Graphics

[Idlemind79]

I Thought originally the Prison Architect assets where placeholders.. is that still the case?

Looking at a title like Judgement you can appreciate the difference scale / detail / animations make on the characters (the only good part in my opinion, the game otherwise doesn't look appealing, but the "colonists" are well animated and detailed at least).

When this game hits Steam a lot of people are going to post how it's ripped of from P.A... which is so far from the truth but at a glance yeah you can see why people would say "why am I paying for a PA mod?".

Just wondering if this game will have it's own unique look at some point. The simplified icon art is OK but it would be pretty mind blowing with a gritty sci-fi look and realistic graphics instead of the icon / simplified look.. imho.. many will disagree with me here and I respect that.

[Nofear001]

I wouldn't mind improved graphics and animations, but i can say i played P.A. and i just couldn't get into it.
This on the other hand, i simply cant stop playing.

[ReZpawner]

I'll take this smooth gameplay over what's considered 'good graphics' any day. Besides, the graphics just kinda work. Not too much, not too little.

[Toggle]

Eh. The graphics are original, Rimworld has it's own artists, although yeah they look similar to PA. And it's true some people say the PA and Rimworld copycat thing, although the only real similar aspects is really the building method. The colonists look entirely different, gameplay is a world away, prisons are very limited in Rimworld compared to PA.

[Silvador]

I have zero issue with the graphics as they are. In fact, I'd prefer they stay as they are. They are a part of the charm of the game. As for them being similar to prison architect, I never once even thought of that until you brought it up. And on that not, it wouldn't be the first time that games share graphical similarities. Terraria and Starbound, for example. Graphically, they look similar. But the similarities end there. The two games are entirely different and that is what will make RimWorld stand on its own, just as it already does.

[hoochy]

The gfx will hold people back from playing this game. It held me back until I saw a video and could make any sense of what I was looking at. I didn't have that same problem with prison architect, its images are easier to determine what you are looking at. Rimworld is a lot more complex than Prison Architect and has "items" and "structures" which aren't immediately obvious from the graphics. You look at PA and realize its a prison, it even has text which gives you an idea of what each room is. I look at the "Shower" text and then these weird circle graphics that look nothing like showers and think "oh thats a shower, ok".



People will look at screenshots like this below and wonder what they are looking at, there are no great visual clues and aren't that many things which are obvious. The graphics look better than PA above, but it doesn't actually change the issue that if you don't mind "indie 2d graphics" you just don't know what most of it is you are looking at. Which is the problem, imo. They just need to concentrate on videos for the marketing, or maybe add a bit of text to the rooms (optional) for screenshots so people can understand it better. Some graphics tweaks would certainly help, for people who know the game we don't have a problem looking at the image below and knowing what everything is, but people who have never touched the game will have little idea and that will hurt conversions.



And an example which will probably help people here understand better. Look at dwarf fortress below, there are people who can look at this and it makes as much sense as the Rimworld graphics do to us. But you are wondering "what is that?" right? "What am I looking at exactly?" Does it make you want to play Dwarf Fortress? If you don't care about graphics then you would likely be playing Dwarf Fortress as it has probably the most options and "gameplay" of any game ever created.

[b0rsuk]

The gfx will hold people back from playing this game.

Then why you're playing an outdated alpha ? It looks different in up-to-date version.

[Silvador]

You know, it's funny, because I can pull DOZENS of screencaps of games I know nothing about and look at them and I'll get the exact same " thought" of "wtf am I looking at?" From Commodore 64 games to Star Citizen. A screencap will tell you NOTHING about a game, no matter how "informative" it is if you know nothing baout the game. Do you know how this is resolved? Research. Talking to people. Watching people play. Playing the game.

If the graphics were going to hold this game back, how is there so many people playing it already?

[hoochy]

You know, it's funny, because I can pull DOZENS of screencaps of games I know nothing about and look at them and I'll get the exact same " thought" of "wtf am I looking at?" From Commodore 64 games to Star Citizen. A screencap will tell you NOTHING about a game, no matter how "informative" it is if you know nothing baout the game. Do you know how this is resolved? Research. Talking to people. Watching people play. Playing the game.

You know what a Commodore 64 is, which means you've been playing games with basic graphics and "WTFing" for a lot of your life already at screenshots. So you are not "the norm" and neither am I, yet I was put off this game for some months because even though I knew basically what the game was the screenshots and non informative videos I saw were not interesting enough and I couldn't really understand the actual gameplay.

