Endless play thoughts?

[Listy]

My style of play, and from what I've seen a lot of other peoples is the Endless play. We're here, we're a colony and we're staying!

Now obviously the game isn't set up for that as such. But Tynan has said in other threads that its something he'd like ( or at least that was how I interpreted him).

So thoughts on this?

My initial thought is, I currently have a 6-7 year old colony, and my colony is about to explode just from the sheer number of items I need to store. Now clothing is getting a pass in the next version so it degrades, but I fear that's not all we need.
We should push that Degradation mechanic out to weapons. IE loosing level quality as the gun degrades over time. But to counter it I'd suggest being able to use machining tables to cannibalise guns so that you can restore the original. That way you're constantly taking resources out of the economy. Now obviously you need to balance it so you don't get screwed in the early game, but if you do it over time, not uses that should mitigate the issue.

A particularly time resource consuming think might be Power Armour maintenance.

However being able to stack weapons and apparel would be nice, to make this slightly more bearable, otherwise high colonist  number colonies will need to cover half the map to store all the resources needed.

The other issue I forsee is Micromanaging. So it might be an idea to be able to add filters or behaviours for Colonists so they keep them selves equipped. So your combat troops automatically get the best possible weapon/armour for themselves.

If that's not programmable, then a Heath Robinson version is to base it on Years. So if you loose an item level every year, just apply that on the 1st of Jan, and have a yellow alert message flash up to remind everyone to sort it out. That way you can just do one day of Micro managing and then be set for a year.

[Klitri]

I would love to play endlessly, but the AI scale just makes it too hard. It eventually sends a wave of terror and death, and unless you have a killbox you're pretty much screwed. It'd be nice if corpses degraded automatically, so much corpses become scattered about the world.

[TheSilencedScream]

I would love to play endlessly, but the AI scale just makes it too hard. It eventually sends a wave of terror and death, and unless you have a killbox you're pretty much screwed. It'd be nice if corpses degraded automatically, so much corpses become scattered about the world.

The game currently isn't tuned for endless play. You CAN try, but - yes - like you said, it eventually becomes absurd. I believe the topic is about whether or not it'd be worth fine-tuning, and the original poster believes it is.

I have to agree - I rarely have trouble, even on the higher difficulties, of escaping the colony within about 6-8 months (in-game, of course). I've "finished" the game enough times that I no longer care about finishing. It's more or less, "We're here to stay, and we'll defend with our lives."

I don't mind eventually being wiped out (as long as there's SOME kind of chance of me surviving, if I play smart/strategically), but the game also isn't tuned for long-term play. Eventually, even without mods, you get the colony set up where it's mostly self-sufficient, and - once you've mined the map of resources and researched all that you need - there's not much more reason to play that particular colony.

THAT is what needs work the most, in my opinion. Right now, with the content available, everything can be done/explored on the map in less than two years, even on mountainous regions where a lot needs to be mined.

[milon]

THAT is what needs work the most, in my opinion. Right now, with the content available, everything can be done/explored on the map in less than two years, even on mountainous regions where a lot needs to be mined.

Agreed.  I'd love an endless play ability too.  Current problems:
- AI Scaling over time
- Limited resources in the area (we really should avoid exploits like the wood >> metal ones)
- Limited trading opportunities
- Limited trader silver/cargo
- No ability to meaningfully interact with other factions
- No ability for other factions to grow/shrink (from time/disaster/attacks/invasions/disease...)
- No ability to expand colony map or move to adjacent world regions
- Nothing to do other than Growing and Art once everything is researched and built

What did I miss?  How might these problems be addressed?  What would an endless play mode look like?

[Listy]

THAT is what needs work the most, in my opinion. Right now, with the content available, everything can be done/explored on the map in less than two years, even on mountainous regions where a lot needs to be mined.

Agreed.  I'd love an endless play ability too.  Current problems:
- AI Scaling over time
- Limited resources in the area (we really should avoid exploits like the wood >> metal ones)
- Limited trading opportunities
- Limited trader silver/cargo
- No ability to meaningfully interact with other factions
- No ability for other factions to grow/shrink (from time/disaster/attacks/invasions/disease...)
- No ability to expand colony map or move to adjacent world regions
- Nothing to do other than Growing and Art once everything is researched and built

What did I miss?  How might these problems be addressed?  What would an endless play mode look like?

Well the Silver thing is in part answered by degrading items, as that will suck resources out of the economy.

Another option is more Events, which is why I started the Event thread here.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9755.0

[Tynan]

Endless play is a goal, but it's quite an ambitious one. It's sort of a "draining the swamp" kind of problem. Each time you lower the water level of crappiness just a tiny bit, some new problem is poking up and needs dealing with.

I'm curious if there are any DF experts here - how does that game handle issues with too many items in the base after a very long period of time? Does it just have more space to store things because it's 3D?

[Boboid]

Couldn't say for DF - but Gnomoria (which is a very similar 3d colony management game) handles it by having reasonably large stack sizes for items you naturally accrue a lot of but aren't particularly useful ( dirt, stone, that sort of crap), and crates/barrels/bags which hold anything/fluids/seeds respectively up to 32/64/32 per storage item, ergo per square.

That said item compression isn't everything, in practice -1 through to -7 are all " safe " levels ( nothing spawns there irrespective of light level ) which means you can effectively do whatever you'd like with them.

