Ludeon Forums

RimWorld => General Discussion => Topic started by: NemesisN on October 17, 2017, 08:41:59 AM

Title: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on October 17, 2017, 08:41:59 AM
I am tired of this, my colony always feeds prisoners with best meal which is lavish meal even for those who are downed

This is what I did to try avoiding it
1) Put a refrigerator in every cell with packaged survival meal in it and still my colonist brings them lavish meal in their cell
2) Installed a mod that has a food policy tab on what each person should eat as well as animals, tried prisoner food which is worst food first, tried no food which is get none, tried 1st worst meal which is get the worst meal first, nothing helps they still bring lavish meal in their prison cells

nothing works my colony still keeps hauling Lavish meal to prisoners and I don't want to build a that food dispenser and share rooms, my colony also has to have access to prison to interact with prisoners so blocking the doors is not an option

Is there a mod to stop this ? Developer should really patch this in vanilla and add a option to select who gets feed what its just stupid and annoying
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on October 17, 2017, 09:07:45 AM
also when there is Lavish meal my colonist decide to eat raw food for some strange reason
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on October 17, 2017, 09:21:32 AM
wow just wow

do my mods make them retarded or its just their default IQ ?

(https://i.imgur.com/07sYJtb.png)
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: giannikampa on October 17, 2017, 09:33:53 AM
AFAIK there is a common way to provide nutrition: "choose the best". Maybe distance enters in play, as well as some minor things like ascetic trait that will choose non lavish for himself.
But when someone has to feed someone (Downed animals included!) he will always choose the best he can get.

On your particular situation you can uncheck "Take food" from a capable of walking prisoner prisoner menu). This way he will go for the best food you will allow in the prison and nobody will give him food (if there is no food available he could starve to death). A fine solution for largely populated prisons is a nutrient paste dispenser as only reacheable food source. Your pawns won't use it for themselves because it is in a prison, but will carry raws in to the hoppers.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Canute on October 17, 2017, 10:49:46 AM
wow just wow

do my mods make them retarded or its just their default IQ ?

(https://i.imgur.com/07sYJtb.png)
Food inside prisoner area can't be used by your regular pawn, not even for feeding prisoner.

When the prisoner is sick and laying on the bed, your pawns need to get a food from outside to feed the prisoner, and they will take the best one.

But the food selection mod (smarter food selection) should work here, and give the prisoner the worsest food (need to be outside the prisoner area).
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: SpaceDorf on October 17, 2017, 10:51:09 AM
wow just wow
do my mods make them retarded or its just their default IQ ?

Defaul Settings. Food and Items in Prison Stockpiles are off Limits for colonists to use.
If you place the same freezer outside of your prison you can use the food to care for your prisoner.

Sadly the AI selects what they take to feed wounded .. anythings pawns, prisoners animals .. to use what is closest or favorite to the pawn doing the feeding. Not was is closest or selected for the receiving party.

That is why so many starving chicklets are rescued with lavish meals ..

But the food selection mod (smarter food selection) should work here, and give the prisoner the worsest food (need to be outside the prisoner area).

Translation : Built 2 Food Dispensers
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on October 17, 2017, 01:22:38 PM
Nemesis is right. There should be food selection. Why not? The game, vanilla, already has medical tab selection to choose how we want to heal prisoners. Basically, the Prisoner tab should replace "Gets food" (on/off) for a similar bar with different meals so we can select, what they get.

I don't use mods but the freezer thing is ridiculous to me. Are real life prison cells actually equipped with personal refrigerators? I have watched many documentaries of somewhat luxurious prisons but never saw a prison cell where inmates can pick as many meals they want.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on October 21, 2017, 07:55:34 PM
I managed to figure it out using that food restriction mod....I needed to select all prisoners into receiving no food....if I set it to receive food even prisoner option or worst meal first option my colony still hauls nearest food they have which is lavish meal

I don't use mods but the freezer thing is ridiculous to me. Are real life prison cells actually equipped with personal refrigerators? I have watched many documentaries of somewhat luxurious prisons but never saw a prison cell where inmates can pick as many meals they want.