If the graphics were going to hold this game back, how is there so many people playing it already?

I didn't mean holding it back from being successful, it already is very successful, just holding it back from being as successful as it could be. We all know the gameplay is great, but people who haven't played it don't, and to get people to play it they need to basically understand some aspects of the game, and know what they are going to get, right? The visuals help portray that to them. I'm never going to play Dwarf Fortress while it looks like something I would have found on a Commodore 64 BBS in 1985, no matter how good the game play is.

[Silvador]

Actually, I only know what a Commodore 64 is because of the internet. My gaming experience goes back no further than a decade and a half. Compared to some, I'm still a noobie. But my point still remains.

And this game is still in alpha, it's still being developed. Near as I can tell, much of its renown comes from word of mouth. I didn't even know this game existed before a friend told me about it and shared the download link. From there I played the game, learned about it, and moved to support it. When it is finally released publicly, on Steam and in whatever other way, there will likely be a great deal more people to spread the word about it and that alone will make its sales explode on steam. Take a look at Minecraft and see how its renown grew. More than half of its player base was established long before it was even officially completed and released because of word of mouth. This game doesn't need screencaps to sell it. Being a great game to play and having great supports is what will see its success.

As for Dwarf Fortress, I've played it. And while the interface can seem a bit daunting at first, I still greatly enjoyed it and it was its complexity and learning curve that halted me from playing it... also because of other games like it that were similar and easier to learn. But that's not to say I won't return to Dwarf Fortress some day. And frankly, I think that if Dwarf Fortress did change its interface, it would cease to be the Dwarf Fortress that is known and loved by its players.

A game's appearance isn't what defines it or its success. You can play an ugly ass game and still love it. Just because people don't immediately know anything about what they are looking at doesn't mean they will turn away from it. A book's cover doesn't stop people from reading it, nor does a DVD cover stop a person from watching the movie. What stops people from being a part of a following is not knowing anything about that following and that which is being followed and pictures won't ever change that, no matter what it is.

[Fluffy (l2032)]

There's a balance there though, DF is partially so deep because Toady has ignored UI/graphics. That allows him to put focus completely on gameplay. Obviously you could throw more money at it, and hire more artists/developers - but then you hit the next hurdle: if it costs more, it'll have to have more of that fabled 'mass market appeal' to make financial sense, which generally just means dumbing the game down. I don't think just adding better graphics alone is going to make much difference for the kind of people who aren't willing to spend an hour or two investigating how stuff works.

It's a path that could be taken, but personally I'm happy with the direction RimWorld has taken - and in the end I think this is as much a passion project for Tynan as anything else. If he wanted to develop big games, he could have stayed with his former employers (I vaguely recall him working on the Bioshock games? - he worked on AAA productions in any case).

Also, counterexample; every screenshot of Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, basically Paradox's entire catalogue will have you go into complete information overload. These games appeal because a growing niche of gamers loves the depth to these games, not so much because of their clear graphics or UI [/sarcasm]. Getting started with these games probably means days, if not weeks, of figuring out how stuff works - something that hasn't really changed all that much even with the graphics and UI improvements in the latest installments/DLC's.

[whoishigh]

As much as we want to think that looks don't matter, they really do. Rimworld doesn't need next-gen cutting edge graphics, but it definitely needs to move away from borrowing Prison Architect's style. There's no denying the two are exceedingly similar, and that can and will hurt future sales when exposed to the fickle Steam masses.

[stefanstr]

I don't mind the graphics but my GF never picked up RimWorld only because "it's ugly." And that although she finds the concept interesting.

[Aarkreinsil]

The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.

That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.

So yeah, the current graphics are final.

You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.

[whoishigh]

The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.

That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.

So yeah, the current graphics are final.

You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.

Wow, that's really disappointing. When I bought the game, the idea was that these were placeholders. Specifically because of the following description on Kickstarter:

"It looks a lot like Prison Architect. What's up with that?

Blame my (Tynan's) lack of art skill - especially with characters. I made the character art you see in the trailer as a stopgap, and borrowed the Prison Architect style because I'm not a good enough artist to develop a new one. They were never intended to be final. With this Kickstarter, we'll be able to get a real artist who can sit down and develop an original style for RimWorld."

Very, very disappointing.