Suggestion for mood : Short and long term.

[mumblemumble]

I got this idea after playing a bunch of xcom, and had an idea : What if mood was 2 things : short, and long term?

Long term could be more or less as it is now, slow to change, a culmination of factors determining ones LONG TERM mental health

And a new one : short term.

Basicallys someones nerve in any given situation, raised by many factors, and lowered by other, but in more IMMEDIATE ways. Fed, clean, unharmed? nerve is good! hungry, bleeding, in combat? Nerve lowers. Just killed an enemy? Nerve goes up! ally killed? Nerve down.

In addition, starting nerve is based  upon ones long term mental health.

so a guy whos canabalizing, had his wife die, and is sleeping on the floor will be easier to crack under pressure than a person getting 3 squares a day, warm clean bed, with friends and family, with time off.

it could ALSO have unique combinations, like something RAISING nerve, but lowering mental health, or raising mental health, but lowering nerve (think someone facing their fears, and collapsing due to fear, but being a stronger person for it)

This would be real nice, and could help the mental health game being almost entirely static, right now, like a digital pet, and more like someone who its helpful to keep happy, but its not strictly needed, so much as it makes you more flexible.

You could also potentially add performance modifiers for nerve levels, which would be interesting...

And, as an added benefit, you could add XCOM esq combat panic, without someone having a long term meltdown.

This would help the reactions be more realistic, breaking from actual EVENTS, rather than just having a shitty day overall.

How I imagine it to interact, is MOST things effect nerve, providing either an ongoing hit (like "cold" or "hot" now) or a short term hit, with limited stacking (attacked, ect). But before this, total nerve is calculated by mental health, being slightly more, or slightly less, depending on the mental health of the pawn.

Mental health effects are more rare, and generally more long term effects : nothing shorter than a day, for instance, but also effected by drugs. Deaths, victories, relationships, medical stuff, all effects it.

In turn, this would also provide 2 means of breaks : psychosis / sociopathy, or similar stuff, JUST for mental health being low (stuff like self harming habits, outward aggression, ect) and actual BREAKS, from immediate stress.

This would mean getting shot at could make one hunker down, go berserk, freeze up, while they would normally be mentally well, OR, a person whos high off flake being good to go for a fight, but also a bit less controllable in smaller ways, due to fucked up mental health from drugs.

[SpaceDorf]

I think the short term mood is what is managed by the needs of a pawn.

But I noticed that most negative modifiers, even the occassional ones, have a quite long duration, compared with the good modifiers which, except for static ones, cool down a lot faster.

[mumblemumble]

You miss the point : if someone is having an amazing life otherwise, the most horrific, hour long experience WILL NOT break them. Death, blood, surgery to remove organs, ect, all of them WILL NOT PHASE THEM.

Meanwhile people in stressful, but not intense situations will go crazy and shoot people, when really they would more likely binge drink in reality.

Theres no distinguishing between "short term" stress, and long term stress, and needs only effect the current "long term stress" of someone.

my idea would fix 1 : people being unphazed by anything, in high enough mood, for as long as the mood being drained will last

and 2 : people under life stresses going berserk far too easy.

It would also make more possible break states : Snap (nerve depleted) Snap mentally unwell (snap during mentally unwell state) Snap mentally ill (snapping when mentally ill) mentally unwell (very low level, nearly painless break, but still causes problems) mentally ill (more severe break, not as extreme as snap, but warped in decisions)

[SpaceDorf]

I think I got your point the first time around.

What you describe is an additional bar you call nerve.

In essence it works the same way as mood does, only that the max number of points increase or decrease over time in accordance to the general stat of the mood bar and the quality with which the needs of the pawn are fullfilled.

So when shit happens first the points of the nerve bar decrease in accordance to the severity of the incident. The larger the nerve .. the longer it takes.
Constantly bad circumstances give a smaller amount of nerve ..

-------

what I meant is, that this is allready reflected in some way in the needs :
hunger, sleep, and so on .. if those bars are full negative effects have a lesser hold
over the pawns than not ..

I did not comment directly on the nerve bar .. I just compared.