Do real life prisons have organ harvesting going on ? Rimworld ain't exactly a real life based game...the reason I have fridges inside prison cells is so that I avoid a problem of my colonist hauling every few seconds up and down food....this way they have 10 meals inside the cell that does not spoil
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on October 21, 2017, 08:04:11 PM
never mind what I just said....they are still hauling lavish meal to prisoners even tho their cells are packed with 10 simple meals and prisoners have NO FOOD policy....I just noticed it....this is a complete brainfuck for me....20 prisoners getting lavish meal daily  >:(
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Wishmaster on October 21, 2017, 08:30:00 PM
I managed to figure it out using that food restriction mod....I needed to select all prisoners into receiving no food....if I set it to receive food even prisoner option or worst meal first option my colony still hauls nearest food they have which is lavish meal

I don't use mods but the freezer thing is ridiculous to me. Are real life prison cells actually equipped with personal refrigerators? I have watched many documentaries of somewhat luxurious prisons but never saw a prison cell where inmates can pick as many meals they want.

Do real life prisons have organ harvesting going on ? Rimworld ain't exactly a real life based game...the reason I have fridges inside prison cells is so that I avoid a problem of my colonist hauling every few seconds up and down food....this way they have 10 meals inside the cell that does not spoil

If you set a policy, "worst meals" or "prisoners", they will bring the worst meals to your prisoners.
Maybe check mods settings and pawn policies individually.

If you mean that your colonist bring lavish meals to the refrigerator SFS does not affects hauling jobs in any way.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: christhekiller on October 21, 2017, 09:40:37 PM
You could just build a nutrient paste dispenser in your prison and uncheck the "prisoner gets food" option. It's what I do
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on October 23, 2017, 10:31:40 AM
If you set a policy, "worst meals" or "prisoners", they will bring the worst meals to your prisoners.
Maybe check mods settings and pawn policies individually.

If you mean that your colonist bring lavish meals to the refrigerator SFS does not affects hauling jobs in any way.

I already tried that results are still same....even with NO FOOD! policy they still get hauled lavish meal to their cells

No the refrigerators are full of simple meals (10 meals each fridge) but they still haul lavish meal into their cell and put it on the ground...his job being feeding prisoner "name"
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Canute on October 23, 2017, 10:50:34 AM
I think it is a vanila feature that you can enable/disable food for prisoners.
Just disable food for each prisoners.
They can grab their from from the fridge you put inside the prison.
But you need to be careful with prisoner which are incap. and can't get their food.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Wishmaster on October 23, 2017, 11:00:52 AM
If you set a policy, "worst meals" or "prisoners", they will bring the worst meals to your prisoners.
Maybe check mods settings and pawn policies individually.

If you mean that your colonist bring lavish meals to the refrigerator SFS does not affects hauling jobs in any way.

I already tried that results are still same....even with NO FOOD! policy they still get hauled lavish meal to their cells

No the refrigerators are full of simple meals (10 meals each fridge) but they still haul lavish meal into their cell and put it on the ground...his job being feeding prisoner "name"

Surprising. I am sure the mod works... Check the mod settings.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Havan_IronOak on October 26, 2017, 11:06:02 AM
This one bothers me too. I wish that there were a level selection as there is is with medicine type.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Wishmaster on October 26, 2017, 02:23:03 PM
This one bothers me too. I wish that there were a level selection as there is is with medicine type.

I don't understand why people want this.
Let's say you don't have simple meals but only fine meals instead and you are limited to simple meals.
Perhaps you want to possibility to create a list of allowed foods instead.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: fatm3l on October 27, 2017, 11:02:28 AM
They give them best food so they can recruit them easily. ;D
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Daniell on October 27, 2017, 12:01:42 PM
Exactly this. Why else would you be feeding prisoners, anyway, if not to recruit them or else get them well enough to walk before you release them? Any other end to a prisoner's existence as a prisoner requires no feeding whatsoever.

