Mortars: any good?

[Listy]

Not so long ago Tynan asked us about mortars, and the general consensus seemed to be "95% useless, luxury item for long term large colonies". Or at least that was my reading of the thread.

Then in the next patch we got:
"Buffed mortars so players use them: Cheaper/faster to build, faster shooting, greater accuracy, cheaper shells"

Shells still seem expensive, 10 Chemfuel and a steel, compared to the steel cost last time. My biggest cost here is time production. Time to fetch both ingredients Vs one, and then crank out a shell.

Firing rate still seems too slow for what it is, also accuracy still seems poor?

I just got attacked by a bunch of sappers so I grabbed some colonists and began to shoot at them, I had four tubes in action, and I also had three snipers firing at them. I'd credit the snipers with doing more damage than the mortars, and the snipers were a hell of a lot easier to produce.

So are the Mortars buffed enough or does the original verdict on them stand?

[b0rsuk]

I'm not sure what did you expect. Sappers is a pretty fast attack. Mortars shine on larger maps, against slower enemies, raids that prepare to attack, on maps with snow or other slowing obstacles. Like with most things, it's good in some situations but not so good in others. Mortars are especially good against tribals and sieges. EMP mortars are good against mechs and sieges. It's just incendiary mortars that have no good use - I mean, you could fend off a siege with them, but not if there's no vegetation, not if it starts raining, etc. Why bother...

[Tynan]

I am also interested in what people have to say about this.

We're also considering redesigning mortars so there's just one mortar building but different munitions for it. Just an idea right now.

[Bozobub]

I am also interested in what people have to say about this.

We're also considering redesigning mortars so there's just one mortar building but different munitions for it. Just an idea right now.

I can totally get behind this potential change.

[Serenity]

We're also considering redesigning mortars so there's just one mortar building but different munitions for it.

Yes please

[Wheatley]

I am a big fan of mortars personally, but I play huge maps and large colonies, so I often have lots of mortars firing in volleys. They are great for poison/psychic ships, and large raids usually end up with a large amount of bleeding and/or missing limbs before they are even halfway to me. Gives those irritating brawlers something to do while the real fighters work too.

[Lys]

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33097.0
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33121.0

Yes, mortars are good now against larger raids, mechanoids, manhunters... Especially if you have multiples firing at once.

[JimmyAgnt007]

Personally, id prefer direct fire cannons to be more helpful.  That being said, mortars should have a range more along the lines of 2x sniper range, and target areas instead of pawns.  Right now they are more like artillery pieces. 

Direct fire targets pawns, indirect targets spaces.  So if you know the path the enemy is going to take, you lay down a barrage for that space.  This also helps to avoid friendly fire when the pawn your mortars gets too close to the rest of your pawns.   

[DariusWolfe]

I am also interested in what people have to say about this.

We're also considering redesigning mortars so there's just one mortar building but different munitions for it. Just an idea right now.

YES. Do this, please.

Also, if some sort of battlefield-shaping effects could be added, that'd be a great, realistic addition that would add value; What I mean by this is if mortar fire would essentially interdict an area, perhaps for a brief period after impact, so enemy pawns would path around it, or that near misses would cause a panic effect similar to how pawns flee from hostile animals; Both of these additions would bring in-game usage of mortars more in line with real-world usage of artillery, less as a weapon to cause damage (though it's obviously highly capable of that) and more as a way to shape the battlefield.

Right now they are more like artillery pieces.

That is exactly what a mortar is. 'Direct fire' and 'mortar' shouldn't ever be used in the same sentence. Mortars, specifically, are always high-angle as well, whereas other types of artillery can fire low-angle (faster, less inaccuracy introduced by wind etc, but vulnerable to large obstacles.) and can even be used as direct fire weapons in extremis.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I meant their power and range were more like arty than mortars. 

[Panzer]

From my experience mortars are good vs groups of 10 people upwards, any less and you might end up wasting shells and not get a single hit.

Before the rebalance I usually built around 6-8 mortars to get reliable hits with them, now I am usually content with 2-3 mortars, they are accurate enough to deal considerable damage to larger hordes like tribals. This was a raid of 60 tribals and I could considerably weaken them with 3 mortars before they attacked me

https://images.discordapp.net/attachments/211583606232055809/325562492145106948/Mortarwork.jpg

[Mday]

Remember when reloading the mortar don't require a mortar shell (hence no cost)? Back than I will have as many mortars as I can operate and fire them all at once at those super large raid group. This create some kind of carpet bombing effect and it was super fun to watch for how bad ass it is. Also for its accuracy it was the only way to make it work. Ever since the introduction of mortar shell, that bit of fun is gone .

The new mortar as of A17 is much more accurate, it is pretty good at weakening enemy raid group. For my settlement size of 12 I only need 4 mortars firing about 4~6 volleys when dealing with human raids. Also works very well in damaging the psychic ships hence forcing the mechanoid to attack, which in turn effectively separating the Scyther from the Centipede for a easier defending fight. It doesn't really help in damaging the mechanoid as it is pretty hard to hit them without damaging the psychic ship.

Overall the A17 mortar is more useful for its accuracy. You don't need to have 20+ man to make effective bombardment possible. However it is not as fun as the old mortar which is totally inaccurate but free of operating cost.

[MrEprize]

I am also interested in what people have to say about this.

We're also considering redesigning mortars so there's just one mortar building but different munitions for it. Just an idea right now.

This is a great idea!  Some examples:
Basic Round (existing)
White phosphorus (based on Firefoam Poppers?)
EMP (late game?)
Smoke (based on Smokepop belt?)

[DariusWolfe]

I meant their power and range were more like arty than mortars.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that Rimworld mortars are too powerful and their range is too long? Artillery pieces (cannons) are typically larger than mortars, and have a longer range. Re-reading your previous comment, it also seems like you think they currently target pawns? As far as I recall (I've been off of gaming for a few weeks), they're targeted the same as grenades; You point them at a space on the ground, and then they hit somewhere in that vicinity, and have a blast radius; This is pretty much exactly how RL mortars and artillery pieces work, though IRL there's someone, a person or a machine (or both) doing some basic trig with direction and distance to determine the coordinates of desired impact, whereas the God's Eye View of Rimworld removes the tedium of doing the math.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that Rimworld mortars are too powerful and their range is too long?

Yes, it seems that way to me.

Mortars that you see most commonly on screen are much smaller, man portable, pipes that you plant on the ground and target the enemy with.  The bigger pieces you can build in RW are more like Artillery.

When you dont target them manually, do they not target enemy pawns?  If the pawns are moving then they tend to miss a lot more.  If they aimed ahead of the pawn it would work out better.