Merging Construction and Repair work types - should I do it?

[Wastelander]

I would vote no...

The only time repair is really vital for me is right after a raid, when my front gate / killbox is all messed up. I use the manual priority setting and I like to have a few colonists who have repair as their highest priority labor. Typically there's nothing to repair, but right after a raid they're quick about getting everything back into working order.

[DNK]

AYE!

If you do it, you might as well merge cutting/growing as well (aren't they basically two forms of harvesting anyway?).

One thing I like over DF in this game is the simplicity in jobs. In Dwarf Therapist, I have to handle, what is it - 30 jobs? It's ridiculous and needless micro. I think repair (and cutting) are two further jobs that could be fairly painlessly be merged.

But we need something in return for our willing obedience to your simplifying dictates:
A way to suspend constructions.

[b0rsuk]

Cutting trees is more like mining than growing. You go into a place and spend a lot of time there. Similarities don't end there. Cutting trees and mining are done to clear an area for construction. They are also used to harvest resources. Someone who cuts trees or mines doesn't need to move very fast, if there's a hauler nearby. But slow speed is a significant hindrance for a planter.

[rexx1888]

on the note of merging jobs, i wouldnt mind seeing something that allows colonists to clean as they go. they dont have to be good at it, but something would be helpful(for instance, you have to be a pretty terrible person to just walk past a patch of puke and not do anything about it)

[tommytom]

I like the idea of merging, but the consequences are probably not worth the saved screen space or clicks.

I always set my good constructors to the same levels and let everyone repair.

However, if they are combined and repairs don't take priority, you could have a problem trying to get repairs done if you are building a gigantic expansion to your base.

Another way to solve this, though, would be to allow for pausing constructions without having to cancel them and put all the blueprints down again. There is already a need for this even without merging them.

[DNK]

Cutting trees is more like mining than growing. You go into a place and spend a lot of time there. Similarities don't end there. Cutting trees and mining are done to clear an area for construction. They are also used to harvest resources. Someone who cuts trees or mines doesn't need to move very fast, if there's a hauler nearby. But slow speed is a significant hindrance for a planter.

You have convinced me. Also they both use their arms similarly, they're almost the same motion.

[deslona]

Why not go a step further? And merge Growing with plant cutting [potentially animal husbandry] (Farming)? Merge crafting with art (crafts)?

A player could always have the choice to expand on the Construction (plants or crafts) section;
- Building
- Repairing
And set those priorities individually.
Crafts could be, at player discretion be expanded to do individual crafts such as arts or tailoring or weapon crafting, solving issues about who does what with generalized (crafting) jobs.

Edit: I voted 'no'. Because I don't think the described merge would solve anything gameplay wise.

[Woyzeck]

I think that Growing and Cutting should be combined as well.

I must agree with this point. Cutting seems to be become a near-useless category midgame

One is skilled labor, one is dumb labor. Haulers/cleaners/fighters, colonists with trait limitations, etc. can still be doing something valuable with cutting as a separate job. Merge the two and now you're stuck with high-value labor (growing) competing with a same-category sub-task. Make the growing sub-task higher priority by default, you say? Congratulations, now the low-skill but often still important job clearing territory and/or harvesting wood isn't getting done at all because a bunch of agriculturally retarded laborers who could have made themselves useful elsewhere are very slowly planting potatoes.

[Darkhymn]

-snip-

It's quite the opposite - more sophisticated automation lets you to do away with micromanaging.

I think Crafting category could be split into more stuff. Things currently falling into crafting:
- smithing
- tailoring
- stonecutting
- smelting
- machining

Smithing and tailoring is creating new items for colonists to use. Stonecutting is making construction materials, just like smelting and machining. How about this split:
Crafting: smithing+tailoring
Processing/Recycling: stonecutting+smelting+machining

There are other similarities.
Smithing and tailoring benefit from skill level, and train Crafting skill. They often make things for sale. Smithing and tailoring is mostly sitting at the table and using tools.
Stonecutting, smelting, machining don't increase Crafting skill (in alpha9), and I think they don't benefit from it. These actions tend to involve a lot of fetching materials and hauling produce to a stockpile.

I actually strongly support this point. It has been really bothering me that my craftspeople need to be micromanaged so that my massively skilled clothes-maker isn't sitting around smelting slag while some derp with 2 crafting on priority 4 is wasting my devilstrand on shoddy gear. A separation of these activities into distinct categories (or at very least a skill lock) would make crafting a much less frustrating microfest in the long term.

[Kegereneku]

If we are afraid of creating too many tasks, maybe we could replace some by "Menial Task" that don't require skills, as described in character's background ?