Well, except for the "unskilled doctor's test dummy" ending. And if you're going to spam surgery on a prisoner, I think the poor bastard deserves decent food...
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: corestandeven on October 28, 2017, 11:37:12 AM
In answer to "Why else would you be feeding prisoners" are you assuming that players always want to recruit prisoners? I often sell prisoners who offer traits the colony doesnt need or have a 99% difficulty in recruiting, as the silver and slight negative mood buff to the colony outweighs keeping the prisoners. So why would I be wasting lavish meals on prisoners I intend to sell? Players may also be even more evil and use prisoners as live organ/limb donors when colonists get injured, so again why waste the best meals on them? Finally, when you release prisoners my understanding is players get the same positive factions relation bonus regardless of if the released prisoner has been well fed or given raw food, the bonus seems to only be affected if the released pawn is healthy or unhealthy. So again why would I be wasting my best food on prisoners who offer the same factions relations bonus regardless of how I fed them?

It is just so illogical for pawns to (by default) give best food to prisoners over colonists. The only reason to feed prisoners the best food is indeed if you want to charm and recruit them. Even then in my experience it seems to make little difference to the odds of recruiting prisoners if you do treat them well (e.g. with awesome rooms, great food, loads of art, etc) or if you treat them like worthless scum (e.g. no beds, small room, bad food, ugly environment, etc). If there is an increase in the recruitment probability by feeding them well it doesnt seem large enough bonus. [Note: I'm talking about my experience with A17 here, so not sure if any of this has been or will be addressed by A18.]

Players should have the option, like with medicine, to determine the maximum quality of food. That way if players do want to charm a particular prisoner they can turn this up, and if players do not want to recruit then equally they can turn the quality down.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on October 28, 2017, 12:31:59 PM
Completely agree. If prisoner treatment would make any difference, then we should be visually able to notice this by recruitment chance alterations based on mood. The better I treat the prisoner, the lower his percentage decreases and the worst I treat him, the higher difficulty to recruit if intended so.

(https://i.imgur.com/N4azr1y.jpg)
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Canute on October 28, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
And do you think this isn't the case ?
Try to feed them with human meat, or simple meals made out of human meat. Harvest some organs.
And don't forget to put him into a 2x1 cell, with just an sleeping spot.

And then watch his mood and try to recruit him.
Just to compare give him fine meals, a pleasant 5x5 cell with superior bed,table,chairs.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Daniell on October 28, 2017, 01:03:50 PM
Badly-treated prisoners love to go berserk and/or try to escape, and then you end up killing them before you can recruit them.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: corestandeven on October 29, 2017, 07:06:34 AM
And do you think this isn't the case ?
Try to feed them with human meat, or simple meals made out of human meat. Harvest some organs.
And don't forget to put him into a 2x1 cell, with just an sleeping spot.

And then watch his mood and try to recruit him.
Just to compare give him fine meals, a pleasant 5x5 cell with superior bed,table,chairs.

I would like to know how much of an increase to chances treating prisoners well brings, as my experience (A17) is it makes little difference. If i have a 99% difficulty prisoner, my best social pawn as warden (level 15 on the A17 game I'm playing) in a decent room with high quality beds/tables,etc, in a well lit room, with fine meals being given, the percentage chance for recruitment seems to be always lower than 5%. It seems the level of social skill of pawns seems to be a higher factor, as my second warden who has a social skill level of 5 has a 0.5% chance of recruitment on the same prisoner in the same enviroment. So with that in mind it seems to me that currently spending lavishly on prisoners, including giving them the best meal, has little effect. I agree completely that treating them well should seriously increase the odds, so maybe this needs to be tweaked in a future amendment.

Badly-treated prisoners love to go berserk and/or try to escape, and then you end up killing them before you can recruit them.
   