Imagine a Rimworld colony where you had 7x the squares to store things - and could store 32x as much in each square -, and the time it took to transition from level to level was equal to the time it takes for a pawn to move one square.

Gnomoria still suffers from item creep, but you've got 200x the space to store it all

[muffins]

In DF we have containers (bins (metal), barrels (wood), pots (stone), bags (leather/cloth) etc). They're very cheap to make, take up one tile but can store ten items/stacks so stockpiles can house 10 times the number of items that would be usually the case. You don't need much space for stockpiles if you have lots of containers in them. Hauling is very efficient in DF. Haulers can grab a barrel etc from a stockpile, go off to stick several stacks/items into it then return the barrel to the stockpile. There are also wheelbarrows which speed up hauling speed (useful if you have bins made of lead). So things get cleaned up quickly.

Most metal things can be melted down so goblin weapons etc can be turned into usable bars. Traders will take almost anything so a useful rubbish (rock/metal/whatever) removal method is to make trade goods out of it and sell it to traders. You can even sell whole containers and their contents.

[PhenomTaker]

Funny idea: How about "Balloons" ? Crafting something like that with growing material. A simple Ballon with a crate. Load some stuff on it and up in the air. If you need it again, shoot it down.
Or something like that, to get stuff "out of the game" and later somehow back, if needed.

Maybe events that destroyed/steal your items. Raiders will come, not only to kill you, but rather stealing/destroying stuff. The player is now forced to spend more materials on that. Also make those type of raids stronger so the player will have to choose between saving stuff or saving people.

(In addition to the containers from DF)

[Listy]

Funny idea: How about "Balloons" ? Crafting something like that with growing material. A simple Ballon with a crate. Load some stuff on it and up in the air. If you need it again, shoot it down.
Or something like that, to get stuff "out of the game" and later somehow back, if needed.

Maybe events that destroyed/steal your items. Raiders will come, not only to kill you, but rather stealing/destroying stuff. The player is now forced to spend more materials on that. Also make those type of raids stronger so the player will have to choose between saving stuff or saving people.

(In addition to the containers from DF)

I have noticed that having your stockpile outside your base is perfectly doable. Ok I can understand Pirates and settlers ignoring the stockpile, but I would have thought the Tribal would have looted it dry.

[evrett33]

In DF one can build infinite stockpiles that take up one square but store an unlimited amount of one item. Thats one way the larger fortresses cut back on stockpile micro. Barrels and bins and various other storage items is certainly the less cheaty version of that. There is also a much deeper crafting system that eats up quite a bit of materials you have lying around. There are mods out now for Rimworld that provide infinite storage for people play the long game.

[RemingtonRyder]

What I think helps is having some sort of resource sink.

Like for example, in the as-yet unreleased version of my Winter is Here mod, you can spend resources on upgrading turrets into tougher and nastier turrets. Resources that can come from spending your silver with the traders, or from mining it out of the map. Either way, there's a bit of wealth erosion over time, but with the twist that your colony can take the tougher waves without needing to spam quite so many turrets in a killbox.

In a nutshell, quality of life stuff in the end game. Growing things upwards instead of outwards.

[Listy]

In DF one can build infinite stockpiles that take up one square but store an unlimited amount of one item. Thats one way the larger fortresses cut back on stockpile micro. Barrels and bins and various other storage items is certainly the less cheaty version of that. There is also a much deeper crafting system that eats up quite a bit of materials you have lying around. There are mods out now for Rimworld that provide infinite storage for people play the long game.

2 square Plasteel Shipping container for bulk storage of a single item? I like the idea!

[Noobshock]

Yeah, DF has various craftable containers which can hold all sorts of stuff, and make storage a lot less messy when planned for.

[Klitri]

I would love to play endlessly, but the AI scale just makes it too hard. It eventually sends a wave of terror and death, and unless you have a killbox you're pretty much screwed. It'd be nice if corpses degraded automatically, so much corpses become scattered about the world.

The game currently isn't tuned for endless play. You CAN try, but - yes - like you said, it eventually becomes absurd. I believe the topic is about whether or not it'd be worth fine-tuning, and the original poster believes it is.

I have to agree - I rarely have trouble, even on the higher difficulties, of escaping the colony within about 6-8 months (in-game, of course). I've "finished" the game enough times that I no longer care about finishing. It's more or less, "We're here to stay, and we'll defend with our lives."

I don't mind eventually being wiped out (as long as there's SOME kind of chance of me surviving, if I play smart/strategically), but the game also isn't tuned for long-term play. Eventually, even without mods, you get the colony set up where it's mostly self-sufficient, and - once you've mined the map of resources and researched all that you need - there's not much more reason to play that particular colony.

THAT is what needs work the most, in my opinion. Right now, with the content available, everything can be done/explored on the map in less than two years, even on mountainous regions where a lot needs to be mined.

No.. The topic asked for thoughts on endless play, not whether it was worth fine tuning or not..

Anyway, yes, the main issues happen to be
A: Resources running out
B: AI scale wipes you out
C: Too many items/colonists lag game

For A, perhaps more common trader ships could resolve that issue, as you can purchase a lot of steel from them.
For B, all that needs to be done is more ways to defend your base, really.
And C, the game is in alpha, so it's not surprise that it's not optimized. I'm sure Tynan is planning to optimize it after he is done adding in the main parts of the game.