Endless play thoughts?

[HattoriHanzo]

In my opinion the game is so much like Gnomoria in many ways, that it should be like it in a couple more.

- AI scaling should be tuneable when creating a new colony. Gnomoria has some options there like:
a) Enemy army size
b) Enemy army strength
c) rate of attacks
These could be variables scaling from 0% (turned off) to 200% (double the amount of what would be normal for the chosen difficulty level). Then you could turn the growing of enemy groups to a "normal" level for  the endless "sandbox" mode, so the groups of pirates are not like: "1 pirate, than 4 pirates, than 10 and then 25" and more like: "1 pirate, than 2, than another 2, than maybe 4, another 4, than 5" and so on.

- stockpiling: seriously, you didn't thought of containers? Look at your home, don't you have closets? Cupboards? Fridges? Add those stuff please! Also barrels and chests should be added

- ressources: a complex way would be adding several z-floors. Than you could mine and find more stuff to go on building. Furthermore you could be more creative in building stuff. I love that in Gnomoria! A more easy way to fix the problem would be traders selling cheap steel/stone and buying food/clothes and stuff. Maybe as a temporary solution until z-levels are added? I know that must be hell of a work

Furthermore, add craftable armor and ranged weapons! It's idiotic that i can craft a golden gladius and some feaked out alien clothing with high resist but no armor and rifles.

[stefanstr]

Traders will take almost anything so a useful rubbish (rock/metal/whatever) removal method is to make trade goods out of it and sell it to traders. You can even sell whole containers and their contents.

This. In RimWorld, the traders are too poor and too rare. I think you should make it much easier to trade off your stuff (my suggestion: allow for trading with factions), and probably change the value of gold and silver in the process (with the current prices, we would be swimming in silver if we were able to sell everything easily).

That one simple change would solve the item creep for me.

[aemeyer]

As a veteran (meaning I've died a lot) Dwarf Fortress player, I too back the storage containers (and hopefully fridges in the future) and a few more "luxuries" in the later game, like minigun and rocket turrets, ideas.



Of course, I also still want Z axis digging, but I'll get over it. Or wait for a mod

[nashable]

Endless play is a goal, but it's quite an ambitious one. It's sort of a "draining the swamp" kind of problem. Each time you lower the water level of crappiness just a tiny bit, some new problem is poking up and needs dealing with.

I'm curious if there are any DF experts here - how does that game handle issues with too many items in the base after a very long period of time? Does it just have more space to store things because it's 3D?

I'm a long time DF player who has recently tried Rimworld. One of the first things I thought was "what are the long term play options" and then saw this thread.

From a design POV you have the following differences in DF for item bloat:

• Containers - Already covered extensively in this thread
• Additional sub-systems - You have more systems in which to craft, for example DF makes you craft ammo and drinks. Having this in the Rimworld economy would up the amount of consumables
• More reagents in crafting - In addition to above, DF typically involves more reagents in it's crafting
• Trading - As DF moves at a quicker pace (i.e. weeks/seasons vs. days/months) it opens up regular trading partners and the game is expanding its political/diplomatic options via the trading visitors. This allows the player's inventory to be optimized (e.g remove rock, add food), also the economy is full barter economy. Local factions could play into this and could create an awesome interactive economy if modeled correctly
• Item degradation - DF generally focuses this on clothing but having this in the game would allow for discreet economy systems such as "repairing" items or full replacements creating a reagent sink.

To address the OP's topic, I like RimWorld's escape objective but would add the following:

• Make the resources for ship components very rare on a planet
• Allow for the construction of a "sci-fi wagon" that allows a colony to store a large amount of resources and move to a new site
• Not everyone would want to go and not everything would fit on the wagon, hard choices would need to be made for the next site
• Building a ship would require several embarks, at different locations, to obtain all the components required to escape

One other thing I feel the game suffers from is the high ratio of actions to population. I feel I need just as much wood in DF vs Rimworld but I only have one wood cutter vs. a potential army of them in DF. I'd recommend adding the ability to build basic droids (who either improve skills very slowly or not at all) that could handle tasks such as cleaning or hauling etc.