True, but again this is assuming the player wants to recruit them and cares about their health. Sounding cold, if I am keeping a prisoner as I intend to sell him/her the next time a slaver comes around, then I don't overly care about their wellbeing - certainly not over the wellbeing of my own colonists. If I have the choice of my colonists being sad and slipping into mental breaks and being unproductive, or prisoners, it is a no-brainer - the best resources should go to colonists.


As I say the simplest solution to please players who want to treat prisoners well in order to recruit, and those whose playstyle is to prioritise colonists wellbeing over prisoners, is a system akin to medicine.  That should please all sides.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: ShadowTani on October 30, 2017, 07:40:14 PM
In answer to "Why else would you be feeding prisoners" are you assuming that players always want to recruit prisoners? I often sell prisoners who offer traits the colony doesnt need or have a 99% difficulty in recruiting, as the silver and slight negative mood buff to the colony outweighs keeping the prisoners. So why would I be wasting lavish meals on prisoners I intend to sell? Players may also be even more evil and use prisoners as live organ/limb donors when colonists get injured, so again why waste the best meals on them?
Why waste meals on those at all? ;3 Prisoners I intend to sell or use for organs I give anesthetics and put in cryptosleep caskets. The cryptosleep sickness goes over pretty quickly, so if I take the pawns to be sold out of the caskets shortly after a slaver enters orbit I got enough time to wait for them to recover before selling them.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: corestandeven on November 02, 2017, 02:08:26 PM
In answer to "Why else would you be feeding prisoners" are you assuming that players always want to recruit prisoners? I often sell prisoners who offer traits the colony doesnt need or have a 99% difficulty in recruiting, as the silver and slight negative mood buff to the colony outweighs keeping the prisoners. So why would I be wasting lavish meals on prisoners I intend to sell? Players may also be even more evil and use prisoners as live organ/limb donors when colonists get injured, so again why waste the best meals on them?
Why waste meals on those at all? ;3 Prisoners I intend to sell or use for organs I give anesthetics and put in cryptosleep caskets. The cryptosleep sickness goes over pretty quickly, so if I take the pawns to be sold out of the caskets shortly after a slaver enters orbit I got enough time to wait for them to recover before selling them.

Hadn't thought of that tactic. If i have a spare cyropod I might do that, especially if food rations are low.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: The Nickman on November 02, 2017, 08:26:11 PM
I don't understand this thread at all.  If you're trying to recruit a prisoner, you want them to have the best food and be as comfortable as possible so they recruit faster.  If you don't want to recruit them, and are just harvesting their organs or selling them or whatever, then uncheck "gets food" and build them a nutrient paste dispenser, as has been suggested over and over in this thread.

Otherwise, what's the problem??
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Vlad0mi3r on November 03, 2017, 10:53:22 AM
Nutrient paste dispenser. That is all.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Limdood on November 03, 2017, 03:10:41 PM
Nutrient paste dispenser. That is all.
doesn't fix the problem if the prisoner is unconscious due to pain or surgery, at which point best meals are hauled.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Canute on November 03, 2017, 03:24:00 PM
Like The Nickman mention before
uncheck "gets food" !
The prisoner won't die that fast. He will wake up long before he would die from malnutration.
Except he is incap. and never would leave the bed.

Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: NemesisN on November 03, 2017, 04:30:32 PM
Nutrient paste dispenser. That is all.
doesn't fix the problem if the prisoner is unconscious due to pain or surgery, at which point best meals are hauled.

also I need them all to have shared room = fights and more chance of prison break

I rather have them in individual cells
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on November 03, 2017, 10:54:45 PM
Nutrient paste dispenser. That is all.
doesn't fix the problem if the prisoner is unconscious due to pain or surgery, at which point best meals are hauled.

also I need them all to have shared room = fights and more chance of prison break

I rather have them in individual cells

Yes, me too. I won't bother to make a NPD for each cell. Although I get prison breaks even if they are not together.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: corestandeven on November 04, 2017, 05:36:39 AM
I don't understand this thread at all.  If you're trying to recruit a prisoner, you want them to have the best food and be as comfortable as possible so they recruit faster.  If you don't want to recruit them, and are just harvesting their organs or selling them or whatever, then uncheck "gets food" and build them a nutrient paste dispenser, as has been suggested over and over in this thread.

