Is "Incapable of Hauling" really necessary?

[Headshotkill]

I think for dumb labor (hauling, cleaning, ...), it shouldn't be possible for a pawn to be incapable of doing it.
Instead I'd like to see more smaller penalties, such as people with bad backs can't haul as much, and people with cataract can clean that fast, ...

[Sola]

I don't mind if "incapable of dumb labor" is kept in.  refusal to cut trees or clean is acceptable.  My issue is that hauling is qualified as dumb labor.  They will haul materials to sculpt, craft, construct, or cook, but not for anything else.

Example:  A cook is incapable of hauling, and the kitchen says "Make fine meal: Forever".  Tons of meat in the fridge, no vegetables.  GUESS WHAT?!  A ton of berries just ripened!  The grower is over there picking hundreds of berries and leaving them outside on the ground!  The cook, alerted to the ability to make fine meals, rushes to the scene, grabs exactly 5 berries, runs through the freezer, to the kitchen to make a fine meal.  She runs back out, grabs exactly 5 more berries, then runs back to make another fine meal.  However, she will refuse to grab 75 berries while she's out there and bring them back to the kitchen/freezer to make her life easier.  No.  THAT part, she's incapable of.  However, running through the colony to grab 5 at a time?  That's just fine.

Of course, one might say "but lifting 7% of a max load isn't really hauling!", until you realize that same cook will also drag a thrumbo carcass from across the map to butcher it, but is incapable of dragging that same thrumbo carcass to the dumping stockpile, which is on the way.  Or the same cook, who is also a builder, bringing several full loads of steel to a geothermal generator to start work on that.

Incapable of hauling is simply an exceedingly powerful disability that simply isn't justified.  A person with pyrophobia is incapable of fighting fires because they break down at the sight of fire.  A person averse to violence does not make exceptions and pick up a gun when the base is under attack.  Non-haulers can haul just fine.

If a special needs child can be taught "Put your lunchbox in the red basket", a fully grown, fully functional adult in a life-or-death scenario can be taught "Bring me that wood".

[Lys]

Example:  A cook is incapable of hauling, and the kitchen says "Make fine meal: Forever".  Tons of meat in the fridge, no vegetables.  GUESS WHAT?!  A ton of berries just ripened!  The grower is over there picking hundreds of berries and leaving them outside on the ground!  The cook, alerted to the ability to make fine meals, rushes to the scene, grabs exactly 5 berries, runs through the freezer, to the kitchen to make a fine meal.  She runs back out, grabs exactly 5 more berries, then runs back to make another fine meal.  However, she will refuse to grab 75 berries while she's out there and bring them back to the kitchen/freezer to make her life easier.

I agree with you that this is kinda incomprehensive. On a slightly related note it would also be very nice for crafting jobs, if there are more than 1 outstanding types of this job to do, that the crafters would carry an appropriate amount of raw materials in one go. So, if there are 10 simple meals left to make, the crafter doesnt go into the freezer for each one to grab 10 potatoes, but instead as much as he can carry (68?) the first time, and then when he's done processing this he goes back into the freezer to grab the remaining (32?) potatoes. (Combine with "drop on floor" instead of "take to best stockpile").

[Thyme]

The last winner of Germanys next Topmodel will not ruin her nails with hauling rusty steel around. See Mikhail Reigns post #10 for a more mundane example. Please don't forget that the whole "incapable of" concept makes sense lore wise. The patient and test subject backstories give incapable of social, make sense and yet I don't see threads popping up where people complain about it. Knowing that hauling is needed for most pawns (while the most common "incapable of" seems to be dumb laber), I still suggest to step up your game.

@Sola: I once used my incapable of hauling guy to do all the hunting. When I feel like it, I draft my pyromaniacs and place them next to tiles on fire to make them help with the firefighting (they don't love fire that much). However, if incapable of hauling would affect all job types where some item transfer is needed, it would render the affected pawns from limited to effectively useless.

@Lys: this is an issue, but would require fancy AI rewriting to come by. It won't happen, if at all, for quite a while. What I do in the meantime: Place stockpiles with ingredients next to stove (preferable with RimFridge and Hauling Hysteresis), fill the remainder of the kitchen with a stockpile with no allowed items. Use Crafting Hysteresis to make your cooks stay for more than one meal in the kitchen. Sorry for the mod spam, I'll go and grow some potatoes.

[cultist]

Incapable of hauling is fine, the problem is that too many backgrounds give this penalty. Reduce the frequency a bit and everything should be good.

[pfhorrest]

As Sola notes, incapability of hauling should make that pawn also incapable of related jobs requiring items to be hauled.

That means, hunting is allowed but the carcass must be picked up by someone else.
Cooking would be disabled.
Crafting would be disabled.
Medical operations involving the installation of prosthetics would be disabled (hauling wood or prosthetics) but the removal of organs would be fine as the doctor can just drop the organ on the ground.
Rescuing a colonist or an animal would be disabled.
Carrying someone to a cryptosleep casket would be disabled.
Construction would be disabled.

[Headshotkill]

As Sola notes, incapability of hauling should make that pawn also incapable of related jobs requiring items to be hauled.