[Macgyver16502]

I would appreciate the option of endless play...
Here are my 2 cents...
Couldn't we just eliminate the barter for silver aspect?
     Let the colonists get and trade virtual currency. (We have bit coins now - there could be a version of that in Rimworld...)
As an addon to that thought - perhaps your comm console can only store and maintain a set number of Trade-Coins, but you only have access to the Trade-Coins of the comm consoles that are in use. And, of course, if the comm console with 100,000 Trade-Coins is destroyed in a raid... bye bye Trade-Coins.
     Also, I think traders should be willing to buy anything. But if the item is not their specialty they will only pay 50% of value that would be paid by a trader that does specialize in that item.
     How about a capability to pay a trader for a return visit in a specified amount of time? ("We'll give you 10,000 Trade-Coins if you agree to come back in 6 months.") With the amount required going down with greater time interval.
     I could also agree with degrading equipment over time, as long as there is a way to offset/repair the damage. Maybe a new workbench type? And determine the amount of repair and material use by a related skill... For example: Bob starts repairing an M-16 with 46 points of degradation, Bob's shooting skill is 12 so he will need 3 Hours and 50 Minutes to do the repair and will use 1 of something (oil? cleaner?) each hour he works at it. So, lower skill takes longer and uses more material.

[Vexare]

I'm a long time DF player who has recently tried Rimworld. One of the first things I thought was "what are the long term play options" and then saw this thread.

From a design POV you have the following differences in DF for item bloat:

• Containers - Already covered extensively in this thread
• Additional sub-systems - You have more systems in which to craft, for example DF makes you craft ammo and drinks. Having this in the Rimworld economy would up the amount of consumables
• More reagents in crafting - In addition to above, DF typically involves more reagents in it's crafting
• Trading - As DF moves at a quicker pace (i.e. weeks/seasons vs. days/months) it opens up regular trading partners and the game is expanding its political/diplomatic options via the trading visitors. This allows the player's inventory to be optimized (e.g remove rock, add food), also the economy is full barter economy. Local factions could play into this and could create an awesome interactive economy if modeled correctly
• Item degradation - DF generally focuses this on clothing but having this in the game would allow for discreet economy systems such as "repairing" items or full replacements creating a reagent sink.

To address the OP's topic, I like RimWorld's escape objective but would add the following:

• Make the resources for ship components very rare on a planet
• Allow for the construction of a "sci-fi wagon" that allows a colony to store a large amount of resources and move to a new site
• Not everyone would want to go and not everything would fit on the wagon, hard choices would need to be made for the next site
• Building a ship would require several embarks, at different locations, to obtain all the components required to escape

One other thing I feel the game suffers from is the high ratio of actions to population. I feel I need just as much wood in DF vs Rimworld but I only have one wood cutter vs. a potential army of them in DF. I'd recommend adding the ability to build basic droids (who either improve skills very slowly or not at all) that could handle tasks such as cleaning or hauling etc.

Wow this post is so perfectly succint I had to quote the whole thing for props. Please keep posting ideas because you have good things to say.

Someone posted a similar suggestion to yours about the 'sci fi wagon' or some method to relocate your colony elsewhere on the same world and basically start over again with a new undeveloped area but in their scenario you were just moving on and starting a new colony while still tied to the old one (for trading and communication) as a way to continue the same game. I think I like your idea too that by carrying with you the goods you are going to use to build your ship, you've set up a way to relocate with less bloat and new resources but not lose everything you had from the first one.

I really like this idea and it adds a layer of depth to the overall 'world' rather than just the small area you've landed in.

I also like your idea of neighboring colonies trading to reduce too much clutter and to stimulate more economy options. I'm sure it's been mentioned a lot in suggestion topics that trading with neighboring friendly factions just makes sense with the way the game currently plays. All those 'visits' from weirdly named colonies might have a better purpose if you knew you could trade with them when they visited.

