Solution for killboxes??

[mc858]

Maybe the easiest method to make killboxes more vulnerable is to give all the invaders power armor- and make them attack more persistently

right now they retreat too quickly in my opinion. Usually i get half my turrets blown up by dynamites- giving the attackers an oppurtunity to rush my base- but they always end up retreating

great ideas here- its cool that there is a mod for turrets already lol. i didnt know that

[Rahjital]

Maybe the easiest method to make killboxes more vulnerable is to give all the invaders power armor- and make them attack more persistently

I feel that this would only make killboxes more popular because it would hurt all other approaches to defense just as much.

[Listy]

The game doesn't spawn 100 at a time on extreme in my experience, I dunno what to tell you. 

You a long term player? I've seen 100+ Tribals and 80+ pirates before. Mostly this was in year 6+. It was also under older al[has here stockpiles had more wealth, so that might be an issue.

[Kaballah]

A9 and A10, nope I have not seen anything like 100 at a time.  I cheated heavily in dev mode and this was the biggest raid I was able to force (again, low tech dudes come in larger numbers and high tech raids were like 1/2 or 1/3 of this due to higher pawn point value)



Maybe it's possible you can get more invaders than this idk but if you've accumulated all that raw metal and not traded it for high quality weapons you're kind of making your doomsday scenario come true, so happy turret construction I guess?

I mean whatever's fun for you iunno 

[RickyMartini]

Kaballah, it is in fact possible to have 2 times the amount of raiders as in the pic. Without cheating.

And again I wasn't arguing that killboxes have to be built. I only said that they are balanced, which is true.

Edit: In fact, I even recorded it. I'll upload it if someone wants to see it.

[Murdo]

It all boils down to a question of enemy AI depth. As the AI progresses, maybe it will attack from the side and aim for weak links or exposed walls instead of walking through a maze to get to your most heavily-defended door. And with greater intelligence comes less need for OP numbers. But in the end, it's not an RTS. The hope would be that good AI is good AI, and it benefits non-combat colony interaction just as well as raids.

[mc858]

Maybe the easiest method to make killboxes more vulnerable is to give all the invaders power armor- and make them attack more persistently

i guess youre right.... what about making turrets extra strong and giving them more upgrade options BUT putting a limit on how many you can build. You would have to ressearch it up to the limit- and each turrets would have different AND permanent individual updates you could use.... i think it would work =)

I feel that this would only make killboxes more popular because it would hurt all other approaches to defense just as much.

[Aarkreinsil]

Even if you made it so enemies would path right through walls and break them down, you could just make your walls so thick, or dig yourself so deep into a mountain, that they would be funneled into some kind of killbox again.

But even without the killbox approach, if you just build a maze-like colony and use every corner as cover with some turrets scattered around, you get almost the same result. I usually go for a killbox at the entrance, and then the mazey construction in the central colony. This is mostly because I get a ton of airdrop-assaults right into the middle of my base when I don't dig myself into a mountain.

I think the best solution for killboxes would be an expansion to the siege mechanics. I know sieges are easy to dissolve with just one or two snipers, but they're so different from all the other AI approaches that they usually make my killboxes completely useless, or even outright destroy part of them from a distance.

[Kaballah]

This is mostly because I get a ton of airdrop-assaults right into the middle of my base when I don't dig myself into a mountain.

That isn't random, they drop on your beacon if you have built one "outside" your main colony area.

I think the best solution for killboxes would be an expansion to the siege mechanics.

tbh if you've constructed a killbox the game should send nothing BUT sieges but that would probably make killbox fans unhappy /shrug

[Kegereneku]

Trying to "solve" killbox is a lost battle in my opinion.

Player with too much time on their hand and predictable raiders will always find a way to exploit the game. Even if the raiders attacked from every direction and were smarter, someone will simply make more entry into sure-kill funnel.

My "solution" to killbox would be simply to make them..... NOT REQUIRED.
Seriously, for now we lack events, diplomacy, (maybe expedition ?) and raider don't try to steal stuff so killing wave end up as the most visible feature (to the point some believe Rimworld is about conquest).
But tone attack down, add more non-combat features, smarter AI and you'll be too busy building toward a goal to farm a few raiders industrially.

...unless youselected a militaristic storyteller to enjoy the fine art of fortifications.

[mcduff]

Castles, city walls, gatehouses and keeps are real-world solutions to the problem of invaders.

Siege weapons, bombs, explosives etc are real-world solutions to the problems of walled cities.

[TLHeart]

I was just arguing that for the same game (Lets say Randy extreme) it's borderline efficient to make a killbox. For example without a killbox, you will have more trouble holding down 100+ tribals. You won't hold that without killbox. The downside is that killboxes can eat up thousands of chunks of steel and the time required to repair and rebuild killboxes is immense.

The game doesn't spawn 100 at a time on extreme in my experience, I dunno what to tell you.  The game simply is not all that hard even on the highest diff settings.  I have to look for ways to make it more difficult (hello MarvinKosh).

e: plus there's a new event this alpha where enemy factions can forgive you and stop being hostile, I'm not sure whether it's totally random or if it has to do with how many enemies you've killed

releasing prisoners from that faction improves relations, release enough, and you can get all but the pirate factions to be neutral, friendly, or allies. I have lowered the pirates to a negative 40, from a negative 95

[Kegereneku]

Castles, city walls, gatehouses and keeps are real-world solutions to the problem of invaders.

Siege weapons, bombs, explosives etc are real-world solutions to the problems of walled cities.

Not attacking weak point or getting around obvious death trap aren't real-world tactic from invaderraider.
Real world defense of survivor settlement -let alone city- have never been about lining up all invaders into concrete box filled with turrets.

That's why "killbox" are a problem.

[TLHeart]

Castles, city walls, gatehouses and keeps are real-world solutions to the problem of invaders.

Siege weapons, bombs, explosives etc are real-world solutions to the problems of walled cities.

Not attacking weak point or getting around obvious death trap aren't real-world tactic from invaderraider.
Real world defense of survivor settlement -let alone city- have never been about lining up all invaders into concrete box filled with turrets.

That's why "killbox" are a problem.

real world forts, and castles, with just one entrance, where  the archers could shoot down on you, dump hot water and oil on you, yea, no kill boxes in real life.... motes, cliffs, box canyons have all been used as kill boxes since man started fighting each other.

[Rahjital]

real world forts, and castles, with just one entrance, where  the archers could shoot down on you, dump hot water and oil on you, yea, no kill boxes in real life.... motes, cliffs, box canyons have all been used as kill boxes since man started fighting each other.

Those are more equivalent to founding your colony next to rock than building a killbox. Even in medieval times, siegers have usually tried to create their own entrance if possible because the gateway was likely to be the most defended part. A killbox is more like if all the caste walls were a singe brick thick, except the area behind the gate where all the archers would be.

Kegereneku has a point. Killboxes are a problem because they are the strongest point in your defense and raiders attack them anyway.