Automated Units.

[Darker]

Dear Untrustedlife you intentionally ignored my notice about the presence of engineers. (yep, they're very good at making robots) I take it for a point for me then.


And, now, to your replies:

You need to be able to path find in real space.

It surely is easier in their 2D world, isn't it? If you wanna be realistic, be realistic.

Avoiding friendly fire. Hiding behind cover. Making tactical decisions in real time. Communicating with the colonists, to make plans.

Have you thought about the fact, that comms console also has some software protocol? And that implementing such a protocol ain't fun either?
So maybe, there may be some libraries for this. Ever heard of Open CV? That's not a sci-fi, that's reality. Set of libraries to make basic computer vision tasks super-easy.

Of course, you can deny this by another argument like "there is no internet or whatever".

But really, if you can program one thing, you can make another, it's just a matter of time. And if potatoes grow in one day, maybe an engineer will develop the system a little bit faster too.

The player isn't really "there" so to speak.

You can control the colonists with no problems. You can control blasting charges. Why not AI. And even if you couldn't - stop being so concerned about the AI development.

Your realism starts to collide with the fun aspect of the game - and it's just because you don't like robots.
All your arguments are just make-up to make your decision rational, while it isn't. (here, I'm not saying that irrational means bad or stupid. But I'd never try to make up some logic around the music I listen to.)

I can't hear you complaining about the fact, that making a radio station with range to the orbit (of maybe much much further) is not possible for a very long time.
I can't hear you complaining that you can dispatch charges by clicking at them (oh yes, here comes the player that isn't there).
I can't hear you complaining that the turrets can so easily tell between the colonist and the enemy.

So come on. Just admit it. You don't like this idea. That all you should've said, because that's the only thing that makes sense.

[Untrustedlife]

Dear Untrustedlife you intentionally ignored my notice about the presence of engineers. (yep, they're very good at making robots) I take it for a point for me then.


And, now, to your replies:

You need to be able to path find in real space.

It surely is easier in their 2D world, isn't it? If you wanna be realistic, be realistic.

Avoiding friendly fire. Hiding behind cover. Making tactical decisions in real time. Communicating with the colonists, to make plans.

Have you thought about the fact, that comms console also has some software protocol? And that implementing such a protocol ain't fun either?
So maybe, there may be some libraries for this. Ever heard of Open CV? That's not a sci-fi, that's reality. Set of libraries to make basic computer vision tasks super-easy.

Of course, you can deny this by another argument like "there is no internet or whatever".

But really, if you can program one thing, you can make another, it's just a matter of time. And if potatoes grow in one day, maybe an engineer will develop the system a little bit faster too.

The player isn't really "there" so to speak.

You can control the colonists with no problems. You can control blasting charges. Why not AI. And even if you couldn't - stop being so concerned about the AI development.

Your realism starts to collide with the fun aspect of the game - and it's just because you don't like robots.
All your arguments are just make-up to make your decision rational, while it isn't. (here, I'm not saying that irrational means bad or stupid. But I'd never try to make up some logic around the music I listen to.)

I can't hear you complaining about the fact, that making a radio station with range to the orbit (of maybe much much further) is not possible for a very long time.
I can't hear you complaining that you can dispatch charges by clicking at them (oh yes, here comes the player that isn't there).
I can't hear you complaining that the turrets can so easily tell between the colonist and the enemy.

So come on. Just admit it. You don't like this idea. That all you should've said, because that's the only thing that makes sense.

I am fine with robots if you only get them from rare traders.
I said that every single time.

You ignored my point that I made completely , i was telling the OP that you don't need to be a High tech level to build solar panels and stuff.I think building robots is out of the league of our colonists.That was what i was originally saying? How don't you get that?

also

Of course its a 2d game and pathfinding is easy in that,, easier with libraries (Yes i program , i am a programming major) , but it makes no sense that these colonists know how to make intelligent robots from scratch (in the universe of rimworld) that have "aI" which in this case means( can be controlled by the player as a soldier who isnt being remotely controlled by a colonist, and therefore has equal intelligence to the colonists, or is intelligent enough to make tactical descicians that are logical and right without the aid of a colonist) ., I'm sorry but however you try to attack my arguemnts with "its scifi robots fit" and engineers exist, engineers could also build trains, that would fit the game more actually. From a tech level perspective i don't think our colonists are at that point. Robots appear at later tech levels (it has been stated)
aliens fit in sci fi too you know, but they arent going to exist either

It just doesn't fit the tech level of our colonists, i know tynan will add them eventually he has expressed interest in machine life.

