[A14] Community Core Library v0.14.3.1

[code99xx]

No offence intended but thats just bollocks ... 90% if not more of the players here use mods. I would not even play his version of the game (vanilla) if it werent for the mods.

Dont get me wrong, its a good game mods or not but with mods it becomes a great game. As I see it, its in his best interest to help out in times like this

[oreganor]

Tyran has never been openly involved with the modding community.

No dev team (Doesn't matter how many ppl belong to it) should while you are still building new features into your game. Tynan has a roadmap for features he wants to see alive on his game... Each Alpha comes with new features but that doesn't mean it doesn't contain "hidden" changes on the code triggered by features he wants to "publish" a few alphas ahead...

...Now imagine you have ppl "breaking" his code adding features he haven't thought nor planed in advance... It's very nice for the users... But a damn nightmare for the Developer that has to take care (and solve) any potential interactions, and I can't even start to think in how to control performance pits so Rimworld can be enjoyed into all platforms (and hardware specs) he ALREADY SOLD the game into.

Some ppl call this "vision"... When you are a Dev yourself is simply a resource management dilemma, equivalent to just answering the question: "Do I want to have a few features completely finished and integrated into gameplay? Or... A lot of features half finished, badly integrated and weakly optimized?"

With all the above been said... CCL is "special" and it's very good news that Tynan has opened a direct channel with this mod team... Why?

Because this mod is an excellent opportunity to define (and control) which parts of the game can be easily accessible and above everything else, takes care of solving collisions between different modders attempting to alter the same sections of code... Those by themselves are reassons enough to pay close attention to this skilled team of modders. Defining a good modding interface so creative users (This forum is the best proof you need of how many of them Rimworld has been blessed with) have an easier time creating what each of them want is a key step on promoting logetivity of your tittle but...

...How and when the code of your tittle is ready for this is a strict Dev Team decission, because ONLY THEM (In this case him) have to walk all the Road till the end.

[CannibarRechter]

It would seem to me that allowing more of the core classes to be subclassed, and ensuring that those methods are subject to override, would go a good long way to making some portions of CCL not necessary, wouldn't it? Point is, there are probably changes to the way the game core approaches things that would enable portions of CCL to be retired, or at least become notably less complex. My hope is that is the sort of discussion they are having.

[Pillow Fort]

the modding community will adapt. it always has.

we dont need Ty to change his game for us.
before the communications line was set up, we needed more information on what he decided to change.
with the line, that should be a much smaller problem.

longer explaination:
when a program in C or Java is compiled, things like comments, variable names, etc are removed. your computer has no use for that fluff.
so when the CCL team decompiles it, it comes out as "obfuscated" code. which is extremely hard to understand.
its basically code that has lost all its structure.
instead of a variable called "seasonlength" or "maxstacksize" we would end up with things like "fC0" and "i2B"
remapping everything takes a ton of effort.
after the remapping, we'll now have to figure out what each piece of the remapped code does!

with the direct line to Ty, if they can get hold of the exact changes he made to the code between versions,
they would not have to try to reverse engineer the whole thing every time the game gets updated to find out what changed.
they can just update whatever code they already have (and they probably do have some, since CCL existed for a14)

[Zhentar]

The simple "for free" changes of marking particular methods as virtual wouldn't resolve any of the problems with maintaining "detours", just the technical implementation of them (and I think in most cases not even that). The challenge with the detours is that they have to re-implement the base game behaviors on top of the desired modifications. For simple cases (e.g. CompHeatPusherPowered) where it's just adding an additional check, being able to call the base method would make things more straightforward, but those are also the easiest to validate and update. For the parts that are the hardest to update, just calling the base method wouldn't work anyway; they would need hooks in the right places to allow us to make the desired overrides. At that point, it effectively becomes integrating portions of the CCL into the base game, along with the maintenance burdens they carry. In some cases, that could make sense (at least one detour is literally just a bug fix, and other cases could be supported or greatly simplified with trivial refactors) but in others it could burden future development to benefit a very small subset of mods.

[CannibarRechter]

Well, I wasn't saying that the base game could be redone so that CCL was unnecessary, but parts of the base game, if modified to support more modding, might make CCL less complex. I supposed it would be the CCL authors who would know best, though.

As for changing the base game, if it's not a huge amount of work, I can't see why it wouldn't be in scope; I think moddability is a pro-forma design goal of Rimworld, isn't it?

[mrofa]

fishbones before you go on all hardcore
No we dont read f8fuixjrgbsjwefnw, atleast not everyone, most modders just use decompilers so we dont need to know the machine language

[Zhentar]

What I mean is that since the CCL is first and foremost a tool to support more modding, there's simply not a whole lot of distance between 'modifying the base game to support more modding' and 'building parts of the CCL into the game'.

fishbones before you go on all hardcore
No we dont read f8fuixjrgbsjwefnw, atleast not everyone, most modders just use decompilers so we dont need to know the machine language

Unfortunately the decompilers (at least the free ones most of us use) puke out on a lot of the complex iterator logic Rimworld uses.

[Marrv]

I am not sure what I can do to help, but I have a lot of spare time on my hands so if the is anything that can be done to help please let me know.

Also Skully - I feel bad for how the steam workshop comment thread is going, is the a way to turn it off? Looks to be becoming a cesspool of vile comments :-(

[skullywag]

meh, its fun. I dont mind personally, takes a lot more than internet scumbags to annoy me.

[LivingNexus]

I'm not a coder but I'm really enjoying the shop talk.

[skullywag]

If people are really desperate we have a few guys who have forked CCL and are beavering away with differing levels of success, their versions may or may not work.....and to those people (if you are reading), just to say your efforts are not being ignored, I have seen them all, every PR.

[Michigo]

meh, its fun. I dont mind personally, takes a lot more than internet scumbags to annoy me.

Sooner or later everybody ends up having his own haters, but how cares?
Usually they can only hurt those that do care.

What really matters is how many "friendlies" someone earns on the www.
Haters are easy to attract, while good fans are hard to breed.

PS:
Keep up the good work with CCL, i'm more the willing to wait to see Rimworld A15 in all it's modded glory (it's worth it!).

[AtomicRavioli]

meh, its fun. I dont mind personally, takes a lot more than internet scumbags to annoy me.

Sooner or later everybody ends up having his own haters, but how cares?
Usually they can only hurt those that do care.

What really matters is how many "friendlies" someone earns on the www.
Haters are easy to attract, while good fans are hard to breed.

PS:
Keep up the good work with CCL, i'm more the willing to wait to see Rimworld A15 in all it's modded glory (it's worth it!).

Nah, they aren't haters. They are just anxious

[pktongrimworld]

Addicts...