Otherwise, what's the problem??
People see no problem with limiting the quality of medical care individual prisoners receive (why waste the best medical care on prisoners when colonists take priority) but for some reason cannot see why the same principle might apply when it comes to food quality. The case and reasons have already been stated above.

Yes ticking 'no food' and having a nutrient dispenser works for some prisoner situations but not all. I may want to charm one prisoner in my cell with skills i want for my colony, so I will treat him well, but want to sell another prisoner in the same cell who has poor skills and I do not want to waste my best food on. Yes I suppose I could build separate prison cells, having one cell with a nutrient dispenser, ticking prisoners who I do not care about as having no food, hoping pawns will fill up the dispenser, and building a better cell without this, but a simple tick box (just as with medical care) is just better. Adding this would help with some players whose playstyle is clearly different to your own.

As an aside, I really don't understand why certain people on these forums constantly oppose suggestions just because they wouldn't use the suggestion themselves. I totally get that stance it if a feature being suggested would impact or drastically change everyone's game style. But if being able to limit meal quality was added then the default setting undoubtedly would be set to highest by default, so it wouldn't even affect those who say they see no problem. [Edit - Alternatively you could add a tick box that was 'prioritize best quality food' (default setting), 'prioritize lowest quality food', or 'gets no food', then everyone is happy.]
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on November 05, 2017, 10:15:03 AM
Because of not having a "Meal selection bar", it is also difficult to haul "Packaged survival meals" for future expeditions... without the colonists consuming them against the player's will (there's enough meals at the main freezer).
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: corestandeven on November 05, 2017, 12:27:58 PM
Because of not having a "Meal selection bar", it is also difficult to haul "Packaged survival meals" for future expeditions... without the colonists consuming them against the player's will (there's enough meals at the main freezer).
Agree, however there is a fix to that current problem. Just mass select all the Packaged Meals in your storage area and 'Forbid' them. Colonists will not eat them, nor will they be given to prisoners, and you can still select them when forming your caravans.
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Snafu_RW on November 05, 2017, 03:49:09 PM
Agree, however there is a fix to that current problem. Just mass select all the Packaged Meals in your storage area and 'Forbid' them. Colonists will not eat them, nor will they be given to prisoners, and you can still select them when forming your caravans.
Either that or zone your food storage area so the PSM/MREs are stored at the back, furthest away from entrance: colonists will prefer pathing to the nearest applicable food
Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Match on November 05, 2017, 11:27:27 PM
I dont know if this is still possible, but a while ago I would have a nutrient paste dispenser in the prison area, with the storage in my cold fridge. After setting do not feed prisoners and the food bins for the NPD at critical. They would feed themselves... this only works until prisoners get injured

Title: Re: Stop hauling Lavish meal to prisoners !
Post by: Yoshida Keiji on November 06, 2017, 02:20:01 AM
Because of not having a "Meal selection bar", it is also difficult to haul "Packaged survival meals" for future expeditions... without the colonists consuming them against the player's will (there's enough meals at the main freezer).
Agree, however there is a fix to that current problem. Just mass select all the Packaged Meals in your storage area and 'Forbid' them. Colonists will not eat them, nor will they be given to prisoners, and you can still select them when forming your caravans.

No, I just fought a Siege and they had 32 PSM, however when I sent 3 pawns to pick them back to my base, I lost 3 units as the haulers grabbed them, leaving only 29 PSM. While if I could manually assign them not to eat PSM, I would still be keeping all 32 units. And if your some reason you have to move them to another location (tornado for example), you still risk losing some again.