The more I play my longest surviving colony in Rimworld, the more I want it to be permanent. My tiny survivors have worked really hard to build a lasting and viable fortress and after their first year - it's grown to be "home." I don't really like the prospect of the attacks just getting bigger and worse until the game just can't handle processing all that anymore which seems to be what I'm reading is the main problem with older / larger saved games right now.

I do realize there will come a time when I've 'done it all' and built as much as I can and have massive stockpiles everywhere and not much else to do but fighting endless waves of enemies (not fun). That's when you're supposed to throw in the towel and take off in your spaceship? Seems like such a limited outlook IMO. With as much character and depth as the story has - seems to me it should just go on and on... and there's a couple of ways that could happen in endless play:

1. Expanding the colony into an actual city colony rather than small group colony. More options to 'adopt' or 'recruit' colonists either from neighboring clans or passing colonist starships with colonists who are looking for a home rather than just crashing on your turf.

2. Trade networks with neighbors and spacers that results in faction disputes and politics (when one is at war with another you'll have to make hard choices about trading with them and upsetting your neighbors in doing so).

3. Reproduction. Yeah I've been reading on this and it seems to be a feature most fans of the game are shying away from and is probably a coding nightmare for Tynan but I'd love to see the ability for my colonists to get together and have kids somewhere after that initial period of time where everyone's just fighting to survive. My colony just passed it's first year mark and is pretty secure but lacks potential new colonists. I could definitely see at least two of my colonists with compatible traits and personalities getting together and having a kid now that things are safer. Maybe a goal would have to be reached for base security before you could be permitted to reproduce? Time is sped up in the game (14 days per month) so why not speed up the process of reproduction? Babies could only take a few months to gestate (advanced gestational technology or vat grown hehe) and with the right research could grow into adults in less time too. A child can still do work but it would be less dangerous type jobs (cutting grass and hauling haha).

If I had these things - I could definitely play the game for a lot longer because I would have new goals for my colonists, not just "getting off the rock" as is the current idea from game start.

While yes, some colonists may definitely want to leave (that could be a whole new option for them) based on their adulthood career, many might enjoy staying behind and being a proper settlement. For example: A "settler" is obviously just that - so why would they want to up and leave after spending 1-2 years surviving there? A midworld chef on the other hand might opt to leave because they have big ambitions to open another restaurant in more popular sectors of the galaxy than this backwater world you've been stuck on. Basing the 'chance' of your colony's existence becoming permanent could be factored by the thoughts and goals of your actual survivors.

TLDR: Obviously brevity is not one of my strong suits so if this was too long, just read the nice short post from nashable I quoted instead.

[milon]

^ Nashable, actually.    And definitely +1 to his post!!

[Vexare]

^ Nashable, actually.    And definitely +1 to his post!!

Thanks, I realized I credited the wrong post but quoted the right one. Fixed!

[CheeseGromit]

One other thing I feel the game suffers from is the high ratio of actions to population. I feel I need just as much wood in DF vs Rimworld but I only have one wood cutter vs. a potential army of them in DF.

This is somthing I find to be more of an early game problem. I only have a smallish colony of 6 people but I'm already running into idle colonists. Difficulty obviously impacts this with the more attacks resulting in more 'clean-up'.

[nashable]

Thanks all for the warm welcome.

One other thing I feel the game suffers from is the high ratio of actions to population. I feel I need just as much wood in DF vs Rimworld but I only have one wood cutter vs. a potential army of them in DF.

This is somthing I find to be more of an early game problem. I only have a smallish colony of 6 people but I'm already running into idle colonists. Difficulty obviously impacts this with the more attacks resulting in more 'clean-up'.

My experience is based on Challenge where there always seems to be busy work for the colonists combined with a high(er) mortality rate. I really enjoy the fact that I'm fighting to keep my colony alive and the population will go down at times. I don't want this game to be a clone of DF, but I would say from a high-level view, one of the cool things about the survival sim genre is that things you (as the player) had to do manually becomes industry driven/automated. The sense of achievement where your colony goes from handful of people digging around to a powerful self-sufficient settlement which frees you up to deal with the strategic elements.