That means, hunting is allowed but the carcass must be picked up by someone else.
Cooking would be disabled.
Crafting would be disabled.
Medical operations involving the installation of prosthetics would be disabled (hauling wood or prosthetics) but the removal of organs would be fine as the doctor can just drop the organ on the ground.
Rescuing a colonist or an animal would be disabled.
Carrying someone to a cryptosleep casket would be disabled.
Construction would be disabled.

At this point I'd kill them on side if they joined my colony.

[LordMunchkin]

Once you get a hoard of hauling animals, these guys aren't so bad if they have valuable skills like crafting, cooking, and artist. The one thing that annoys me is how putting wort in a fermenting barrel is a hauling job.

[Sola]

The last winner of Germanys next Topmodel will not ruin her nails with hauling rusty steel around.

She's presently in Germany, getting paid to be a model.  If she was a lone survivor in RimWorld, she might consider the merits of dirtying her nails to move food to a refrigerator to keep it from rotting.

I still suggest to step up your game.

This sort of comment is simply uncalled for, friend.  I'm trying to explain the incongruity of "incapable of hauling", not to compare e-peens on who plays the harder difficulty.

[Bozobub]

As Sola notes, incapability of hauling should make that pawn also incapable of related jobs requiring items to be hauled.

That means, hunting is allowed but the carcass must be picked up by someone else.
Cooking would be disabled.

I agree with the rest, but this already happens, at least in A15.

[Anomaly]

With the exception of physical disabilities and exceptional past trauma no one should be incapable of doing any kind of dumb labor  (you want to eat, you haul the ore).   There should certainly be dislikes or truly hates traits that produce big mood penalties and perhaps a botched job when a colonist is forced to do work they don't like but we should be able to force them to work.

In addition, hardship grows character, and some colonists could gradually grow to accept work they don't like the more they do it.  Skills increase as they are practiced; it could be fun to watch our colonists grow as people as well.  Of course not everything learned in such a harsh situation is good but thats for another topic.

Other colonists wouldn't like slackers at all so there could be some peer pressure at play. Perhaps this is a chance for social skills to be more valuable.

[LordMunchkin]

With the exception of physical disabilities and exceptional past trauma no one should be incapable of doing any kind of dumb labor  (you want to eat, you haul the ore).   There should certainly be dislikes or truly hates traits that produce big mood penalties and perhaps a botched job when a colonist is forced to do work they don't like but we should be able to force them to work.

In addition, hardship grows character, and some colonists could gradually grow to accept work they don't like the more they do it.  Skills increase as they are practiced; it could be fun to watch our colonists grow as people as well.  Of course not everything learned in such a harsh situation is good but thats for another topic.

Other colonists wouldn't like slackers at all so there could be some peer pressure at play. Perhaps this is a chance for social skills to be more valuable.

I agree with this so much. Incapable should be replaced with dislike traits that give negative thoughts for doing the work the pawns dislike. That way, for survival situations, where the pawn has low expectations, they could do jobs they hated without having a shit fit. However, once things got better (wealth increase), you wouldn't be able get them to the things they dislike regularly without a big mood penalty.

[Sola]

I don't want a huge overhaul of the system.  Completely removing inability to do tasks is not what I'm going for.

From a rules standpoint, "incapable of hauling" is bad, because they are clearly capable of hauling when it comes to their regular jobs.
From an immersion standpoint, "incapable of hauling" is bad, because it's difficult to believe someone wouldn't lift a rock to ensure the survival of their colony if they are both healthy and aware of the situation they're in.

Rather than change the rules of the game to make non-haulers able to operate (other people bring food to stove, which the non-hauling cook then crafts.  Other people haul materials to blueprints, which the constructor then builds, etc.), I'd simply prefer that dumb labor be changed in some way.
-Remove hauling from dumb labor. (only plantcut and cleaning)
-Replace hauling in dumb labor. (plantcut, cleaning, growing/mining/warden)

[O Negative]

For what it's worth, Sola...

I totally get where you're coming from. Nobody should be "incapable of hauling" unless they have actual physical disabilities (manipulation = 0%).

Doesn't require a huge overhaul. Even the snobbiest of individuals are capable of picking things up, and placing them somewhere else.

I think part of the problem with the argument, though, lies with some of the jobs handled by hauling... For instance, burying dead bodies, burning apparel, etc.

[Mitz]

there used to be a mod where any colonist could clean and haul, but they now refuse to update the mod.
basically every mod like that mod has been updated, but i still can't get that mod to get my pawns to force clean and haul!
my non-computer--wise friends also don't get this game. Yes, i'm a lazy arse in real life, but if i was stranded on a planet like rimworld's normal planets with a few other people, i'd get my arse moving in top gear doing whatever i can!
incapabilities should do things, like for doctoring, always failing catastrophically; crafting, always getting awful quality; animal handling, have a huge chance to piss off a animal you are trying to tame (turning manhunter) or piss off your pet making the pet attack once; with cooking they have a 100% chance to do a "hard food poisoning" which in a hour or two needs to be treated or they'll get some really hard to cure disease because you didn't even cook the raw food...
that's my 2 cents on incapabilities!