But colonists shouldn't build them they should come from traders.surely you get that?

I am enjoying this fiery discussion however.

but arguing is all about rhetoric.

maybe we can turn this into something more productive.

I will concede the fact that maybe..MAYBE after a very very long bout of research that you could theoretically build robots of higher intelligence then a auto turret. Possibly by advancing tech levels.
Perhaps, we can allow the player to advance in tech level over time.
What do you think of this?

Possibly, you would buy a robot then deconstruct it to learn how to build it?
(Well if the parts of the robot make sense to the colonists, no artificial brains connected to some strange brain reading device)
(I still don't think they would be able to comprehend the amount of programming this robot has had to go through to become so intelligent)

OP if you are reading this, please back up a page and read what I said.

[Untrustedlife]

I think robots make perfect sense. Like in FTL building a defense droid has it's uses but in no way replaces a human really. It compliments them when they are short on manpower for a specific role. Plus robots are just fun. Wether it cleans, chats, repairs, cuts grass, grows plants, hauls stuff and or fights raiders and or fires. You could use them as decoys or to draw fire. Perhaps like a shiv with suppression mounted weapon or fire suppression system. Endless options with droids and how you work them in. I'm assuming your an advanced form of terrans if your colonizing the outer rim. Either way an engineer makes perfect sense to compliment the machines.

Not necessarily a very advanced race of humans, you weren't actually colonizing, your transport vessel crashed on the planet ( check out the main page to see this) Plus we have medieval oafs with us. How did they get there anyway possibly being transported from their home-planet to be sold as slaves?

You aren't necessarily terrans either, but you are human, but no other inttelligence (besides that that is engineered by humanity) exists in this universe. These humans have most likely never even saw earth.

The lore talks of numerous tech levels in numerous levels of advancement.
Robotics is part of one of the higher tech levels (not the mid level, which your "colonists" are said to be at.)

Socieities tend to regress and progress, which is what makes the rimworld universe so awesome (since humans lack FTL travel but have still succesfully colonized the galaxy (at least some planets) via ships and cryo-pods that take hundreds or thousands of years to get to new solar systems), there are people who live in caves all the way up to people who have become part of a giant computer.

Also , why is it that we are limited to bullet weapons when we start then? if we were  so advanced that pistol would  be a lazer pistol or a lazer rifle (which you don't get until late-game).
Food for thought.

[Galileus]

To be completely sincere, traders flying around transporting food and robots sounds a bit... eeeeh...

Also, not a big fan of any higher good available from traders. Then again, not a big fan of robots either

[Cyclops]

Look, can't you people just compromise? Buy a Robot from traders, disassemble it, copy its programming and make 5 new ones out of the materials available. They don't make a new Operating system for each and every computer. Every one that has Windows 7 has the same programming. Same thing with Droids. Copy + Paste does not require comprehension, as shown by millions of essays/papers/articles/homework in general worldwide.

[Malicar]

You could have it fall from orbit as wreckage at some random point. You could have a trader in space selling it or maybe you even find one on the planet surface. Perhaps a roaming trader on the planet has blueprints to sell. Thing is in FTL the defense robot was unique and took up an eq slot if I remember. So naturally you would want it balanced to have just one and it would consume energy etc and have to recharge.

Would still be a nice addition. Robots are common in space exploration and travel. Just need that right balance yet still make it a viable option and still random so you don't always find or have one.

[Trensicourt]

Why not a SCV from starcraft where you put a person in it? An economy version of it?

Or a mule that has a timer or deficiency rate or constant recharge(like 2 batteries per mule)

[Malicar]

Why not a SCV from starcraft where you put a person in it? An economy version of it?