Obviously Repair wouldn't be one (too complex), but "controlling" (as switching light) and "cutting" ? for now they sure do, we could even fit all that into "hauling" since its usually implied. (it kind of get on my nerve when someone "can't haul" for no apparent reason)

Cleaning could fit too, but for now I fear its too low priority to ever be done if you don't make it someone's priority.

[Mikhail Reign]

I think the best way to go it what keeps getting mentioned - a collapsible priority system. Expand the priority system so that some of the more technical jobs (smithing, tailoring, machining) are jobs that can be given individual priority, give some of the other skills more jobs; social could have a leader job who goes around and talks to colonists or something, and then group all the job together under broad headings that can be prioritized.

This way there is a simple way of doing it. The priority list would be smaller then it is now - with jobs like 'Menial' covering hauling, plant cutting and cleaning, and 'Building' covering construction and repairs - but the player would then be able to expand these tabs and prioritize the individual jobs if they choose to.

There are times when somethings just wont work. Its OK to have a brain damaged colonist on repair duty - he slowly makes his rounds fixing walls or conducts - but it would take forever for him to build something going back and forth between the construction site and the stockpile

[geredis]

If we are afraid of creating too many tasks, maybe we could replace some by "Menial Task" that don't require skills, as described in character's background ?

Obviously Repair wouldn't be one (too complex), but "controlling" (as switching light) and "cutting" ? for now they sure do, we could even fit all that into "hauling" since its usually implied. (it kind of get on my nerve when someone "can't haul" for no apparent reason)

Cleaning could fit too, but for now I fear its too low priority to ever be done if you don't make it someone's priority.

That could be a possible solution: Maybe have the actual priority missions be (generally speaking) the same sort of traited job-restrictions that the pawns have as personalities?

So that we have

Menial Labour
Violence
Social
Intellectual Labour
Homemaking
Medical
<Something else>

And within those you then are able to fine-tune exactly which jobs they do within the jobs:

For instance, under each category you could have:

Violence - Hunting, Butchery, Guard Duty (Like Drafting, but zone-based and like a usual job)
Social - Talking, Wardening, Bringing Food to the Incapacitated
Medical - Bandaging, Surgery, Rescuing
Intellectual Work - Research, Crafting (Everything but Stonecutting), Art
Homemaking - Cooking, Cleaning
Menial Labour - Hauling, Construction, Repair, Stonecutting, Mining

And then you rank the categories to decide what is most important, followed by ranking the individual jobs within the categories.  Sure, I suppose it's much, much, more micro-intensive, but using a mix of passion, stat numbers, and an innate importance for each job (say, cooking being more important than cleaning in Homemaking, as a rule, and Crafting over Art in Intellectual Work, things like that, at a very basic, survival-type level) you can also create an automatic priority ladder as it were like the game already has for those that don't want to micro it.  And for those that do like it, by having so many more levels of micro, you can ensure your people do EXACTLY what you want.  Those that want a mid-level amount which is closer to what already exists, you can simply re-order/prioritize the lists much as you already do in the Job Overview with those overarching categories.

[Kegereneku]

One hic, I see with your suggestion is that cooking ask for butchering ability, either we make butchering a subs-task of both or we risk getting background that keep a "cook" from butchering meat.
Though... I can imagine a Lord who accept doing the noble art of cooking but refuse to soil himself with animal carcass.

So... maybe that's not a problem. In fact, using the very term used in the Background might make it more intuitive.

ASIDE, QUESTION FOR TYNAN : Someone just unearthed this topic where the very problem was discussed, did your code changed much since then ?

To everyone else : How often do you change the overview setting ?

Me ? Not much, I only tend to give direct order when I see a priority (and I expect them to carry out said order)
To my understand the idea of such AI-colonist was precisely to negate micro-management while having a living colony, so having many -simple- option might be easier than having rigid category of task.

[Cazakatari]

After thinking about it some more and reading other feedback, I've changed my mind.  I'd rather have more control, because I remember situations where there was a particular colonist that I wanted to build but not repair.  Not often but it does happen

As others discussed I would like it very much if different jobs could be expanded into more specifics, that way it wouldn't be an information overload to new players, but also give more control to advanced players who like cutting down on the diaper changing micromanagement

[daft73]

I think the best way to go it what keeps getting mentioned - a collapsible priority system. Expand the priority system so that some of the more technical jobs (smithing, tailoring, machining) are jobs that can be given individual priority, give some of the other skills more jobs; social could have a leader job who goes around and talks to colonists or something, and then group all the job together under broad headings that can be prioritized...

I like something like this aswell. Sub-categories that collapse can clean up the ui, whilst making less button clicky-click. 
As far as which I picked for the poll, I chose nay. I like the option to keep some colonists doing 'construction' without babysitting them too much.