way of gameplay, it's not a good thing, but if it enhances the gameplay, it's a good thing. Making colonists have to run to get into their armor to be able to fight would be great for realism, but would detract from the game a little, so it puts me on the fence (much good, a little bad); however I'd probably end up not liking it in the end.

How does it detract from the game?

Everyone wearing power armor, or being able to swap instantly and automatically removes any decisions on inventory, which means you might as well just remove inventory - it's just a resource check at that point.

Games like this are about making meaningful choices - and for a choice to be meaningful, there has to be upsides and downsides to each option.

Mikhail is exactly right here - there should be options that are best for defense - having constant military colonists - but are resource intensive (you're feeding them but they're not working)- options that are worst for defense, but are resource light (all militia who aren't going to be ready in the "drop in" scenario) and everything in between.

With the locker system, everyone has work clothes on, and everyone has power armor in their locker - they change quickly - there's no choices there - we might as well just let everyone wear power armor and take away any downsides.

[Mikhail Reign]

With the locker system, everyone has work clothes on, and everyone has power armor in their locker - they change quickly - there's no choices there - we might as well just let everyone wear power armor and take away any downsides.

Ah but see, I envision the locker system adding more choices - do I put the lockers at everyone work station and hope that's where they are when an attack happens? do I put them all together in a secure room so worst case I fall back to there? do I put them 'on the line' so suiting up, and getting in position are the same thing and risk them being stolen/destroyed in combat?

Also, the types of armor having stats that would make them preferable to another in different circumstances would be important to - power armor giving large resilience buffs but large movement nerfs, body armour giving reasonable resilience and movement, helmets with optics that give high accuracy buffs but at reduced resilience compared to normal helmets, flight suits that offer little protection but markably increase movement speed - basically reasons to give the already fast good shooter some light gear and a sniper rifle to quickly move down the flanks, while slow strong colonists in power armour hold the line or other such scenarios.

Colonist stats could come in to play with this as well - strong colonist carry power armour better reducing the movement buff, accuracy buffs stack with colonist skills so a great shooter will benefit more from the optic helmet then a OK shooter,

[Boboid]

I've always subscribed to the idea that if "realism" gets in the way of gameplay, it's not a good thing, but if it enhances the gameplay, it's a good thing. Making colonists have to run to get into their armor to be able to fight would be great for realism, but would detract from the game a little, so it puts me on the fence (much good, a little bad); however I'd probably end up not liking it in the end.

How does it detract from the game?

Everyone wearing power armor, or being able to swap instantly and automatically removes any decisions on inventory, which means you might as well just remove inventory - it's just a resource check at that point.

Games like this are about making meaningful choices - and for a choice to be meaningful, there has to be upsides and downsides to each option.

Mikhail is exactly right here - there should be options that are best for defense - having constant military colonists - but are resource intensive (you're feeding them but they're not working)- options that are worst for defense, but are resource light (all militia who aren't going to be ready in the "drop in" scenario) and everything in between.

With the locker system, everyone has work clothes on, and everyone has power armor in their locker - they change quickly - there's no choices there - we might as well just let everyone wear power armor and take away any downsides.

I think he's referring to the concept of realism *generally* getting in the way of well designed mechanics

On the subject of removing the intelligent decisions entirely by adding a more useful UI- Gnomoria has a quite potent Uniform system which (theoretically) allows you to change the assigned uniform of every gnome extremely easily, whereby they drop everything and go change their equipment . However - in Gnomoria- it's seldom a good idea to have all your non-soldiers do this because attacks are typically not seen with enough warning to allow you to arm all your civilians, and also the resource cost of creating all the requisite armour is exceptionally high, to the point where there are better things you could be spending your metals on.

It's also worth noting that wearing most armours in Gnomoria carries an exceptionally large speed penalty, a gnome in full metal armour can sometimes take up to 10x the time to do a simple task, it's a lot like Rimworld Brain Damage!

Useful UI and intelligent decisions aren't mutually exclusive, you can have your cake and eat it too.

Incidentally you're indulging in a bit of Reductio ad absurdum CrazyTalk