Reverse the Decision on Trees and Fertilizer Pumps...

Started by Vaperius, March 04, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

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Readd Tree Planting [Please Post to keep thread alive]

Yes
No
Yes, but please re-balance it
No, Unless he re-balances it

Vaperius

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rCdGYp3nbSUXFG4Ky96RZW1cJGt9g_6ANZZPOHyNsg/pub

This is Tynan Blog.

Two things; Fertilizer Pumps, which he removed under the pretense of a "more meaningful decision between hydroponics and soil growing" the trouble being that hydroponics in their current state are absolutely useless. They require power; which in the frequent solar exclipses and solar flares makes them nonviable in icy areas...where they are needed. Soil farming is essentially during growth periods in these places to keep gaining food; but soil can often be scare in tundra and desert biomes. Which is why fertilizer pumps were essential.

Now I am not saying add them back in; I am saying create a balanced alternative. Instead of just making the pumps;require they have either a hopper with fertilizer: AND that fertilizer is added to the game to let you make soil manually with your colonsts with a lot of work...

Moreover; today he removed tree sowing.....in favor of traders carrying trees. Trouble with this is that traders become less and less common with not guarantee of them being the trader you need and every gurantee you will need wood eventually for expansion, cheap repairs and for furniture. Don't remove trees; just make them take two or three times longer to grow and please for the love of rimworld; please at least create modules for things like this...

Instead of removing it outright; he should do what he used to do and leave mods in that add back in stuff like the fertlizer pump or tree planting....at the very least...as an option to the PLAYER and CONSUMER XD....

But still these are my complaint/suggestion and if I put this in the wrong place...oh well :P
I remain Vigilant.

CodyRex123

Dragons!

Vaperius

Quote from: CodyRex123 on March 04, 2015, 09:02:51 PM
:l Wait, he removed tree planting?
Why?

My guess is to force you to have to use rarer and scarce materials as your progress... but I don't really know....

It still not a good decision even if it makes sense. It kinda makes the game less  fun when you can't make a forest in a desert hahah or cover your tundra in teek trees :P

Still he been making a lot of decisions that have been about creating difficulty instead of making the game more fun and it been getting on my nerves a bit XD

yeah...
I remain Vigilant.

CodyRex123

Don't understand the poll...
Maybe i don't ever do either tundra or desert, but i like being able to plant trees, especially when i have woodworking mod on.... why remove planting trees and instead make it so that they grow way slower and/ or make them give less wood, i mean, if your starting to grow trees, your gonna be mass purducing them anyways because how slow they grow already.
Dragons!

REMworlder

I'm interested to see how it goes. I play in cold climates where wood is scarce. Planting trees there is a slow process, even when grown in energy-intensive heated rooms. Traders that carry wood are rare, but I love getting them.

Before we go chain ourselves to trees, let's look at some context:
QuoteRebalanced and reformatted plant ecology tunings to lengthen crop cycles and slow wild plant spread.

So Tynan's rebalancing growth of both wild and cultivated crops. Wood availability is probably going to increase on some maps. This could range from trees yielding more wood overall, yielding wood at earlier ages, additional tree types that grow differently (eg, faster), and so on. Knowing that we can't plant trees anymore is only a small part of the picture. Tynan's gone back to balancing wood use (remember the Alpha 4 sawmill?) multiple times, so this is just another pass. Not only will Tynan tweak this internally, but public testing will be all over it as well.

Plus wild tree growth will define maps more. Boreal forest is more like BORING FOREST right now, a poor-man's tundra. Jungle is disease central heatstroke land. With wild trees being more important, one of these biomes' defining features becomes more important. Which is actually pretty realistic, considering logging is a big thing for both. Meanwhile, I won't be able to spam trees across the desert and shrublands like I can now.

edit: I also don't understand this poll :P

RemingtonRyder

#5
I think there needs to be some way of encouraging re-forestation if there's no capability to sow trees.

That is, instead of the guaranteed payoff of X logs in a given amount of time, there's no guarantee of new tree growth, but you can tend to the saplings which are already starting to grow. Seems reasonable, anyway.