The next thing was : I noticed that negative mood modifiers have a longer duration than positive ones.
Which again has nothing to do with the nerve bar .. but is a short answer to why pawns freak out so often .. they forget the good things to fast ..


I propably should have said something like this .. that the nerve bar could represent the accumulation of all the good buffs which should be further modified by traits. Iron Willed would work like the the Flames on Skills.  More Nerve Faster.
While weaker minded characters gain Nerve at a slower rate ..

.. I like the basics of the Idea, but can't wrap my brain around it on how to implement it properly into rimworld at the moment.

[mumblemumble]

Actually, no, I was thinking nerve hits would be INSTANTANEOUS from direct sources, while mood would be hit gradually like now

So in other words, a person who gets shot, or who get puts in pain, might snap instantly if severe enough.

Needs currently DO NOT allow a scenario for instant mental breaks from extreme trauma in an instant scenario, its always a VERY delayed reaction

Battlefield stress makes people break hours later, being cut open and then fed your dead lover, also takes a long time to break

I understand it might be hard to implement,and that is for tynan to decide ultimately.

I think things like iron willed, neurotic, ect, would effect a mix of nerve and mental health.... For instance, too smart could lower mental health, but slightly raise nerve, while iron will could buff nerve alone.

Main thing is making it so there can be instant breaks for combat or severe trauma, while not making someone batshit insane for several days on end.

It would take reworking, yes, and you would need to redo the mood system, but the idea of it sounds really cool.

For instace in x-com (what im basing it on) Fire does intense morale damage, so setting an enemy on fire runs a big risk of making them break : To the point where an incendiary grenade instantly panicks someone if it detonates under their feet.

and this is the kind of thing I'd love to see, making combat much more interesting

Besides, having small effect on nerve levels (very on edge making healing worse, a small amount of stress providing a buff to performance, and too excessive stress making it worse) would be a neat dynamic too.

[SpaceDorf]

Then I really misunderstood you.

What you meant was a Combat Morale evaluation.

[mumblemumble]

It would function as combat morale, yes, but it would be 2 stage. Ill explain this time again, hopefully more clear

MENTAL HEALTH : Raised and lowered by significant events, like deaths, relationships, breakups, medical issues, and raised long term for maintained homeostasis. Level of mental health determines the amount of nerve had for someone to work with. Low levels can also make mental illness esque effects, longer term, but much less severe "mental breaks" so long as it remains low. Also temporarily moved up and down by small events which aren't "significant" stresses (like eating off floor)

NERVE : Raised by feeling "stable", having friends, clean area, food, protection, warmth, ect. Lowered by being in hostile environment, sick, social tension, combat stress, injuries, ect. Breaks are much more severe and spontaneous than mental illness breaks, but also more situational than an overall "bad day" situation mentally unwell / ill colonists would get.


Again, idea is so, a person with very high mental health, can STILL snap due to low nerve, without the mental health being 100% decimated, and vice versa.

[Limdood]

I don't like the idea at all....specifically pertaining to your reasoning.

I want my work to keep my colonists happy and stable to be meaningful.  A moderate mood pawn stuck around bodies and wounded will still START dropping as soon as that stuff happens.  Those moodlets don't go away fast, they can still cause breaks.  That is the REASON you keep your mood high.

Yes, random events happen and its part of the appeal, but the game also has metrics under the player's control, and the player needs to be able to expect efforts put into managing those metrics to to yield appropriate results. 

[mumblemumble]

Yeah, but this means battle induced panics are not a thing, unless its just a dude getting hungry, nevermind if he gets an arm shot off.

Also, I doubt they would immediately break, but they have a much higher chance of flaking out when stuff gets grim, than a person who has more  happyness overwall.

I think you are also misunderstanding that balance would obviously need to be redone, for instance, I figure dirty rooms, and other stuff would have less severe, but still influencing effects on colonists. At the same time, an extremely happy colonist cannot witness his entire colony being blown apart, forced to canabalize his wife and kids, and still be sane for the rest of the day because his mood takes time to drain away

Its unrealistic, less dynamic, and feels rather static, and almost random with breaks. It almost feels like theres no REAL cause, but that colonists are just grumpy assholes who lash out when unhappy.