Or a mule that has a timer or deficiency rate or constant recharge(like 2 batteries per mule)

MULE
Great name for it. Pays homage to Danny Bunting and MULE while keeping true to the spirit of the game. Could be used to survey land among other things like remote construction of solar arrays etc. Oddly enough I can feel a bit of MULE in this game even in the pre-alpha. Not sure if that's intended but it just has that feel. Perhaps it's because it's also an rts colony building game I enjoy.

[Pakislav]

You could have it fall from orbit as wreckage at some random point. You could have a trader in space selling it or maybe you even find one on the planet surface. Perhaps a roaming trader on the planet has blueprints to sell. Thing is in FTL the defense robot was unique and took up an eq slot if I remember. So naturally you would want it balanced to have just one and it would consume energy etc and have to recharge.

Would still be a nice addition. Robots are common in space exploration and travel. Just need that right balance yet still make it a viable option and still random so you don't always find or have one.

Having it fall along with debris from the ship sounds like a great idea and a good compromise for all the opinions here.

Why not a SCV from starcraft where you put a person in it? An economy version of it?

Or a mule that has a timer or deficiency rate or constant recharge(like 2 batteries per mule)

That's an interesting idea as well! Exosceletons are more simple in design than robots, and for a space colonies with limited man power using such equipment seems to be the most logical solution to make the most of what people you have.


So I'd like this idea; Robots are a random incident that has a chance falling with the debris from your ship. You can then rescue and repair it before it explodes due to the damage, but they have a chance of being damaged and attacking your colonists. Once you have it operational your colonists need to haul it to the charging station, which will define it's operational range due to it's limited charge and dependency on the vicinity of a recharging station.
{Edit; Basically, the robots would be multi-functional "species" that act as colonists that don't need to eat or sleep, their morale is stable, but require a lot of power and maintenance. As in they break like walls, conduits and all the equipment."}

In addition to that, a simple exoskeleton item that would act as a weapon (Colonist equipped with it can't fight) will boost their physical abilities and speed at which they perform tasks.

All that combined with rarity and high cost of maintenance and I think we are getting somewhere!

@Untrustedlife
Having done same mistake before, I would advice you to argue less and just let it slide if something doesn't sit well with you.

[Trensicourt]

Please... if robots attacked colonists.... it would be unrealistic. I prefer a stupid robot that can only do things that it is programmed for.

[Untrustedlife]

You could have it fall from orbit as wreckage at some random point. You could have a trader in space selling it or maybe you even find one on the planet surface. Perhaps a roaming trader on the planet has blueprints to sell. Thing is in FTL the defense robot was unique and took up an eq slot if I remember. So naturally you would want it balanced to have just one and it would consume energy etc and have to recharge.

Would still be a nice addition. Robots are common in space exploration and travel. Just need that right balance yet still make it a viable option and still random so you don't always find or have one.

Having it fall along with debris from the ship sounds like a great idea and a good compromise for all the opinions here.

Why not a SCV from starcraft where you put a person in it? An economy version of it?

Or a mule that has a timer or deficiency rate or constant recharge(like 2 batteries per mule)

That's an interesting idea as well! Exosceletons are more simple in design than robots, and for a space colonies with limited man power using such equipment seems to be the most logical solution to make the most of what people you have.


So I'd like this idea; Robots are a random incident that has a chance falling with the debris from your ship. You can then rescue and repair it before it explodes due to the damage, but they have a chance of being damaged and attacking your colonists. Once you have it operational your colonists need to haul it to the charging station, which will define it's operational range due to it's limited charge and dependency on the vicinity of a recharging station.
{Edit; Basically, the robots would be multi-functional "species" that act as colonists that don't need to eat or sleep, their morale is stable, but require a lot of power and maintenance. As in they break like walls, conduits and all the equipment."}

In addition to that, a simple exoskeleton item that would act as a weapon (Colonist equipped with it can't fight) will boost their physical abilities and speed at which they perform tasks.

All that combined with rarity and high cost of maintenance and I think we are getting somewhere!

@Untrustedlife
Having done same mistake before, I would advice you to argue less and just let it slide if something doesn't sit well with you.

If i don't like an idea I will make it known. Everyone deserves to have there opinion noted.