Vaperius

Quote from: MarvinKosh on March 04, 2015, 10:38:26 PM
I think there needs to be some way of encouraging re-forestation if there's no capability to sow trees.

That is, instead of the guaranteed payoff of X logs in a given amount of time, there's no guarantee of new tree growth, but you can tend to the saplings which are already starting to grow. Seems reasonable, anyway.

Honestly; if he made trees take longer, give less wood, require processing into planks, and then added forest fires in during "Dry seasons" like summer (or whenever it hot; meaning frequently in deserts and savannas....)

Tree planting and wood need to be BALANCED not REMOVED

That aside; he definitely should re-add it as an optional mod (tree planting)
I remain Vigilant.

lusername

Yeah, I sort of get the fertilizer pump thing, there's no such thing in real life, but no TREE planting?

Kegereneku

I think this Poll lack a neutral option.

However I have to say that I would also prefer to stay able to plant tree even if those grow too slowly to really farm them (if only because they are plant like anything else).
Also on one game I was looking into planting tree for decoration purpose.
If Tynan want to make us more dependent on Traders, I hope he increase their frequency.
At least he made so we didn't need just wood for Working bench

As for the fertilizer, I don't mind.
I did used it to great effect in a Arid Shrubland but it was pretty much OP with no interesting mechanic. I would prefer some new mechanic to make a soil not only fertile but extra-fertile (so that if at first not starving is hard it is less so latter.)
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harpo99999

as timber is useful (both as a structural material AND a furniture material) I think they SHOULD stay, or REMOVE ALL TREES AND CROPS!!!! and let the fools starve that thought that landing on a rimworld would allow them to survive

DNK

Trees should be plantable, but as a long-term thing. It should take a couple years for them to grow.

No opinion on fertilizer pumps since I never played with them.

Vaperius

Quote from: lusername on March 05, 2015, 04:41:47 AM
Yeah, I sort of get the fertilizer pump thing, there's no such thing in real life, but no TREE planting?

Well there is a machine that mixes soil and fertilizer in real life but it a wheeled machine; I mean my guess is the pump takes the soil/rock under it and slowly processes it into organic materials and then dilutes into a water solution and sprays it in its range...
I remain Vigilant.

Vaperius

Quote from: MarvinKosh on March 04, 2015, 10:38:26 PM
I think there needs to be some way of encouraging re-forestation if there's no capability to sow trees.

That is, instead of the guaranteed payoff of X logs in a given amount of time, there's no guarantee of new tree growth, but you can tend to the saplings which are already starting to grow. Seems reasonable, anyway.

The trouble with that is it relies on existing growths...which doesn't work in deserts nor in tundras: to understand something; planting trees for logging is common practice in the real world. and we are probably dealing with genetically modified trees here reengineered for hostile environments; so it not really a leap to say they can grow there...
I remain Vigilant.

Vaperius

Quote from: DNK on March 05, 2015, 10:01:43 AM
Trees should be plantable, but as a long-term thing. It should take a couple years for them to grow.

No opinion on fertilizer pumps since I never played with them.

Fert pumps cost 50 metal; need to be powered, and expand slowly overtime a radius of soil; their a little overpowered but lately Tynan finding it fun to remove things rather then rebalance them....which is the point of this entire thread.

It is getting rather...irritating; I mean we get it it's his game; but we play it too.

Anyway; I completely agree, should take a really really long time for them to grow. (120-360 Days)
I remain Vigilant.

Vaperius

Quote from: harpo99999 on March 05, 2015, 05:46:14 AM
as timber is useful (both as a structural material AND a furniture material) I think they SHOULD stay, or REMOVE ALL TREES AND CROPS!!!! and let the fools starve that thought that landing on a rimworld would allow them to survive

Heh; although I appreciate the sentiment; please post things that keep this thread running :)

Still; removing tree sowing will make wood inherently difficult in the late game to get as traders become scare which means taking food or materials out of your stock pile to get it in order to use wood for floors, furniture and cheap construction.... there are more tactful ways of doing this though :P
I remain Vigilant.