I don't think there needs to be hundreds of actors added to the game but machines that allow you to do things more efficiently (e.g. fire fighting equiptment, cleaning droids, crop harvesters etc.) allow you to tackle more complex problems.

You'll see this in the DF community where players will take on great projects such as filling caverns with magma or creating traps for invading armies etc. Rimworld needs its own flavor of this IMHO beyond the building the ship and leaving.

Just my 2 silver

[stefanstr]

Allow for the construction of a "sci-fi wagon" that allows a colony to store a large amount of resources and move to a new site

This. A hundred times this. Tynan, please make this happen.

[akiceabear]

To address the OP's topic, I like RimWorld's escape objective but would add the following:

• Make the resources for ship components very rare on a planet
• Allow for the construction of a "sci-fi wagon" that allows a colony to store a large amount of resources and move to a new site
• Not everyone would want to go and not everything would fit on the wagon, hard choices would need to be made for the next site
• Building a ship would require several embarks, at different locations, to obtain all the components required to escape

+1000 to everything in nashable's post, but especially this set of suggestions.

This sounds like a great way to extend the longevity of the game without requiring a huge overhaul or new systems added beyond the one that allows transition to a neighboring (or within range) square. It could also create a ripe area for development/research - threat scouting and geological surveying in potential new areas of the map. And new story generation - what if those you left behind start to raid your new colony? How does that impact on your colony's social cohesion. Great possibilities.

[nashable]

[...] And new story generation - what if those you left behind start to raid your new colony? How does that impact on your colony's social cohesion. Great possibilities.

To expand on the idea even more. Each colonist could have their own end-game goal. The original three colonists you get want to "get home" while others may just want to "settle down" and both types will expect to see progress being made towards their goals (see below for more ideas). Others may not have a strong conviction and could be influenced by talking to colonists of either view.

Then when it came time to leave a player would have a better understanding of who would be willing to leave and would who want to stay. You could also set it up so a player could play both colonies, or choose if they send people away in the wagon/ship and keep playing the home colony vs. starting a new colony.

Bonus lore/goal ideas: The Mechanoids are out to destroy the Human race. The original group of colonists have intel on the Mechanoids and that's why they are desperate to return back to Earth. The Mechanoids are the ones that destroy the starting ship and move on thinking they've killed everyone but come back later when they realize their mistake. Trading ships are AI controlled so colonists can't ride along with them. Quick breakdown of some colonist goals:

• X wants to return home (Build Ship, fly home)
• X want to build a Psychic Weapon (Build Beacon, then Defend the Beacon over an increasing waves of Mechanoid Assaults, win after Y waves)
• X wants to explore the universe (Build Ship or Wagon, embark at new colony/planet)
• X wants to settle down (Increase environment rating of colony)
• X wants the colony recognized as a Outpost/City (Specific building requirements, population above Y)

[milon]

^ Hmm, that last point makes me think.  What if a Win Condition / Endless Play Goal was to convert the Rim World itself into a civilized trading planet?  For example, the player might have to:
- "tame" the planet (make all factions friendly)
- deal with the mechs with FINALITY (kill them all!)
- explore & colonize the planet (build a certain number of successful colonies)
- build a giant city that meets specific criteria (ie. population minimum)
- build a space port
- live a certain amount of time (to let word get out and traders come back)

[nikow]

I usualy play as long as i can. I like deal with a lot of enemies, and i have always one or two persons with molotov coctails, who are buring down crap, which left after wave. Only thing i want see is ability to play new colony using old colonists, because when things go wrong, i usualy start my ship and leaving.

Main parts of my colony are deep in mountains, i have a lot of covers, so usualy enemies are reaching deep inside my colony, but… They are retreating, because They spend too much time there and They are starting starving.

Childrens and ability to get some stuff and go away to other places will be great for endless game.