I have my own opinion, as do you, I wanted to make the idea less..gamebreaking.. I made my point.
Also, the scv seems like the best option here, the reason being that I just realized that if i had an army of robots I could build, it would make the battles less tense because you are not putting colonists in danger during battle. (tension is huge part of this game, especially on cassandra classic) but if you use scvs there is a colonist at the helm.

Also they aren't as advanced as super-intelligent-sentient robots.

Rare robots (as long as they are really rare)  would work as-well.
I still prefer getting then from traders of a higher tech level, but eh.

Maybe you could get them from ruins on the planet?
That would be interesting.

[Galileus]

The sad part is, you two spent what looks like ages arguing if colonists can build robots or not from logic standpoint, which is... completely useless and irrelevant. If game mechanics behind either implementation are sound, an explanation will be presented later ^^'

No side won, because both solutions are viable, and not a single argument was presented for one being better than another. No effect or change on gameplay presented solely by one solution was pointed out. You two kept arguing what color the car you want should be, completely forgetting to discuss if it's better to buy a truck or a mini. In the end, it does not matter what is the color of the car, if it's not fitted to serve it's purpose... ain't it?

You can limit robots or balance them as you see fit with both these approaches. Most things work out exactly the same with both of them in fact. There is just one specific difference to both approaches and neither of you found it ^^' Don't take it the wrong way - it's just human to end up in situations like this - but it's quite embarrassing really

Your homework - find the difference and think how it would affect gameplay

PS. Untrustedlife - your editing habits are starting to work on my nerves ^^'

[Untrustedlife]

The sad part is, you two spent what looks like ages arguing if colonists can build robots or not from logic standpoint, which is... completely useless and irrelevant. If game mechanics behind either implementation are sound, an explanation will be presented later ^^'

No side won, because both solutions are viable, and not a single argument was presented for one being better than another. No effect or change on gameplay presented solely by one solution was pointed out. You two kept arguing what color the car you want should be, completely forgetting to discuss if it's better to buy a truck or a mini. In the end, it does not matter what is the color of the car, if it's not fitted to serve it's purpose... ain't it?

You can limit robots or balance them as you see fit with both these approaches. Most things work out exactly the same with both of them in fact. There is just one specific difference to both approaches and neither of you found it ^^' Don't take it the wrong way - it's just human to end up in situations like this - but it's quite embarrassing really

Your homework - find the difference and think how it would affect gameplay

PS. Untrustedlife - your editing habits are starting to work on my nerves ^^'

Yea, i tend to edit way too much, i'll work on that 

[Trensicourt]

The sad part is, you two spent what looks like ages arguing if colonists can build robots or not from logic standpoint, which is... completely useless and irrelevant. If game mechanics behind either implementation are sound, an explanation will be presented later ^^'

No side won, because both solutions are viable, and not a single argument was presented for one being better than another. No effect or change on gameplay presented solely by one solution was pointed out. You two kept arguing what color the car you want should be, completely forgetting to discuss if it's better to buy a truck or a mini. In the end, it does not matter what is the color of the car, if it's not fitted to serve it's purpose... ain't it?

You can limit robots or balance them as you see fit with both these approaches. Most things work out exactly the same with both of them in fact. There is just one specific difference to both approaches and neither of you found it ^^' Don't take it the wrong way - it's just human to end up in situations like this - but it's quite embarrassing really

Your homework - find the difference and think how it would affect gameplay

PS. Untrustedlife - your editing habits are starting to work on my nerves ^^'

Here is a good one reason. In order to make robots less op, they will have a deficiency level or a timer depending on the developer. Each robot requires 2 batteries with full energy to be charged. There will be a small charging station for each robot to charge in. Now, here is big question. Should robots be constructed by colonists? Answer: Yes, but not completely. Each MULE, as I prefer to call, requires an A.I. chip to be made. Each A.I. chip can only come from traders or random travelers. Right now the trade system sucks, so don't give me confusing questions how to give a better solution. The MULE will then be constructed by a colonists anywhere on the map, but it will take time to do so. Also, if built outside, it has a worse quality than being built inside.

[Galileus]

This is not a reason. This is a proposition. An idea. And not even close